Captain America movie where Stark is the antagonist

>Captain America movie where Stark is the antagonist
>Stark winds up being the most sympathetic character in the entire film
Is this the power of good acting, Sup Forums?

It shows that the public likes Iron Man more than Captain America.

That and the fact that Steve's bff murdered his parents made me feel bad for Tony. Before anyone tries it: Yes I know that Bucky was brainwashed but I dare you to be rational once you realize that the man who took away your parents is five feet away from you and your friend who worked with your dad in the past knew about it and kept it from you.

No, it's the power of screentime and money.

The Russos said that they knew the editing was done when test audiences were split perfectly 50/50 on who they sided with.

Good acting and a bit of hamfisted writing.

Probably helps that Cap was in the wrong the entire movie

Yes.

>believing directors

Tony pls

Yeah best RDJ since the first ironman and the Russos wanted you to feel bad for both.
Cap is my pure husbando but pretty much he admitted he did the right thing for the wrong reasons.

It's more the script really. He comes off as clearly a did nothing wrong antagonist, while the protagonist puts innocents in dangers to prevent his buttbuddy from getting arrested.

How can anyone defend Cap defending Wanda?
She's a criminal who almost destroyed the entire world by aiding Ultron.
She mind fucked the Hulk and is responsible for him rampaging through a city.
Tony keeping her under house arrest while things got worked out was far more than she deserved.

>most sympathetic character

Nope

Just like in the comic

I'd argue that Bucky was the most sympathetic character of the entire film, but Stark was a close second.

Cap just straight-up fucked up the entire film and arguably years before.

Never said I believed them.

>implying i wouldn't just use my suit lasers to cut steve's legs off so he won't get in my way

What got me was Cap's repeated insistence that she's "just a kid".

How old is she supposed to be? Because her actress is a few years from 30, and there's never been any indication until now the character is any younger.

Bucky would be better if he didn't spend the entire franchise being an utter faggot

>Tony keeping her under house arrest while things got worked out was far more than she deserved.
This

Also this.

And the film did a good job of portraying Cap as the hero working against the system to do what needed to be done, only to reveal that it was all a setup and Cap was playing into Zemo's hands. I liked that deconstruction.

Zemo's plan was a bit retarded, and relied on too many conveniences, but I never actually think about that AS I'm watching the movie. I guess that means the Russos did a good enough job with the editing, dialogue, and cinematography that it just never occurs to me in the moment.

Both her and her brother act quite naively, I think it's meant to convey youth.
We know Tony was already selling weapons when they were kids, but that's not saying much considering he was young and hip CEO.

He's cool in Cap 1, but yeah as soon as he becomes WS I just can't really take him seriously.

Early 20s

This movie still pissed me off. The trailers did a great job of making both sides seem justified yet flawed and still understandable.

Then you watch the movie and they just have Buckey be mind controlled.

He's a fucking hypocrite and never learns his lesson. Sure Cap knowing about his dead parents was fucked up but Stark has been shitting the bed since Day 1 and repeats the process in each of his movies and so forth.

i cant belive people still give tony crap for "snaping out" as if someone could stay cool in the situation tony was in

Having Buckey being mind controlled was the only way to make Caps team sympathetic

Not really. He's one of the few people From captain's past and the guy is an idealist whose willing to risk everything to save a single person.

Even in the second avengers movie Tony and cap had a spat where captain said he would be willing to sacrifice everything if that's what it took, Tony was already taking the greater-good/realist stance

You don't get a pass for murder if you are on drugs, drunk, fugue state etc. Bucky didn't seek help, and that means he is to blame, he choosed to live in a European city instead of moving to Patagonia, Siberia or Alaska. Fuck him. And Fuck Steve too.

Civil war marked his last good performance as tony stark since Iron man tbqh, otherwise you can see the capeshit-fatigue on his face.

It's the power of
>Good Writing
>Good Acting
>Good Directing
All things the DCCU is lacking.
Well Batfleck is okay, but he alone can't save them.

t. muhammad.

Me too and I'm not even a big Tony fan.

I would've flown the fuck off the handle too if I were him.

And?

Literally everyone in the avengers has fucked up badly, that's why the idea they deserve to act with no restrictions is insane, you have two career killers that had killed politics and important people, hulk, the brother of Loki the guy that attacked new york, iron man a weapon dealer that created ultron, ultron's sidekick, a piece of propaganda, an American soldier (Americans may be shocked, but the world doesn't like those), etc.

Steve believes his ideals are so superior that the self determination, freedom and independent thinking of other countries and people don't really matter. He can kill and attack people he deem dangerous wherever he wants.

