Avatar: TLoA

So, were those guys and their quest for redemption the best the series had to offer?

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yea

Yep

Iroh needed redemption?

Yes.

Zuko has one of the best character arcs in animation.

Well Iroh did try to take Ba Sing Se and gave up on his siege because his son died.

He wasn't seeking redemption for that, though.

He acknowledged that he was tired, and that he wasn't that person anymore.

Iroh had already redeemed himself for that long before the story started with Aang awakening from the iceburg.

It's implied that's what led him to join the White Lotus Society and take up the belief that all of the nations were needed for balance.

Why didn't he challenge Ozai to an Agni Kai and curbstomp him and end the war?

>Zuko actually betrays Iroh to get everything he wanted right where it looked like he was going to turn around
This was the biggest aspect about Zuko and his arc that was the most impressive was that the story didn't do the obvious. Zuko betrays his only family member who truly loved him and never abandoned him of his own accord to gain favor with this father who had been the one to abuse him and strip him of everything just because he spoke out against the concept of using people of his own nation as meatshields in the war.

He gets EVERYTHING he wanted and finds out firsthand that its all hollow and unfulfilling. It makes his actual turn later on feel even stronger and makes it even harder for him to join Team Avatar later on because of it. Him seeking forgiveness from Iroh is so damn good, its one of the best emotional moments in the show and it all comes from how their relationship was built up and struck down by that initial betrayal in Ba Sing Se.

Yeah

His son died trying to please him and serve the Fire Nation. He redeemed himself by recognizing the self-destructive path Zuko was on and steering both his nephew, and his country, onto a better path

He literally answered that question at the end of the series.

>Even if I did defeat Ozai, and I don't know that I could, it would be the wrong way to end the war. History would see it as just more senseless violence, a brother killing a brother to grab power. The only way for this was to end peacefully is for the Avatar to defeat the Fire Lord.

Yes

No, but he wanted it

That's stupid reasoning.

That's stupid. Korra proves the world doesn't need the Avatar to have peace and since Aang literally ran away to let 100 years of war happen, somebody who wasn't the Avatar was needed to end the war.

Iroh would be looked at as a Hero who put an end to a war the Avatar couldn't.

youtube.com/watch?v=ErmZRsCIUsE

damn ninjas cutting onions in my room...

fuck i dont remember this one.

Which chapter was?

Zuko had best girl right in front of him.

did he go after the somber girl?

He married and knocked up somber girl. Their daughter was firelord in TLoK

He had horrible tastes.

I'd take anything from Korra with a grain of salt, considering just how much shit that series retconned.

Why was the Water Tribe an icecap, they couldnt have had a tundra climate with some herbivores to at least make the lives on those humans better?

I agree. But I think Iroh wouldn't be able to defeat Ozai.

book 2: tales of Ba Sing Sei

they were based off the innuit

Wss Iroh looking for redemption? For what?

No, but he was going through his own issues as well even if he didn't show it.

>He gets EVERYTHING he wanted and finds out firsthand that its all hollow and unfulfilling
Yeah, but shame that durng his time in the FN we only get to see him being miserable around his gf rather than showing him with Ozai or actually doing prince stuff.

>Even if I did defeat Ozai, and I don't know that I could, it would be the wrong way to end the war. History would see it as just more senseless violence, a brother killing a brother to grab power. The only way for this was to end peacefully is for the Avatar to defeat the Fire Lord.

And then he tells Zuko to go kill his sister so he can grab the power of the Fire Lord

>Official Top 10 Best ATLA Characters
Iroh
Toph
Sokka
Zuko
Aang
Ty Lee
Katara
Azula
Bumi
Cabbage Merchant

She was crazy and needed to go down.

He didnt imply to kill Azula, but she was already insane and needed to be stopped, including killing her as a last resort.

Does anyone know what episode exactly is the last one that has Mako voicing Iroh? I'm midway through season 2 now, so I just want to be prepared if it's super noticeable.

>Zuko that low
Is having the best character arc in western animation not enough?

Also, I personally think that Toph is a bit overrated, especially with how ignored she is in Book 3, she only gets to have one episode focused on herself (Sokka and Katara get three each), and that episode is almost as much of a Katara episode as a Toph one.

the guy who replaced him sounds pretty similar to Mako.
The last line he voiced was in Histories of Ba Sing Se - Iroh adventure or something like that.

pretty sure it was Tales of Ba Sing Se but I could be wrong

>western animation
>drawn by chinks

am I missing something here? Wasnt Avatar considered an anime?

