ITT: Films where the good guy lost

ITT: Films where the good guy lost.

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>reading greek mythology with anglo morality

Gods are the good guys. Always. Even when they're assholes.

they left out the cool bits like hera getting her shit shoved in by zeus

That was a weird movie, because there were a lot of "good guys" and they all attacked each other. Paris, Achilles, and even the guys that hung around Achilles weren't bad people. You could even say Menelaus wasn't a bad guy. He had actual cause to hate Paris.

Troy deserved to fall

achilles was not a good guy


he was just a killer out for glory

In the Odyssey movie they made in the 90s Hector was portrayed as an asshole who goaded Achilles into fighting and killing him.

childhood is siding with Hector, adulthood is realizing Achilles made more sense

>That was a weird movie, because there were a lot of "good guys" and they all attacked each other.
Isn't that what makes the story of The Iliad so great? You've got heroes on both sides just doing what they think is right, while the gods just use them as playthings.

Hector was defending his brother and his city. Achilles just liked to kill and got angry when he realized that other people could also kill.

He wasn't a bad guy either. He was loved by the gods. He was brought down to earth by a woman he fell in love with and wanted to save her from the battle.

I guess that's why they call them greek tragedies, though.

mysadsadfacewhen they did not show handsome hector and handsome paris doing ... stuff.

When you grow up you learn that there's no honor in supporting underdogs, join the winning team and get ahead.

>When you grow up you learn that there's no honor in supporting underdogs, join the winning team and get ahead.

>Achilles just liked to kill
Maybe in the actual story, but in the movie it was implied that he didn't necessarily like it, just that he was really good at it, and also dug the fame and glory, as well as the adoration of the soldiers he fought with.

Hector was in the wrong to support his coward of a brother who was also an adulterer. Achilles was justifiably mad because Hector killed his cousin and lover. Also, if you can't understand the desire to be remembered forever, then you're a bugman

You never turn your back on family, even if they are retarded. Hector would have been made to look like an even bigger shit by giving up his brother to certain death.

>" Can you be the man who carried off a beautiful woman from a distant land and warlike family, to be a curse to your father, to the city, and to the whole people? Are you too cowardly to stand up to the brave man whom you wronged? You will soon find out the kind of fighter he is whose lovely wife you stole."

This is a good indication of why Hector rocks. He knows his own brother is in the wrong here, and he's making an effort to put things right in an honorable and just manner. Sure, he's spent nine years killing Greeks on her behalf, but he really doesn't even give a fuck about Helen. He just wants to keep the invaders from burning his city to the ground. He does what any chivalrous cavalier worth his armor would do and protects his people.

he should have convinced his brother to just let her in her on a boat in the direction of agamenon's armada. The entire war could have been prevented if he didn't go "muh dick"

...

>blocks your trade

Uh, you're aware that some Gods supported the Greeks and some supported the Trojans right?

inb4 Der Untergang

World War 2.

such a pure dogshit poster

no really what a shit choice of a poster

trojans are ionian greeks themselves

It doesn't even make sense. It shows Balian fighting *outside* the walls of Jerusalem, which he never did in the movie.

>Athena and Hera talking trash under their breath hoping Zeus doesn't notice
>Zeus threatening to fuck up all of Olympus single-handedly if they conspire against him
>Laughs at Aphrodite because she lost a fight to a mortal, saying to leave the fighting to Athena and Ares, even though it was Athena who actually beat her in the first place

Is there anyone more alpha than Zeus

>my netflix deleted Troy
Oy vey

>ywn be adored by your brothers in arms, living and dying together for your king and country in service to a cause greater than yourself

Why even live?

>"Daughter of Zeus, can you and I look on, without a final effort, while the Achaeans perish? For that they will, and miserably too, mowed down by a single man. See what he has done to them already. Hector son of Priam rages with intolerable fury and there is no stopping him in his mad career."

