So in regards to Slott's recent breakdown...

So in regards to Slott's recent breakdown. Why does Marvel believe that new readers are picking up books for the first time and starting on current runs? It seems to fall to logic with me that they'd pick up older runs that look more familiar and recognizable to them. Why are they so dead set on young Peter. Can't they see the fans don't want this?

>Slott's recent breakdown
Elaborate, please.

If they're pretending young Peter is what new readers expect they are flat out lying. The most popular portrayals among newfags would be the 00s movies when he was an adult. They want young Peter because that's what they grew up reading. But that part of it isn't unusual.

What I find odd though is that the 80s-90sfags haven't risen up in the company yet. DC is basically being run by one right now (Johns) and all the creators mention runs in that era that made an impression on them. What's holding up Marvel?

OMD 10th anniversary this year. Some axons here on Sup Forums and users on CBR have been theorizing that if they are to undo it then they'd do it this year. Slott caught wind of this and ranted on CBR.

Summed up, he said that

>OMD will not be undone.

>OMD is a good thing

>Only old fans want OMD undone.

>New fans grew up with post-OMD, so they must like un married Peter more.

>Slott wants new fans more than old fans

>People should be demanding Peter become a high schooler again instead

>Ditko intended Peter to be in high school. (Which is false)

>Because of that, having him graduate was a bad thing.

Because it used to be that starting from the beginning was an effectively laughable idea. You'd start reading with what was coming out NOW, and maybe luck into some reprints or old issues if they happened to be available.

This is how Slott grew up and came into comics- Reading what he could, when it came out. Trade paperback of comprehensive chronological runs weren't really a thing until the late 80s at the earliest, and even then, they weren't really truly comprehensive until pretty much the 00s. And even then stuff went out of print.

But then scans/pirating really took off in the Torrent era, and Comixology's "Steam, but for Comics" only came into being as a counter to that.

Pretty sure they're still going at it on cbr, I hope MJ would die already so all this omd whining would end.

>People should be demanding Peter become a high schooler again instead

>Ditko intended Peter to be in high school. (Which is false)

>Because of that, having him graduate was a bad thing.

Please tell me that fat fuck did not say that. Please tell me you're lying.

Essentially, yes. But the way he worded it made it sound like it was Marvel's stance as a whole.

They are stuck in their ivory tower with everyone too afraid to contradict the group consensus formed by the people on top who hated the marriage since 1987.

Those who try to change anything get crap jobs and are eventually fired. Most would rather screw up a character and introduce an OC to try to make a name for themselves before self publishing, hoping for a movie or TV show gig.

That is so disgusting it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Don't be a tard. MJ dying wouldn't fix Marvel's OMD fuck up.

>Ditko intended Peter to be in high school. (Which is false)
Pete was already in college by the time Ditko left.
Does he REALLY have that little respect to the old fans that he thought people would believe that?

Yeah, the only way to end this is to have MJ's version of Sins Past, and have her cuck Peter for the Hypno-Hustler

God, no wonder why he killed the 90's cartoon Spider-Man.

Plot twist: Mephisto saved Aunt May because she agreed to give him a blowjob. Taking the marriage was just a bonus.
Let's go full retard with the "all women in Peter Parker's life are sluts" shit.

It was already going to turn out this way.

You do realize if you kill MJ, she'll become as popular as Gwen Stacy.

Also, I really hate how fans just have to always start at the beginning. Like, when I got into comics, I hardly knew a lot that was going on, but it made me excited to try and learn more. There was this awe of just figuring out everything bit by bit than starting at some fixed point and going onwards.

The industry is dying, of course less people would come in and make a rise in it.

Mephisto is Peter's real daddy.

Define dying I guess. Trades are where the growth is right now, though of course Marvel lags behind the rest in that department so maybe that is the explanation. Not a lack of new talent in the industry as a whole but it's not going to Marvel.

>only watched Spider-Man movies
>hey maybe I should read comics
>some user tells me about OMD
Lmao I thought those two were married why the fuck would you give up your marriage to extend the life of your 150 year old aunt?

Did they tell you that his Aunt straight up told him to let her die and that she was at peace with her life ending?

Are all comic writers hacks?

Nope, just the nostalgia fags who will call you a nostalgia fag for telling them to stop fucking with continuity and the new age progressive writers Marvel has been picking up as of late.

God, I can't wait til Pete graduates High School in the MCU so we never have to have High School Pete again.

