Why does Snyder hate him?

Why does Snyder hate him?

Because he is everything Snyder will never be.

Snyder is the apostle of Darkseid.

Snyder doesn't seem to get the idea some people do good for its own sake.

this

>constantly compares him to Jesus
>made him save the entire planet twice in two movies
>will almost certainly make him do it again in JL
Yeah I'm sure Snyder "hates" him

> no

People keep saying that and yet Clark repeatedly saved multiple people because it was the right thing to do even when it could his dad's death for nothing & expose himself.

Then why did he kill him and make Batman the focus? If he loved Superman so much, he wouldn't have had Batman hijack HIS movie.

Tone. Just because Clark does some good doesn't mean we get that feeling. Instead, we're taken along for desaturated, silly films that do nothing to show us more than "Superman dramatically floats above people on a roof." It's apparently more important to show Superman getting beat by Batman cuz mediocre action is what sells superhero movies I guess.

some call him Darksnyd

Batman wasn't the fucking focus, the focus was Superman's effect on the world including it's effect on Batman.
Superman's death was done to give a definitive answer to the paranoid weary humans of this world that his intent was good the whole time.

>why did kill him
So he can bring him back.
>and make Batman the focus
But he didn't do that.

I think that was stupid. I'd much rather have had Superman have equal, or greater, screentime than Batman, and have him actually inspire people with his actions and his words. I don't need to see Superman's EFFECT on the world. I don't want to see it. I want to see Superman as a character.

Whose we? Morons who can't pay attention to what's actually happening on screen?

Snyder just said this in a interview...
"It’s hard to have a Justice League without Superman. That’s how I feel about it," the director laughed. "It was always a super-intriguing concept to me to have this opportunity to have him make that sacrifice but also have him be this, in a weird sort of way, the why of Justice League

>Morons who can't pay attention
Here we go.....

But this film had to set up this Universe's Batman, he was always going to have a little more screen time.
>and have him actually inspire people with his actions and his words
His sacrifice is inspiring Batman & the league.
>I want to see Superman as a character.
We have gotten that.

Spider-man in fucking civil war had more lines than superman did. Fuck you. He's more or less an angry sad miserable god like frankenstein whose only connection to the human race is lois and his mom.

waaaah my dad's dead
waaaah Lo they don't like me
waaaah I'm desperately trying to be written as interesting but it's not working!

So you and him have a lot in common.

Except you don't have Lois.

Superman is literally started DCEU and every film came after direct consequence of Superman's actions

And you have no one but a sub-par movie, hon.

>constantly compares him to Jesus
That's considered a bad thing to Sup Forums. Know your atheistic audience.

Then why does he have so few lines in BvS? Why does he have to die at the end?

Just have him make some mean faces with glowing red eyes, that'll make him interesting.

Bruce's name literally came first.
Bruce got more speaking lines in the movies.
Bruce got more screen time in the movie.
Bruce narrates the movie.

I could go on but I doubt logic will work on you.

Why did we need that? I didn't want to see Batman. I didn't really give a shit about Batman. I wanted to see Superman. Batman can go have his own movie.

Because "doing good feels good" is a sentiment reserved only for babies. Mature adults want The Passion of the Superman; a six hour psychological snuff film that shows how being a good guy can only lead to suffering.

Because he isn't a character, he's a plot device.

Bruce is the one that makes the kryptonite lance that kills Doomsday. Without that lance, how would they have stopped him?

Bruce is the one that actually saved the day. Clark was just a tool to that end.

>had to set up this

Like we really NEED another retelling of how Martha and Thomas got shot, and a broken string of pearls cluttered a dirty gutter-like street of Gotham and poor Bruce cried and cried himself to sleep, because we've not seen this 50 bazillion times.

>>I want to see Superman as a character.
>We have gotten that.

We got Clark as a hobo who would steal clothes, be petty, destroy public and personal property and kill.

His second appearance showed more killing, more destruction, at least there was no stealing and no pettiness. Just a lot of 'woes me' and 'my dad talks crazy to me in my dreams.'

>makes the kryptonite lance

Batman made the lance to KILL Clark. Because, 'even if there's a 1 percent chance, WE HAVE TO TAKE IT AS AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY."

And BTW, if it was Bruce against Doomsday, by himself, he'd be a dead, fried piece of ash before he even got his fucking prep-time shit up and started.

Go take your Batwank someplace else dude. It's embarrassing.

>His second appearance showed more killing, more destruction
And even less lines. Also, make him look as miserable as humanely possible when saving anyone.

How Sup Forums feels is relevant here, that point can still be used to show Snyder might actually like Superman.
Fuck I forgot about his two most interesting character aspects, making faces with glowing red eyes and also getting into badminton matches where his body is the ball and his fist is his racket.

...

