Are you ready for Astonishing X-Men by Charles "Continuity is shit" Soule

Are you ready for Astonishing X-Men by Charles "Continuity is shit" Soule

The peanut man strikes again

...

>Some longtime X-fans may dislike that, but I'll take the hit.

Nobody is told more often to drink piss and like it than X-Men fans.

His statements are vague but given all recent Marvel projects it is reasonable to expect shit on a platter.

All in their eternal hunt for that mythical beast of "New consumers who weren't into comics before but will totally buy comics now and compensate for all the longtime consumers we disregarded."

Continuity has been very important in certain areas of the Marvel U in recent years (Soule's precious Inhumans have been very tightly scripted over a number of series and volumes, for example). X-books, not so much. I reread Death of Wolverine today and Soule seemed not to have realized that Jeph Loeb had written a whole storyline where Logan killed Sabretooth. Now, that story did suck, so maybe he's saying he's going to ignore what he thinks isn't good. Fair enough. However, Remender's Cap was good and the dude ignored it. Morrison, Whedon and Gillen's runs focusing on Cyclops were terrific, and he ignored those stories. Just listen to him on Word Balloon and you'll see the guys hates the X-Men or at least thinks the Inhumans are cooler. I'll stick to the Gold book and Weapon X for starters. His Swamp Thing was cool, so maybe he'll win me over. As a Daredevil and X-Men fan, though, the guy's been a disaster.

Do X-men fans still exist? I would think Marvel had snuffed the last of them out by now. The audience for this is almost guaranteed to be new to the franchise.

This sounds like a GOOD thing, for once in a long time they're not telling X-Men fans to just take their scraps and be happy, they're showing a desire to actually get more people onboard and grow X-Men's popularity again.

Of course we'll see how this approach actually pans out once Marvel editorial and executives have had their turn with it.

implying any longtime x-men fans still read x-men after the last few years

I think it's funny how Marvel fans love to talk about how Marvel is all about continuity, but 90% of their books don't even use it.

jesus fucking christ, marvel is gassing the last handful of x-men fans. I don't even keep up with the x-men anymore

I was trying to tell him. He won't listen.

They are talking about the movies whenever they say that.

Weird, usually his twitter is filled with nothing but enabling sycophants. I guess IvX was the straw that broke the camel's back.

super retarded continuity is what's fucking up X Men anyways

only fucking massive Comic Book Guy-tier spergs in their 30s-40s who've been reading X Men for years and somehow still enjoy it would care about this

>Nobody is told more often to drink piss and like it than X-Men fans.
Being an X-Men fan is suffering.

Soule's like the ULTIMATE B-list writer. Remember when Astonishing meant you get big names like Whedon or Warren Ellis?

>Continuity and Canon are the weeds in the garden of comics storytelling
What, it's more like fertilizer you dumb bitch.

>Whedon
>Warren Ellis
>>Big names
For (YOU)

Most of Sup Forums. Wait Sup Forums doesn't read comics.

Thirty somethings who watched the cartoon as children.

I never read X-Men because of their shitty continuity. Good for him to ignore that, maybe I can start now.

He's not even talking about retcons, just that he's not wanking off the continuity, this a non-issue, I've read so much fucking X-Men, but you can't possibly remember this 30 fucking years telenovela unless you're a full basement dweller re-reading back issues daily. Soule is a good working man writer, good with giving some life into dead B-teams, the whole RessureXion team of writers and artist is super underwhelming, but I have faith that if one guy's getting a sneaker hit in, it'll be Charles "made the Red Lanterns book actually work for a hot mine" Soule.

this is fucking stupid
>We need to play fast and loose with continuity because then newer fans will get confused
It's called fucking editor notes you idiots. With the ease of access of getting older issues now with Comixology you'd think they'd be more common as a way of telling new readers what to read in case they're confused.
>We need to put Magneto in fullpower again because it's confusing that he's weakened for some reason
>Just roll with it
This is stupid.

Soule hasn't had a great book in a long time, it'll be Bunn who's actually gonna deliver since we know he can at least write Magneto

He's already shown he can't write the x-men or inhumans well. The book is doomed.

>ITT: Editors don't want to do work and Writer doesn't want to be bothered to do research

>new reader friendly
when will they learn?

