Is mindrape really so terrible when it can be used to turn mass murdering villains into upstanding members of society?

Is mindrape really so terrible when it can be used to turn mass murdering villains into upstanding members of society?

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No.

I mean let's be real here if some dude had the ability to summon sharknado's and he used them to terrorize cities, I'm not sure too many people would mind if he got mindraped into instead summoning the sharks for infinite soup.

>how do we convey a psychic attack?
>MY MIND...!

if you alter someone's mind, fuck with their memories and change their whole personality you've effectively killed that person

What's weird is that they didn't even do that, they mindraped him but just just kept him as a incompetent supervillain.

Just as morally terrible as physical full on penetration rape.

Is it tho? We're influenced by foreign ideas everday user.

>don't mindrape people so they lose their appetite for rape and murder.
>instead just beat them up and leave them for a corrupt system to take care of.

Asking Batman about "friends"

But is it rape if I mind rape them to like it?

It's pretty bad.
But still justifiable.

The facilities are there for those criminals to try and reform, it's up to them whether they do or not. That's the point of free will. Mindrape takes away the person's free will.

If the criminal doesn't want to change, that's their fault, they're just going to have to be in prison forever and get buttfucked by Hawkman when they try and get out.

Yes, the ones Zatanna was doing was just making them retarded. However they did an experiment by trying to totally reform the Top by removing his mental illness and urge to do bad and he became a hero for a short time, but he eventually went bananas trying to reconcile his new, good personality with his old murderous one.

So later on Wally and Zatanna undo the mindrape of the Top and while he's no longer a complete lunatic he's returned to being a murdering asshole.

Batman was 100% right.

>I mindrape them to give their consent.
Now what?

You know, mind breaking them into liking it.

No it's not. Batman's a full on retard

>refuse to kill villains even if they're mass murdering psychopaths
>"we found a way to stop villains without killing them"
>reject it because 'muh morals' even though he breaks the law every night and by refusing to kill his villains is probably responsible for a ton of preventable deaths

Superman held the same stance as Batman.

>Surprised Zatanna does immoral acts.
Sorcery is the devil's work.
>that story where Zatanna goes up against witch-hunters is just fucking awesome and that's the Christian truth.

>'muh morals'


He is a better person than you.
And that makes you mad

Yes. Read "Squadron Supreme"

Then Superman is also a full on retard

>Is mindrape really so terrible

Yes.


Slavery is and always be better than mindrape and killing

Batman isn't a real person and also dresses up as a bat every night to punch people illegally

Sure, and flash does the same dressed as a red condom.

But you don't care about that right? You just have real hate for a fictional character

Killing is immoral, any which way you put it. It's like you don't understand superheroes at all, which is quite astonishing considering they're hardly a complex idea. Don't tell me you're one of those people who thinks Superman should just kill everyone in the world who's ever murdered or threatened to murder?

Batman should kill the joker is the same as saying th JL should go full authority and take over the world. But they don't mind, it's just about hating one character they don't like. It's hard forth the, to understand that some guys IRL are against murder

You say that but the death penalty still exists, if superheroes take the law into their own hands every night, killing a mass murdering psychopath (e.g Joker) who would probably be put to death if he could be caught wouldn't be immoral in the eyes of the law

Where is all this coming from user?

Superheroes exist to protect people, inspire them, and aid in the apprehension of criminals, not act as judge, jury and executioner.

>killing a mass murdering psychopath (e.g Joker) who would probably be put to death if he could be caught wouldn't be immoral in the eyes of the law

immoral and illigal are not the same.

Also the authority is more of your liking.

Superman should sink Israel

Because there is no free will in the outcome.

Bitch, have you never read A Clockwork Orange?

>all the retards in this thread that think that mindrape is somehow less effective than dressing up in a bat costume and breaking the jaws of random murderers/slogging the shit out of them

what the fuck?

Hawkmamn, you could just throw him in the phantom zone.

>commit a heinous crime
>"Well, now you've gone and done it. We have no choice but to rewire your brain so that you'll be nice and have no accountability for your previous actions!"

Do you see why this doesn't work?

Even beyond that, if you thought killing was bad for PR, imagine what happens when the public finds out you've been mindraping.

At least anyone, in theory, can kill you. Only certain Heroes have the power to mind fuck and what's stopping them from going power mad like Marvel's mutant psychic faggots?

calm down pedro. it's just a comic book.

Still only thinking in batman how sweet i bet you love the joker

The death penalty is still controversial for a reason.

Superheroes help stop crime, not punish criminals. They don't make sentences or personally throw them in jail. All they're there for is to stop them from robbing banks or killing people.

What is done with them after that is up to the people. If a jury finds the Joker guilty of murder and a judge sentences him to death, that's fine. If he gets off on insanity or a life sentence or whatever the fuck, that's not the superheroes' job to say that's not OK, it's the peoples'.

In the real world people would have lobbied for judicial reform to overturn the insanity plea (which it already works nothing like it does in comics) and to have stricter, quicker death penalties. But also in the real world villains wouldn't be escaping every other Tuesday.