>>People blame Tony for everything in the film.
>>Pepper left him for building suits.
>>Woman blames him for death of child.
>>Ross breathing down his neck.
>>Everyone hates Tony for trying to do the right thing in his mind.
>>Then Bucky kills his parents.
>>"Oh, you can't be mad, he wasn't in control"

That is great shit.

Kinda the point of Civil War is that neither characters are supposed to be the "bad guy". Tony is the antagonist but not necessarily bad or wrong. He just opposes the protagonist.

The movie does a better job at this than the comic.

Also the purpose of Tony and Cap literally fighting each other while nearly crying with sad music playing while Zemo sits back and laughs.

he was basically JUSTed the entire movie

>no longer genuinly confident, probably sitll has PTSD
>no longer a popular celebrity, everyone hates him from Ultron including himself
>no longer a womanizer, the only woman to ever actually love him has left him
>he has to sell out to the government, something he took great pride in avoiding before
>almost all his friends abandon or betray him over this
>his one remaining friend gets painfully crippled
>on top of all this he finds out his parents were murdered
>now stuck in a huge compound with a tfwnogf android and his crippled best friend

>you don't get a pass for murder if you are literally being mind controlled and have your memory erased after every mission

>creates Ultron
>despite everyone telling him it was a bad idea
>fucks everything up and then acts like it's not his fault when the governments come and try and take control (that will lead to more ultrons)

yeah fuck tony

What? How is that Muslim? Bucky was a ticking bomb, he knew it and choose to live in a European capital instead of finding a way to be safe and keep others safe. I guess he needed a gay disco. The worst part of Steve arc in civil war is that he kills people in Africa, his team fails to save civillians, attack the police in Germany, steal an airplane, illegally brake into several countries, his team thrashed an airport, and then he goes and takes his team. Out of prision, he suffers no consequence, he doesn't give a shit. There's nothing wrong with fighting a system you don't believe in if you are not afraid of the consequences, but if you know and are sure you won't pay for your crimes then is not heroic, it's just being a proud self-righteous bastard

>biting the obvious lazy bait this hard

You don't, fugue state doesn't excuse you. If someone forces you to kill you are not innocent. Bucky belongs on a nut house, he needs help, he knows it and he ignores it.

Hey, at the end Bucky went back into deep freeze at his own insistence. And he didn't know that he could be reactivated until Zemo got him.

>Tony made ultron
>forgetting that Wanda mindfucked Tony into doing it

>Zemo's plan was a bit retarded, and relied on too many conveniences
Zemo's plan was mostly vague and I think it's fallacious to assume he planned for every dramatic coincidence to play out exactly like this. The same way detectives on a police show probably didn't plan to show up at suspect's home just as he was leaving, to give a good chase scene.

Nah he just did the right thing.

You're confusing the MCU with facts. And in any event, in your rush to defend Manlet Man in every way you can, you got your MCU chronology wrong.

Did he create Ultron? I thought he just hijacked whatever gay project Tony was working on.
But ultimately Wanda did bad but she was imprisoned purely for retarded reasons and probably wouldn't have been imprisioend had the VibraniumJews not strong armed repercussions onto the only surviving parties of the conflict because SOMEONE MUST BE BLAMED.

>"Hey guys, the nations of the world have all gotten together and decided that they aren't comfortable with us conducting unilateral international operations with no oversight while barging into foreign nations and causing massive collateral damage. Luckily, all they're asking for is that we submit to a basic level of oversight and let the local governments know that we'll be operating in their administrations before going in, so it's a pretty easy solut-"

>"NO TONI, U MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

No idea how you could have sided against Cap, OP.

The UN is bad, remember when they didn't want America to invade Irak? Or when they told Israel to stop bombing children?

>>"NO TONI, U MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Seriously, no amount of charisma and built up good will could save Cap from how retarded the script made him look.

>what if we need to go somewere and they dont let us?
jeez cap then you go anyway and face the consequences latter is not like they can stop you and your super friends

The UN in real life is useless, but in MCU they can operate a law enforcement paramilitary agency relatively well, infiltration problems notwithstanding.

...that fact being Wanda mind-raped Tony with the explicit knowledge that he'd spiral off into into an ill-advised attempt to save the people he loves by playing god?

Wanda acted out of outright malice; her unleashing of the Hulk was evidence enough of that. Stark did an oopsie, but it was not entirely of his own accord (as in, he had NO intention of experimenting with the staff until Wanda fucked with his deepest fears.) And fuck it; he still acted like a champ after the fact. See .