>Slott

>Showing anyone respect.

Who do you think he is?

>Implying they wont go down the Miles route.

All is wrong in the world.

Too bad they gave Ganke to Peter.

>Ditko intended Peter to be in high school.

You know, I'm so sick of Peter being the "Teen Superhero" when we have so many more teen heroes. Hell, it's funny cause my cousin thought Spider-Man was the worst part of Civil War cause he was so damn annoying. Why do we need Peter to be this Avenger cock gobbler?

>>People should be demanding Peter become a high schooler again instead
>>Ditko intended Peter to be in high school. (Which is false)
>>Because of that, having him graduate was a bad thing.

Can Slott please just fucking die?!? How can you read the Ditko run and miss the point by this much?

Nostalgia fags. They ruined Spider-Man, then somehow turned it so that criticism of them is nostalgia fagging.

So wait, normalfags, the new audience Slott wants, bitch about how unrealistic it is superheroes dont grow old, amd wants to have the most popular hero a teen in high school forevet?

But shouldn't they be nostalgaing over the status quo of 90's Peter? Or Raimi Peter? As much as these writers deny it, people know Spider-Man from those outlets if they were newfags. Do they think the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon must be what brings them in?

Really makes you whack your noodle.

yes but Slott is lying because he's too afraid to just say "this is the status quo I prefer and feel more comfortable writing" like a grownup should

>>Ditko intended Peter to be in high school.
I blamed Ultimate Spider-Man popularity.

You miss the point. The nostalgia fags are the ones who are running the company now, the ones that grew up with unmarried "hip and young" Spider-Man. And they're only hiring people who agree with them, (hence the shitty quality as of late). Bendis did Ultimate Spider-Man (which I didn't event think was all that good) and fans ate it up. It also starred a more hip and more young Spider-Man. Therefore, the golden Peter must be highschool.

To be fair, he didn't say Ditko. He said "creator", so he could be following the meme that Stan created Spider-Man.


But even then, Stan was the one who came up with the marriage idea.

I have no idea what the fuck people are talking about with this breakdown

It's so weird how Sup Forums stretches and distorts stuff instead of just saying they think dude makes shitty comics and dislike him bc of that

If people want Spider-Man in high school, why did Spidey tank then?

Hey, Slott.

This. The idea of a highschool Spidey was but backstory fodder. Adult Peter was the status quo. The 90s show was basically nothing but an adult Peter, and the Raimi films left the highschool setting after the first 30 min.

You should see Joe on the Howard Stern show. He basically bitched about how every adaptation of Spider-Man has him single since that's what fans want. So that was his reasoning behind OMD

Slott really is if that one guy working at your LCS wound up working for Marvel

but Slott is actually extremely talented just a bad choice for an extended ongoing on the world's most popular and heavily criticized character
She-Hulk, Mighty Defenders, all of his DC work, Looney Toons stuff and even that Human Torch mini was gold
ASM has just been a complete bore I think its because there was no possible way for him to live up to expectations

>Marvel lags behind the rest in that department

half the reason for that is that they either can't or won't find a way to print quality books at non jewtheft prices. all of their collected editions are more expensive than their DC/Image/DH counterparts AND they use thin glossy shit quality paper.

>Why does Marvel believe that new readers are picking up books for the first time and starting on current runs?
Because they're in the spotlight thanks to the movies.
>Why are they so dead set on young Peter.
Because every single movie has been about young Peter, or started out that way.
>Can't they see the fans don't want this?
Yes, but they're not trying to appeal to fans, they're trying to appeal to casuals, normal people. Unfortunately for Marvel, old people and and middle-aged geeks are running the show, so they don't know what the casual audience actually wants. Somewhere along the line they got it into their heads that tumblr is the answer, not knowing that tumblr is representative of normal people. This lead to them diving headfirst into the diversity mentality and focusing on that, not realizing normal people don't give a fuck about diversity, only kids and manchildren do for different reasons.

tl;dr: They're trying to establish a new, bigger fanbase without knowing what appeals to them or putting in the time and effort to build it up. Honestly, they should just make a cartoon or comic where everyone is a teenager.

>Slott is actually extremely talented

so she'd lose popularity?

>Honestly, they should just make a cartoon or comic where everyone is a teenager.

They made a video game like that, though I think they're more college aged than high school

Ren & Stimpy is one of the most fun comics ever made
suck a dick

>she'll become as popular as Gwen Stacy.
Who is less popular? Seriously most people remember Gwen as the bitch Spider-man accidentally killed while MJ as his wife and true love. MJ is the Lois Lane of Peter Parker's Clark Kent.