- Hera, Queen of the Gods


Based Hector

technically speaking he had several fights outside jerusalem

>zeus wimps out too scared to decide among goddesses makes mortal decide instead

that's not being alpha, you beta maggot

Well, yeah, but the background of this cover is very clearly the siege of Jerusalem.

Achilles did not fight for his king or his brothers in arms, in fact few Greeks probably saw it that way. They are more like ancient vikings in that they value pride, heroic acts and loot.

This was seen as the natural state of the world, men were fighters and going to war is presented like a big raid where you take your best armour and weapons, horses and chariots, soldiers and ships, to go show off, do shit that people will remember you for and add more loot to your collection.

The Trojans were Greeks

Yeah, but only the shitty Greek Gods like Ares

youtube.com/watch?v=GR8-lE8E4Tc

Gangs of New York

Also
>the Trojans
>good guys
Really?

>beta sperg is abandoned by the Uber-Stacy of Antiquity because he cant satisfy her in bed even though tinder and social media dont exist and hes a literal prince, meaning he married in the easiest circumstances, and is somehow STILL too beta to keep Stacy in line
>Troy should be burned to the ground because of this

...

the worst part of this all is that Helen eventually returned went back to Sparta and lived a happy peaceful marital life with Menelaus post-war.

Fucking Troy was burned to the ground, all the men executed and the children and women sold as slaves, and the roastie behind it all lived on as if nothing happened

>tfw you don't get Achilles's armour despite being his battle bro

Prometheus

zeus wants to save the trojans but he's too much of a bitch to go against the fates

Not an argument

That shit was so brutal. Any other movies where the good guy gets absolutely destroyed?

Have you not read through the thread?

>gives us fire
>teaches us to trick the Gods with our sacrifices
>even created us, according to some
Prometheus is fucking brotier as fuck.
Why weren't there any Cults of Prometheus?

It's not a matter of good or bad guys

Hector and Achilles are the two alpha male archetypes.

The Civilized Noble Chad vs the Rogue Chad

But, one son of Ilium did live and he went on to found the greatest empire the Earth had ever seen AND through that empire revenged Troy upon the dastardly Hellenes

No country for old men, classic example

>t. either a beta male or a toastie roastie

>implying glory isn't the highest Val e

Aristeia is the greatest good a man can do. It is divine

study

>ywn be so mad that you want to fight a river

If this movie was made today, would they have Achilles give Patroclus the dick?

Only if it were made by a kinoseur

>implying they weren't already fucking

They would also cast some huge black man as Achilles and a blond twink as Patroclus

indeed, but in classical greece the Kill/Death ratio was the biggest mark of heroism. Check out Heracles's exploits when you get a chance, for example. I'm implying that the original story might have been interpreted differently in ancient times

...

I thought the moral of the story was "women ruin everything"?

"Fucking" is such a crude word and it also implies mutual action.
Patroclus was likely Achilles' Eromenos.
That's like a squire or apprentice that among his other duties will allow you to thrust your cock between his hairless thighs. But that doesn't mean that the younger man is a fucktoy or something. There is love between the two.
There is no direct translation for the relationship that older Achilles and younger Patroclus had.

The moral of the story is that the Gods ruined everything.
It was the Gods that made Helen and Paris run off with each other.
It was the Gods that made Troy open her gates to the Greek Stallion.

Justice League.

Fuck, you're shit mate, total shit.

Achilles represents an existential position - the excellence of man, rebellion against one's gods. The whole reason he exists at all is because Thetis' son was prophesied to be greater than his father - ie Zeus didn't want to get the Cronos castration treatment and so married off Thetis to a mortal.

Achilles is the ultimate expression of the individual will. He's not 'Rogue Chad' nor is that even a fucking archetype - all you've done is combine the word 'Chad' with your shitty estimate of their fucking D&D alignment.

Hector is also a lot more of an asshole and a lot less concerned with duty in the Iliad than people think.

They literally did in Homer's Iliad.