>The UN in real life is useless
I can't believe so many people over 20 genuinely think that.

where the hell is this Wanda caused Ultron to happen bullshit coming from?

they wanted to nuke manhattan

Cap was Right

>A week ago half the government was run by Supernazis
>And now we have to answer to like the most evil guy in the government who wasn't one of those said Nazis.
>But it's okay because we can just disregard these rules at any given moment it suits our needs
At worst it's enslaving yourself to guys who are just plain bad for the world, at best it's just fucking useless.

>they wanted to nuke manhattan
Who doesn't?

also dont forget that ultron lirely booted himself or maybe was thanos

It's appaling lack of commitment. They don't want to be subordinates to the local legitimate authorities, but they also don't want to be world conquerers enforcing their values on peoples of the worlds. This is dumb. Cap is lying to himself.

Tonly literally created Ultron everything that he did was on his hands.

>>And now we have to answer to like the most evil guy in the government who wasn't one of those said Nazis.
It also looks stupid they never point out how Ross also has a skeleton in his closet regarding collateral damage. I mean you can argue they don't know, although we're probably supposed to assume since they hang out between movies, and Banner would have probably told someone what the fuck happened in his solo movie.

Murder doesn't become a crime until your about 27. Look it up.

>I don't care, he killed my mom
I can understand where he's coming from. It's easy to rationalize that Bucky is too screwed up and dangerous to let him walk away, but I know what my real reason for killing him would be. Catharsis. But that's why I'd make a bad superhero.

I kind of like a superhero that is similarly bad at being a superhero.

I also really liked Panther's little exchange with that nutso Eastern European guy at the end. I forget his name. I know we're supposed to hate Marvel but I really enjoyed the end of Civil War.

>Movie has to purposefully go out of the way to say that the Avengers would be overseen by a single person who's an incredible dick in order to make Cap's point of view have any argument

maybe the hydra incident left very few trusth worthy people

Captain America was objectively undeniably wrong and anyone that believes otherwise is a fascist pig

>Lack of commitment
Nah they just have typical targets/agendas.
Y'know smashing Hydra or saving the world.
They're not out to waltz into every 3rd world conflict that happens.
Well not for white girls.

And by right you mean left which means wrong.

Well not so much out of its way but it illustrates an obvious flaw in the system especially THAT system since while Ross is the worst he's hardly the only dick with an ounce of power.

>"Oh, you can't be mad, he wasn't in control"
You know, this always bugged me. Cap had to realize this shit was a too way street. Yeah, he wasn't in control but at the same time Tony just learned something that affected him emotionally and it was basic human nature to lash out the way he did. You can't have your apple pie and eat it, Cap.

I wanted just one extra line out of Zemo, after Tony says "I can probably cut through that wall you're hiding behind"

>I'm sure you could, given time, but then all I'd have to do is list off a few words and that man next to you would make it very difficult to do so. Besides, seeing as how you're here now, I thought I'd show you something in the meantime

I dunno how well that jives with everything, but cut that bit with him telephoning the hotel I think it'd make it clear that he was expecting only Cap and Bucky, if anybody, but decided to take advantage of the situation once Tony showed up

The thing that I really liked is that the final confrontation between Iron Man and Captain America didn't actually have anything to do with the accords. It showed that both Tony and Steve were willing to put things aside for the greater good.

It took a huge reveal that Bucky killed Tony's mom and dad and that Steve KNEW about it to break them.

The same could be said for Cap though. Sure, working with no oversight works NOW, because OF COURSE the Avengers are all pure and noble and just trying their gosh-darned best. But as they expand and add new members, the odds of them becoming corrupted at some point down the line increases, at which point that lack of oversight could become catastrophic.

The only reason manhatten was able to saved was because of a deus ex machina that literally nobody knew about.

Not to mention the fact that Tony's best friend was blown out of the fucking sky and was nearly killed by The Falcon like 12 hours beforehand at that point.

>vision

Shit, you're right. My bad

Here's the fact the a lot of people forget.

Tony actually FAILED to create Ultron. This isn't some fan theory; it's a fucking plot point. Banner outright says Ultron was just a fantasy.

It wasn't until Wanda fucked with Tony's mind that he decided to get a bit creative and try letting the staff interface with the iron legion in an attempt to see what was possible, and even then, he STILL failed. There was no possibility of integration that he was privy to, and he decided to let JARVIS run simulations on how it might be able to interface, at which point Ultron became sentient and began forcing his way past JARVIS and into the internet.

