Why are the earlier seasons of Adventure Time held in such high regard?
I'm rewatching the series again and one of the things that bothers me is how stupid and naive Finn and Jake both are.
Aggressively stupid and naive.
Finn's utter devotion to PB is really annoying as well.
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That said I really enjoy how blatantly dark or sexual the humor can get.
The show really didn't give a damn about conventional storytelling.
Part of why I fell in love with the show in the first place.
Yeah even with the dips in storytelling I really like how Finn's grown throughout the series.
This and the Mystery Train ending will always be my favourites.
People who have eaten human report that we taste similar to pork.
>t. definitely not a cannibal
Then they should just eat pork.
Would you believe I just finished watching this.
It was the first thing I thought of when you said 'blatantly dark', so it makes sense.
Yeah they use the word "kill" so much, that it's almost as if they're making up for all the times cartoons were forced to use the word destroy.
Cause Finn is literally a preteen to teenager during these seasons - Have you ever watched a 12 year old try to comprehend common sense? Finn is now 17-18 years old, and as such has more wisdom and growth. He should be even older, but they fucked the age up for some reason.
Finn being aggressively naive and stupid is part of his charm.
Though to be frank I'm glad he grew up. Was kinda wearing on me too.
They're still kinda stupid tho.
ex: Jermaine.
It was a simpler time. It was just a fun how that had decent writing, imaginative plots and cool little hints at lore. They got away with simplicity cause the show wasn't anything more.
Then they started reusing stuff they had introduced, which was cool at first as it played up the idea there was more to AT. Then it started doing stuff with the romance angle which shippers liked. It felt like these elements they built up were actually going to be something.
But then we get to the point of status quo. That is fine when you are a dumb little cartoon with hints of lore, but not when you have crossed a line and tried to be more. Seeing some development to a character and then having to wait 50 episodes for them to go oh yeah that thing is unimportant sucks.
I didn't help there was a bit of a drop in writing quality. You see a lot of characters get the same I am weird but have everyday problem/reaction to issues backstory isn't that quirky! Then you have episodes that felt like real fuck yous, Red Throne and Breezy obviously standing out.
>You see a lot of characters get the same I am weird but have everyday problem/reaction to issues backstory isn't that quirky!
I don't really understand what you mean here. Could you explain?
Most characters in AT are weird in nature, yet they add a mundane aspect usually in an episode focusing on them. It stops having an effect once it has happened a few times.
Hmm, I never noticed it. Maybe I will now though.
Yeah the adherence to status quo and the lack of clarity when it came to episodes like Breezy or the Comet really took it out of the fandom.
Still, I enjoyed all the eps they had in the interim. Now even moreso that the staff finally discovered their flow towards the end.
There's also the aspects of the show that were not held down by status quo, such as the Ice King and the Lich.
Any other show and they would have stayed permanent threats.
Yeah but they're mundane in a world of weird, which makes them still weird and enjoyable.
Prismo being a somewhat awkward, yet cool guy with relationship issues despite being essentially a god is part of his charm.
>such as the Ice King
He is one of the worst examples. Development up till we get all the Simon stuff is great, I loved seeing him become one of their friends. But for what feels like ages now we are at the point of okay he needs to be healed or properly looked after and it has just stalled.
I do agree that AT has improved though they did have a real slump and you are often better just skipping a lot of the episodes. What really makes or breaks those episodes is how well they end it all, same way FP episodes are awkward now.
>Yeah but they're mundane in a world of weird,
That no longer works when you make them all have mundane stuff. Never mind the joke just getting a bit old, if you make it all weird but then make it actually mundane everything ends up just feeling mundane. Not helped by just knowing so many areas of OOO it's weirdness is less surprising, I think that is partly what made Islands feel so fresh.
really enjoyed up to season 5, stopped watching after that
just a few bad episodes really threw me off
Push on, it's worth it.
I'm not gonna argue with you cuz I just think we have different perspectives.
Though I will say from what you've said I think the disappointment with the comes from people seeing a hint of plot, and wanting more of that, when that's never really been what the show's about. That's the crew's fault I suppose.
Also BunBun and the Music Hole were good eps, and FP was in both of them.
also to comment on your reply to the other guy, I'd like to see examples of characters made less enjoyable by mundane elements. Cuz I still like all of them.
there is a reason why humans are called "long pig"
The meat is a bit gamey though, then again it all depends on the section you eat. Doesn't satiate hunger that well in fact makes you hungry for more, but is definatly tasty. Is at the next to bottom of my list of survival food, only above non mineral rocks and feces.
