> Dude, so he's like a super-genius, the smartest villain ever > And he's also an unbeatable wizard! > And he has his own nation, where everyone loves him, because he's so great and perfect. > In fact, he's so great, that if he rules the world, everything would be perfect and apocalypse would be prevented. > As confirmed my an omniscient god! > Oh, and he never loses! Ever! And if he does, it was just a robot pretending to be him!
What a great character. You know, the more I learn about Doom, the more I realize why Ditko had him beaten and humiliated by Squirrel Girl.
Mason Fisher
welcome to the waking world.
Parker Davis
OP is a nigger. A salty nigger. A salty baby nigger.
Jordan White
>Missing the point that he's pretty much perfect and still will never be satisfied and will forever hate himself and everyone else around him
Ryder Gutierrez
The fact that he's angsty makes things even worse.
Caleb Turner
>> In fact, he's so great, that if he rules the world, everything would be perfect and apocalypse would be prevented. >> As confirmed my an omniscient god! That part is retarded Doomwankery. The rest is just standard cape comic fare and fun.
Wyatt Stewart
>nyaaaa characters can't have troubled personalities and internal turmoil that's edgy shit for teens humans are very simple and not complex at all irl !!!1!
Nathan Howard
This is not what was said, and you know it. You can be troubled without being an angsty caricature.
Aaron Reed
>He's also Hyper-intelligent >while also being Latverian! Literally impossible for them.
Kevin Turner
It's funny how he hates everyone and is always brooding and evil, but is total bros with a few other FF villains.
William Hughes
Superior Foes had a weird amount of fun with Doom.
Matthew Phillips
Unreliable narrators allow for a lot of stuff.
Christian Rogers
I loved Doom in Superior Foes
Benjamin Davis
>Namor >Villain
Levi Gonzalez
Not too long ago I made a thread talking about this. The responses were ridiculous.
"H-how is he perfect if the world isn't his yet? Checkmate!"
or
"B-but he is never satisfied with his perfection, therefore he isn't perfect. Gotcha!"
I really would like to see Doom getting his ass whooped by Ben Grimm. First, because this is the best part of ALL FF canon, and second because Doomfags would DIE seeing such thing and with their deaths the world would be smarter on the average.
Eli Reyes
>Doomfags would DIE seeing such thing
Carter Cook
hasn't that already happened a billion times? also, Ultimate Ben literally killed Ultimate Doom with his bare hands
Jacob Butler
9/10 of this billion times ended up being retconned as "I-it was just a Doombot" though.
Leo Perez
He isn't, he literally is never shown being angsty, we are the ones who have to put that together. He's never shown moaning and being sad, he just acknowledges "well, now I have the entire world, what the fuck do I do?" Stop projecting on the character.
Eli Jenkins
>DOOM's character flaws don't count because I don't like DOOM
Jonathan Kelly
Doomfags don't give a shit, m8. The character is always interesting, doesn't matter who he jobs to. He's been jobing since the 60's. If you want to generate butthurt go after Batfags or Supefags.
Austin Martin
As I recall, Ben broke Doom's hands in a rage back in the '60s.
Jason White
I know
>this is the best part of ALL FF canon
In fact, the best part of Doom canon, too.
Jaxson Morris
Yeah, Doomwankery has made him pretty uninteresting as a character.
But Marvel kept letting people who were super duper into Doom write him, and suddenly he's a better magician than Doctor Strange and only gets beaten by his own low self esteem, which is bad because he'd totally solve all the world's problems.
James Gutierrez
How do you fix DOOM for modern comics without making him into a joke character? An impossibly vain turbo-autist villain who speaks in the third-person would be hard to take seriously without some liberties being taken.
Mason Carter
Even if Doom had to concede in the end to Reed, the Doomwank was off the charts for this. The fact he lost to the Beyonders but somehow beat them anyway was ridiculous.