>Avatar thread
>immediately all I can do is get angry about how much I hate Korra

I'm too far gone. Put me out of my misery.

Up until the end of Book 2. But I think there were already some lines the replacement did in Tales of Ba Sing Se.

To be fair Iroh was in a secret society devoted to the Avatar's mission. And his logic isn't completely off. I mean if Hitler just got couped by the other Nazis adn they just said "we'll chill out with the war but we're probably going to keep most our shit" the whole mythology of the Good Guy Allies defeating real life Nazi Supervillains wouldn't exist. Also most Allied Nations would be denied their "revenge" against the Axis. I mean there are Americans sill sore about fucking Pearl Harbor, can you imagine how pissed we'd be if those Nips just got off scott free? The issues the UK would have if the Germany didn't get beat after the Blitz? The Avatar winning gives the rest of the world a nice symbolic bow.
I don't think Baldwin takes over until when Iroh returns in season 3.
Well Zuko had personal turmoil in that fight.

>To be fair Iroh was in a secret society devoted to the Avatar's mission.
And just 8 years earlier he personally led the Avatar equivalent to the Siege of Leningrad.

>the exact same people who made this also made Korra

I don't know how it's possible. Please help me understand how two people can fall so far.

To be honest, I didnt watch the Korra series because i disliked how the setup was in a NotChicago city with some china elements and mafia shit.

The only thing I remember is people getting insane here for the ending showing a canon lesbian couple.

>Well Zuko had personal turmoil in that fight.
What does that have to do with the hypocrisy of being against fighting Ozai because brothers killing each other over power is wrong while directly telling Zuko to go throw fire to his sister until he gets to become Fire Lord over her?

The lesbian thing is just enraging because it's not set up in the slightest. There's absolutely no reason for it to happen, it just happens because Bryke (more like Kyke if you catch my drift) succumbed to tumblr disease after TLA.

I don't give a shit if your character is gonna turn out to be gay, but don't do it immediately after several seasons of her primary emotional motivator being "omg which cute boy do i pick."

>Azula that low
Fucking peasant

He didnt tell him to go murder him as fasr as i remember, just to stop her.

Good, you wont miss anything from that piece of shit sequel.

youtube.com/watch?v=uiGQGmnMt0I

I dare you to watch the entire thing

the only good thing from that was the KorraxAsami lesbian fan art.

>He didnt tell him to go murder him as fasr as i remember, just to stop her.
What was Zuko supposed to do? Gluebend her arms so she can't move anymore? Challenge her to a dance-off?

Zuko spent the whole previous episode telling Aang that he had to kill Ozai and there was nothing wrong of doing that for the sake of world peace.

Heck, if Katara hadn't gotten in the way, Zuko would have probably ended up killing Azula with the powerboosted lighting redirection.

I've only seen ATLA. Is Korra really that much worse?

I'm not really a fan of the stories or characters in either series honestly, I just love the great fights, creative use of the elements, and visuals in general

It's not hypocrisy since Iroh's logic is based purely that he believes in the symbolism of these battles. Winning that fight was as much for Zuko as it was for the Fire Nation. Also Aang was still the one defeating the Phoenix king. History still gets the message.

Not really, it's nowhere as good but it's not the "childhood ruined" "irreedemable piece of shit" that Sup Forums makes it out to be.

Korra's writing is so shit that you straight up cannot consider it in canon with TLA. I'm not joking. They straight up rewrite so much of the history of the universe that the two are irreconcilable .

If I ever become autistic enough to make two hour long videos about why I don't like things on the internet, I'm dedicating it to how much I hate Korra.

The only good thing bout the legend of Korra was to know more about the old characters from Legend of Aang.

Wait they retcon established story/worldbuilding elements and lore for LoK? That sounds like bullshit.

Not really, it's more that they expand on the established story but some people think that their headcanons of stuff that wasn't explained was better than what we ended up getting

>how benders learned to bend in TLA
They were taught by the animals around them that could do so. Earthbenders learned from moles and mimicked their movements, firebenders from dragons, etc. This is stated in the show.

>Korra
Giant magic turtles gave bending to humans by touching them on the forehead. That's it.

This is direct, undeniable fact. Bryke broke their own established universe because they didn't give a fuck or just forgot.

No, it was she who challenged Zuko.

Didnt they need to as for the elements to the turtles everytime they had to go hunting out of the safety of their home?

By the way, she's younger than him, so it's only reasonable that she can be crowned only after challenging and defeating him.

No, it has high and lows, and the overall quality is definitely not as high as the original, but Sup Forums loves to exaggerate when it comes to shitting on things.