It's more than Sup Forums. Polls show that more & more Americans have a negative view of Christianity. Snyder portraying Superman in such a way is clearly a negative.

>Batman made the lance to KILL Clark. Because, 'even if there's a 1 percent chance, WE HAVE TO TAKE IT AS AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY."
Yes, and? Even when he's wrong, he ends up being right. His paranoia was justified the second Doomsday came out of the pod, because ALL paranoia is justified in the Snyderverse.

The fact of the matter is I fucking hate how Batman gets pushed but I knew as soon as Man of Steel came out and it was controversial (and that's putting it charitably) that WB would do what they always do and double down on Batman.

Your denial of that harsh reality is what's embarrassing. Especially when we're looking down the double barrel of Gotham City Sirens and Nightwing getting movies.

In suicide squad, originally it was batman who put away everyone. Then they rewrote it to work in flash.

>Batman made the lance to KILL Clark. Because, 'even if there's a 1 percent chance, WE HAVE TO TAKE IT AS AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY."
Yes, and? Even when he's wrong, he ends up being right. His paranoia was justified the second Doomsday came out of the pod, because ALL paranoia is justified in the Snyderverse.

As far as him getting turned to ash, I'd agree with that if not for the fact that Snyder gave Batman the magical superpower of invincible cover mechanics. Doomsday can let lose an energy blast that vaporizes buildings and throws back Superman and Wonder Woman, but Batman hides behind a waist high rock and ground zero and he's protected completely.
That's not me seeing Batwank. That's in the fucking movie.

The fact of the matter is I fucking hate how Batman gets pushed but I knew as soon as Man of Steel came out and it was controversial (and that's putting it charitably) that WB would do what they always do and double down on Batman.

Your denial of that unfortunate reality is what's embarrassing. Especially when we're looking down the double barrel of Gotham City Sirens and Nightwing getting movies.

UC corrects that issue. Also you are saying 'Why did superman sacrificed himself to save humanity AGAIN'
Just admit that you have no love for the character.

I actually wouldn't mind if Superman were portrayed as Jesus. The problem is that Snyder only pays attention to the last 10th of the Jesus story where he's lamenting is fate and then getting whipped and beaten.

The other 90 percent were Jesus is going around making friends with people and connecting on a personal level and teaching mankind how to be good to one another? That stuff Snyder has absolutely no time or regard for.

I think that's why it's so reviled. The metaphor is halfassed and just feels exploitative.

>Just admit that you have no love for the character.
You can't pull this shit when he has like 7 lines in total in his own fucking movie.

>Even when he's wrong, he ends up being right. His paranoia was justified the second Doomsday came out of the pod, because ALL paranoia is justified in the Snyderverse.
Sure seems like Batman had a copy of the script.

But that's wrong though.

I actually have good comics. Enjoy your dance offs faggot.

>Enjoy your dance offs
It's adorable that anyone who doesn't like this movie or this universe simply must be "le marvel shill". Jackass.

A character isn't all about talking all the time, jesus christ. You guys act like speaking is the most important thing in movies. It's a visual medium too.
>Actions speak louder than words

Even if any of these lies were true that doesn't make him a non character.
>We got Clark as a hobo who would steal clothes
He stole cloths because he just saved several lives, his had been burned off, probably including his wallet you context denying dumb fuck.
>Petty
That is a good thing, Superman doesn't need to be 100% flawless.
It makes perfect sense for him to be slightly spiteful after years of taking abuse & not reacting.
>destroy public and personal property
Only the trucker's truck he did out of malice everything else was necessary or a accident.
>Kill
And saved 7-8 billion lives doing so.
>His second appearance showed more killing, more destruction
No he said he didn't kill anyone in Africa so in canon he factually did not.
No more destruction of note, he took Doomsday into space the very 1st time he got thrown into a building by the monster.

>>Petty
>That is a good thing
We're done.

As one of those Americans, I didn't think of it that way. You very well might have a good point there.
What I was trying to get at, though, was it matters more what Snyder feels, since he's making the movie. To him it could be the biggest compliment he could give, but I don't know anything about Snyder past his generally poor skills with movie making.

>actions speak louder than words
You guys keep saying this but then when we talk about how the visual execution and depiction of tone of the actions change the interpretation of those actions I might as well be speaking moon.

Yeah, actions speak louder than words. And the way the actions are shown makes Clark come off as an asshole that has to be guilted into doing the right thing because all it ever does is make him miserable. He's reluctant as fuck.

A friend of mine said "Drive" sucked because Gosling didn't talk in it. I liked that movie and agree, actions are important, but Superman is not the Man With No Name. There's a difference between writing a good character who doesn't talk much and having a MAIN character just not have many lines.