Ultron was an accident born of complete happenstance. Even industrial neglect is a bit of a stretch; Tony made no secret that he wanted to run tests on the scepter, and by no modern technological standards should Ultron have been able to access the internet. Even JARVIS, a fellow AI, was dumbfounded as to how Ultron managed to do what it did. He was basically an isolated brain being analysed. The only thing Tony's really guilty of is putting the staff in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yup. Pretty much how I felt. I was bored of Tony up to that point, but CW did a really good job on making his character interesting again. I wonder how much of depressed Tony we'll see in Homecoming.

Tony was acting "logical". Steve was being completely emotional. In a sense they were both right in Wanda's case.

Fucking this. Did we just forget how fucking incompetent the government really was? They were a hairs breadth from becoming full on Hydra before they were massively outed. So after a massive restructuring the first thing they do is tard rage at the guy who stopped them from being the fucking Fourth Reich? Yeah, nah, fuck you. Cap gave his life for you chucklefucks once, if there is anyone you can trust to do his best for your bullshit state it isn't the village chief, or your "democratically elected" president or the Imam or your mom or anybody's mom it is Captain Motherfucking America.

Tony's scenes are so much longer than Steve's that he ends up only being 2minutes behind in screen-time.

All Steve's scenes are short.

Honestly was super impressed by RDJ in Civil War. I feel like he fell into a bit of a rhythm in the past few years with Stark, like he kinda went on "snarky techy wiseass" autopilot, but Civil War forced him to actually emote for the first time since the first Iron Man.

He did a damn fine job, honestly.

Except he wasn't.

His main intention is to find his fuckbuddy and keep him safe, I know. But he raised some good points against the accords.

>What if there's something they need to do but the committee doesn't let them?
>What if the committee wants them to do something they feel is wrong?
We all know what kind of shady governments pull off already. What would happen if they want to send a squadron of superheroes to the next Vietnam or Iraq? The heroes would revolt against eventually anyways.

My whole thing is, all of the shit Tony went through and learned in that movie was pretty standard happenings in his line of work. He saw Hawkeye hypnotized by Loki, and how he would totally have killed them if he could have. It would have been a tough pill to swallow, but he should have taken learning Bucky killed his dad way better than immediately throwing a bitch fit and going nuts.

I mean, Jesus, they had literally just learned the bad guy right in front of them wanted them fractured and enemies, and Stark still fucked it up.

Yeah, the difference is that Hawkeye killed a literally who agent he only met for few minutes meanwhile Bucky killed his PARENTS. Also, Ultron hadn't happened yet, Pepper was still there, no one was under his chin at every moment (Ross) and his best friend wasn't paralytic after they battled the other half of the Avengers. He wasn't under that much stress like he was in CW.

Like that other user said, it was completely justified he chimped out like that in the heat of the moment, in fact, it'd be terrible writing if he had not.

> Thor Deliberately started a war with Frost giants to feed his own ego.
> Widow has "red in her ledger."
> Tony made the weapons that destroyed Wanda's life.
> Clint probably did some bad shit in his youth.
> Black Panther selfishly sought revenge out of pure bloodlust.

Steve and all the Avengers are afraid of her. Tony is terrified of her because he does not understand her powers.

Mordo will literally shit himself.

>Clint uses a fucking bow to fight inter dimensional armies and maniacal robot killers*
ftfy*

Also Widow is sterilized she should be in the deepest level of the raft.

Am I the only one who remembers every single thread leading up to CW? Everyone here would not shut up about how much they hated Tony and how you'd be retarded to NOT be team Cap. We all knew going into this that bucky killed tony's dad at least because they say that in Winter Soldier. So we already knew that Cap knew and didnt tell Tony. Every single one of you were blindly following cap bc "normies leik iron manlet" I sincerely hope this has been a learning experience for you all.

>but he should have taken learning Bucky killed his dad way better than immediately throwing a bitch fit and going nuts.
Believe it or not he is human prone to the most basic flaw in our design, emotions. Any person would've reacted like that if they were in his shoes. Don't you pretend to be some sort of hard ass.

>widow is sterilized she should be in the deepest level of the raft.

there was already a fully formed ultron body in strucker's base at the beginning of aou. hydra apparently uploaded him into the staff and then deactivated him... or something.

all tony did was link him up with the stark database.

Still a manlet.

Still inferior.

>iron man
>in a spiderman movie
>with geeky peter
>and ganke

just fuck my shit up

dont forget the oc who is in love with peter, black liz, and mini flash

>spiderman

But he's not a normal person; he's dealt with extraordinary circumstances, several times. I mean, I'm not saying he should have been unphased, he could have shouted, been livid, never wanted to see his face again or he'd melt his brain out of his skull, but again, he literally disregarded the fact that he flat out knew the bad dude wanted them to beat the shit out of each other, and hopefully kill a few. He completely and totally blew it at the last minute, because he chose to.