You might like it, you might hate it. I guarantee you'll find at least a few things to like if you enjoyed the original series. Just remember that Book 2 is the worst it gets (even though it contains arguably the best 2 episodes of the series), so if you can get through that you're golden.

>It was good to find out Toph was a whore who was shit at raising her kids
>It was good to know Aang played favorites and left his non-airbender kids feeling neglected
>It's good to know Sokka never had kids and died before all his friends
The fates of the old cast was the worst part

>arguably the best 2 episodes of the series

The ones where a retarded dickhead nearly destroys the world and then only sort of fixes it while doing a bunch of shit that makes no sense?

The wan episodes were shit. Just because they were pretty does not redeem the many things wrong with them

>Mary "Toph Beifong" Sue
kys

>(even though it contains arguably the best 2 episodes of the series),
>arguably
Thank you for putting that in your sentence. But no the first avatar episodes were terrible too aside from the animation. Most only latched onto them because it wasn't Korra so they found solace in hurting themselves by watching shit but at least the shit had a different style.

>The one where an autist on a Mongolian anal hair sculpting enthusiasts' yahoo group gets triggered over someone's opinion of a show he doesn't like.

>Giant magic turtles gave bending to humans by touching them on the forehead. That's it.

No they didn't. They gave them the potential to bend, bending itself, which is a martial art, was still learned from animals.

They literally showed Wan learning how to control his fire from a dragon, there is no retcon.

THE FUCKING TURTLES GAVE THE POWER TO BE CAPABLE OF MANIPULATING THE ELEMENTS, THE MOON AND THE ANIMALS TAUGHT PEOPLE HOW TO USE THEM PROPERLY AS AN EXTENSION OF THEMSELVES

Did you miss the fucking blatant in-your-face scene of Wan learning how to properly manipulate fire by watching a fucking dragon?

For fuck's sake even ATLA had a fucking giant turtle teaching Aang how to give an take away the ability to use elements.

It isn't even subtext or information from side material, it's all outright stated information directly from the characters.


I don't even like LoK but Jesus, this whole argument we've had a hundred thousand times before just makes it look like some people want to get pissed for the sake of getting pissed rather than look and listen to what is shown onscreen.

>For fuck's sake even ATLA had a fucking giant turtle teaching Aang how to give an take away the ability to use elements.


And that was a retarded DEM that was never ever hinted at in the show except for a few appearances of a Lion Turtle in a book and a statue.

>makes it look like some people want to get pissed for the sake of getting pissed rather than look and listen to what is shown onscreen
Mostly because that's exactly what's occurring.

God damn this was a beautiful scene.

I didnt say anything from them being perfect and living a happy life after the war ended.
In fact, that makes them more human.

I have to give you the reason about Sokka. We didnt know more than him and that was a shame.

It looked pretty, but I'm in the unpopular camp of "it was a shit tier fight".

Can't believe so many people call this one of the best fight scenes in the series, it had great effects but the fight choreography was so god damned bland.

But it also didn't really change or affect anything. I mean, the whole dilemma never even existed in the first place, since Aang was shown to be able to easily capture and restrain Ozai, and in LoK we see that firebenders can be safely kept where their bending is weakened. And there was another DeM when Aang unlocked his chakra.

I'll give you that Toph;s shittiness was to be expected, But Aang becoming a no fun neglectful dad was awful

Iroh also emphasizes that Zuko reclaiming the throne is important since he has unimpeachable honor. Iroh had committed terrible acts in the prosecution of the war, acts he repented for later, but he still committed those acts. Iroh taking the throne would be seen as one more bloodthirsty war general taking over.

Zuko was clean of the taint of the war, he never directly particpated, he was young never having committed the acts you have to commit in war.

I only call it overrated because of how badly it ends just for the sake of giving Katara something to do in the finale.

But a fight scene has much more going on for it than just coreography, the stakes, the music, the visuals, the characters' journeys and relationship with each other is what makes the fight so great and much more investing than Aang fighting the guy that had only been in like 8 episodes throughout the whole series.

>And there was another DeM when Aang unlocked his chakra.

That I don't agree with.

He has unlocked his Chakra spiritually when he was in the catacombs at the end of S2, but was then blocked physically by Azula right after that.

What better way to unlock a physically locked chakra than by a hard physical slam against a slightly pointy rock?

You literally quoted one the best things about LoK in the characterization department.

>in LoK we see that firebenders can be safely kept where their bending is weakened.
We see that already in The Boiling Rock with the freezer prisons and in Winter Solstice where the earthbenders were going to chop off Iroh's hands to keep him from firebending.