Of course he's reluctant, he sees half the world wanting him to leave the fucking planet, and the consequences of his deeds sometimes are too high.
Who wouldn't be reluctant or anxious about that? He is a very human character who is overwhelmed by pressure.
I guess you could say that's not what you want to see in a Superman story, but I like this take. There's always room for growth.

>He gets shit from humans
>First nuke than spear sacrifice
>He says this is my world

Yeah what a reluctant asshole

If you're talking about Man of Steel, he was feeling bad about the argument he just had with Pa Kent and had to let him die to respect his wishes.

Shoehorned Batman, made batman the focus and made him lose a battle he shouldnt have lost and killed him in the end?

>twice
Nigga Superman saved the human race four times in Man of Steel alone.

Being a complex multi dimensional person including having flaws is factually a good thing, that is basic writing 101.
Superman is not exempt from this.

How "just" did he say that?
Because I can go back about six months and pull that interview where Batman has to be the one to gather the league because Snyder wants his seven samurai homage.

Zack Snyder likes Ayn Rand.
Superman is an altruist.

>Being a complex multi dimensional person including having flaws is factually a good thing, that is basic writing 101.
Yes. Making him a miserable brat that couldn't give a fuck about anything outside of his mom does not do that.

I think the thing that's also getting overlooked is that Superman's effect on the world isn't even really entirely his own. He shares it irrevocably with Zod, because ZOD was the one that got to make the first impression on humanity. Because Clark was a coward.

Because the only context Synder has for him is the logo.
Superman isn't an actual character with a personality, so much as he is a symbol you see on tee-shirts and snapbacks. He's strong-guy who punches, what's there to get, right?

People who can comprehend what they are seeing and can interpret beyond what is literally happening that the tone surrounding the actual event contradicts it so much that it damn near invalidates it, actually.

Visuals matter, remember?
Snyder's visuals frame everything Clark does as a painful chore, so the audience interprets it as such. He frames killing Zod and the Battle of Metropolis as tragedies so we think it's a bad thing rather than going HE SAVED THE WORLD.

This shitty kino meme where visuals are the be all end all can't be applied selectively to easter eggs.

>Because the only context Synder has for him is the logo.
And random images he has seen of superman looking angry with glowing red eyes. He loves that.

> Cared about saving lives since he was a kid.
> Cared about defending the woman the trucker was harassing.
> Cared about finding out his origins.
> Cared about finding out his purpose.
> Cared enough about humanity to hold off on going public out of concern he could cause more harm then good.
Try again.

EXEC: So in Batman v Superman, Batman kicks a ton of ass and Superman... barely speaks. Or does much of anything really.
SNYDER: Yes.
EXEC: And then he dies.
SNYDER: Right.
EXEC: And then in Justice League, he's not there until the very end.
SNYDER: Right. Superman is a baby character for faggot children so I try to minimize his presence as much as I can.

EXEC: Makes sense to me, give this man a hundred million dollar budget

>Because Clark was a coward.
Showing restraint out of concern that genocides & war could happen if society throws a shit fit at the revelation of aliens existing isn't cowardice.

>But this film had to set up this Universe's Batman
Ah, so when people say each character should have gotten a solo movie are are responded with the like of
>we really needed that Luke Skywalker solo before A New Hope right?
Set up movies are necessary, but for the one character who has had more movies featuring his origin than any other of the universe, he needed to be set up. Got it.

>Snyder's visuals frame everything Clark does as a painful chore
No he did not, he looked perfect content and happy in the montage, the pain didn't come from the acts he was doing, the pain came from the worldly consequences of doing them.
>He frames killing Zod and the Battle of Metropolis as tragedies so we think it's a bad thing rather than going HE SAVED THE WORLD.
I fail to see how they are mutually exclusive.
In my book the triumph is even more powerful when the stakes are even more dire.

No he has said Superman will return midway.

Either this is a new universe with a "brand new and realistic portrayal of superman" or this is an established universe where everyone knows superman. You can't have it both ways. He's a character you have never given a fuck about, and it shows. And that's fine. But don't expect other people who actually like the character to be fine with it.

Him needing set up doesn't equal needing a whole movie of set up you dumb absolutest fuck.

>he looked perfect content and happy in the montage
Watch it again. Now you're literally just making shit up.

Your massively confusing who your arguing with dude.

He is compared to Jesus in the sense of being a symbol of idiolization and fanatism. He is meant to represent everything bad with religion.

He was smiling when rescuing the Mexican girl until they started worshiping him.
He has no reason to smile while pulling the ship.

>or this is an established universe where everyone knows superman
No one is saying this, what the fuck are you talking about?
He was saying Batman doesn't need to be reintroduced.

Wow looking at it like this makes me really like this portrayal of Superman

The problem is that I didn't get that feeling from watching the film

YEAH MURDERING and WAR IS FUN! Just go watch Captain America in opening of both Civil War and AoU!
Clark should have smiled to the camera after offing Zod like Superman 2 style!

