Just finished watching Return of the King for the first time in like a decade.
So I know they're going to Valinor, but the implication and allegory here is that they're they're basically passing into the "afterlife" and are dead right? I didn't notice in previous watchings in the film in the scene just before this, Frodo says it's been 4 years since their journey, but his health is getting worse and the wound he got from the Nazgul hasn't healed (and implied is getting worse), then the scene after is Frodo, Elves, Gandalf leaving Middle Earth forever.
Again lore wise, I know they're going to Valinor (which in lore is basically the elvish afterlife anyway), but does anyone agree that the actual implication here is that they're actually passing from this world to the afterlife and thus it's an allegory for death?
Sort of like in Kaguya, how she returns to the moon, is an allegory for how she most likely commits suicide.
Nearly cried watching this scene in the cinema when I was 11
Austin Jenkins
I think it was more to express that Frodo was done with life, and his story ends here. It signifies he's going to afterlife yes, but I think rather than suicide it just indicates that he's withdrawn from everybody else now in a literal sense. I think the RL equivalent would be literally this - people going off and travelling until they die. Maybe the fields are real. It doesn't matter. Life is over for Frodo regardless.
We're all heading to our death one way or another. Frodo's just done with life.
Michael Evans
The fact that the ending is an allegory for Death doesn't mean that in-universe they're actually dying.
That's what an allegory MEANS; it's a thematical parallel for a concept, not the actual concept spruced up.
Dominic Parker
Tolkien said in his letters that basically it's a purgatory where he can have finally some rest and respite before he dies for real. So is basically most accurate, Frodo is done with life, and goes to rest and die.
Angel Watson
>Valinor (which in lore is basically the elvish afterlife anyway)
wrong. Valinor is the home of the gods and most Elves. The halls of Mandos is where Elves go when they die.
Jackson Moore
I mean, yeah?
Valinor is basically just a stand in for heaven anyway.
It is also a subtle nod to the legend of the king under the hill, as in the Arthurian legend, that the hero and champion of the people goes off to a must deserved rest, always watching over the future generations,, ever vigilant should the hour of greatest need come and the need to rise again to defend the land and the people arises.
This is the juxtaposition to the ever present threat of the rise of evil, Mechior and servants like Sauron waiting to gather strength and destroy the world and it's peoples and sew chaos.
And indeed, the heroes sailing of into the great mystery is the fate of King Arthur from the legends as he is taken to Avalon after he falls for the last time.
It is worth remembering that Tolkien did not complete his works before he died, and we don't really know what the fate of Frodo and Bilbo and all of the others may hae ultimately been, or whether we would have seen them ever again in future tales.
Didn't Tolkien have another hobbit book planned for the future or uncompleted?
I am not a Tolkien expert personally.
Matthew Peterson
*sow chaos
Jordan Brown
God, that scene alone is worth 10 Oscars.
Carter Jackson
Ian Mckellen is amazing.
Austin Jones
No, you fucking retards. It's specifically stated that death is the gift Iluvatar gave to humans, Valinor is not heaven.
Evan Miller
So Tolkien was very very religious if you didn’t know, the good boy who went to services every week.
Rather than death I’d compare the travel to Valinor to how the Prophet Elijah was taken to heaven through a chariot of fire on a whirlwind. Frodo, Gandalf, and Bilbo were so holy for taking such an utterly daunting task that they didn’t have to go through the pain of death.
Tyler Fisher
Lord of the Rings is a finished work. Yes, Christopher Tolkien helped with appendices and piecing together The Silmarillion, or providing the "glue" that holds it together. But in no way is there something missing, or incomplete, in Lord of the Rings.
Joshua Brooks
Perhaps I did not make myself clear, I meant that he had not finished his overall works as a writer, and had possibly not finished with those characters, not that the Lord Of The Rings was unfinished.
Ryan Morris
it sounds like you’re conflating the Arthurian legend with the King under the Mountain which is a German fairytale not Britannic
Lucas Hughes
I cant endure this AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Josiah Garcia
the fate of souls is ultimately in the hands of Illuvatar, it's the one thing he doesn't let anyone else fiddle with, not even the Valar
the elves (and apparently half-elves) have an eternal material existence, provided that they don't get shanked, whereas everyone else dies normally
but yes it would make sense that the elves crossing the ocean are going to the same place that non-elf souls go, but it's never explicitly detailed
Blake Torres
Intredasting, but I was more equating both and many more legends worldwide with what he was expressing with the end of the characters in the story.
You can be sure that the germanic legend had it's roots in some even more ancient culture, the same way the crucified martyr legend predates Christ and was told as a legend by earlier cultures.
Jeremiah Torres
He planned a fourth book but stopped after realizing it was a bad idea
Cameron Murphy
Why did he think that? Did he say what is was going to be about?
David Myers
This. Valinor is basically the land of the Gods who weaved Arda into existence. Just a shithole for immortals to loiter around in
Bentley Fisher
>lotr thread if you don't mind i'm just going to post some scenes now. thank you for understanding.