How I know this: I've traveled the world a bit, and met interesting folk along the way from places that are strange and almost alien to the live we know. It is only customary to eat their food they present.
Because they're not "muh deepest lore and character development!".
The very idea that adventure time should have given any serious thought to either romance, deep backstory, or "character development" (story boarder fanfiction) is what made this show go from fun and likeable to boring and annoying unwatchable shit.
It's a cartoon about a stupid boy in mutant land doing outlandish things for fun and comedy. Romance should have never been in the equation, and story development should have stayed in the background where it was actually kind of intriguing.
But no. Queers, shipfags, and fanfiction drama retards really thought this show would only be good if it went down the shit path it has.
There's a reason viewership dropped. There's a reason it's getting cancelled. There's a reason almost no one cuz plains about earlier episodes while later episodes are often decried as shit.
Ward should have never handed control of the show over to obnoxious retards who decided to move the show in the direction of their own personal fanfiction.
>deep backstory
The show has barely focused on that at all, outside of Simon and Marcy, Stakes and Islands (which were all great), so I'm not sure what you're even complaining about.
>romance
The FP breakup stuff sucked, but it was like what, 4 episodes? The show barely has romance in it, and hasn't focused on it at all outside Flute Spell over the past couple of years.
>story development
This is what most people complain about. There basically is no ongoing plot in AT.
I honestly think the show is currently better than its ever been, and that it never went bad, at least completely. I firmly believe that people's opinion towards AT is almost wholly subjective. Just because you (among others) don't like the tonal shift that has occurred, does not make it objectively bad by any means.
the problem is most people remember those episodes as taking up more space than they actually did.
I while back I was shocked to learn that FB got 2 episodes of development before Finn started dating her. Everything else was standard AT.
It used to be about adventure, then it became dumb drama and shipping, now it's dumb drama and cucking Finn.
get out of here hothead
You are trying to ignore that those episodes were important by downplaying everything.
Yes those episodes have always been the minority. But when you have FP and Finn do stuff vs TT farts on a flower one is going to stick out more. And sometimes those random episodes would also give us a hint at something more. Once you have engaged people with some real story they want more and expect a resolution in good time and properly developed. You can't stop that train once it has been started.
It also means when development is done bad it sticks out, and when that is surrounded by normal episodes especially if they aren't that great it cements how bad that story one was cause it is what people will think and talk about.
>people's opinion towards AT is almost wholly subjective
>opinion
>subjective
no shit
>Incendium
>Hot to the Touch
>Burning Low
>Vault of Bones
>Frost and Fire
>Earth and Water
>Red Throne
>Bun Bun
Exactly. Those are all the episodes that focus on FP/Finn.
>You are trying to ignore that those episodes were important by downplaying everything.
I never really cared about Flame Princess, so it didn't bother me that much. In fact, I thought her entire character was a mistake. You're the one criticising the show for having romance, so why do you care to begin with?
>people's opinion towards AT is almost wholly subjective
I say this because people talk about AT as being shit, when really it's just shit for them. I know this goes without saying, but it's a important distinction. Like, let's say I don't enjoy romance novels. That doesn't make them bad, they just don't appeal to me, if that makes any sense.
>I never really cared
That is irrelevant to the point I was making. You can not care about those elements, that doesn't stop them being big important moments that have had an impact on the show. FP an Finn's romance and end of has had a distinct effect on the show felt for multiple seasons, more than the random episodes.
>You're the one criticising the show for having romance, so why do you care to begin with?
First I'm not the guy you are replying to. Second cause I liked what they were doing original then it turned to shit. Thus the element now gets shit on and many say they wish the show had not gone down this route.
>I say this because people talk about AT as being shit, when really it's just shit for them
Stop being a turbo autist or a dishonest prick. Everyone knows people are saying their opinion, no one has to start every post with "well in my opinion" cause that would get annoying. You aren't even discussing any points now just around the points.
>FP an Finn's romance and end of has had a distinct effect on the show felt for multiple seasons
Not really? Seriously, go back and watch it. Obviously there is season 5 stuff like Love Games and Dungeon Train (which was great), that directly deal with Finn getting over Flame Princess, but that's about it. The show does not focus on it that much. It's overblown as shit.