Also, remember that the death penalty isn't you getting put on death row and then immediately executed, it takes years, sometimes even decades after a conviction to fully go through with it. Even public attorneys can waste years trying for appeals and things like that. The Joker could be getting a death sentence every time he's brought in for all we know but his escapes and further crimes would only delay his execution even longer.

If you already going to completely deprive a person of their free will and wipe away all that defines them as people, why not just kill them?, is easier and with less chances of horribly backfiring.

>what's stopping them from going power mad like Marvel's mutant psychic faggots?
They call him the Martian Manhunter.

If I could summon sharknadoes I would be the happiest person alive.

Influenced, not outright stripped of the notion that we make those choices of our own volition. That's the key difference there, one gives the sense of free will and individuality in that we come to those conclusions on our own, the other takes away our capacity to arrive to those conclusions.

Shark soup is awful tho.

ii

>mindrape really so terrible
You have to understand that Amerifats have a culture that stresses being an individual snowflake as the highest ideal; thus you can lock the Joker up (over and over and over) but never make any serious attempt at fixing whats wrong with him. This is why they overwhelmingly support the Death Penalty and For-Profit Prisons but underfund things like Mental Heath Services.

Yes, and Batman was in right because he doesn't like someone to mess with his mind and it will make him such a big hypocrite if he was ok with messing with others minds.

Zatanna, to erase his mind. Instead of, you know, taking him to prison or something.So do the other heroes realize the error of their ways and relegate Doctor Light to the due process that makes American democracy great? Nah, they just decide to mind-wipe Batman as well, thus tying up the whole story into a neat little rape-apologist package.

Batman was in right Because rapists Belong to the prison .

What they did to Dr. Light and The Top was no help them to overcome their issues, and was closer to a lobotomy than to any kind of mental health service.

this.
I'm not going to post Dr Light coming back from the dead as a zombie in Blackest Light (where he eats the saltified body of Firestorm's girlfriend or something) and threatens to rape Kimiyo's children.

Notably, Catwoman may or may not have been turned from villain to hero, or at least anti-hero. Zatanna 'pushed' her magically in that direction, but whether or not the impetus for good was always in Selina Kyle can never be a certainty now.

Well it can be certain literally right now since Identity Crisis isn't canon anymore even with Rebirth.

>So that you'll be nice and have no accountability for your actions

Oh dear God THIS.

People think the only objection to mindrape is "muh free will" but don't take into account the clusterfuck that's going to happen when you turn guilty humans into perfect little angels.

"The guy who raped and murdered your daughter? He's fine now and there's no need for a trial. He's a completely new person."

There are soooo many ways to abuse this idea. You essentially incentivized crime. Commit a crime, get a free brain upgrade and go right back home the next day.

There's no punitive branch to law now. You killed that. And you didn't even know you did it.

Identity Crisis era DC was the era were DC heroes went full Marvel. I think they wanted to "make up" for Batman being a cunt during Tower of Babel by giving the League skeletons in their closets.

The era was retarded and should be left to rot forever.

This holy shit it's an actual nightmare of mine.

No because your personality that exist when you was a child doesnt exist and yet you are still here.

Isn't that the principal behind the indigo tribe's recruitment method?

Yh no the media is designed to make you believe you have any free will to their brainwashing from childhood, just look at how many fags on Sup Forums throw a fit if someone acts racist. All those years of the TV calling racist evil making them eventually think it by second nature. Dont get started on the mindless hatred of national socialist.

>the racist nazi sympathizer gets upset at being oppressed by the big mean normal people

See what I mean and they act like they have any free will when their very behavior was molded by the TV.

Yes, they should just kill them instead.

>muh moral absolutism
There is, in fact, a point where killing becomes a justifiable response to dealing with a criminal, which is why we have a whole special process for it in our legal system. I'm not saying Batman should KILL the Joker, just that he should maybe not be such a little bitch when Punisher tries to do it.

Noice. Did they beat Aquaman to a pulp after?

This guy gets it

How stupid just take the criminal into a wasteland and slice his head of.

Killing a criminal stops them from commiting crime again so yes I suppoet the death of all criminals including thieves.

I always imagined a telepath who goes around and cures people from depression, addiction and other psychological disorders.

Rape is a good thing. Period.

Are you pretending that people don't retain any trait of their personnality when they grow up?

It's true that media does have an effect on us, of course, but whether there's free will or not adults do have the ability of choice.

Of course, the first step is recognizing what biases and dogma you grew up with.

For example, I think that people kneejerk too easily about perceived racism, but that fascism is an awful ideology that also centers around indoctrination into dogma and strengthening outmoded in-group/out-group biases.

While I agree with you that America would rather punish the people who commit a crime rather than actually preventing or discouraging the crime itself (e.g. the War on Drugs), that's less a corruption of 'individual snowflake' and more 'every American has a chance to better themselves', which a lot of people translate into 'if you've screwed up in life, it's your fault rather than upbringing or mental disease or the various other things that are out of our control but can still screw us over". Think WASPs, not Tumblr.

That's like saying there is no difference between letting a tree grow naturally and grafting it.

