Why does Marvel get shit for having diverse legacy heroes when DC has been doing the same thing with the most famous...

Why does Marvel get shit for having diverse legacy heroes when DC has been doing the same thing with the most famous superhero of all time?

Not a legacy.

They didn't get rid of Clark Kent as Superman to introduce Chinese Superman, they both existed at the same time.

One, not a legacy or replacement.

Two, it's all about the execution. Marvel's problem isn't the legacies, or even the forced diversity. Their problem is that their books are written like shit.

What I love about New Super-Man is that he is literally Chinese knockoff Superman, yet at the same time, because it's an actual good story, it works great

that's good writing

New-Supes
>Not legacy
>Well executed
>Incorporates Chinese mythology well into the core of his powers

New Falcon
>Random border crossing Mexican experimented on to be an actual bird person which leads to a horrible design
>Used as political propaganda by Spencer, putting him in stories involving riots
>Has no real personality other than "We're oppressed!"

Because Gene Luen Yang is a much better and successful writer than the hacks writing Marvel's legacy characters.

Because diverse legacy heroes are not bad and, in fact, DC has perfected the art of it as they've been doing it longer. Marvel is just really obnoxious with their promotion of new characters and they don't have good creators to even treat the characters well. Like right now DC has cute black genius girls but they don't shove them in your face. At Marvel they have to be ABSOLUTELY THE SMARTEST EVER.

This is incorrect unless you have a very strict definition of the word legacy that doesn't apply to most characters.

>Chinese Superman
>his name isn't Dat Ho

DC have had Legacy heroes for decades and spend ages bringing more diverse characters in and almost always having the older generation treated with respect or as a mentor to the new one.
Because they have the JSA they have system in-universe to facilitate the older characters helping the younger ones AND the newer characters don't have to carry a title alone as a result.

Marvel did most of theirs waaaay too fast(a bunch at the same time doesn't look or feel organic) and usually dumped the old ones as Nazis or sent them to Dimension Y forever.

Because DC actually has good writers.

>good story (most important)
>is his own character
>not a legacy
>Clark Kent still around, doing his thing uninterrupted
>does not try to diminish original Superman in a shallow attempt at self promotion
>actually incorporates its culture into the story in a way that is genuine and interesting, not just half-baked hashtag bait
>does not use said culture as a crutch, because the story and character stand on their own merits

Marvel's fundamental problem is that their editorial is 'I wonder what would happen if I dragged my ballsack across this broken glass?' level stupid.

Most Sup Forumsmrades are not Sup Forumslacks, we just call shit what it is, and Marvel Comics is 90% shit. No amount of perceived privilege invalidates the truth.

There's that, and there's also the fact that Marvel is trying to do it all at the same time.

Take a look at the most popular Marvel characters:

Spiderman: is currently Peter, but recently it was SpOck, and also there's Miles Morales running around as Spidey (without the development he had in the Ultimate universe), while Peter is trying to be Tony Stark.

Wolverine: Logan is dead, X-23 is Wolverine, Sabretooth and an alternate Logan are also filling the role.

Captain America: Replaced by the former Falcon. Steve is around also as Cap, but is secretly evil.

Iron Man: Tony is in a weird coma, Riri Williams is replacing him, and Doc Doom is trying to also.

Thor: Replaced by Jane "Whor" Foster, real Thor running around as Odinson

Hulk: Banner is dead, replaced by Amadeus Cho

X-Men in general: they attempted to replace them with Inhumans, didn't work. However, both are largely ruined by now.

Ms. Marvel: Replaced by Kamala. This one is well received, because (I'm told) it was well executed.

Cap Marvel's title gets passed around so much that I'm not gonna count it on this one.

So if you're coming from the movies, or returning to see the characters you used to read a few years ago, you'll find that almost all the big names, and a hell of a lot of the smaller ones, are either someone else, or radically different from the ones you knew.

And if you complain, you're accused of racism, sexism, etc.

He didn't replace Superman for one, and he's actually a character and not a pandering machine that acts like they're perfect. The only good legacy character right now is Sam Alexander and that's because the new writer actually made him interesting and fun.

Because Kal-El/Clark Kent is still around and still actively Superman in some capacity. Kong Kenan is a Chinese knockoff calling himself the "Super-Man."

When Marvel does legacies, they toss the predecessors aside. When DC does them, the predecessor is almost always a big part of their successor's life (see: Flash family) and why they have the title.

Because that is vey much a new character who is in universe pushed a a sort of legacy character.
Of course they're doing some serious legacy character digging in that comic but all-new all-Chinese Superman isn't legacy.

>When Marvel does legacies, they toss the predecessors aside.
This is another big problem. The only time I can really think of when DC did it was with Jamie Reyes, which was definitely criticised at the time. Then people warmed up to it because the book was genuinely good.