>Everyone knows people are saying their opinion, no one has to start every post with "well in my opinion" cause that would get annoying.
I agree with that sentiment completely, which is why I said it went without saying. But this is not how people talk about AT and you know it.
>Not really?
>Obviously there is
Well shot yourself in the foot straight away there. Never mind it effects where certain characters are like how FP has grown up and is in charge of the fire kingdom, or how Cinnamon Bun's character moved and had a huge change in personality which is enough to justify what I said. It directly affected who Finn is as a person, it is often brought up even just in passing about how he gets depressed about stuff. And even just the depression alone is a huge change from happy go lucky early Finn, which is all linked in with the romance.
Your argument is boiling down to if something isn't repeated every episode then it is not important and did not have long lasting effects, that would be bullshit even in a more narrative focused show. Really an event wouldn't have to be brought up constantly for it to have importance, but AT does both.
>But this is not how people talk about AT and you know it.
Yes it is and you are making a distinction where one doesn't exist. Calling AT shit is apparently a 100% truth claim but saying Gumball is shit is apparently just an opinion man.
Alright, I'm going to sleep now, so I'll make this quick.
>Never mind it effects where certain characters are like how FP has grown up and is in charge of the fire kingdom, or how Cinnamon Bun's character moved and had a huge change in personality which is enough to justify what I said. It directly affected who Finn is as a person, it is often brought up even just in passing about how he gets depressed about stuff. And even just the depression alone is a huge change from happy go lucky early Finn, which is all linked in with the romance.
>Your argument is boiling down to if something isn't repeated every episode then it is not important and did not have long lasting effects, that would be bullshit even in a more narrative focused show. Really an event wouldn't have to be brought up constantly for it to have importance, but AT does both.
I agree with mostly everything you just said. But I'm talking about the romance aspect here, like we were originally discussing. But on the topic, even depressed Finn didn't last that long, and was tied heavily into other factors like his Dad, not Flame Princess specifically.
>Calling AT shit is apparently a 100% truth claim but saying Gumball is shit is apparently just an opinion man.
No. People imply or often outright say that there is something objectively bad with Adventure Time. I am making a necessary distinction.
Anyway I'm off to sleep, so bye.
Romance was unnecessary
Bubbline is trash
Finn should be taller by now
Cinnamon Bun was what were they thinking levels of stupid
>But I'm talking about the romance aspect here
The romance is why it happened, the feelings Finn had the caused a change in him is because of romance and some lasting love for FP. Even something simple like how FP and Finn interact especially in bun bun is because of their romance. You are just being slippery here and trying to separate the time they were in a direct relationship with teh effect it has had.
> even depressed Finn didn't last that long
It has been constantly brought up, and he has had slumps
> tied heavily into other factors like his Dad
Showing how it ties into many elements, really haven't helped your whole case
>like we were originally discussing
No your original point was all the story elements was no big deal and I pointed out how that is bullshit.
>often outright say that there is something objectively bad with Adventure Time
Have you never heard of hyperbole? And no you did not make a distinction you claimed one. At this point you are just saying people think they are right and that is wrong
Uh huh.
>eating human flesh only makes you hunger for more human flesh
Good to know.
dude everyone knows about how human meat tastes that interview that one guy did with a convicted cannibal is common knowledge.
After years of waiting adventure time is great. also there is finally AT threads on co again. it's not even my birthday yet
The characters personalities changed in the newer episodes.
>There's a reason viewership dropped.
That has more to do with CN than the show itself. If you haven't noticed everything on that channel had dropped significantly in the ratings from years back.
>Its getting cancelled
Its ending after 9 seasons.
>Why are the earlier seasons of Adventure Time held in such high regard?
Less drama?
>Finn's utter devotion to PB is really annoying as well
People like to overlook the whole PB disaster for some reason.
>Its ending after 9 seasons
It's still being cancelled.
It's discussed in an interview with the AT crew that the reason for both the show's cancellation and why it got schedule-fucked, is a combination of the show not being as popular as it once was and CN Execs not knowing how to market a show with older viewers.
They saw that TTG was making dosh, so rather than figuring things out, they shoved AT in a corner and wished for the best.
CN being dumb as rocks as usual.
It was also less sad and more cute at the time. It's only later when PB started using him even more and treating him even worse that the people really started hating that sick situation.
