So who ruined Justice League?

So who ruined Justice League?

Zack Snyder or Joss Whedon?

Warner bro's

studio obviously.
>demanding less than 2hr cut
>forcing reshoots with a bloated alcoholic, another contracted to wear a moustache, and a 'stand in' while Gal Gadot does the Wonder Woman tour

Zack would have provided a cohesive film in the universe.

Joss delivered a rampant tonal shift that stands out from the rest of the DCEU, tainting future films.

The real big bad, who like Darkseid has been absent from all this drama, is the Warner Bros CEO.

Both.

Both.

Not even seen it yet but I'm gonna go ahead and say Joss Whedon just because.

Whedon and his ((((humour))))

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Studio>Joss>Zack
Left alone Snyder would have at least delivered a tonally consistent film with a coherent continuation of character storylines. Left alone Joss could have delivered an Age of Ultron clone. Mixing the two is where things really went wrong, money-wise. That's on WB.

Neither. It was the studio. Cutting it down to 2 hours made it even worse.

Whoever was in charge of the gratuitous ass-shots

Spiderman

soyboys and lesbians

>So who ruined Justice League?

Nolan. I don't understand why no one blames him although it's apparent that it was his influence which ruined MoS and set this stupid pseudo-realistic tone. Why Snyder didn't fall back to his smooth and cool style in later films baffles me the most. Maybe because MoS wasn't that big of a failure.

Imagine we'd got more fantasy-styled slo-mo heavy BvS with adequate plot and without that scattered editing. Oh well...

More like thinking of all the money that got away

>More like thinking of all the money that got away

It's all WBs fault, they alienated the fanbase they retained from BvS by trying to make JL a Marvel movie

this

fpbp

Zack for sure, his movies were so bad that his daughter killed himself to no longer be associated with him.

>fanbase they retained from BvS
What's that? 3 trolls on Sup Forums?

Everybody knew this movie was DOA as soon as it was announced Whedon was taking over
Not even Marvel fans want him near their capeshit anymore

you're an idiot

Zach Snyder, and it's not even up for debate. BvS had an astonishingly large drop off not only opening weekend to 2nd weekend, but Friday to Saturday to Sunday.
As much as people like to meme about it here in contrarian fashion, BvS was a shit movie, and the public absolutely hated it. People didn't want to see a mopey emo superman, or a sociopathic batman branding criminals, in their first shared movie.
People go to Marvel movies because the brand has a high amount consumer confidence. BvS fucking shredded consumer confidence in not only Snyder, but anything related to BvS. Because Justice League was (correctly) seen as the sequel to BvS, and because it was directed by Snyder, the public avoided.
That is why you get a JUST(ice) League movie that couldn't even outgross Iron Man 1 from like 10 years ago, back when Iron Man was a C level superhero that the general public was completely ignorant of. An Iron Man 1 that didn't even show in 3D or IMAX to boost it's numbers.
It's fucking amazing how bad the DC EU has been completely bungled.

Autumn Snyder

state of this post.

Definitely whedon. With Zack we would have gotten a consistent film. This was just all over the place which amplifies how shit it is

>blaming the only person that did his job
that man is a saint

State of the entire DC Cinematic Universe

>People didn't want to see a sociopathic batman branding criminals

They clearly did, part of the reason it had so much hype was because of how dark and intense Batman seemed. Nobody wants the Joel Schumacker version

People didnt like it because it was a hacked up mess (great way to turn an audience off is by making the first 20 minutes a headache of jump cuts and half scenes) plus there was only 6 mins of actually fighting

As a movie its fine

>the opening sequence literally says "a film by Hack Snyder"

Studio, although Snyder & Whedon were both wrong choices.
Studios want a cinematic universe to milk for years, but they have no ideas what to do exactly.

Zack and WB. can't really blame Joss when he was just thrown there to patch it up.

Zack is a talented filmmaker when it comes to visual aesthetics, but a storyteller he is not. WB is just a mess. a big fat mess when it comes to their handling of DC.