He just wants to permantly kill off more mutants. Disney want the X-Men franchise dead so they can hopefully one day pick it up cheap from Fox.

Unlucky for them most people only like X-Men til the 91-95 era then dropped it already.

>WAAAAH CONTINUITY AND HISTORY IS SCARY
>I CAN'T START A BOOK UNLESS I READ AND UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT
this is just lazy on the writer's side and stupid on your side.

Good, I like my continuity fast and loose, just the way DC gives it to me. All the halfway decent writers think this way, only massive spergs like Byrne want sterile canon.

Get fucking rid of the o5 and I'm willing to listen.

Swamp Thing is a perfect example as he picked up off a single run, mostly doing all his own thing.

More so with Inhumans.

Compare that to Daredevil, he'll do his own thing and that's it.

/Thread

ie the only people on earth who buy comic books, Soule is going to get ran out of X-Men so fast, I'll be shocked if he makes it through an entire year with that attitude.

the fuck happened to him? I liked his DC works.

>ie the only people on earth who buy comic books
There are people still buying X-Men comics who care about continuity? I find that very hard to believe.

He's a yes man who'll write anything. Inhumanity, Wolverines, Inhumans, and IvX. Give him whatever. Daredevil and She Hulk are the only titles of his on Marvel that seems to genuinely evoke some sense of quality. It's clear he has no interest with any of these seeing on his blatant disregard and ignorance of continuity all under the banner of him trying to keep it simple for new readers (Like seriously what the fuck, I doubt a new reader would be picking up IvX to start something, in fact someone new who started pre-Secret Wars would be more confused with how Magneto and Company have their powers working and how people still think Cyclops is wrong)

There's been quite a few X-Men fans who have jumped over to DC since Rebirth.

>Source: my hairy ass

No. Warren Ellis's run on AXM pretty much killed the book as an A-list title.

>the fuck happened to him? I liked his DC works.

He had better editors at DC.

There's a difference between playing loose and fast with continuity and not even being consistent with the books, which is where the X-Men are at now.

"CONTINUITY SHOULD ALWAYS BE IGNORED" is what got us "Cyclops is Hitler!..... Because.... uh.... he destroyed the Terrigen Mists because it was killing Mutants!"

Isn't X-Men continuity in particular incredibly convoluted and downright self-contradictory in places? There's a bunch of timelines to keep track of, character histories that have changed completely over the years, tons of retcons, alternate universes, changing allegiances, etc. etc.

Fuck, I kinda agree with him that comic book continuity shouldn't be considered sacrosanct, especially because writers fuck with said continuity all the goddamn time, making sweeping retroactive changes to shit so they can sell a few more comics by, say, making Captain America a HYDRA sleeper agent somehow. Not that it fucking matters, because eventually it's all back to the fucking status quo anyway. It confuses me that longtime comic readers bitch about this shit when they know damn well that shit will go back to normal inside of a year anyway.

I agree that it's a nice idea...but "long term X-Men fans" are the only people who read X-Men comics...

>His Swamp Thing was cool,
I keep hearing people say this (and it was much much better at the start of his run than the Rotworld clusterfuck that preceded it); but I got really pissed when he killed off The Parliament of Trees and just gave up and quit reading when he went full Lantern Spectrum with the Avatars (We had Green (plants), Red (animals), Grey (fungus), plus Machines and Microbes and probably a few more I'm forgetting.

And every single thing he's done since Thunderbolts as been mediocre-to-shit (including his indie stuff like Letter 44 and Curse Words).

Nigger's on my short list of "don't even bother" at this point along with Bendis and Hopeless.

Can all of you please fuck off with this "Bunn is good because Magneto" meme? That series went straight to shitter as soon as the original artist left the title. After that it was just meandering with no clear goal in sight and ended with a whimper in the godawful Secret Wars tie-in.

Bullshit. There is no way to write all those characters without addressing the already built-in drama.

>it was just meandering with no clear goal in sight and ended with a whimper in the godawful Secret Wars tie-in.
THIS! I went back and read it expecting it to be like Vision or Hawkeye and it was just stuff happens. And then more stuff happens. Because reasons. The End.

>Daredevil and She Hulk are the only titles of his on Marvel that seems to genuinely evoke some sense of quality.
They're both fellow Juris Doctors (although I personally think he's too close to home with them: I found the legal bits in both comics to be tedious and uninteresting and I've read plenty of crime comics and watched more than my share of Legal Dramas over the years).