>Ren & Stimpy

>Why does Marvel believe that new readers are picking up books for the first time and starting on current runs?
This has been their way of thinking for 40 years.

Slott, I just want you to know that I hate you. Not as a writer, but as a person.

but Stan Lee made Spider-Man, the Human Torch and the X-men graduate high school practically at the same time in the 60s

Read what he actually wrote. user is purposefully making him look more unreasonable than it was.

>It’s far more likely that you’d see a line-wide reboot that reset Spider-Man to high school years (and on model with the creators’ original intent)

Seems pretty accurate to me. With the quotations it seems that Slott is trying to push the notion that Highschool should be main. And in the entire thing he seems to be bitching about how the writers want a Spider-Man that is more relatable to young people.

Just reboot and relaunch at Slott #1. Have him only writing backup stories in Annuals, that's what the fans want.

Look at Homecoming, that is what Marvel wants, he's not wrong.

Pandering to fans isn't exactly a good idea most of the time.

Worked for DC...

I don't even oppose high school Peter in principle (although now that there's Miles and a shit ton of other teenage heroes in 616 there's not much point) but implying that's the only right way to go is just dumb.

Yeah because they i guess... 'pandered' to the ppl that actually buy their books. Marvel doubled-down on diversity and social issues and have had a bit of a talent drain which isnt what people spending money on comics are looking for, thats red-flag shit.

NO! If they kill MJ, they'll reveal she gave birth to Osborne TRIPLETS just to one up Gwen! I do NOT put it past slott!

And I get a lot of mileage out of the silly storylines.

The fucking android game handles the characters better than Marvel.

DC also has half-competent editorial and writers, so they publish decent comics regardless of who they try to pander to.
Which is what matters. Slott or Bendis pandering to old fans is still Slott/Bendis.

Link to the actual rant?

Why did you put pander in quotation marks? Is it only pandering when it's not what you like?
Marvel's issue isn't forced social commentary/minorities, DC does that too, they just do it with a modicum of competence.

Pandering has negative connotations, while pandering to base is not necessarily bad? I dunno.

>no one at Marvel remembers why Spider-man became popular in the first place
this saddens me
the fact that not even marvel remembers spidey because that actually grew up, we saw from a highschool outcast to a full grown married man and everyone was enjoying the ride, new characters where added and the status quo changed in a natural way, Peter changes as a character in a very different than say someone like bats or supes in the 60's/70's
but ever since they tried to pull the breaks on character progression everything started going for the worst, ever since the fucking clone saga marvel got this fixation to have a spider-man in the old status qou wether it be Peter or Ben, then there where the stupid ass break ups or ''disapearances'' and while writers tried to work properly with it like JMS, its still because of this constant fuckery with character progression that has made spider-man so mediocre in the last 20 years, i look at the book now and it feel like im seeing some cape parody book from a independent comic

I think it still can be just as bad, if the base is dumb.
Fans think they want the character to have X or Y characteristics, but they really just want good books.

We at least want them to be recognizable and not have Marvel undo years of continuity to make him a manchild who's nearly thirty and hanging around college bars to pick up girls.

Yeah, but pandering to people who do not actually buy your books is dumber by far. Pandering to base might be retarded, but at least it translates into sales...

>SUfag
Figures.

Peter's best stories happened WAY after high school. I mean, all the stuff that happened in the 70's, 80's, and 90's are the definitive Spider-Man stories.

Gee Slott, you sure had me fooled.

Reminder that this man thinks we're all brain dead.

user, Stan Lee had nothing to do with the marriage.

An issue with that is that the Lee/Ditko run can be a bit hard to get into for nowadays no-attention disrespectful teens (I say that in a Kelly way), what with the narration boxes, outdated dialogue quirks, ("mebbe" comes to mind), outdated clichés, so-so art and cheese overload.
I like it, but I doubt it's what a reader expects Spidey to be if they know him from modern adaptations.

So if they want new readers to experience Peter's growth, they "have to" restart it. Which is what Ultimate was but we know how it turned out.