With Marvel, the only one I can think of right off that did it closer to the DC way was Chulk, who is one of the few actual legacies in the traditional sense, because Banner still featured quite a bit in the book. Then Bendis stupidly killed him off for shock value in CW2, which made absolutely no sense.

>New Falcon
I didn't even know there was a new falcon.

My god, he looks horrid.

Just a shirtless mutated mexican dude...

Because he is not a legacy, he is a Chinese knock-off.

First, it's execution of the characters. Second it's execution of the plot. Third It's execution of the setting.

Fourth is avoiding boring, predictable political bullshit. Nothing wrong with politics, but the big two are as lock step and politically narrow as a klan rally. And if you're doing this shit for political reasons, it's boring, predictable, and usually insultingly racist.

Legacy is not really important, except that continuity will snap back for any big enough character, and that they tend to crap on the original when the make the legacy. Cho will have to do something when Banner comes back. The only reason why miles doesn't have his own unique name is fucking Bendis's fat ass outweighing even the marketing dudes.

That nobody gives a fuck about Carol Captain Marvel makes Kamala less likely to step on any toes.

It wasn't until I read this post that it hit me how much of this is happening AT THE SAME TIME. And it's like, it's not been quick? The Thor thing has been going on for years.

We have:
>2 Spider-men (not counting clones)
>2 Wolverines
>2 Captains America
>2 Iron Men/Heart/People/whatever
>2 Thors
How exactly Marvel thinks this is a thing good or even remotely acceptable?

because DC doesn't kill off their characters and attempt to replace them with minoroties.

3 Spider-Men. Miguel is still running around
4 Captain Americas. Roberta and Dani Cage are running around as well

Well Kenan gets his powers from Superbro so you are half right.

because it's well written and isnt "take THAT, white people" like most marvel is now, MS. Marvel go a pass early on because it was very good as well.

We also got Superdad and Lois back at the same time. So, we got our cake and our diversity. Nothing was forced onto us. No one from DC went on Twitter demanding that we accept a non-white male or they'll call us names. And both comics are actually good.

So basically, they literally did everything right here and only a Marvelfag can find fault in their work.

Fucking time-travelers!

Having multiple legacy characters isn't bad. DC has a lot of them. Having multiple legacy characters introduced at the same time period is a problem because the reader doesn't have time to get used to them.

>The only time I can really think of when DC did it was with Jamie Reyes, which was definitely criticised at the time.
Wasn't Ted a little... uh, dead at the time to actively appear in the comic?

DC has a long tradition of legacy heroes

That's what means when he said a legacy was tossed aside.

Although arguably that happened with Ted and Dan in the 60's comics, but that's partly because the Silver Age version of Dan didn't get enough readers other than GRRM and maybe a few others.

That's my point. Ted was dead (see: tossed aside) and Jaime was a replacement.

Not that Jamie was really a legacy for Ted since he was more a legacy for Dan Garrett, but still. People were smarting from Ted getting killed off for shock value and then Jamie comes around as a new hispanic teen Blue Beetle, so the initial reaction to him wasn't that great.

That's closer to how Marvel is handling their "legacies" now than how DC traditionally does it, but the difference is that Jamie wasn't being pushed for diversity points by a shitty tumblr/DA tier creative team. His book was good and people turned around on him as a character fairly quickly as a result.

Also, Marvel gives us no reason to care about them.

Miles is shit and lacks any reason for me to care about him. To be honest, I probably never will either. He's been shoved in so many books so hard that at this point I kinda find the character repulsive. Like that one kid in class who'd always interrupt the teacher to ask a question, but he was just asking questions for the sake of asking questions to the teacher and would stop.

There's also the fact that Jamie eventually got in contact with the Blue Beetle legacy and showed respect and admiration for the ones before him.
WWTKD?

Marvel pays people to talk about their diverse legacy heroes. DC just keeps making them.

Kenan is not a legacy character, both in-story and out he's a cheap knockoff of a character who's alive, well, and active

It's like saying John Stewart is a legacy character to Hal Jordan because they're both GLs, when they've been coworkers most of the time. There's no intention of passing a torch....as far as we know, anyway.

Legacy heroes are just heroes who wouldn't exist without the original in-universe and are influenced by that previous one. Kenan as Super-Man relies on the context of a Superman already existing.

Yes, every GL is a legacy besides Alan because they take up after previous corps members.

You know one thing that really bothers me about Marvel? When they say "diversity" they really mean "brown lesbian that lives in America (probably in New York)".
>inb4 "B-But comics are a American media made by Americans for Americans!"
Fine, but don't pretend that you're the champion of diversity when all your stories are about your own country and culture.
Hell, even fucking Alpha Flight, the only fucking thing Marvel Canada had going for it ended up absorbed by SHIELD and is being lead by Captain Carol.
I don't even remember the last time we saw Excalibur.