Marvel sure did a number on some people...

You really need to stop with the console wars bullshit.

>He's a character you have never given a fuck about, and it shows
Your said this to a Snyder critic not a Snyder defender as it was obviously irrationally intended for.
Regardless not like past film incarnations of the character doesn't equal not liking the character.
Loved TAS as a kid, and Mos was a godsend to me, and I have been absorbing lots of Superman material since and liked virtually all of it so you can go fuck your presumptuous ass.

>You really need to stop with the console wars bullshit.
You are rgiht, but that doesnt make my sentence wrong.

Who is fanatic over supes? People like him, but those people don't go over the top. Meanwhile atheist Lex bombs government buildings & creates monsters.

Source or I don't believe you. Keeping Superman out until the very end is exactly what Snyder would do.

Superman needs to be a psycho that smiles after killing someone, that smiles around dead corpses, and that smiles around people that just lost their homes, everybody knows that firemen laugh and joke around after a family got burned and had no where to live anymore

the tone doesnt contradict anything, you are just autistic and need to be told what emotion to feel.

then pay attention to the movie next time, because I did

>gathering is the same thing as "reason why"


you are retarded

/thread

>Day of the Dead people touching Superman while Superman looks very uncomfortable

>"Maybe he's not a god. Maybe's he's just a man."

Did you watch the movie?

Read some interviews. Snyder is big into Ayn Rand and Objectivism. Superman started as a socialist folk hero, Tom Joad with powers. He's always kept some of that through the years. He's anti-ego and pro-selflessness.

Snyder HATES the real Superman for the same reasons Ayn Rand would.

>Offing Zod

He knocks him down a shaft but he was never intended to kill him. Watch the Donnor Cut.

>Without that lance, how would they have stopped him?

Wonder Womans sword could fuck him up pretty bad maybe cut his head off with that.

>Because ALL paranoia is justified in the Snyderverse

This.

Batman's tone has absorbed the rest of the DC universe like a cancer. All the magic and imagination and hope has been sucked away.

Snyder movies even have a muted color palette like a Care Bear villain sucked all the good out of everybody.

Except he's been portrayed as a wholly altruistic individual from his first second of screen time. Snyder in his interviews even stated that his Superman is a hero without any need for thanks. If you seriously think the World Engine destruction scene is meant to portray Superman in a negative light you are an abject moron. If you also think Superman's character arc across BvS/JL- a straight up destruction of Lex' anti-theistic philosophy- is meant to represent religion negatively you are also a moron.

Remember when Superman had a character arc that developed him or made him likable in any single way over the course of his two movies? Because I don't

>b-but good characters don't need to be likable

Yep, Superman doesn't need to be likable

>Zack Snyder likes Ayn Rand.
>Superman is an altruist.
>Read some interviews. Snyder is big into Ayn Rand and Objectivism. Superman started as a socialist folk hero, Tom Joad with powers. He's always kept some of that through the years. He's anti-ego and pro-selflessness.
literally the only rand related quote from snyder is in relation to his efforts to adapt the fountainhead

he's never actually said anything about rand or her philosophy, he's only given ONE VAGUE COMMENT about how he sees the fountainhead

superman as depicted in mos and bvs is in no way the guy you guys try to paint him as, in fact, his whole characterization in bvs revolved around the fact that he doesn't know what he's to do for humanity, culminating in a domestic terror attack that had him at the center


discussion and differing opinions on *how* this was shown is fine, but superman in these movies is in no way objectivist, and neither is snyder, read literally anything that describes his personality, and compare that to what you can find on some the republican higher ups
"We have always created icons in our own image. What we've done is we project ourselves on to him. The fact is, maybe he's not some sort of Devil or Jesus character. Maybe he’s just a guy trying to do the right thing."

bvs is VERY atheist

think about it, jesus and christianity are very real within this world, and throughout the movie there are .... interesting juxtapositions of expressions of personal religiosity and the narrative and the ideas its evoking and playing with


connect every instance of projection in the movie with the statue and superman and his journey through the movie
also to the second post: the UC literally shows clark going around being a reporter and again, trying to do what he can for those that are powerless... wait a minute that goes right back into the theme of the ....

>Yes, and? Even when he's wrong, he ends up being right. His paranoia was justified the second Doomsday came out of the pod, because ALL paranoia is justified in the Snyderverse.
brah, the whole doomsday thing is in part a parallel to bruce, and your paranoia spiel is bullshit, the whole reason doomsday got made was of behind the scenes manipulation by lex


it's one of the many ironies present in the movie, everyone's afraid of the alien who's lived here all his life but it's a human who in an act of hubris unleashes a death machine on the planet