>but I got really pissed when he killed off The Parliament of Trees

you should have kept on reading because he didn't really kill them, but I guess you seem to like to jump to conclusions and ragequit.

>We had Green (plants), Red (animals), Grey (fungus), plus Machines and Microbes and probably a few more I'm forgetting.

Only machines and microbes were his. Gray/Red/Green already existed pre-Nu52. Furthermore none of that is original. The Vertigo run of ST as well as 80s Firestorm and 90s Aquaman established several other elemental groupings with ST being a player in them.

>you should have kept on reading
Charlie, you're drunk. Go home.

I just wanted the Inhuman shilling and their fart cloud gone. And for "Cyclops is Hitler" to stop.

The former is stopping now (hopefully) so maybe Cyclops will stop being shit on also.

Maybe now we can move forward to an actual interesting status quo (seriously, this inhuman cloud shit was the worst thing Marvel had done in a long time. Right up there with CW2). HOPEFULLY.

X-Men continuity isn't end all be all , but you won't be able to get away with undoing the Messiah War and the Dark Angel Saga without at least addressing them.

I'm not saying we have to bring up that time Mystique disguised herself as a teenage student to try and fuck Gambit, but you can't rewind these characters to the 1990's

personally as long as Soule remembers Gambit's and Rogue's accents and spares us another White Psylocke returns story, I'll be happy.

You know the reason why people praise Bunn is because of Sinestro.

>only fucking massive Comic Book Guy-tier spergs in their 30s-40s who've been reading X Men for years and somehow still enjoy it would care about this
Wait, you mean the people who consistently buy comicbooks?

As a thirty-something who watched X-Men as a kid this is why I don't read X-Men, and am largely picking up DC books.

I'd LOVE a good Wolverine book man, and a good X-Men book would be ace too.

But continuity IS shit.

Bring
back
Claremont

>With the ease of access of getting older issues now with Comixology you'd think they'd be more common as a way of telling new readers what to read in case they're confused.

People don't wanna go down a rabbit hole of editor's notes solely to appease an autist who has too much free time on their hands to read 34958930248293058293058293068905 comics.

They know that there's no coming back. The X-fans are wise to them and can't forgive the bullshit.

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They did and I don't remember what even happened. I think it was X-Men '92 but unsure.

X-men Forever and Extreme.

>X-Treme

He's right. for comics that change writers, continuity is deadweight.

Nah, the X-Men pogrom is over
Perlmutter runs Marvel Entertainment. Now that he's been kicked off the movies he has no reason to keep the Fantastic 4 and X-Men down

After this happened, RessurXtion was announced and FF was hinted to return

So basically comics shouldn't exist past the life of one writer? I see. Because otherwise what you're suggesting is that it's all alt worlds and OOC fanfiction.
I don't disagree with you either. A lot of good runs are contained. Time to do away with the bug names then, though. Have writers actually come up with their own shit and create their own worlds and chacaters.
That or keep contiuity and respect the role it plays in continuing the story.
One or the other.

>continuity isn't important
Guess I shouldn't expect good writing from comic writers. I will stick with my books.

for comics in general, accessibility is dead weight. It's not an industry on the rise or one with a diverse audience.

In this case you're pissing off some of the only people who read your book. Continuity may be hard but DC tries to keep it in order and Marvel doesn't give a fuck. Which companies comics are doing well again?

This "new readers bullshit" is the same as a game developer saying "we want a to attract a new audience" it never works, just look at Saint row

Marvel is paying Claremont to NOT write

that's the beauty of it, they don't have too unless they're an autist like you. I've seen tons of editor's notes but that doesn't mean I followed through all of them, more or less the typical reaction you would get would be keeping that issue in mind in case they actually feel willing. It doesn't even have to be a specific issue, sometimes they just point out past events or moments

Claremont is shit now, did you fucking read Nightcrawler? Just enjoy X-Men Forever you old faggot.

Have you never come across a characterfag? They'll buy the books every month and rage about whatever shit is happening in them. Hopefully at some point they'll get sick of it and leave en masse.

Well Batman's been selling well for close to 80 years, so that's never happening

>been selling well for close to 80 years
>Batfags believe this
Batman wasn't always the selling force he is today.

