>most powerful of the wizards
>easily btfos gandalf
>raises an army of 10.000s of superhumans within weeks
>is called the WISE
>has spy crows and a fucking palantir
>gets btfo by slowly walking trees
How did he not see that coming? Why did he leave Isengard defenseless? Why didnt he fuck the ents up?
What a cuck.
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he provided the means of his own destruction by using firewood.
He had recently developed a taste for soy.
True hero of LotR. Loses only because the author literally hated progress.
Saruman had a "mind of metal and wheels" or something like that...
Cared nothing for nature, which is why he never saw the Ents attacking or the Eagles coming for Gandalf .
the actor is unironically a fucking retard t finn
The movies never really gave the impression he was competent
>calling the legend Christopher Lee a retard, even as bait..
nil nisi bonum..
[global warming intensifies]
The ents obviously take forever to debate with each other over the most minute of things.
I guess he assumed they'd deliberate forever on what to do instead of doing anything. That is assuming that he even expected them the first place.
Still doesnt seem like a wise thing to do.
He became addicted to the internet (Palantir) and drifted into eing radicalized by reactionary forces (Sauron). This led to him making bad decisions.
he wasn't like that before the corruption
I don't know the lore, but are ents known for leaving the forest? Maybe he didn't expect ents to try to engage him on an open battlefield.
>Why didnt he fuck the ents up?
While I have no evidence to prove it, it is likely that Ents are resistant to magic. Maiar like Saruman are also not all powerful beings even if they are technically immortal. Gandalf doesn't originally want to leave the Undying lands because he is afraid of Sauron for example.
They're made of wood. They'll burn. Do you really believe the one-man industrial revolution didn't have incendiary weapons?
Pippin and Merry roused the Ents, which he never suspected. He's also not the most powerful of the wizards, Gandalf was commonly considered more knowledgeable and all of the other wizards respected him more, yet Saruman was still chosen. That's why the boatswain gave Gandalf an Elvish ring; everyone knew he had more latent ability.
He's exceptionally wise, but incredibly arrogant, which is why he develops as the only truly gray character in the series, and which is why he gets fucked. He was focusing all of his spies on locating the ringbearer because he wanted to capture that power for himself before Sauron could. It was this arrogance that made him never consider the Ents, and lead an all out attack under the assumption that Theoden was still crippled (I believe he had already defeated Rohan in three battles, so was not really concerned at all.)
What was the dam for anyway?
I doubt he had turbines to make use of its height. A much smaller would have been just as good for regular mills.
Why didn't he just cast fireball?
It wasn't the ents it was Grima
Hubris. He wasn't really that wise. Ambitious.
>green magical wood
>burn
Even so, nowhere do we see incendiary weapons. And Saruman's personal power was all drained from manifesting his forces. Definitely wouldn't have mattered considering the dams we broken anyways; also, in the books there were waaaaay more Ents.
>Saruman's personal power was all drained from manifesting his forces
The great thing about technology is that is works the same for everybody.
Do you mean all of the siege weapons that went to Helms Deep? There was literally who left at Isengard
He got stupid when he became multicultural
to drain land around his fortress maybe
Hubris
*checks IMBD*
oh...
Real question is how the fuck did 2000 heavy cavalry sneak up on an army that big when thy had all that supernatural scouting? Did Saruman literally Attack-move his army into helms deep and then go to bed? Why not post some Uruks on that big hill to at least warn the gigantic army of potential cavalry attacks when they already knew that a force of 2000 cavalry was riding around Rohan and we’re specifically attacking at that time to take it before they got there? Wouldn’t that put them on the forefront of their planning and wouldn’t that then necessitate some scouting of that army when your entire plan hinges on storming their castle before they can get there? Why no trenches and other defenses being built by the other 9000 uruks in the back just standing around all night? The ents are understandable because they were in the forest and had that cover before they actually emerged to attack, the rohirrim were literally riding around the open plains for everyone to see, how does a massive cavalry force sneak up on you? You could hear the thunder of a cavalry force that large from miles away.