>Stan Lee, who co-created Spider-Man and was writing the Spider-Man newspaper strip at the time, recounted:

>>I suggested [that Spider-Man and Mary Jane be married] to whoever was in charge, and they thought it was a good idea, too. Now, I wanted to find a way to have them get married in the comics books and the newspaper strip at the same time. There is no way I can explain to you how difficult that was, because the comics books are written two or three months ahead, [and] the newspaper strip is written a certain period of time ahead. To synchronize the two was almost impossible. Also, the Spider-Man strip had one storyline going on, and in the newspaper strip we had a totally different storyline going on, and in order to make them sort of come together so there'd be a marriage... well, it was the toughest thing creatively that I think I have ever done or the people at Marvel had done. [emphasis in original]

Because a company understanding what their paying customers are looking for isn't "pandering" its smart business sense, and its made better if in the case of comic books your creative teams can make it work in a good way.

ON THE OTHER HAND... you have actual pandering to try and reach out to specific groups and then compromise the integrity of your stories because of it, to a point that even decent creative teams can't make it work with all the editorial mandates.

tell me there isn't a fucking difference.

I'm aware of that quote, but it's from like 2011 - and there are far, far too many contradictory statements from other, younger folks at Marvel.

I mean, the wedding issue was in '87, right? So Stan was in LA doing...well, whatever he was doing at Marvel's TV studio. I guess writing the newspaper comic and just sort of being a cool wall decoration.

My understanding from what I've heard from various sources is that the marriage was extremely controversial even when it was pitched. It was only by a very slim margin that it even happened at all.

My guess is Stan got confused (at 88 or however old he was at the time, who can blame him?) and was trying to claim that he pitched the newspaper strip idea to go in tandem with the comic book idea. I somehow doubt Stan was hanging out at Marvel Animation HQ and got word to the NYC comic headquarters. That just isn't how things were going at Marvel in the late 80's.

>People should be demanding Peter become a high schooler again instead
>Ditko intended Peter to be in high school. (Which is false)
>Because of that, having him graduate was a bad thing.
Sad thing is, Marvel doesn't seem to get that making Peter a loser singleton without meaningful emotional connections only works up to a point. When he's a teenager, that's... sure, it's standard issue. When he's a grown man, it's kind of pathetic.

It's got to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to have him held back in high school over and over just to keep him there, without realizing it makes him look like an idiot.

Thing is a business like Marvel doesn't want a small but stable readerbase, they want a growing one.
And sometimes it works: it took Whor 2 years for it's sales to drop to Thor levels before she took the hammer.

Isn't Renew your vows selling like shit too?

>Isn't Renew your vows selling like shit too?

That's because it's A) Not canon, and most people don't buy books unless they're canon. B) It undermines the reason why the marriage between MJ and Peter was so good in the first place. (Her being the human side to Peter and constantly conflicted with his super hero antics.) and C) the plot is boring Saturday morning cartoon tier.

Then they should market to people who might buy their books, not to groups that were repeatedly proven not to.

it's an AU so it's automatically shit sales and then Conway really dropped the ball by telling the same story 3 times.

ASM's sales have been steady as the best single hero for Marvel since Slott took over and let's be real, ASM book just exists so Marvel can keep creating toys, movies, et cetera. they don't give a fuck about the book anymore.

in the end, for all his shit stories and shitting on characters, Slott will (eventually in 2050) give up ASM and Pete will be in the exact same place he was post OMD. Slott's run won't be remembered as anything more than 20+ years of stasis and for Marvel, that's good enough.

I'm not seeing it. Do you really think everyone who's ever bought a Spidey book has the exact same demands as you?
You ARE part of a specific group.

Whor dropped because they took the real Thor out of the book and put him in his own ongoing.

OMD is universally known as the worse cape book of all time.

Now now. There is a case to be made that Ultimatum holds that spot. That said, OMD is probably the most hated.

Fair enough, it's just not sending a message that it's good business sense to bring the marriage back.

Did you miss the part of my post about Whor?

I'm not defending Slott, it's just that I don't think "rebirthing" things is necessarily good, neither from an artistic nor business sense.

As bad as those are, Avengers: The Crossing has you beat.

It's not even part of the unholy Trinity.

Marvel thinks they're appealing to the casual audience, but the truth is they're appealing to another subset of nerds.

Her taking the hammer still boosted sales significantly.

>Did you miss the part of my post about Whor?
I didn't, I also did not miss Angela and "Bitches Don't Know About My Feminist Agenda"

Disney shilling her on "The View" boosted sales.

A part of nerds that don't read their books yet, and whom they want to grab. It's essentially the same thing regardless of how normie they are.