It was basically going to be a reiteration of Mein Kampf but at the time he deemed it too risky to publish such a novel
Evan Peterson
Whatever else happens in the future, we have the books and we have the LOTR trilogy. Nobody can take that away.
Mason Barnes
Aren't the BBC doing a LOTR series with a super multicultural cast? All they'd have to do is buy the rights and whatever they say becomes canon. >Leeroygon >Son of ?
Hunter Martin
it's amazon i think. >with a super multicultural cast we don't know who's cast yet.
>All they'd have to do is buy the rights and whatever they say becomes canon. so?
Aiden Green
there is no allegory or real-world comparison other than good vs evil in lotr
Samuel Lewis
So it could end up like all the SW fags who had their precious EU shat on in favour of nig nog stormtroopers.
Daniel Clark
Why didn't the eagles ride gandalf into mordor and sling the ring into Mt. Doom using a slingshot?
Landon Green
doesn't matter. the books and film trilogy exist on their own. i couldn't give a shit if people mangle the material from here on out.
Noah Reyes
it's not really allegory as they're literally going to Valinor, where Hobbits, as a type of Man, wouldn't normally go to in their afterlife.
Justin Ramirez
how does that cgi look a million times better than anything in the hobbit? hollywood is such a fucking joke, big ass money laundering scheme
Jayden Bennett
I guarantee you'll get your panties in a twist if they fuck with LOTR. This entire site will be up in arms. It's like someone fucking your gf. She's still yours, you've fucked her before and you can fuck her when you want, but now some other cunt is busting a nut on her asshole and your just expected to deal with that.
Anthony Ward
how dramatic.
Carter Ross
Amazon can have its own universe/continuity just as Jackson has his.
Daniel Ortiz
There are times in the LotR triology where the CGI is sketchy. The moment where the Balrog leaps out of the fire is great, but I think it looks a bit weird when it pursuits the fellowship to the bridge. And it looks bad whenever they shrink and composit in the hobbits, instead of using some camera trick or a dwarf double. But watching the BTS footage, I was impressed by all the clever tricks they used. When Denethor is kicked into the pyre, the flames are real, but not actually there. They lit a fire on the side of the set, which was reflected on a glass panel put between the camera and the pyre.
Jace Jackson
>"I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men, it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless — while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors — like Denethor or worse. I found that even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow — but it would have been just that. Not worth doing."
Sebastian Miller
Frodo doesn't go to Valinor itself (it's implied that mortals wouldn't like it) but an island of the coast of Valinor, Tol Eressea. However it's still close enough to bring Frodo some much needed comfort. He lives the rest of his years in peace until he finally dies for real. He was done with middle-earth however, so I guess you could say that he "died" in that way. No mortal in LOTR ever became immortal since mortality was a gift bestowed upon humans by God, and no earthly power had the power or authority to take that away.
Carson Rogers
if you're gonna post the shadowfax scene, you gotta post one of the best chase scenes of all time: youtube.com/watch?v=e9K7fueW4Bk
Jeremiah Cook
>There are times in the LotR triology where the CGI is sketchy yea, but that's more because cgi always ages horribly; that shit looked fan-fucking-tastic at the time of release even so, lotr's cgi is still much more in good taste compared to hobbit, where everything looks so fucking rubbery
Grayson Walker
The halls of Mandos (small part of Valinor) are the afterlife, Valinor is "the promised lands" or some shit only Elves were allowed because muh master race or some shit
Nicholas Johnson
love that scene
James Cook
100% pure kino.
Wyatt Moore
>Valinor >a shithole
Valinor is litteraly the most beautiful place on Arda, you dumb nigger.
Bentley Walker
>allegory
Hudson Fisher
I watched the version of the Hobbit yesterday which condensed the three films into one film with less than half the total runtime. It still has its flaws but goddamn is it so much better than what we got. It’s a testament to how awful and pointlessly bloated the screenplay was that you can literally remove half of the scenes with no noticeable difference. No Radagast, no Sauron, no Legolas, no Alfrid, no be romanced, no love story, no barrel chase, no gold melting and no stupid cartoony bullshit. Turns it from 3 3/10s to one 7/10.
Hunter Gomez
where can I buy the bluray?
Luke Thomas
Fug that was meant to say necromancer
Brody Campbell
It’s free online m80
Jason Nguyen
good post
Michael Rivera
i didn’t want to say anything but yeah OP is a fucking illiterate retard
Samuel Nguyen
link?
I'm REALLY stupid and lazy
Jaxson Hill
Well then you can fuck off
Sebastian Martinez
>tolkien was a hack atleast he didn't write it
Austin Ross
Was there ever a better casting?
Brayden Bell
post the link you jew
Camden Young
>I was going to write A Song of Ice and Fire, but I thought it sucked so I didn't write it
Kek
Dominic Sullivan
Top fucking kek
Jace Bell
The speeches in these movies are the best, I love boromirs as well
Jordan Williams
>perfect all white cast Never again.
Easton White
>Sort of like in Kaguya, how she returns to the moon, is an allegory for how she most likely commits suicide.
Dont you fucking dare to mix up or compare that shit with tolkien's work