Hunter James
>and suddenly he's a better magician than Doctor Strange
This obviously is the thread for people that don't read comics.
Kayden Wright
You say that like it's ironic.
Easton Lewis
Reed, why are you on Sup Forums? Are you drunk?
Nicholas Gutierrez
Or people being hyperbolic because Doomfans actually push that nonsense. (And because Strange's default mode since Bendis got to him has been "nerfed hard")
Jaxson Walker
>An impossibly vain turbo-autist villain who speaks in the third-person would be hard to take seriously No more so than a chubby egomaniac with extra robot arms, a literal nazi with a skull face, or a man who's motivation is that he's angry that his arch nemesis made him go bald.
Brandon Nelson
I'm a Doomfag, I think he's a great villain. I have ZERO issue with Ben breaking his hands or kicking his ass.
The mere fucking mention of Reed makes Doom lose his shit. I like Doom because of his attitude. I like his arrogance, and I like the fact that he's this wildly competent person who could do anything he wants but will never get what he really wants.
The only true victory Doom has ever had was in Triumph and Torment.
Isaac Harris
Same. They are talking like we are Batfags that will never accept his defeat in any way whatsoever and will argue forever about it so he comes out on top. I doubt most Doomfags even care is he's humiliated and globbered. But I also consider his victory delivering Reed's daughter.
Jason Jackson
>implying """"heroes""""" antagonizing each other constantly doesn't make them all villains
Nathan Taylor
>They are talking like we are Batfags that will never accept his defeat in any way whatsoever and will argue forever about it so he comes out on top. Literally what always happens.
And it is worse now that Doomfags are writing Doom. If he loses, or it is retconed to a Doombot or it has a twist that somehow puts him on top.
Jason Hernandez
>They are talking like we are Batfags that will never accept his defeat in any way whatsoever and will argue forever about it so he comes out on top.
I am also a Batfag. But liking a character doesn't mean I can't see that character defeated. One of my favorite characters is Daredevil, and Daredevil comics are basically just Matt living a miserable life.
>But I also consider his victory delivering Reed's daughter. True, forgot about that. And DOOM probably cares more about that than saving his mother's soul because he got to Spite Reed.
Colton Johnson
Meh, last story I read with Doom is when he is killed by Celestials. I don't care much about the current affairs of capeshit.
Blake Young
Always second best. Gets ultimate power every time, gets his ass kicked every time somehow.
Joshua Peterson
Squirrel Girl beat Doom?
Jayden Gonzalez
That was literally her first appearance
Owen Mitchell
I don't know anything about her except that she beat Thanos and was in the GLA and left
Anthony Sullivan
>Oh, and he never loses! Ever! >(but in the same post) >beaten and humiliated by Squirrel Girl. Are you LITERALLY retarded?
Asher Gomez
Why do we have this thread every fucking week, and why, when people point out that Doom loses every time, do you then pretend that it's a Doombot? Are you the Doomfag who can't accept that he loses constantly?
Evan Thomas
>> Oh, and he never loses! Ever! And if he does, it was just a robot pretending to be him! Well yeah. That's how he can perpetuate the idea that he's invincible, they went over this in Loki: Agent of Asgard. As long as people believe it's a Doombot, then it is a Doombot. Any victory against Doom then becomes "Whew, I beat the Doombot but the REAL Doom is still out there!"
Hudson Peterson
Doom is only good when he is written like Team Rocket.
Eli Ramirez
>Oh, and he never loses! Ever!
Yeah. That's really annoying.
Nathan Davis
Doom pretty much went Alluha Ackbar on them and used their own bombs against them.
Like it was kinda genius and kinda dumb.
>Build time machine and load it with multiple universe destroying bombs >Bombs explode all through time >Beyonders blow up bombs before it gets to them, but wait because time travel the bombs did actually manage to reach them >And the bombs also killed 100k+ universes
Evan Perry
I really loved silly things like this
Daniel Gutierrez
>>And the bombs also killed 100k+ universes Just like in my chinese cartoons.