Batman is a different beast at this point but I think batfags can probably claim they've at least been given some decent runs these past few years (maybe, these past couple of decades?) compared to what the xfags (and spiderfags) have gotten.

Dc has consistent continuity since rebirth

Batfags are easy to please. They loved Snyder's run, after all. Hell, they love most things. They love both King's and Tynion's runs right now even though they couldn't possibly be any more different. Though I think the ones that love Tynion's 'Tec are technically "Batfam-fags"

he was one of only three superheroes to survive the purge of the 1950s

The Trinity survived.

Does Deadpool count as X-men book

probably why they are the Trinity in the first place

yes and no

Never said otherwise, there's a reason why they were the icons of American comics for decades before MCU.

Heck even now people will remember the Justice League more than anything Marvel:

New readers fucking love continuity. They don't get overwhelmed, they don't freak out, they don't run away because they don't understand why X has Y now. They get fucking stoke and want to learn more about their hero. They want to understand their rivalries of long ago, their past dramas, getting to see what the hero was before they discovered them. I have never met a fan get spook away from a good book because the lore was heavy, instead they eat that shit up.
Now writers, writers can be huge manbaby pussy that can't handle that shit. They want to tell their story and lore blocks that off them. They want heroes and villains the way they want them damn the lore and damn the fans. So rather than manning up and working with what they got they go full bitch and make weak ass excuses like "reader friendly" when really all it does it make a reader that much more confused because now you need a damn flowchart to understand what is canon now and what isn't and that keeps readers away more than anything. It was one of the reason Marvel kept such a huge lead on DC in the 80s and 90s. At Marvel, it all happen, every story was all tied together. DC on the other hand, required you to keep track of what revision you were on.

tldr:Readers like lore and history. This guy is a huge tool and is just that lazy to do his job right.

Wait, you mean people who just accept whatever shit Marvel shovels their way because they're fucking dumb and can keep up with the overly convoluted history of the X Men because they have no lives, hobbies or other interests?

>because they have no lives, hobbies or other interests?
Irrelevant, but yes.
Those people, the people who actually buy comics.

>>Soule explicitly says he's not ignoring continuity but just won't make it super important

Fans: he's ruining the continuity and ignoring everything that eva happened!

Or better, look at Square Enix, or Capcom.

All their "people doesn't like that anymore" or "we need to adapt to the new times" but now their surviving franchises do OK at best when they used to be best sellers.

They never stop saying "change is necessary to appeal the new audiences", but the only thing they achieved with changes was kill most of their franchises

Shit. You got me. You're actually right.

People with criminally bad taste and retarded levels of brand loyalty are in fact the ones buying Marvel comics.

>saving TGT images from facebook

The dense continuity was always a selling point for the X-Men to me.

>I want that Marvel paycheck, but I don't wanna have to do anything more than read the wiki for each mutant

I wouldn't put to much stock into what he says anyway. Remember when he said Black Bolt would be the main character of Uncanny Inhumans?

>I've seen tons of editor's notes but that doesn't mean I followed through all of them,

I think that is called unprofessionalism...

Red Lanterns was only liked because Soule was smart enough to know that Guy-wank is all it takes for people to love a GL comic. His Inhuman work was mediocre at best and often worse, and has actively damaged the Inhuman mythos, from the terrigen shit to destroying Medusa/Black Bolt. His Daredevil sucks, Superman/Wonder Woman was hot garbage, as was his Thunderbolts. I don't think I even need to speak on the insulting quality of IvX...

There's no reason to expect good work from this man currently.

Has there been an X-story since Secret Wars that was worth a shit?

I honestly can't remember the last x-story that was well received, maybe Remender's X-Force?

Old Man Logan. That's it

How many fucking X-books are there now?

Comic book canons are often a poorly-written clusterfuck, and as a result a lot of stories are only worth looking at independently.

I don't think continuity is all that high of a barrier for new readers, though. Continuity and accessibility aren't mutually exclusive. The issue is when books become self-referential soap operas, which is all too often with cape books.

I came back to comics early last year after twenty years away. X-Men, Generation X, Jubilee Cyclops, Rogue, etc.

This last year of reEducation has been full of fuck.

He has no reason to keep the X-men down since Marvel is working with Fox on the X-men shows. He still has a reason to keep the FF down though.