20+ years of established commercialism, inflated budgets and advertiser, studio meddling at all costs for a return on cashing in nostalgia and popular culture in the easiest way possible.

It's been ruining cinema for decades.

There's a difference between dark gritty batman, and batman branding criminals and killing people left and right. You can't just have the super hero that everyone and their mother's know, that has had a pretty consistent code of ethics going back decades, acting like that in his first appearance.

>As a movie its fine

No, it's not. It fundamentally misunderstood the characters it was trying to portray, it was full of plot holes, it had the worst lex luthor ever portrayed, and it was way too far up it's own ass.

>Try to look up who to blame for some of the more retarded creative decisions like Batman killing people or Superman dying to a shitty CGI monsters only to be resurrected to fight a different shitty CGI monster
>David S. Goyer was a writer for MoS and BvS but was also involved in the Nolan trilogy
>Chris Terrio was involved in BvS and Justice League but also wrote the Argo screenplay
This is all Snyder's doing then isn't it?

the realistic tones at least gave the films some gravity, especially compared to marvel where everything is fun and nothing really matters

You got meme'd on if you think that Snyder on his own would make a good, coherent film. Unhinged Snyder film would mostly be just pretty pictures with heavy handed metaphors.
The obvious problem of JL and to a lesser degree BvS was a studio meddling. Blaming the directors is exactly what WB execs want us to think.

>Blaming the directors is exactly what WB execs want us to think.

That's funny, no one is blaming patty jenkins for ruining wonder woman. Maybe because she is halfway competent at her job, and delivered the only decent film in the DC CU so far.

literally everybody wanted to see that, everybody wants dark batman since the fucking nolan movies. where they fucked up was making this shit quipy like the marvel movies.

dark batman != batman killing or branding people, unless you're an edgy 13 year old.

This fucker needs to go.

...

>Americanized Nip
Inoperable cancer in human form

Kevin Tsujihara and the studio boogeyman

Watchmen has realistic tones. I'm talking about the filmmaking style, it should not had been so "down to earth" with shaky cam, flashbacks and nolan-ish transitions. It's ok for it to be dark unlike Marvel.

Of course Snyder couldn't make good film on his own, we'd already seen him try with Sucker Punch. But having a great writer and a bit of restraint would do the trick.

>ruined MoS
>ruined BvS
>heard rumours for months that Zacks cut was unwatchable

Yeah. I'm placing strong bets that this is Snyder's fault. All tho, the real fault lies at Warner Bros for allowing Snyder to direct in the first place.

>heard rumours for months that Zacks cut was unwatchable

Those are rumors for every DC movie, including WW.

WB.

...

I fucking hated BvS SS and WW. But enjoyed JL..

I would prefer to watch unaltered version of the movie, snyder version.
What the point otherwise?

Why do people pretend Snyder isn't a shitty filmmaker?

How true

Because he isn't, he's just incredibly stylistic. A Snyder film is always going to look like a Snyder film, and it's your fault if you hire him and expect anything else.

WB wanted the MCU and got somebody incredibly idiosyncratic, and expected him to toe the line. If they wanted something like the MCU, they should have hired a guy who made one popular indie film like 2 years prior, like Disney does. People like that are still pliable and will do what you say.

Disney went through the same thing with Edgar Wright during Ant Man, and they straight up fired him.

Notice the only thing you talked about was how the film looks.

Just because he has a distinct style doesn't make him a good filmmaker. His characters are action figures for him to pose while he sets up "cool" looking shots and his on the nose metaphors. He has a good eye for visuals, but he is just such a poor storyteller

300 and Watchmen were fucking great.
Visuals and story.

>Watchmen
well that was written by someone else
so just get zack a writer and he's good to go

Whedon and WB execs.

Literally translated directly from their comic books, and 300 is terrible.

I'm not going to defend Snyder as a writer, because he sucks, as does Goyer, with Sucker Punch being the greatest testament to that.