well, isengard is literally sitting under a river and they are basically conducting their operations from underground, you saw how everything got fucked in the ass when it broke
so 1. permanence--bigger structure stands longer
2. probably serving a watchtower function, to be sure nobody comes to fuck everything by breaking it by river or the surrounding land
>nowhere do we see incendiary weapons
did you watch the movie
That's what I used to think, but you can't just kill a river, it needs to be redirected or the dam will overflow and crumble just as in the movie if not worse, and for that you don't need a dam in the first place. Just build a channel around your fortress. You can even use it as a moat.
specify. do you mean the bombs that all went to helms deep?
all of his spies (crows) were out looking for the ring so he could get it before sauron could
also when he sent his forces to helms deep, he wasn't aware that theoden had assumed leadership again, and thus could never expected eomer's rescue or the difficulty his forces would face during the battle. it took all of their focus and troops to break into the city
>progress
That's not what he hated. He hated progress for progresses sake. He lived at a time when there was virtiually nothing stopping people/corporations from expanding into and destroying natural habitats or polluting their surroundings. Sure, lots of "progress" was achieved during this age of unchecked industry expansion, but much was lost as well. We become more lazy and more focused on relieving ourselves from any form menial work as we progress. It isn't always for the better as there isn't anything of value for us to fill this free time with (Note how volatile public opinion and MSM has become lately; people are so detached from what really matters that they fill their days with endless nonsense, arguing over which puppet is best suited to carry out the wishes of "progression").
>the ents obviously take forever to debate with each other
>HE ONLY WATCHED THE MOVIES
MY FUCKING SIDES
Saruman baited the Rohirrim to attack. He deliberately gave them the high ground, like Napoleon gave up the Pratzen Heights at Austerlitz.
But Rohirrim had magic at their side, because Saruman didn't think to come to the battlefield to cast his own spells.
Napoleon was worth 40,000 men on the battlefield, according to Wellington. Imagine how many men the White Wizard was worth.
i don't think you fully understand how dams work, also you have no idea whether side channels have been cut behind the dam
can't have a moat because they were working the entire field/housing orcs underground
also watch when the dam breaks in the film, dozens of orcs fly from its top, clearly there to maintain and/or overwatch the dam
Even without magic crows you scout with a force that large, and you dig in when you siege a city to prevent just such a surprise attack even if you don’t expect one. If Caesar was running that Uruk army he would have built some defenses for the potential outcome of Rohan actually getting its shit together and he would have had scouts, in fact Caesar found himself in a similar situation at Alesia and pretty much gave a clinic on how those uruks could have defeated Rohan if they had any sense at all, but of course the super powerful wizard left little retarded orcs in charge of their own retarded orc army which is never a good idea, notice how all of brains and leadership in sauron’s military are led by evil men.
He didn't expect to lose Helm's Deep.
>Napoleon was worth 40,000 men on the battlefiield
what
I think you underestimate just how much damage the elvish bowmen were causing.
Wellington said Napoleon's presence on the battlefield was worth 40,000 men
Saruman is literally an angel with massive character flaws, he thinks he can use the ring to overthrow the dark faggot and yield a positive outcome for himself while Gandalf already affirmatively knows it would rape his mind if that tells you anything about the difference between them
He's a literal walking pile of hubris with no respect or care for humanity who would birth thousands upon thousands of flesh eating monsters to devour them without losing a moment's sleep over it
He's not a general or a strategist, he uses his emotion and blows his whole load to rape Helm's Deep as hard as possible because he thinks he has five aces in his hand and no chance to lose, to his knowledge Theoden is still cucked when he sends the Uruks
Because the Uruks are his babbies, they operate how they have been instructed and try to take a shit on Helm's Deep without any consideration for their defenses
He's not Caesar, end of story
>I doubt he had turbines to make use of its height
He used the dam to route the water into a bunch of streams to turn water-wheels, in turn constantly pumping the bellows.
I wamted badly for Saruman to redeem himself but no. Sucks
Ents hadn't been seen for so long they were legends.
The better question is when will someone make the first continuation movie? If I remember correctly Saruman escaped the tower from the ents and was last seen by Gandalf high in the mountains devolved of most if not all of his powers. Gandalf felt pity and gave him a piece of magical cloak in which Saruman snatched wide eyed and scurried off to begin practicing his magic again. Am I remembering this correctly? I only read the books once when I was a child.
