Rob Liefeld 1960s Edition

Comic book historians will recall that when Marvel Comics made its very successful debut primarily with Jack Kirbys art and stunning monthly production, DC was flabbergasted. The editors there simply didnt understand Kirbys appeal, and believed they had much better artists working for them.

That brings to mind the many criticisms of Rob Liefeld. despite his monster level of success at Marvel, then Image, then Marvel again, (and some DC work too eventually), no other artist has faced his criticisms in modern times. So, I wondered, how would his art have been received in the 1960s, on the same comic racks as Jack Kirbys books?
As far as I can tell he was Kirby-like in his ability to draw explosive and powerful panels, (though I have read that he often swiped others panels and pages as well as character designs, just adding pouches and guns). So, in the 60s he would have been swiping from much tamer layouts, an the coloring would have been the ol' dots..what were they called?...on the chepest newsprint possible. Would his art have sold like Kirbys? It was pretty powerful even for the 90s so i expect it would have lown readers away then but I do wonder if the swiping would have tame some of his arts "power" an impact.
I have some pix that feature characters he could have drawn back then. The first is of DC as I wonder what you think would have happened if DC answered Marvels Kirby with Liefeld? Its also true that some of his design sensibilities might have been different base on what he would have referenced s costume material and accessories/weaponry.
This is a pic showing what if Rob Liefeld had drawn Worlds Finest in the 60s?

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Here is what I picked to show if he drew Action Comics but I think its the same dang pic without Batman in it.

Here, Liefeld takes over the Avengers monthly.

Civil War by Stan Lee and Rob Liefeld might have been a hot seller.

He wouldve drawn a dynamic Thor.

Iron Man literally looks like red/gold Spawn or some shit.

I saw this comparison pic for the first time tonight and it forces me to rethink the iconic worst drawing ever. Maybe Rob referenced bodybuilders for his heroes? I personally think that would be a bad choice when characters are meant to have ordinary civilian identities as bodybuilders do anything but blend in with even athletically fit people. I had the one with "Ahnold" the Guvinator but I cant find it now. Its an even better example of the Cap drawing.

I hope someone happens to have a swipe file folder showing examples of Liefeld swiping from other artists. I would like to learn more about that. swiping seems to have been a thing for awhile in the mid 90s-early 200s but idk if artists are still oing it much, beyond that guy that does women in photo realistic style. cant recall his name but he has done a lot of XMen/mutants work over the years and stays employed despite his well known swiping. Maybe he just swipes from photographers instead of comic book artists? Bah! I cant recall his name.
Here, we see what Liefeld woudlve done with a captain America run. I think he wouldve sold like hotcakes even with the swipe limitations and coloring of the time period. Hmmm just thought of the layout standrads then. Im not sure if broken panels were possible with 60s era printing.

>Rob Liefeld
Another hack that jumped on the 'Edgy 90's extreme' train that Frank Miller started.

Well, if he jumped on Kirbys cosmic trend in the 60s would he have been a hit? Thats the question. I say yes, even with the limits of the time. We call him a hack but in the 90s readers, including many of us that were there, couldnt buy enough of his work. we made him super rich.

>no other artist has faced his criticisms in modern times.
Oh horseshit.
>So, I wondered, how would his art have been received in the 1960s
There have been terrible Liefeld-tier artists in every decade.

Rob's only claim to fame is his relative popularity and ubiquitousness in the 90's while being a terrible artist.

>Well, if he jumped on Kirbys cosmic trend in the 60s would he have been a hit?
no, cause he wouldn't been born.
>Thats the question. I say yes, even with the limits of the time. We call him a hack but in the 90s readers, including many of us that were there, couldnt buy enough of his work. we made him super rich.
and he's credited for making some of the worst characters and character designs too.

Im not defending the guy. He isnt my kind of artist. When fans were buying multiple copies of XForce #1 I was building my Barry Windsor Smith collection. The only Image artist that ever really captured my imagination and made me a big fan was Travis Charest. I still love his art. I would say he is probably my second favorite behind BWS. I liked John Byrne an George Perez back then too, and today I would say Steve McNiven has been my favorite.

>no other artist has faced his criticisms in modern times.

Of what criticisms? Anatomy? I see Ramos get shit on here for his anatomy. Swiping? Greg Land.

>though I have read that he often swiped others panels and pages as well as character designs

What comic fans (or at least the ones that barely have a sense of history beyond the last decade or two of comics) don't tell you is that a lot of artists swiped A FUCKING LOT back in the 40's all the way to the start of Liefeld's career. And of course, past that. And I don't mean just Bob Kane. That doesn't mean Liefeld was neccesarily right in swiping, but it was actually far more common than you would ever realize and Liefeld wouldn't have been criticized for swiping back then... mainly because like maybe small number of people in the country in the 60's would've had access to a large amount of 60's comics, much less 40's to 60's comics. It's not like the 80's or 90's where someone can access reprints or back issues to compare, or the 00's and 10's with the internet.