I think them being stupid was charming. Even though they were dumb (and let's be honest they're still dumb) Jake was much more of a wiser older brother figure early on and being a bit of an idiot didn't stop Finn and Jake from being competent, effective heroes.
And geez, if you think Finn's loyalty to Bubblegum is annoying there it's 10x worse now. Early Finn was a kid who had a crush on her that took a while for him to internalize and she seemed nice and even a little receptive to his advances, while modern Bubblegum has been explicitly confirmed to be a terrible person who is in no way available for romance and even seems annoyed by Finn half the time but he's just as loyal to her as when he was a stupid 12 year old. It's a way more sad, pathetic relationship for Finn and this point.
But early seasons were tops man, at least I really enjoyed em. Much better humor and sense of energy than the modern show (which I also love).
EH, nowadays he seems to treat it as a job.
Remember when they discovered the James clones?
S1 Finn would have ratted them out immediately.
But instead he made some humor for himself at PB's expense.
>Finn should be taller by now
>be Finn
>be 16
>looks the same as when he was 12
He obviously still has bias for Bubblegum, if it was just a job to him then I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be at the Candy Kingdom 80% of the time. There's other places in Ooo that need heroes, or dungeons and stuff to loot, but he always ends up at CK. Sure you could say it's a distance issue but that's dumb, Jake can stretch himself across miles in two seconds/
I gotta believe that Finn is still doing it because of PB, he probably doesn't think there's a chance that she's suddenly gonna declare her love for him out of the blue but he hangs around just in case anyway. Boy can't let go.
I just go ahead and believe he gained like 5 or 6 inches since the show started but the show just doesn't bother showing it.
It's like Steven Universe where all the character heights change wildly from episode to episode or something. Helps me enjoy the show more.
He does go elsewhere though. If you want I can point out the episodes in which he adventure elsewhere.
Thing is that he's pledged his allegiance to the candy kingdom. It's mentioned explicitly right after PB lost her position to KOO.
Even when he knew Koo was a huge donk, he still served him directly. (Remember the shower scene)
Dude's dedicated.
I remember thinking that was dumb how he and Jake were still serving the KoO (like I can understand them watching over the CK in case a monster attacked but I see no reason they have to satisfy KoO's inane requests like get a giant mushroom or collect the city's gold), so can you quote when they said that?
The show always portrayed it like Finn and Jake have an official relationship with the candy kingdom but to my knowledge they've never actually said anything like that, the show always just had it be that Finn and Jake help the candy kingdom out when they need it. Always made them seem like freelancers and not official knights or anything.
oh wait, I'm watching the episode again and PB asks them to watch over the kingdom for her.
Eh, so it could go either way.
The ep is Hot-Diggedy-Doom btw.
In any case they're probably there all the time because it's the crew just liked using its city environment.
I remember a lot of eps where F&J are there, but they're just at the tavern or something.
CN Australia posted the Adventure Time Live Q&A on their Facebook page.
Flinn is deader than dead
and nothing of value was lost
stuff was cute for like 3 episodes 4 years ago, would be a boring retread for them to get together again
Flinn?
Finn and Flame Princess
fire bitch and bear boy
Hmm, well I'm not going to deny that I was on that train for a while, but I saw little chance of it panning out.
Better to move forward anyway.
When AT came out it was very different from what was airing at the time. It had a level of weirdness and whimsy that was just right, and the "deep" moments worked because they were themselves a little bizarre so you didn't take them completely seriously. Characterization didn't seem that important.
As a survival guide I own says "everything the human body needs is in other humans".
>make Jake a dad, before marrying
>Doesn't know what to do with that setting, which end up Jake being irresponsible dad/husband and too embarrassing to mention rainicorn in story anymore.
>try making a canon girlfriend to finn
>Doesn't know what to do with this character. End it with a wet dream and turn FP to a boring character
They didn't think twice before doing a big decision on the story
There is one thing people don't usually discuss .. the background design. I feel that After they changed the background designer. The background got less interesting. In the early seasons, you can always find some extra information from the background. there are lots of things make you wonder, and force you to rewatch the episode again
ONLY BUBBLEGUM
S3 Finn is worst Finn.
>Flinn is deader than dead
Cinnamon Bun did its job well.
>They didn't think twice before doing a big decision on the story
Every time something actually happens, it goes back to how things were a few episodes later. It never misses.
got some examples?
Did they keep doing the snail cameos?
I haven't consciously noticed this but I bet it's true, Ghostshrimp left after like season 4 right? He was great at what he did.