>I don't even remember the last time we saw Excalibur.
Is that even a thing anymore, after MI-13?

This a Chinese-American writer writing a Chinese Superman set in China where the character is re-interpreted through Chinese 'lens' (Tiagram S, Chi, Government Control, etc.)

Marvel would make Superman a 20 something 'ethnic' girl in New York and call it a day.

Yang is a better writer than anyone Marvel employs

>The only time I can really think of when DC did it was Jamie Reyes

A better example would be Kyle Rayner. They ruined the entire GL mythos, Hal specifically, trying to get Rayner over and everybody hated him for it

>ruined the entire GL mythos
that's Johns fault for making the emotional spectrum so gay
Hal is a faggot you're gay if you like him

I just don't like blacks or women to be honest. Whenever I see a black with a white woman I think "you deserve each other". I'm only 70% white so I don't even have a legacy to protect. Seeya.

>people actually think Kenan is not a legacy

Damn, people, read the comic. In-universe, he was created to replace Superman when he died. He's a deliberate attempt by the Chinese government at making a legacy hero.

You wanna know why DC doesn't get as much shit? Look at Kenan. He's a fuckup who can barely control his powers. He's brash, arrogant and makes a lot of mistakes which means he has to work hard for the respect of others (Even then his friends poke fun at him). Hes clearly not Superman

Now look at some body like Riri . Super awesome at everything, everybody loves her, there's no struggle and they imply that shes better than Iron Man

That's the difference

These

That's a good point. One of the reasons I'm enjoying New Super-Man so much is because it's the ONLY title from either of the big two that takes place in a country beside America.

And while it's not required for a writer to be the same race as their character, it's still nice to see DC hire an actual Chinese writer to handle Chinese Superman.

He's talking about before johns tho.

You're trying too hard

>The only time I can really think of when DC did it
Green Lantern in the 90s

although I guess Hal was less tossed aside and more completely fucked over for several years

If Marvel writers had their hands on Kenan, they would opened his debut issue with nothing but panels where other superheroes kiss his ass and praise him as better than Green Day and Linkin Park combined. And his backstory would've been he was kicked out of school because his 300 IQ was intimidating the rest of the kids.

>Hulk: Banner is dead, replaced by Amadeus Cho
You are forgetting that Walters is going by Hulk now

I don't know where the Planet hulk dudes or Doc Samson fucked off to though

Two Hawkguys

Not sure if you'd count them but I'm pretty sure Lang and O'Grady are both still Ant-Man

He's Chinese-American and knew very little about traditional China before he started prepping to write this book. He's an extremely gifted writer and he always does his homework, which is rare among comic book "professionals", and it's just blind luck that he happened to be picked instead of some other chink that knows shit-all about his heritage just because of racists like you that think only people you group under a race banner can write about that race, when it really has more to do with knowledge of the culture.

Also, the first page would take six hours to read because Bendis stuffed it full of hundreds of word balloons.

Holy shit, someone's easily triggered.

>racists like you that think only people you group under a race banner can write about that race

Oh, that must be what I meant when I wrote this:

>it's not required for a writer to be the same race as their character

Slow day on Sup Forums, huh?

O'Grady died and has been replaced by an LMD with his memories going by Black Ant

It was a really smart choice that the first time we see Kenan, he's acting like a jerk. It's just the complete opposite of how you'd expect a character named Superman to be introduced. It also kills the usual "Superman is too perfect" argument from page one.

O'Grady died.
An evil LMD of him was running around as Black Ant.

>now, I'm not racist, but...
Good work fucko covering your tracks

when did this happen

Ok, so just like Cap America, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Wolverine, Spiderman, Thor, Iceman, Beast, Angel, maybe Scarlet Spider, etc, there's 2 of them.

Wonderful.

I fucking hate this "strategy" of Marvel's. For the last decade or so, it's been gimmick after gimmick. Heroes divided! Villains are in power! Everyone is Thor. Everyone is Hulk. Everyone is Spiderman. Everyone is Phoenix. Inhumans! Monsters! Now everyone comes in pairs.

The Warbound were forgotten so far that it HURT.

And Sampson died, but then wasn't dead, and is now hanging out with Carol or something.

Tail end of Remender's Secret Avengers.
Wasn't great.

Black Ant was also in that ANAD Illuminati book that was immediately cancelled.

The last time I can remember seeing the Warbound was in that CW2 tie in about Banner's funeral. They've been largely forgotten before and since.

Is it weird that I can't tell if this page is the original or one of Illuminated comics edits?