Heck, the whole "I don't wanna kill Ozai" shit just raises the question of what were Aang and Sokka planning to do with him when they were going to fight him in Day of Black Sun.

Yes, but it was a completely random pointy rock.

Considering they fought in a location with rocks jutting out hard from everywhere, I don't think it was really that unlikely.

>But Aang becoming a no fun neglectful dad was awful
To be fair, it adressed the question of how can the guy responsible for restarting the Air Nomad culture can have a happy family life with a waterbender.

And for the most part he did have a happy family, it's just that there was always going to be the problem of him having to pay more attention to the airbender kid than to the other ones.

But it wasn't better than basically any other fight Zuko had in the entire series.

Any time he was the Blue Spirit
Zuko Alone
Agni Ki against Zhao
That time it was everyone vs everyone in the abandoned village and Azula attacked Iroh

All of these were better than Zuko and Azula standing in a field throwing kamehamehas at each other for a few minutes (and then Zuko fucks up so that Katara can girl power and basically invalidate the whole purpose of Zuko fighting Azula one-on-one)

So what, it's still random. It's a convenient utterly random thing that alone changed the outcome of the fight.

>what were Aang and Sokka planning to do with him when they were going to fight him in Day of Black Sun
Good question about Aang. Sokka would probably just kill him though.

This.

Anyone who defends that shit is a fucking fanboy. They're the same type of people that obviously ignores anything good about Korra. It's really frustrating.

>What better way to unlock a physically locked chakra than by a hard physical slam against a slightly pointy rock?
The problem people have with that is that an accident is a terrible way to make the MC gain the power-up needed to win a fight.

And the fact that there was nothing stopping Aang from ending the war a month earlier except nobody using acupuncture on him.

True, Aang was the only one not thinking things through since he never brings up what they'd do when they fight Ozai and he's the only one who showed any objection to just executing his shit up.

>Sokka would probably just kill him though.
Aang would tell him not to because it's wrong, they would get into a fight and Ozai would gain back his firebending eventually.

The choreography wasn't the best in the series but that isn't the long and short of it.

You have it being the culmination of Azula and Zuko's arcs. Zuko finally is wholly together, a long way from his original angry self while Azula has fallen from the cold and calculating warrior to literally insane from all the pressures and paranoia she is experiencing. It was a battle of ideologies for the Fire Nation, a fight for its very soul, acted out by the two possible heirs to the throne.

The music knocked it out of the park, somber and tragic, fitting this war between siblings that shouldn't have needed to happen.

The only sticking point for me was Katara saving the day since the only reason she could was because she was originally too incompetent to protect herself from Azula's lightning, but then afterwards more than capable of beating Azula.

I've said this before but they should have tied the chakra unlocking to Ozai hitting him with lightning, perhaps specifically when Aang fails to redirect it back at Ozai so it's literally Aang's compassion that causes him pain, but then reopens the chakra with a huge burst of energy.

Imagine if it'd been something Ozai did directly instead, how much better it would fit thematically.

Instead of just accidentally knocking Aang into a pointy rock that hits his god button,

>Aang is losing steam, Ozai is starting to gain the upper hand
>Rather than just finishing him off, Ozai decides to be a dick and fuck around with him
>Queue scene of Ozai being generally evil and torturing a (1)12 year old boy because he's evil, smacks him around a bit, etc.
>Decides to just be a giant dick and go all Palpatine and shock his shit up a bit
>Shoots Aang with lightning, hits him in the spot Azula did
>Avatar mode engage, begin protocol "Ozai Anal Prolapse"

>You have it being the culmination of Azula and Zuko's arcs. Zuko finally is wholly together, a long way from his original angry self while Azula has fallen from the cold and calculating warrior to literally insane from all the pressures and paranoia she is experiencing. It was a battle of ideologies for the Fire Nation, a fight for its very soul, acted out by the two possible heirs to the throne.
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT. WHY THE FUCK DID KATARA GET TO BE THE ONE TO WIN THAT FIGHT.

But the choreography really does matter for that same reason. We're supposed to see how off balance Azula is and how zen Zuko has become, but the only indication of that is Azula cut her hair stupid and put on her make-up wrong because they BOTH JUST STAND THERE AND SHOOT BIG FIREBALLS BACK AND FORTH.

Something similar to the way Zuko overpowered Zhao (but obviously on a grander scale) would have been a much better representation of all that, have Azula slowly lose control of the fight because she can't keep it together while Zuko just lets everything roll off his back. Huge missed opportunity.