Mason Collins
why would thanos use a plane
Michael Roberts
Why would Flash use a car? Why would Wonder Woman use a plane?
Christian Brooks
It's a helicopter. A helicopter that he SPECIFICALLY had "THANOS" written on the side. By him? By a third party contractor? Did he pay them? These are the mysteries we are left with.
Luke Ortiz
Read some thing with Doom in it recently where he kind of hinted that sometimes he actually does suffer humiliating defeats but everyone always assumes it must've just been a Doombot. Can't remember the book unfortunately.
Nolan Green
This
Grayson Nelson
I bet the can find a way to sneak this into the MCEU.
Jaxson Green
If I'm not mistaken there were only 12 universes left and everything was going to shit, so in the end, he did the right thing... maybe?
Levi Price
>Doom's face >EWW IT TOUCHED ME
Benjamin Kelly
That was retconned because it was retarded garbage by Loeb. Not even a Doomfag, it just contradicts everything about Ultimate Doom and deserved to be retconned.
Blake Lee
Everyone does realize that Doom was orginally written as an antagonist, right? The way so that a hero that opposes him questions his belief and comes up stronger.
The same way how original Peter Parker was written as a poor guy with continuous bad luck, struggling through life.
Today's Marvel's writers just keep tearing down the basic formula and the paradigm why the original characters were such success. Today they don't really struggle with their inner demons or with life, they're all fashion stars, wealthy and famous, run successful companies or rebuild them in a day if destroyed. Being a hero just means declaring themselves as one and then ignoring all laws, beating up someone and destroying property randomly, suffering no significant repercussions because of actions taken and feeling good about themselves for all the "good" they've done with the world.
I'm sure that all villians suffer from PTSD at this point.
Jaxson Evans
My main issue isn't that he's really good at most shit, it's that he's often also shown to be a 'good' ruler.
I like it when his narcissism means that he can run a country efficiently on paper but only by being a horrendous dictator.
Carter Rodriguez
Goofy Doom is best Doom.
Connor Wilson
Replace Doom with Thanos and you have Jim Starlin.
Jayden Morales
He was beaten and humiliated the day he was made a primary foe of the Fantastic Four.
Elijah Ortiz
Are you retarded? because there's nothing complex about it. It's just childish and probably something I would've come up at 12 >So, my character is the smartest, strongest character there is. He is a genius inventor and, get this, A MASTER MAGICIAN! He is also an an amazing dictator... oh but the people love him. >but dude, doesn't he have any flaws? >Uhm, uhh... flaws? Oh... Oh yeah! Well, he's such perfectionist that his own drive to be the best like no one ever was sometimes causes his downfall. You see, he is always right but he doubts himself a little so that is why he isn't ruling the entire world.
Lucas Collins
>where everyone loves him
He's an absolute monster. Try reading the comics.
Joseph Anderson
I never see people complain about that time Luke Cage kicked his ass.
Liam Richardson
His devoted subjects actually dance in the streets at the merest mention of his name.
Brandon Reyes
Obligatory DOOM reading list
Cooper Murphy
>Namor and Doom >bros
Joshua Peterson
Chicks dig pilots.
Jordan Cox
Shouldn't Secret Wars be on there, the 2015 one?
Ayden Cox
Doom is a fucking PUNK.
Everyone talks about how horrible a villain he is, yet every damn one of his reads, at least the ones that I've seen or been suggested to see by Sup Forums, depict him as more of a fucking antihero than an actual villain.
Joker -- Killed Jason Todd, paralyzed Barbara, killed Sarah, etc.
Magneto -- Ripped Wolverine's fucking skeleton out
Green Goblin -- Killed Gwen Stacy, all of the psychological damage to his own fucking son
Doom -- The nigga delivered Reed Richards' child.
