The new Blade Runner is like The Matrix but if Neo were to die while saving Morpheus after finding out that he wasn't actually the chosen one. And it turns out one of those bald kids in the Oracles apartment was "the real" chosen one. See if the Matrix did that, it wouldn't be a stroke of genius or some sort of commentary. It would just be annoying and bad story telling. Ryan Gosling finding out he wasn't actually "the one" just sucked and it felt like a cheap way to pull at the heart strings of the audience. There was no reason to have the girl turn out to be the real "chosen one". It felt like the filmmakers were too afraid to tell a story in which a white guy was the protagonist in 2017.
Furthermore the new Blade Runner just felt like it completely misunderstood what themes made the original Blade Runner good. While the old one was an incredibly powerful metaphor for existence and mortality, this new one amounted to nothing more than a super hero revenge film.
In the original: robots worry about the how short their lives are and seek out their god only to find out their god can’t do anything about their own mortality. In frustration, they kill their god and realize it still changes nothing. They are still going to die and they are still living in fear of a world that wants to destroy them. The final scene culminates in a primal cat and mouse game. Harrison Ford has no chance against Rutger Hauer, yet Rutger Hauer spares him because he values the passing on of his experiences (much like the Ring girl). Beautiful and profound.
In this new one: Ryan Gosling is lead to believe he is the chosen one, only to be told he isn’t. The love of his life dies and he is beat down by society. What does he do? He goes on an underwhelming rescue mission and dies doing it. But at least he got revenge and killed what amounted to a silly bond villain henchman (Luv). He dies on the stairs as Harrison Ford walks past him and meets the actual chosen one.
>Ryan Gosling finding out he wasn't actually "the one" just sucked and it felt like a cheap way to pull at the heart strings of the audience. There was no reason to have the girl turn out to be the real "chosen one". It felt like the filmmakers were too afraid to tell a story in which a white guy was the protagonist in 2017. lol
Luis Adams
ITT: Entitled white male is butthurt that a movie didn't reinforce the idea that the world revolves around him, a narrative he has been given since birth to encourage him and he is uncomfortable to have challenged.
Ryder Wood
but he WAS the protagonist you retard
Matthew Gray
I agree that the twist was bullshit. Luckily the "twist" is really low on the list of "important plot points". Then I stopped reading by the end of the first paragraph.
Henry Bell
The matrix was actually passable though 2049 not so much
Eli Phillips
>robots fuck off
Julian Edwards
Woman or just American, OP?
Matthew Ramirez
no actually I love films with female protagonists. Terminator and Alien are some of my favorite films! :) I was more annoyed by the structure of this film and I suspect there were political reasons they did it. There were something like 15 producers and I think it was a situation in which there were too many cooks. Hopefully that gives you some insight on where I'm coming from :)
Elijah Wood
Replicant is a synonym for Android, which is a synonym for robot... so yes >robots
Carter Allen
i dont understand your question
Christopher Bell
Okay so there is no "chosen one" dummy. She's a girl in a bubble who constructs memories of birthday parties. She's not going to lead any armies.
BR2049 is nothing like The Matrix and that's a good thing because it just descended into capeshit biblical allegory. This is Blade Runner. There's no Jesus and there are no heroes. Just the occasional good Joe.
Jackson Fisher
This
Ian Sanders
No shes not going to lead any armies and that's why its a shame she turns out to be the real one while he fucks off and dies. The entire film Ryan is seeking out whether or not hes a real boy like Pinocchio. In Pinocchio, the puppet becomes a real boy. In this he doesn't. Real boy/chosen one/the special(lego movie)= they serve the same purpose within story telling and the hero's journey. I would be Ok with him not turning out to the be the chosen one if it served any real thematic purpose, but it didnt. In the first movie, everything had an existential purpose. I dont feel like it was necessary or did much or made anyone "think". Get waht im saying?
Camden Martinez
>In this he doesn't You completely misunderstood the whole ending of the movie.
Jason Gray
I'd like to hear the ending in your words then
Lucas Roberts
Call me a fucking brainlet but as I understand it, Replicants are biological beings, only synthesized? They are essentially humans just their building material is higher quality allowing them to be stronger physically and have better processing brain power? Or are they made of of silicon or something and just appear like humans and have an actual computer in the place of their brain? That description of "Replicants being with human flesh" brings forth images of Arnold's Terminator. So what are they?
Tyler Lopez
>I would be Ok with him not turning out to the be the chosen one if it served any real thematic purpose, but it didnt Jesus dicks, did the line "We all wish it was us" go over your head? Did the scene the hologram Joi go over your head? It's to make you question what it means to be human or to be special. K didn't turn out to be a "real boy" but he was still a very human character, even Joi is ambiguously human, the point is that the dividing line between an automaton that acts just like a human and an actual human is blurred.