>The first is of DC as I wonder what you think would have happened if DC answered Marvels Kirby with Liefeld? Its also true that some of his design sensibilities might have been different base on what he would have referenced s costume material and accessories/weaponry.

You're also making a hypothetical that doesn't entirely work. And it wouldn't just be "some" of his design sensibilities that would be different, it'd be a lot.
Like said he wouldn't have been around then. He wasn't born till the late 60's.

But let's say he was born in the 40's instead. He'd have had different influences not just in comics but in media. You don't get Liefeld as you know him without the action movies of the 80's or MTV or the comics he grew up with--He was inspired by Frank Miller, John Byrne, George Perez, Art Adams, and others--none of these guys would've been in comics during the 50's and 60's! He was also reading X-Men, New Teen Titans, and manga (Appleseed being one of them), none of which would've been available in the US at that time either. Kirby might've been an influence but assuming Liefeld got into the industry in the 60's at the same age he did in real-life, he would've been inspired by different comics and had a different style altogether.

Maybe he'd be inspired by Kirby... But if he were a kid in the 50's the only Kirby he'd have exposure to was like the 50's monster titles from Marvel, and what you assume to be Jack Kirby's style didn't get underway till maybe around the time the Inhumans got introduced. Kirby's style was very different during the 40's to the early 60's. Still action-packed, but only a hint of what'd he'd do in the mid-60's to the 80's.

Thanks for the replies you guise. Thats the kind of thoughts I was interested in. GREG LAND! Thats whose name I couldnt recall. I sortve like Land but only for covers an pin ups. I dont care for his layout pages an panels.
An the second guy is right too. I int stop to think that Liefelds style was born from his more modern influences. If he were a pro artist in the 60s he wouldve had war, romance, DC, and EC comics to draw from, among others. His selection wouldve been limited to what his local drugstore or newstand carried. Maybe if he followed Life and National geographic magazines he couldve had some photography influences. As I recall most of Kirbys comic work prior to Marvel was in war and romance titles. he went really cosmic with Marvel, especially the FF. he created so many totally original characters i cant recall when the inhumans and eternals came along but i seem to recall he designed Asgard and, I think, was on Thor as well as the Avengers? Its hard to remember it all desu. Liefeld might have flopped if all he had to draw from was Sgt Rock and True Romance plus DC and their somewhat bland artists at the time. (in comparison to Kirby)

>As I recall most of Kirbys comic work prior to Marvel was in war and romance titles.

He did a variety of stuff. He (along with Joe Simon) did the romance stuff in late 40's but he was also doing western comics, sci-fi comics, crime comics, and even the occasional superhero like Fighting American or The Fly (this was around the time when there were few superhero comics around mind you).

I just checked right now and I thought it'd have just been Marvel monsters but Kirby did do some other stuff around the late 50's aside from that, as well; other sci-fi and fantasy stories. And I think Challengers of the Unknown was around at this time as well.

Kirby created the Inhumans during his run on Fantastic Four. I remember it was before the first Silver Surfer & Galactus story. Eternals came later in the 1970's.

If you are still around you seem quite knowledgeable. To what school would you describe the art style of Barry Windsor Smith? I especially liked his Valiant and Weapon X, and X-Men runs nore so than Conana, (though that is great too). Ive always called his style neoclassical. I would like to know other artists with similar styles. When i try to describe it in google searches it usuallu brings up p. craig russell but thats a little more fantsy oriented than the BWs work i really like. i love, for example, his machine man mini series. I just like the way he draws cables and electronics I guess haha. Plus, ofcourse, his faces and figures, and his fabrics are superb. (His fabrics and also hair is what makes me like Charest and, to a lesser extent McNiven). If you have any suggestions and could enlighten me itd be appreciated.

My keyboard is sticking. Lots of typos. That was CONAN obviously.

>To what school would you describe the art style of Barry Windsor Smith?

His early work (pre-Conan; I forgot all that he worked on before Conan but I think one of them was a few issues of Avengers) is definitely Kirby-inspired, also some Steranko. Then in Conan you get to see him gradually shed those style influences till you get closer to what he's known for by the later issues. And then sometime in the 70's he got influenced by Pre-Raphaelite styles:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Raphaelite_Brotherhood

Also something I remembered is that BWS, Berni Wrightson, Mike Kaluta, and Jeffrey Jones shared a loft in the mid-70's and called their group The Studio. It wouldn't surprise me if he took some influence from them while working alongside them.

I kind of see BWS as a precursor to George Perez and maybe Jim Lee and others, in some ways, with that intricate linework he did back in the 70's.

Thanks user. will look into the pre-raphaelite info.

Oh yeah...he definitely incorporated pre-raphaelite styles. That Arthur Hughes painting reminds me of the piece BWS did of the knight amongst all sorts of fauna. maybe Ethan Van Scriver should be considered part of the BWS-pre-ralph club too.