His big "act of villainy" there was just NAMING THE GIRL. Sure, you can toss out the whole "oh well he was proving that he could do something that Richards couldn't, he could help his family when Richards could not", or the bs "Oh well he's a classy motherfucker dohoho/he's an honorable villain" crap out there, but when it comes down to it, Doom hasn't done SHIT.
That all being said, Doom crying at 9/11 wasn't any sort of break in character or anything to me. Hell, I would even go as far to say that it was entirely IN character.
Jose Hughes
Dude, everyone who knows Namor thinks the same thing, this isn't just a Doom or even Villian thing.
Caleb Perez
Doom is best comic book villain. Period.
Logan Russell
So where does the line lie? I'm pretty sure someone could call some of your favourite characters angsty caricatures. Pretty much every character with an internal conflict can be called that.
Leo Gray
Doom is not perfect, he's motivated by envy and hate. He was a real supervillain, not an antihero. Latverians hated him and he wanted to enslave all earth. Also, he was constantly beaten, ben broke his fingers in a fight once. Its modern fans and writers that pretend he's actually a hero and never wrong. Its just awful.
Nolan Garcia
Yeah, and Electro used to throw semi-solid yellow lightning bolts instead of shooting actual electricity. Any more now-irrelevant 60s comic book shit you want us to know about? There's nothing bad in changing some outdated traits of the character .
Hudson Gonzalez
what is complex then?
Matthew Cooper
by that logic, could I write a story about a villain who kills everybody and rapes all the universes, and that villain will be the best villain ever? because you seem to rate villains not by their character development and depth, but by "their bad deeds"
Bentley Flores
How is being a dictator outdated?
Luke Smith
comic books aren't that primitive of a medium these days for a villain to be a simple cliched dictator.
Connor Jackson
And Doomwankery made the medium less primitive? It is worse now if anything.
Adrian Robinson
Doom loses all the fucking time to a guy named after his ability to make his penis grow.
Austin Nguyen
60's Doom is all around a better character than modern "Can do no wrong" Doom. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.
Brody Butler
>This is not an opinion, this is a fact. Interesting opinion.
Aiden Scott
He was that way until the end of the 80s Casuals should be banned from existence Doom threads suck so much, thanks Hickman
Andrew Jackson
what would you prefer then?
James Allen
FACT. But Doomfags are well-known illiterates.
Lincoln Edwards
NO wankery would be good, huh? Who the fuck prefers wankery?
Leo Morales
Consistent characterization Continuity Character development Flawed complicated characters Not something waid, JMS, Millar, hickman, fraction or casuals understand.
Jacob Long
you're not really making any points, you just keep saying that whatever you were stating is a fact.
Grayson Robinson
I dunno, you're the one who sees a character get attention and call it wankery. why are you reading capeshit then? it's being written by dozens of different people. of course everything you listed isn't going to be present (except for the last one, I still don't see a line between flawed complicated characters and 'angsty' 'non-complicated' ones).
Tyler Lopez
A flawed a consistent character that is constantly developing like 60-80s doom is better than the perfect modern doom that changes completely with every writer and has no depth or development.
Nathan Gonzalez
>Consistent characterization >Continuity It's mainstream comic books, user. You're looking in the wrong place for those things. >Character development There's plenty of that in individual runs. For longer term stuff, see above.
Adam Collins
Until the 90s marvel had those things. Differents writers are no excuse. Continuity is the main appeal to read big two for me, is what indies doesn't have.
Brandon Morales
>that changes completely with every writer and has no depth or development. Are you saying this doesn't apply to literally every cape character?
Caleb Ortiz
>Until the 90s marvel had those things. Differents writers are no excuse >delusion
William Davis
>I dunno, you're the one who sees a character get attention and call it wankery. If even a GOD bow his knees to state how fucking perfect a character is and how he can do no wrong, then it is wankery.
Nolan Martin
but then a character still loses so it's not
Jayden Carter
Im not saying they were all great comics, but they had continuity and consistency.