Sebastian Davis
>I would be Ok with him not turning out to the be the chosen one if it served any real thematic purpose, but it didnt How can someone look at films at such a stupidly surface-level way. Yes, turns out that he's not the "chosen one" and is not special in any way possible. Then in amidst all of that existential crisis he chooses to deny both Wallace and the rebellion (who wanted to use K as a tool for their own goals) and makes the first truly individual choice of his life by reuniting a father with his daughter and finally become "special" like he always wanted to, more human than humans.
Daniel Williams
>Ryan Gosling finding out he wasn't actually "the one" just sucked and it felt like a cheap way to pull at the heart strings of the audience. Stopped reading right there.
Camden Kelly
yeah thats all neat and dandy that he finds out he isn't special. And that his actions help someone else out. And robots are similar. I totally understand those things, but what I'm saying is that those themes are specifically weak in comparison to the first film. Finding out you aren't special is just some shallow french nihilism. I'm not sure its a story that really NEEDS to be told. It's like I get the ending. I'm just saying its weak af compared to the original.
Samuel Thomas
What a bunch of autist word vomit.
Liam Sanchez
They're biological robots.
Grayson Morgan
How is it weak? The first one explores the "What does it mean to be a human being" and this one explores "Does it matter" part. Does it matter if you are programmed or born, does it matter if the love you're experiencing is programmed or not etc.
Jaxon Williams
sure is fucking REDDIT in here
Bentley Hughes
>Finding out you aren't special is just some shallow french nihilism More like realism. >I'm just saying its weak af compared to the original That's just like, your opinion, man.
Ian Adams
In the first ones the robots know they are life. They are fucking confident about it. They want nothing more than to keep living. Mortality is a horrendous concept to them. They seek out their creator and demand more life only to realize its not possible and they fucking kill their creator.
Based on your words: the robot in this one, the robot in question is like an angsty teenager that's been reading too much Camus. He realizes that his love isn't real.
I find that the original has way more interesting questions.
Lucas Mitchell
>babbies asks for le chosen one arcs instead of actually facing the dread that is existence
Colton Brooks
reconciling mortality > working up some self esteem
Brayden Richardson
The robot in this one is questioning his entire existence and actually fully starts believeing he is the "special" one until he learns the true state of things and then transcends his programming by becoming "special" at the end with his own actions. Same with Luv, she wants to be special just like K, "the best one". And he knew from the start that his love isn't "real", he probably saw the Joi ad a thousand times already, that scene isn't the first time he sees the ad. But it becomes just as real from the interaction with the program like with any other human being.
You can like the themes of the original more, but stop making dumb overly general claims which could be easily made for the original too.
Bentley Torres
I'm not asking for a "chosen one" arc. 2049 presents a chosen one arc and then just pulls a "gotchya" at the end. Its cheap
Babies name call. Try arguing on the merits of your ideas next time;)
Brandon Flores
exploring what it means to love and to be an individual > angery robots mad at their expiration date
Joseph Clark
> The new Blade Runner is like The Matrix in that it is not
Noah Lopez
Replicants are mostly organic, you mongoloid. You can't peel off their skin and find a series of wires and circuits going BEEP BOOP.
They do call them skinjobs, but it's not like they are T-800's
Adam Rogers
>reddit spacing
Camden Long
hahah fair enough but those angery robots were so bad ass. cool action sequences; concise thesis. New one had some terrible pacing issues at the end. Luv was lame as fuck. She was like a bond villian henchman.
Elijah Barnes
>political reasons >he didn't get the fact that the twist was to show how insignificant K was, or how everything in his life from his lover to his memories to his very being is a fabrication.
what a pleb.
Brody Johnson
I don't think its a very hard concept to understand that androids and holograms are "a fabrication" like no shit XD
Leo Gomez
the entire point of the movie is that you can find your own meaning in life even if you're not the most important person in the world by making your own decisions and having agency
that's a much more uplifting, important, and relevant message than HURR DURR U DA CHOSEN ONE HURR
Ryder White
>cool action sequences Undisputably better in the sequel, no debate here.
> Luv was lame as fuck. She was like a bond villian henchman. If you look at it in the most surface-level way possible, sure. But her character is extremely detailed and tragic. Not just by the writing but in her subtle but powerful performance too. I won't bother typing out a whole essay so here's a good brief read on the tragic of her character rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/tears-of-a-machine-the-humanity-of-luv-in-blade-runner-2049
Jaxson Torres
>It felt like the filmmakers were too afraid to tell a story in which a white guy was the protagonist in 2017. I'm afraid it's kinda true, especially when U know how much of a cuck soyboi that fucking leaf is. It's funny tho that Sup Forums autists literally thought he was /theirguy/ just because of the waifu shit.