The wizards were limited by Eru in terms of their power when they were sent to Middle Earth, which is why they appear as old men. They were sent as counsellors.
Also, in the books, Treebeard claims that ents are more powerful than Trolls, and that Morgoth created trolls in imitation of ents. (Which couldn't be true, because Morgoth didn't create anything.)
Green wood will burn just fine with enough heat. Come to California next summer, you can see it in person. You haven't lived until you see and hear a eucalyptus tree explode from the heat of a forest fire.
Lmao nah
Saruman escapes with Grima and does some fuckery in the Shire, basically takes it over as a dude named Sharkey
Gets assfucked and killed, goes to the void
That just means trolls are some corrupted form of ent, all of morgoth’s evil is just a corrupted version of something that was sung into being by Eru
It was just a plot point Tolkien threw in to provide a way to wash Isengard clean, literally. It was also a foreshadowing of what he did to the shire, with 'progress".
He got fucking back-doored. He had his whole army at helms deep n he got unexpectedly fucked in the ass by the trees
Saruman, Gandalf, and Sauron are all Maiar, it’s just that Sauron is clearly the strongest Maiar, just like Morgoth was he strongest Valar. And yes, Saruman is a terrible general, Helms Deep is all the proof you need. Literally hitler invading Russia
In the books, Saruman has his staff broken by gandalf, and is exiled from Orthanc. He's not seen again until the Hobbits return home to the Shire, and find it all torn up with factories bellowing smoke and the river polluted. It's all run by a guy named Sharky, who turns out to be Saruman, helped by Grima Wormtongue. They confront him, and Frodo tells him to leave the Shire, and he'll spare him. As he turns, Grima stabs him in the back and runs.
Jackson leaving the Cleansing of The Shire out of the movies was fucking idiotic. It's one of the best scenes in the books. They come back heroes, with chests of gold and armor and weapons. Merry and Pippin have grown taller, because of drinking Ent draughts. Frodo is a leader now, and they don't just go home and go to the pub. They rescue the Shire from the evil that crept in from the bigger war. That's why Sam was later elected Mayor.
Not hating on it just confused - why the fuck would Saruman flee to the Shire and build factories there under the name Sharky?
youtube.com
the one ent on fire seemed pretty btfo until the dam broke
Revenge. He was also enslaving the hobbits. He had no power left, so he was starting over, over a race of creatures he knew would be susceptible to his voice (in the books he could mesmerize people with his voice) and he could take over.
He was corrupted by the dark side
Surely he would know that Frodo would be on his way back to the Shire and doing such a thing would incur the attention of Gondor and everyone.
Saruman doesn’t have a single strategic thought in his head after he goes mad
>he goes mad
I understand now.
Doesnt matter. He did it out of pure revenge. From the book:
“Quite capable,’ said Saruman, ‘and more than a little. You made me laugh, you hobbit-lordlings, riding along with all those great people, so secure and so pleased with your little selves. You thought you had done very well out of it all, and could now just amble back and have a nice quiet time in the country. Saruman’s home could be all wrecked, and he could be turned out, but no one could touch yours. Oh no! Gandalf would look after your affairs.’
Saruman laughed again. ‘Not he! When his tools have done their task he drops them. But you must go dangling after him, dawdling and talking, and riding round twice as far as you needed. ‘’Well,’’ thought I, ‘’if they’re such fools, I will get ahead of them and teach them a lesson. One ill turn deserves another.’’ It would have been a sharper lesson, if only you had given me a little more time and more Men. Still I have already done much that you will find it hard to mend or undo in your lives. And it will be pleasant to think of that and set it against my injuries.”
The absolute madman.
Oh man that really changes a fuck ton of things.
I guess I really do need to read the book
>nowhere do we see incendiary weapons
clearly didn't watch battle at helms deep
evenn before waterloo and 6th coalition, they realized beating napoleon meant beating his generals piece mail and avoiding open confrontation with napoleon
>Are you saying he's pol?
>Are you saying meme magic will lose?
>using the romans as an example for good scouting
The Romans were notorious for skimping out on scouting. Only a handful of generals actually did decent scouting. Most considered it unnecessary and were too lazy to carry it out.
/thread