Snyder is only capable of adapting shit like 300 or Watchmen, or other dark, grim shit. WB should have realized that. It was totally their fault

You think snyder wrote superman/bvs script himself?
He isn't.

At least Snyder had a vision, even if it sucked, at least it was something. Now it's nothing.

Agreed that 300 is awful. I watched it in full for the first time recently and couldn't believe how anyone could ever have liked it.

Teenagers liked it

>JL's total domestic gross might not reach Avengers' opening weekend

Someone or a group wrote those pile of shits
Snyder should have had the ability to see these scripts weren't like the previous ones he's worked on
Dawn, 300(history) , and Watchmen were much older than the crap that was written

Do teenagers like BvS/Man of Steel?

This.

The WB for bringing in the worst possible guy to fix/finish it. Whedon is basically Snyder with less visual skill and more quips. His "strengths" only compound the problems.

No one likes BvS

>should have had the ability to see these scripts
He is director, not producer.
It is WB fault. They hired incompetent writes and unique director, but not wanted his vision.

Untrue.

No one likes BvS.

The mindset of modern reimaginations that you absolutely, positively have to do something "fresh" and "new" and then mashing up a bazillion sources instead of focusing on just one or two ruined MoS, BvS and now Justice League. If for each of these three films they had just given Snyder one or two specific comics and told him "adapt this into a film" they would have been masterpieces or at least really good. Because that is what he excels at.

Then he should have not signed the contract and instead proofread the scripts
Snyder either trusted them or should have known better given how many shitty scripts exist in hollywood

No one liked Man of Steel either.

Be honest with yourself. Teenagers don't like edgy shit, that's a 90s thing.

Teenagers nowadays watch Disney movies, including Marvel.

Not true.

MoS and BvS are good.

haha

BvS is terrible.

We are talking teenagers here you idiot.

No one liked those movies and that's fact. Otherwise you would have a successful franchise instead of this crippling franchise on literal suicide watch.

reddit's here early today i see

>Whedon saved JL

>Sup Forums unironically defending Joss fucking Whedon

This place has turned into soy boy general

Joss Snyder and Zack Whedon

Should have just used the CW casting for Flash instead of that unfunny, tryhard turbofaggot.

but he's a jew

>or a sociopathic batman branding criminals
Oh fuck I think my mind suppressed that shit, thanks for reminding me.

You can make a point without name calling or slights against someone’s intelligence. No need to get anger over a capekino discussion.


Teenager are more or less vile until they get a some knowledge and appreciation for morality.

BvS sucks, but i liked JL

Edgy teens and neckbeards who want to be seen as mature like it.

I found BvS to just be a boring mess with an exceedingly convoluted story and an insultingly dumb conclusion

marvel fanbois

Well Snyder is shit, hates comics, and has ruined every single cape movie he's had his hands on so far. So it can be reasonably assumed that he ruined Justice League as well.

What the fat Louis Cuck King clone did is ultimately irrelevant because it would have been shit with our without him, but I can nevertheless imagine that he tried to sabotage it.

>two shitty directors make a shitty movie

who would have ever guessed it?

Zack's daughter

Whedon obviously

His shit stuck out like a sore thumb. His writing even admits that he cant compete with snyder. In his first bruce and alfred scene, it ends with "I don't recognize this world" to which bruce replies "we dont have to recognize it, we just have to save it"

Even my buddy who couldnt give a fuck less was laughing at the atrocious Whedon scenes.

The Snydercut was probably amazing, and WB betrayed him once again.

> Buffy
> Angel
> Firefly
> Avengers
> one of the best X-men comics series

vs pretentious hack who ruined everything he touched, from dawn of the dead to classic comics like watchmen
The first Avengers made as much as Man of Steel and BvS combined.

>Hey kid, c'mere a minute
>I just watched your movie, this 3 hour run time isn't working for me
>I'll be needing you to cut it down to 2 hours

How do you react Sup Forums?