Arguably when they did Civil War/Secret Invasion/Dark Reign/Siege it wasn't something done within the last five years at the time. Like for instance, Civil War was out in 2006, right? There wasn't any event like it since 2001. Compare that to what happened after Superior Spider-Man, where you suddenly had Axis, Superior Iron Man, and Infamous Iron Man in the last five years.

Kyle wasn't created for diversity though. He's still a white guy (later on they ret-conned him to be half-hispanic, but it's never brought up and I think half the people who've written him aren't even aware of it).

The thing with Kyle was just DC Editorial deciding they didn't want intergalactic police force Green Lantern Corps anymore. They wanted to make it so The Green Lantern is just one person. So Hal gets his hometown blown up, goes crazy and decides to steal all the Green Lantern power for himself, kills the Guardians, kills a bunch of his fellow GLs, and makes himself into a Green Energy God so he can remake the Universe the way he wants it. And the last surviving Guardian makes one last ring and gives it to some random dude so he can maybe try to stop Hal.

Old GL fans were angry, but at the same time Green Lantern genuinely was at a really low point in sales and popularity when this happened. Kyle did bring in new readers and carried the mantle for 10 years before Johns came along and put everything back the way it was before.

Funny thing, Illuminated Comics made this page long before they even heard about the new America Chavez comic. Just a bizarre coincidence.

But hispanic just means he has spaniard ancestry

spaniards are white

checkmate, liberals

I am still of the opinion that the Guardians got what was coming to them.

Yeah the Kyle shakeup wasn't about diversity but more following the 90's trends to shake up a low-performing book. Like for instance while Superman was dead there were the four Supermen, while Batman's back was broken, Azrael replaced him, Artemis became Wonder Woman, Wally West was hinted at possibly dying and being replaced by Impulse... But then it had two swerves, Wally chose Jesse Quick as his replacement, and then it turned out Wally "died" and came back in a short time. They really could've done a better way of making Kyle GL though.

Of course they did. That's not controversial at all.

>spaniards are white

>It's just the complete opposite of how you'd expect a character named Superman to be introduced.

IIRC in an interview Yang said he took inspiration from the way early Superman was depicted in the 1930's/early 40's.

You have to support an accusation before you make it my omniphobic-genocidal-worse-than-Hitler-deluxe-nazi friend.

DC tried really hard to shake up the big-name League members during the 90s
>Azreal Batman
>4 Supermen
>Artemis Wonderwoman
>Orin Aquaman
>Walter West Dark Flash
>Kyle GL
>Connor Hawke GA
>Bloodwynd J'onn J'onzz

3/4 of those were awesome.

Don't forget 90s Doctor Fate.

It wasn't for diversity, no, but stuff like Jane Thor was just as much of a sales ploy

only two of those turned out any good and most of them are forgettable

That was better than expected.

Kyle didn't ruin the GL mythos
bringing Hal back did

...

thats not what legacy means you retard, if someone goes out and tries to be batman that doesn't make them automatically a legacy. Batwoman is not a legacy character.

>Marvel
>replaces their traditional characters with social justice legacy characters or forcefully transforms them into being one
>DC
>leaves classic heroes in place and ads separate SJW characters to exist separately and appeal to the fraction of the market that wants them while not alienating the vast majority of fans

Yeah, that's true. Say what you will about events like Infinite Crisis and Civil War, they had some build up, and they allowed time to cool down and breathe in the new status quo.

Now they haven't ended the current event and they're already telling you about the next 3 ones.

quick go get Grant Morrison to make a sequel JLA book with this line-up and HYPERCRISIS it up.

pretty sure getting rid of every single GL except one and either killing off the former GLC or giving them shitty new roles qualifies as ruining

To be fair, the GLC as a whole had died time or two before Emerald Twilight.

Ending isn't ruining.

Most of the weren't even dead, and the last half of Kyle's book was mostly about trying to rebuild the Corps anyway.

Bringing Hal back and creating the color spectrum fucked everything up. It would have been fine without those two things.

It got us Sinestro Corps War, even if you hate everything else, that's a win in my book.

Y-y-you too

Marvel replaces their heroes, DC doesn't.

Because DC does it right.

They don't cuck the real heroes and the "replacements" have ACTUAL characterization and not just "gurlpower" or "muh diversity".

>Hal isn't best GL meme
When will this pleb meme die?

Never because Alan is the best

>kenan is a lovable douchebag with a good heart and actually grows as a character
>capturing that chinese knock off angle perfectly
>worldbuilding in china
>that ww
>that alpaca
>still waiting for that lantern academy

Why is this comic so goooooooooooooood?!

I'm not sure if you're dissing Kyle or Green Arrow Jr here.