MCU Hank Pym

Does anybody else love Michael Douglass as a veteran adventurer from the 80's? The Ant-Man treated Pym with more respect than his entire life in the comics. I really hope Ant-Man & the Wasp gives us more flashbacks. Especially Janet during their operative days for SHIELD.

Anyone else sorta feel sorry for Howard Stark and his wife when you realize that had Hank not quit in 1989, Winter Soldier might not have assassinated them? Think about it, only 2 years later after quitting, Howard would be transporting 5 doses of recreated Super-Soldier Serum. You'd think that Stark would've ensured countermeasures so that nobody would attack him and his wife while transporting that stuff. Pym would've been the perfect bodyguard. He'd remain in shrunken mode for the duration of the ride and once Bucky tries to attack, Hank would fight him and most likely defeat him.

Also, how big of a scientific corporation was Pym Tech? Were they serious rivals to Stark Industries? What sort of fields of study did they pursue? I imagine nanotech would be one of them, but what else?

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I'm still amazed how good the CGI was for recreating a younger Michael Douglas, looking like he did back in the day.

yeah i hope they do more with Pym in the sequel.

Exactly. It was spot-on perfect.

youtube.com/watch?v=uaz6nxyQA28

The beauty of the Ant-Man intro was that they managed to make Douglas look close to what he was in 1989.

youtube.com/watch?v=S_PMSA9fgiI

And they managed to turn Hayley Atwell into a believable 60something. A very hot 60something to boot.

I'd kill to see a prequel mini-series. Like 5-6 episodes of Hank and Janet in the 80's.

Oh and I loved Hank AND Janet in Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Seriously, the movies and the cartoons do a way better job with those characters than comic book writers.

Too expensive to do that beyond a few scenes. I just hope Douglas doesn't die on us anytime soon...

>Pym would've been the perfect bodyguard. He'd remain in shrunken mode for the duration of the ride and once Bucky tries to attack, Hank would fight him
Unless Pym goes sub-atomic or in Giant-mode, Bucky would kick his ass. Remember, Winter Soldier is a ruthless killer with enhanced abilities and that cybernetic arm packs a serious punch.

>Unless Pym goes sub-atomic or in Giant-mode, Bucky would kick his ass.

It's funny to me that you think that

Pym would've wrecked Bucky's shit

I'm very impressed with Ant-Man's powers, but how is he going to defeat a hardened assassin who can bench 1000 pounds minimum? Bucky's strength is on par with MCU Cap who can easily toss a motorcycle around. And he has enhanced durability so even if Pym uses his full-power, it'll hurt Bucky but not put him out of commission.

Like I said, besides sub-atomic or Giant-Man, Hank is gonna have a fight on his hands. Though he could plausibly destroy the bionic arm so it gives him a better chance.

Even at Ant size, Pym probably could have detached Bucky's arm.

Bucky isn't like Falcon. He doesn't have those enhanced vision goggles that would let him track Pym's movements at shrunken size.

Bucky still has human joints and pressure points.

Ant-man hitting those points or jumping on them with his full weight concentrated on a single point would wreck Bucky. A couple hits like that and Bucky's out cold

>Even at Ant size, Pym probably could have detached Bucky's arm.
How? Even Black Panther (whose got enhanced strength, agility, durability, endurance) struggled against that arm.

>Bucky isn't like Falcon. He doesn't have those enhanced vision goggles that would let him track Pym's movements at shrunken size.
This is true. It does give Hank an advantage, but wouldn't Bucky's enhanced senses be able to get a bead on Hank's movements?

But Tony's parents DEFINITELY have a better chance of survival if Hank tagged along. Too bad SHIELD burned their bridges with him by trying to recreate Pym Particles. Can you imagine the kind of damage HYDRA would've done if they had it in 1989?

Hmm, that could work. But it's his enhanced durability and healing factor that plays a part here. Hank is gonna have to completely wreck Bucky's shit quickly if he's gonna have a chance in defeating him with those tactics you've mentioned.

Man, why the fuck didn't we get a Bucky/Hank Pym clash in the 80's? On one of his missions in Russia, Hank fights the Winter Soldier to a draw or something. Shit would've been epic.

>How? Even Black Panther (whose got enhanced strength, agility, durability, endurance) struggled against that arm.
The same way Scott started disassembling Iron Man's armor in Civil War. Shrink down, get in and start pulling wires out

With all of those sections it should be easy for him to get in without going subatomic

I admit that Scott being expelled from Tony's armor was TOO easy. He could've just clung onto something and proceeded to fuck up everything internally. Lang was definitely the MVP for Team Cap. He played a major role in keeping Tony's team on its toes.

I get what you're saying about destroying the arm from within, but he's gotta find or make an opening into it first.

>You'd think that Stark would've ensured countermeasures so that nobody would attack him and his wife while transporting that stuff. Pym would've been the perfect bodyguard.