>Being this reductionist

Things can exist as a continuum through time user. Stocks. Governments. And human personalities. All of which people get mad at you for destroying carelessly and won't show you mercy if you argue "well they weren't like how they started out".

That would actually be a pretty cool idea, and might break some new moral grounds.
Did anyone ever do this?

>Superheroes ever using superpowers for anything other than beating up bad guys

user...

Reminds me of youtube.com/watch?v=MqTrdptLRrs

The hard thing with telepaths fucking around in your brain is proving consent.

Did you REALLY want to be cured of your addiction or was that something they implanted in your mind? How do you know the telepath cured your addiction and didn't do anything else to your brain on the way out?

It's a legal clusterfuck, and the best solution would probably be something where you have telepaths in their own super-isolated, super-rich cities where you essentially agree that people will be coming and going in your brain when you cross the border into psychic town.

Having telepaths freely walking around in the general public is asking for trouble. This isn't a case of "they're too powerful, they're walking machine guns ad WMD". This is a case of "they're too powerful and can make you and everyone else forget everything they ever did or give you false memories".

X-Men never goes into how psychics would have a much, much, MUCH harder time being accepted into society than guys with metal claws and eyebeams.

>Did you REALLY want to be cured of your addiction or was that something they implanted in your mind? How do you know the telepath cured your addiction and didn't do anything else to your brain on the way out?

That's why it's an interesting idea for a story. It's a superhero, but not one that fights. There's moral questions about the limits of power. The conflict comes not from the threat of the world being destroyed but the ethical questions that others have about the hero and the hero have about themselves.

>beating the shit out of the Punisher because he's going to commit murder = being a bitch

Right...

>Killing the Joker is crossing a line

You know, I understand if The Joker was just some hoodlum that shot a store clerk during a robbery but The Joker is an attention whore edgelord.

Killing Joker does not equal killing a normal criminal, but no one really talks about that.

That's what I meant with breaking new moral grounds. A universe like that has amazing potential.

It could even have some applicability or allegory for using medication to balance out mental disorders and stuff like that.

That's why I always liked "Scanners", all their telepaths had some kind of mental illness because they couldn't develop their own personality properly when they were drowned in a sea of minds all around them.

Stuff like that is just really cool.

Well, the Telepath doesn't need to be legalized. He could be a "psychological" vigilant. Walking the earth, probing different minds and helping those who he sees need his help.

Did you ever wanted to do something but you didn't have the courage to do so? He could cure your anxiety.

If the joker is about to kill someone, go ahead and shoot him.

If no one is directly in danger and you can capture him, do that instead.

It's not like Batman can help how incredibly shitty the jails and mental institutions in Gotham are.

Their incompetence at preventing people from escaping is the real monster.

Given that he's fucked with the League and by extension Green Lantern's deputy buddies can't GL just send Joker's ass to space jail?

Is mindrap really so terrible when it can be used to turn mass murdering villains into successful musicians?

I don't know if they would want him, but that would be a pretty effective way to keep Joker in jail.

Knowing comics however, he would probably escape anyway and crashland the space jail into New York city and take over the world with his ass palls from super jail.

So it's a mixed bag.

>mindrap
>succesful musicians
Are you pulling my leg over here, user?

Ignoring all the moral implications, mindrape always wears off, an now you got a more pissed off edgier villain running around.

I've always felt the safest way to deal with him is to keep Joker in an induced coma. but its possible his warped body chemistry would either be resistant or just straight up respond weirdly to the drugs

I always thought it would be fun to see Joker in a prison ran entirely by emotionless robots.

No audience for his jokes. It'll be absolute hell for him.

No one had a problem with it when they did it to the White Martians in Morrison's JLA.

okay no. hat's just begging for him to pull 'by the why I know hack-fu' and turn them into an army of clounbots

A WHITE FUCKING MARTIAN

the real question is why haven't any of batmans insane rogues been sentenced to death.

Light knew their identities and was rattling off how he was going to rape everyone the heroes knew. Not wiping his mind would have been stupid given the cardboard nature of every prison the DCU. The Top was the same.

If it's multiple innocents getting raped versus some rapist getting the awful taken out of his head I think the rational decision is very clear.

Superman used the argument that they prepare for this when they becomes heroes which means that they should just accept the consequences of some psycho figuring out their mother's address, as if the heroes were the only ones being affected by their decision not to fix said psycho.

blame Lord Death Man for invalidating the entire death penalty

There was a thread about psychic assholes. This thread reminded of it.

>Each one is Superman with even more powers and want to kill all humanity

That was a very special case

For the people who are against mindrape and superheroes killing anybody, what solutions would you offer for dealing with supervillains in the Big 2? This is a genuine question. I'm currently not for or against anything here. I just want to know what sort of stuff you would come up with that you'd think would be effective. Could lead to some very interesting storytelling.

Superman kept quiet because he knew there was no other way.

>For the people who are against mindrape and superheroes killing anybody, what solutions would you offer for dealing with supervillains in the Big 2?

stop grinding these characters out into perpetuity and allow them to have some closure lmao