I don't think the backgrounds suffered too much since if they went right to shit I feel I would have recognized that, but I for sure feel they're of lower quality.
Though Ghost came back for Stakes and I'm pretty sure he did/is doing the backgrounds for seasons 7 and 8.
>Ice King is legitimately friends with F&J
>Lich is still a giant baby
>Normal Man is still normal, and Betty mad with wizard biz
>Grass sword is gone, along with the Finn sword
>The Grass sword is its own person now
>Finn's got a robot arm now for realz
>Finn's learned from his mistakes from past relationships
>Jake has episodes entirely dedicated to him bonding with his kids, which allows us to see a different side of him
>PB is learning to be less controlling of her citizens
Sure the Comet & Orgalorg were made out to be this big thing, which fizzled out like a soggy firecracker, but the show has always been changing.
>pic
don't do this it makes weaponized leprosy
Can't say I agree. But I'll change my mind provided some examples.
forgot pic
Fuck them.
Does anyone else get a bit of gibberish mouth after watching this show for a while?
I found after I marathoned it a while back, I started working nonsense words into my vocabulary.
Saying things like "that's really glop plops" or "I'm feeling pretty dodunky today".
>Jake has episodes entirely dedicated to him bonding with his kids, which allows us to see a different side of him
and I love all of them.
nah, but I think that's mostly because I find the slang annoying like 60% of the time
AT dialogue walks a very fine line between being charming and annoying and in the later seasons I feel like they lean more toward the later
But even TTG doesn't get high ratings anymore. 3 years ago a premiere would average 2 million and now it's always trending in the low 1 millons
like I said, CN execs are dumb as rocks
Do people actually still watch the show? that thing jumped the shark hard in the S6 finale.
I take it you don't come to Sup Forums on the regular
Seriously, fuck them for doing this shit.
Cinnamon Bun is a worthless piece of shit that should have died already. That they bury Flinn like that is disgusting.
it's not like he's been a big deal after Red Throne or anything, they just killed the couple because they don't like Flame Princess
To be fair, Finn was the one who blew it way before Cinnamon Bun came into the picture to rub some salt.
Just to make sure, does anyone around actually like Cinnamon Bun or at least is okay with the guy since the whole blueballing incident?
I do, I just stay within certain show discussions
I thought it was cuz Sugar left and she didn't leave behind plans for FP?
I like Cinnabun
Could be both, maybe they didn't like FP because they didn't know what to do with her, but I think them just not liking the character is mostly what happened. Remember how little episodes she appeared in after the break up and Red Throne, had like 1 focused on her in the entirety of season 6.
They didn't know what to do with FP after Sugar left, and they still don't know what to do with her after she became a ruler.
>they just killed the couple because they don't like Flame Princess
How does any of this work exactly? Why would they put her into a relationship with Finn only to get rid of her a few episodes later because they don't like her?
From where I stand they simply used her to get Finn out of the PB freaky frenzy and later on, out of the whole raging puberty period.
To me CB has a;ways been boring besides a few parts in the early seasons where he was funny, like that part in The Other Tarts.
The thing with him getting baked certainly didn't help, and I bet they thought they were so damn clever for remembering PB calling CB half baked. It's pretty shitty that they made him super competent only to kick Finn when he was already down.
And didn't CB go back to being stupid in The Cooler? Is he still stupid? I guess he was kind of smart in Bun Bun but that could still be in the range of normal CB actions I think, if he is stupid than that's even lazier on their part.
Marceline's VA is a fucking QT314
>Why would they put her into a relationship with Finn only to get rid of her a few episodes later because they don't like her?
Because Sugar created the character, was responsible for all the episodes with FP until she left, and then the rest of the show was stuck with the character. I don't think they liked FP too much based on how they treated her. Dumping every FP episode on Xayaphone and not one of the better board teams makes me think this too.
Using FP to get Finn off of PB's track was originally the plan by Sugar I think but that doesn't seem to have worked at all because Finn still hangs out with Bubblegum all the time and never with FP, and he was still even going after Bubblegum relatively recently in Too Old.
>Season 8
I dropped it halfway trough 4. Did I miss anything good?
Flame King becoming ruler of the chipmunk kingdom was much better than whatever they came up with FP. Same with bunbun being a much better character than CB.
For sure, but I'm not sure you would consider it worth the effort of digging through the bad/mediocre if you lost interest in 4.