He might've. But I doubt Hank would've tagged along. I don't think Hank particularly liked Howard even if forgetting about Howard trying to steal the Pym Particle.

Also, I suspect that almost NO ONE was probably supposed to know about Stark successfully recreating the Erskine's serum. It was probably something Howard developed himself on the down-low in his own basement or someshit and only a select very few were in on it. If it was an officially sanctioned project, I don't think they would've allowed Howard to transport it unguarded in the trunk of his car in the middle of nowhere.

>Also, how big of a scientific corporation was Pym Tech?
Enough to make Pym and Cross wealthy, apparently.

>Were they serious rivals to Stark Industries?
Doubtful. Whilst we don't know their particular fields of application, I doubt it was the same as Stark's. Stark Industries was primarily a weapons developer.

>Unless Pym goes sub-atomic or in Giant-mode, Bucky would kick his ass. Remember, Winter Soldier is a ruthless killer with enhanced abilities and that cybernetic arm packs a serious punch.

If Pym stayed in his original size, yeah. But super zoom-up goggles didn't exist in 91, apparently. For all Bucky's enhancements, there's little he can do against someone who's too small to see when punching him.

Pym actually might could've killed Bucky.

I could see Bucky winning based on what we saw in the movie. Ant-Man's powers should be superior but there are parts in the movie where he gets slapped out of the air by regular humans.

>I admit that Scott being expelled from Tony's armor was TOO easy.

I disagree. The armor was pumping out a coolant of some kind. At that size, that might feel like sub-zero temperatures for him.

>Too expensive to do that beyond a few scenes.
Can't be more expensive than Tarkin in Rogue One.

You know, the one thing I noticed about everyone whose taken the recreation of Erskine's formula is that there's no Vita-Ray treatment. That's the other half of the Super-Soldier process. Taking the Serum is useless without having the Vita-Ray bombardment to stabilize the reaction. It's why Steve was a bonafide success.

Blonsky, Bucky, and those 5 HYDRA test subjects all lacked the Vita-Ray treatment so no shit they're mentally unstable.

I wonder how nobody in the world, not even Stark remembers Vita-Rays when Erskine clearly yells out "now commencing Vita-Ray bombardment" or some shit like that when they did it to Cap

Yeah like the Falcon fight or that time when Scott used a ping-pong paddle to bat away Yellowjacket.

Still, the more this thread goes on, I'm willing to admit, that it's more of a 50/50 fight.

True though I'm surprised Hank didn't take Lang's suggestion in giving insulation for the suit after the Avengers compound infiltration. We know Scott got a new helmet in Civil War.

Tarkin's was shit. I loved the fact that they recreated Cushing, but the CGI was off.

>Vita-Ray bombardment

Lest I remember correctly, Erskine said that the Vita-Rays were meant to stimulate growth. I think that once the Serum was in Steve it would've done the same thing regardless. The Vita-Rays, as far as I can gather, were meant to accelerate the process from a few hours (or a day) to just a few minutes.

>Blonsky, Bucky, and those 5 HYDRA test subjects all lacked the Vita-Ray treatment so no shit they're mentally unstable.

They weren't mentally unstable. Erskine says that the serum enhances you beyond physically. It makes your deepest personality traits all the more stronger as well. It solidified Steve's moral code, it made Schmidt completely megalomaniacal, it made Blonsky crave for greater physical prowess and it made the Hydra kill-squad more violent prone. Bucky's really the only enigma there because he's been subject to decades of brainwashing and psychological abuse.

Why wasn't Hank the main character? Does anybody even like Scott? I feel like he was only chosen to be the MCU Ant-Man because of how completely inoffensive he is.

>I feel like he was only chosen to be the MCU Ant-Man because of how completely inoffensive he is.
That's basically why. Disney was deathly afraid of casuals googling Hank Pym and finding out he was a wife-beater. That's a big no-no in today's society.

It's also because Edgar Wright insisted on adapting "To Steal an Ant-Man" which featured Lang so much that even when he was dropped, Marvel retained elements of it.

>Bucky's really the only enigma there because he's been subject to decades of brainwashing and psychological abuse.
Yeah, I really feel awful for Bucky. Unlike Cap, he got his decades robbed by becoming a HYDRA guinea pig and later their super-assassin that gets defrosted whenever they need him.

I-I liked Scott.

I liked Scott too. Paul Rudd did a great job, but it's sorta disappointing that Hank Pym didn't get a chance to be on the big screen as the headliner. I mean, he's a founding Avenger. If it weren't for Hank's suggestion that himself, Janet, Iron Man, Thor, and Hulk band together, there'd be no Avengers in 616.

>Ant-Man and Wasp would have been in the first Avengers movie if Edgar Wright didn't take so damn long

I know. That really pisses me off because can you imagine Giant-Man kicking those Chitauri ships and other nifty shit?