Carson Clark
>I'm not asking for a "chosen one" arc. What I'm saying is that: 2049 presents a chosen one arc and then just pulls a "gotchya" at the end. Its cheap
Jace Williams
>silly bond villain henchman (Luv). True also, and Leto was pretty ridiculous and edgy too.
Hudson Parker
Why is it cheap? I think the "chosen one" narrative is far cheaper and overdone.
Elijah Scott
Then how are you struggling?
Christian Ortiz
>Entitled white male is butthurt that a movie didn't reinforce the idea that the world revolves around him But it does tho, low test white male/Moshe/nigger, it does and everything you're using right now is thanks to the white civilzation, don't be so butthurt tho.
Grayson Cruz
>A replicant finds out his memories were fake in a world where all replicants have fake memories and have their identities meddled with all the time.
Its not cheap. If anything its expected.
Caleb Brooks
That's not true though. From the moment K learns about the birth he begins to question whether or not he's Deckard's child, but just because he's questioning whether or not he is the "miracle" or "the chosen one" doesn't mean the audience is led down a typical "chosen one" narrative path. In fact I would argue that it's never suggested that he is in fact the chosen one, just that there are a bunch of coincidences that could be evidence of him having had an organic birth or not (the audience is assumed to know that in the world of Blade Runner replicants have memories implanted within their minds)
Alexander Ross
So the article is pretty much saying that Luv is an Uncle Tom, incapable of change. And she's sad while she does it because she feels like a traitor to her own race. I mean that's a whatever character. She is still at her essence a bond villain henchman. The fact that she feels bad about it, just makes her ... spineless?
Oliver Lopez
>movie didn't have chosen one leading rebellion against tyranny
Feel free to choose literally any other movie next time
Oliver Sullivan
A bond villain henchman is none of those things, a bond villain henchman doesn't have any character traits to begin with.
Carson Allen
thats true and as a white american man, the world is constantly commenting and coming up with ideas on how we should act because everyone believes that "we're the ones in power"...... so for this film to have Ryan Gosling find out hes not actually special and the isolate pale red haired girl with lots of imagination is the "real" one..... is pretty much showing us where hollywood's ideology stands: white men have the power----> and they are handing it off to white women.
Charles Howard
still a lame character.... and pales in comparison to Rutger Hauer
Joseph Kelly
>The fact that she feels bad about it, just makes her ... spineless? >a programmed AI is spineless because, while realizing what she's doing is wrong and harmful to others like her, she's completely unable to go against her programming If you're retarded, sure, Luv is spineless.
Jonathan Martinez
>and pales in comparison to Rutger Hauer The Luv actor could act circles around Rutger Hauer. Roy Batty is a more engaging character, though.
Jacob Murphy
Can't really ITT with the second reply you mong
Ethan Hill
>a programmed AI is spineless because, while realizing what she's doing is wrong and harmful to others like her, she's completely unable to go against her programming
HAHAHAHAHAHA YOU SAID IT YOURSELF SHES LITERALLY PROGRAMMED TO BE SPINELESS YOU FUCKING MORON XD
Brayden Allen
You opened this entire argument with a firm stance against BR2049's decision to not focus on a chosen mary sue. Too late to backpedal now.
Nathaniel Lee
this, you can't compare the matrix with 2049 because they're totally different movies with totally different themes. The twist that goose wasn't the chosen one made the ending better.
Jackson Jones
I dont think you understand what a mary sue is. Like I get what youre saying but Mary Sue is the wrong term.
Jaxon Martin
Messiah trope, then.
Michael Adams
my point is: imagine the Matrix where Neo dies saving Morpheus and turns out not to be the chosen one. It would be a lame, cheap little switcharooo .... like the twist at the end of The Village "what a twist!" .... but because this movie distracts you with it's slow pace, people mistake it for intellectual or deep. When really the film falls apart in the third act. The ending could have been really powerful, but it wasnt and as a result its going to be a sad footnotes next to the original in the History of film.
Daniel Baker
>It would be a lame, cheap little switcharooo It would be if they were first making a movie where Neo actually was the Chosen One, then decided he actually wasn't at the end of filming and shot scenes where Neo dies and turns out he wasn't anything special after all. If the Matrix was built from the ground up with the thought that Neo wasn't actually special, but everyone believed he was, and the audience is lead to believe he is, then no, I don't think it would be lame, depending on the execution of course. >The ending could have been really powerful The ending was plenty powerful, it just wasn't what you expected or wanted, so you hate it.
Robert Thomas
she probably has a cleaner resume, but will she be remembered as important? I doubt it. That "tears in rain" improv is gonna be some immortal cinematic shit
Liam Lee
>will she be remembered as important? Literally has nothing to do with whether she's a better actor than Rutger Hauer or not.