>believing a 2000 year old Roman lie

Achilles is even deeper than that. He was told a prophecy that he can either have a glorious short life or a long but uneventful one.
He chose the glory. He went to Troy knowing that he would die and that he would die being remembered for all time.

...

Mate you wouldn't even stand up for yourself in a fucking bar fight, I reckon. The closest you will get in your life to an Aristeia is having the glory of blowing the most dudes at a truckstop before some cop rustles you and hauls you off back home to your wife.

The Aeneid is fanfiction

tfw you find out Jerusalem was a real place

And they would come up with some transparently bullshit excuse to say that their cuck meming was more accurate instead of it being an active attempt at cultural erosion.

This is Soviet Aristeia

You literal nigger. Achilles was the boy, Patroclus was the man. Achilles was actually one of the youngest fighters in the war.

>deeper than that
Yeah that's so deep that its not actually deep and is totally fucking obvious. It was even spelled out that way in the fucking movie. Being immortal 'by name' is literally the meme tier understanding of Achilles as a character, and totally misses the complex conceptual architecture of ancient greek masculinity, which revolved around Timos, Aristeia and the Agon. Educate yourself.

Gods don't exist.

So arguing about them is pointless

Gods exist.

So arguing about them is blasphemous.

Go to bed Hepheastus.

The Gods DO exist
So making yourself beautiful to them is important

...

The fact they never did a sequel with Sean Bean reprising his role as Odysseus?

The Athenians supposedly had one.

Because it bombed

Who was the good guy?

it did?

why?

Ares didn't support either side, he fought everyone

In the original story Menelaus gets Helen back so it's all good

People have gotten dumber and only want to see shit like Guardians of the Galaxy or Jurassic World.

The world is burning.

People complain about the lack of gods in Troy all the time but I think they made a smart decision in leaving them out. The core of the Iliad isn't the gods bickering and while they do have some cool moments, the focus of the story should be about the humans. The script had a lot of problems but gutting the gods out and focusing on the human drama was not one of them.

>The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.
Fuck off brainlet.

>liberal cuckold calling someone else a brainlet

No more black dick for you Mr. Al Franken.

I'd like to see a version of the Illiad with the Gods in front and centre stage. They're there. They have motives.

An adaptation of Dan Simmon's Illium could work

One day when I was a young boy on holiday I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs.

A very endearing sight, I’m sure you will agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy.

One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children.

And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain.

If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.

If you liked Hector's character read the farewell at the doors passage.

users.clas.ufl.edu/karelisa/CLTDiscussionGL/CLT 3370 Part III/Iliad Book VI.htm

locvsamoenvs.wordpress.com/2015/01/31/homers-iliad-book-6-hectors-farewell/

>He stretched his arms towards his child, but the boy cried and nestled in his nurse's bosom, scared at the sight of his father's armour, and at the horse-hair plume that nodded fiercely from his helmet. His father and mother laughed to see him, but Hector took the helmet from his head and laid it all gleaming upon the ground. Then he took his darling child, kissed him, and dandled him in his arms, praying over him the while to Jove and to all the gods. "Jove," he cried, "grant that this my child may be even as myself, chief among the Trojans; let him be not less excellent in strength, and let him rule Ilius with his might. Then may one say of him as he comes from battle, 'The son is far better than the father.' May he bring back the blood-stained spoils of him whom he has laid low, and let his mother's heart be glad.'"

This was written 3000 years ago.

>Gods are the good guys. Always. Even when they're assholes.
Nope. Even gods get punished, gods behave like humans.

Hello Schopenhauer

Where did you steal that from?

>not recognizing a socrates quote
t.brainlet

Sure, they are there, but the core drama of the Iliad isn't about them. Its about Achille's rage, Hector's hubris, Priam asking for forgiveness. As a movie, it just wouldn't work to bloat the story with the gods. Maybe if you wanted a long form TV show, but definitely not as a movie.