I can imagine the whole "I'm always angry" bit with the Hulk transform could've been replaced with the Giant-Man reveal.

Yep. We could've even had Giant-Man toss Hulk into the fray.

Biggest "what could have been" for me is maybe with Wasp covering the Token Gril angle, Black Widow could be less prominent, and maybe even Sharon could take her role in Winter Soldier so the eventual kiss with Cap would feel less forced

>The Ant-Man treated Pym with more respect than his entire life in the comics. I really hope Ant-Man & the Wasp gives us more flashbacks. Especially Janet during their operative days for SHIELD.
Something I would love to see is if the flashbacks run along with the movie, like it's telling two stories and the flashbacks could be a movie in it's own right, a short movie at least. Would be awesome to get a full length Hank Pym Ant Man storyline, especially since they have the cgi technology to make him young for the duration of it.
It could have a parallel theme of Scott and Hope vs Hank and Janet, giving meaning to the Ant-Man and the Wasp title.

I loved Scott, you need someone likable to play against Hank's harder edge.

Oh yeah. Having 2 women on the team would've changed things up.

>It could have a parallel theme of Scott and Hope vs Hank and Janet, giving meaning to the Ant-Man and the Wasp title.
Seeing how Janet is the new Wasp, I think this is what Disney is gonna do in the next film. We'll have flashbacks to Hank and Janet juxtaposed with Scott and Hope.

I hope they choose a good actress for Janet.

Same here, but being a Pym fan can be insufferable sometimes. At least Michael's Hank was pretty cool and was an important character.

They should've made Hank more evil. Remember how the movie tied itself in knots to justify why he didn't just let Hope wear the suit? The real reason is of course because the movie was called "Ant Man" not "Ant Lady", but it the movie it's because he can't bear to lose her after her mother's death, which just comes off disingenuous. They should have had him say that he wants Scott to do it because he doesn't care if Scott dies, unlike Hope.

Douglas said if they bring back Janet in the sequel, he thinks Catherine Zeta-Jones should play her.

But Hank isn't evil.

of course he would

He's a little evil.

They did say it though, Scott tells Hope that he is expendable.

Are they gonna say she didn't age in the Quantum realm to explain why she's so much younger than him?

He's not even a little evil. For all the mistakes he's made, I don't think any of them can be attributed to malice.

It's too bad we didn't get her in her prime because Mask of Zorro era Zeta-Jones is diamond making stuff.

Is there a problem with her now?

That's a pretty valid explanation if you think about it. Because wouldn't Janet have starved/dehydrated to death or something for over 3 decades.

Janet would be in her late 30's/early 40's I imagine. Probably the same age or a few years younger Hank was in 1987. MCU Hank was born in 1944 so he was 43 in that Soviet missile crisis. Zeta-Jones is 47 right now so she's not too old to plausibly play a Janet whose been stuck in the Quantum realm.

It's hinted that the Pym Particles made Hank unstable in the past (hence why he takes all those pills and why he told Lang about the helmet that protects the user from its effects). So I imagine younger Hank might have acted as nutty as Darren Cross, but managed to nip it in the bud and treated the problem.

She is just an older woman now and plastic surgery made some things more noticeable that wouldn't be if she hadn't tried to fight her aging so much.

She looks better for her age but she still looks her age more or less.

Hollywood tends to cast women of normal motherly ages as grandmothers. So we'll never get a Zeta-Janet

why does he need a glove on his robo arm?

metal probably has shit grip

No, one of the reasons why I think ant man is one of the weaker MCU films next to strange

>Mask of Zorro era Zeta-Jones is diamond making stuff.

I'd reserve that more for when she was in The Phantom.

That's some very strange taste but I respect your opinion.

Probably because they don't want Downy to be the only old guy

Scott is pointless and not a as interesting as young Hank

We all know Bucky is gonna get a vibranium arm thanks to Wakanda when he gets defrosted. I wonder how well that would work in terms of gripping?

>Hollywood tends to cast women of normal motherly ages as grandmothers. So we'll never get a Zeta-Janet
But Marisa Tomei...

They're a handful of women that aged well and took to their surgeries well and survived to tell about it in their 50s and 60s.

The problem with plastic surgery is they need to keep doing shit to themselves to keep it looking somewhat natural. Their lives become quroboros.

While I disagree with you, I can see where you're coming from.

I honestly had ZERO faith in Ant-Man and it was surprisingly fun. This and Guardians proves that Disney is willing to take risks AND make a good movie out of the source material; something WB should be doing.

>I wonder how well that would work in terms of gripping?

They'll probably apply some kind of plastic/gel-like padding on the palm and fingertips.

It would appear that nobody in Hydra decided to give him an upgrade after 50 years.