Tyler Martin
idk i havent seen her in anything. do you recommend any movies of hers?
Aiden Edwards
Well Rutger Hauer is one of the best antagonists in cinema history, not really that fair. But K is a miles better and more explored character than Deckard in the original
Mason Wright
Nah i hate it for what it represents. It represents the death of hollywoods perception of the arctypical white man with power and the handing over of the torch to white women. and the method in which they did it was very reminiscent of how they cucked lalaland out of best picture by pretending to give it to them and then "oooops my mistake" its actually moonlight!.... its all ideologically driven feminist corporate crap
Brody Harris
>they cucked lalaland out of best picture by pretending to give it to them and then "oooops my mistake" its actually moonlight! La La Land was shit, though. At the very least, worse than Moonlight.
Xavier Martin
cant argue with that. I loved Ryan Goslings character. His relationship with JOI is amazing
Brandon Young
>tfw didn't feel anything for K
Hunter Hernandez
eh i liked it. if moonlight was any better of a movie it wouldnt have won best picture. moonlight won for political reasons. They couldnt stand giving the best picture to white people.
Nathaniel Nguyen
You liking La La Land doesn't mean it isn't shit. >[movie] won [Oscar] for political reasons WOW, what a fucking shock. >They couldnt stand giving the best picture to white people Or they couldn't stand giving the best picture to an objectively shitty flick. I'm really fucking glad they learned from their mistake with the fucking Artist and didn't give the best picture Oscar to such a Hollywood masturbatory film.
Noah Powell
well even if it is a shit film, the academy fucking loved it. It won pretty much every award besides best picture... it won best picture at the emmy's and was expected to win at the oscars... and even though they loved it, they still decided to hand the award to Moonlight. Thats my only point. Similarly, Ryan Goslings pinnocchio arc is thwarted by girl in the bubble. This is a way of driving yet another hollywood message down our throats. You white males arent special. White women are the specials ones. This is what BR2049 was saying. Make no mistake
Tyler Murphy
Don't open this webm
Jose Ortiz
pls
James Jenkins
This is so stupid that it must be bait. But then again a lot of people are really dumb. I can't decide.
Joseph Martin
clearly both, with op obviously falling into each category
Gabriel Smith
tits or gtfo
Hudson King
No, BR2049 is saying that no one is special by default and you can only become "special" by your own actions you silly brainlet.
Christian Nguyen
Nah, it's feminist propaganda.
Christian Brooks
I mean yes it is that, but with subconscious feminist propaganda.
Jaxson Murphy
i liked how even though K was a manufactured slave who would be turned into slag if he merely was upset during his baseline readings he still was expected to live on his own in some shitty apartment and deal with shit like rent and healthcare costs, now THAT's evil
Connor Clark
but his actions are going to be seen by no one but Harrison Ford (who doesnt give a shit about him)... and therefore his actions will die with him
Carson Fisher
He's calling you retarded
Kayden Davis
>namefag >retarded What a coincidence
Kevin Myers
Then why do feminist hate the film?
Jack Baker
:(
Elijah Peterson
The most reddit comparison I've ever seen
Evan Moore
...
Liam King
because theyre idiots
Jaxon Baker
You are not made "special" because of how other percieve you user, you can only be special as you. What others think of K means jackshit, they can think he is the literal chosen one, doesn't matter at all. But when he lays there on the steps in the snow he feels complete contentment
Samuel Barnes
when there is no god.... being special means nothing unless there is someone else to witness it. So youre saying that we should think this is some great ending because K feels good about himself right before he dies... he was all sad and moody and lost and now he feels good... the fans of this film must truly be depressed if they think: Robot finally gets good self esteem= good ending XD
Brandon Foster
>The love of his life dies The love of his life never existed in the first place.
Isaiah Ramirez
love of your life never existed
Ayden Nguyen
Yes user, when you are about to die the only thing that matters is that you feel good about yourself and your life, what you've done and all. What others think of you when you are dead means jackshit.
Kafka died as a nobody who told his friend to burn all of his work that nobody saw completely, do you think he would rather die as a content fulfilled person or as a miserable sack of shit whohappens to become famous after he dies?
Xavier Lewis
well then, BR2049 had the exact opposite message as the original:
in the first Roy redeems himself by creation. He creates an experience from which Harrison would remember him by.
in BR2049 K redeems himself by what he does as a cog in a greater cause.
Landon Martinez
The entire movie hinges on "waifu shit."
Henry Wright
>in BR2049 K redeems himself by what he does as a cog in a greater cause. What greater cause? He rejected both resistance and Wallace, as well as their causes. He died in result of his own decision.