I was talking about the Hollywood thing. You really think someone like Catherine Zeta-Jones could not pass off as the time dilated wife of Hank Pym?

They have to get Kate Beckinsale to play Janet. She would be perfect to play Hope's mother.

It's pretty damned impressive that arm is more than 50 years ago. I wonder how well Stark tech compares to what HYDRA produced over the years.

OH GOD THIS

how do you know no one upgraded it in 50 years? I think the best we can say is it doesn't look like it was upgraded since 1991

All I know is, if/when marvel gets the Fantastic Four back, I want them to make an FF movie as a 1960s period piece similar to most of the 1940s first Cap movie and bits of the 1960s/70s Ant-Man movie.

You cannot divorce the FF from the space age without losing something vital IMO. Reed is *the* scientist-hero archetype, that short-lived time after WW2 when we saw scientists as larger-than life heroes. Ever watch This Island Earth? Or at least the MST3K parody? Scientists were something like rock stars at the time, and if you remove that from Reed you lose the foundation of the storyline.

And Ben is damn near Chuck Yeager, the proto-astronaut hero.

Take these two out of the zeitgeist of the 50s/60s and the FF just falls apart. It loses something when we get the Ultimate-take of the FF being the first dimensional explorers. There is no resonance there for us compared to the flavor of the 60s space race and the FF being the first humans in space.

>how do you know no one upgraded it in 50 years?

Because we see him choke the shit out of a doctor with it in a brief flashback in TWS. In the same flashback, Zola himself tranqs Bucky just after he chokes the guy.

Fox isn't giving up the movie rights to Fantastic Four, if only to piss off Disney.

Well they have a decision to make... do they let the rights expire and revert back to Marvel, do they do a rights sharing deal with Marvel, or do they risk tends of millions of dollars on another movie in order to keep the rights. I personally think they'll want the rights sharing deal, the question is will Marvel?

Why can't we get a Netflix series with Hank and Janet in the Cold War?

Because MCU doesn't do Netflix.

...

Yeah, okay it is. I fell for it.

They risked tons of money as of a year ago to do F4 2015 movie.

Why would they change their mind after massive success of deadpool, Logan and tv critics love Legion, and now they have a Singer Tv pilot in development.

So what makes you think they would want a 'rights' share deal with Marvel when they released a massive bomb to keep the rights. So where are you getting your insight beyond some kind of fantasy? Articles? Any evidence at all? anywhere?

It's true though. The movies are overseen by Feige while Netflix is overseen by Loeb and Perlmutter.

was referring to as bait. Not .

But it's true. Marvel Studios produces the MCU. Marvel Entertainment produces the TV and Netflix shows.

ANTS

>Erskine says that the serum enhances you beyond physically
I'm pretty sure that was him romanticizing it. Everyone else flipping out was implied to be due to imperfect/non-stabilized versions of the formula, and Bucky was stated to have simply been "experimented on". The "they flipped out" stuff happened that way in the comics, and it doesn't make sense to be a different story in the MCU.

>The Ant-Man treated Pym with more respect than his entire life in the comics

jesus christ why do people that don't read comics talk about comics?

>So what makes you think they would want a 'rights' share deal with Marvel when they released a massive bomb to keep the rights.

You say that like ate the losses on purpose. Why do you think they want the rights in the first place? For the prestige? No, they want them to make money. If the franchise isn't making them money though, why would they risk tens of millions of dollars again just to retain rights that aren't profitable for them? Because that's what they're going to have to do in a few years when the rights will be about to revert back to Marvel again.

It's true though. The movies are overseen by Feige while Netflix is overseen by Loeb and Perlmutter.
What's your point? He was talking about a series, not a movie, and the series are all part of the MCU in any case.

They raped him using Ultron, Avengers academy shit on him, theres the whole beating your wife page, I'm sure a lot more examples could be produced.

No, I was referring to as bait.

They did eat losses on purpose just to keep the rights, you forget the F4 rights also Include Galactus, Doom, Kang, and a few other things. They know how popular Doom is, they would shit their own pants again just to keep the villains for down the road usage.

To put it into perspective, F4 became such a shitwreck that they changed core team for the movie not even a third of the way through shooting, had producers taking over for director, and then completely mangled what was shot into something new and put it out there, and they did reshoots on shit to try and salvage it a little.

So they doubled down on something to keep the rights, that shows me they would cut their own nose off, multiple times. Until capeshit bubble burst's, they will save it for down the road to try again.

F4 has huge upside potential and they know it.

Fantastic Four is in a much worse state than Spider-Man was when Sony agreed to do a rights-sharing deal.

This,
Pym was my favorite character because he was a screw-up that kept on trying, and he was talented, just not as much as the other Avengers. He had to keep stride with giants.

Marvel just kept beating him down until he was a broken character, now he's Ultron, and I stopped caring. I've moved on. I can only watch Pym be abused for so long.