Mind Field - Trolley Problem

Michael "The Madman" ACTUALLY DID IT.
youtu.be/1sl5KJ69qiA
youtu.be/1sl5KJ69qiA
youtu.be/1sl5KJ69qiA

Other urls found in this thread:

smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/scientists-replicated-100-psychology-studies-and-fewer-half-got-same-results-180956426/
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>fundamentally misunderstands the trolley problem
the trolley problem is that most people will pull a lever to kill 1 and save 5, but they won't push and kill 1 to save 5 (the same outcome, but through different means). Its a simple criticism of utilitarians who argue that most people already intuitively believe utilitarianism is correct

That's fine, until relatives, friends or whatever come in to play.

Last year there was a glitch with youtube, you were able to download freely the Mindfield playlist links.

I don’t think it works anymore but I never paid for season 1 it was neat.

You can find season 2 on torrent sites within the next few hours just like with season 1

Oh great.

Soy drinker

>Its a simple criticism of utilitarians who argue that most people already intuitively believe utilitarianism is correct
No it isn't. It's just a demonstration that people can't consciously account for why they make the choices they make.

Why would you punish the one dude who did the right thing instead of the 5 idiots who were playing in the wrong area

What did he mean by this?

I never understood the dilemma at all with this problem. Kill the 1. It's a no-brainer.

Also, this was fake. How the fuck do you find anyone over the age of 12 who hasn't heard of the trolley problem to do this experiment on?

>everyone in the world is interested in philosophy
Very Kantian of you.

>Only one person switched the track

The others should be charged with murder

The trolley problem isn't really supposed to be this one-off scenario. When you actually learn about it they start with this simple setting where you can easily make a decision, but then they tack on more circumstances.

"A trolley is barreling towards five people. You stand near the tracks next to an obese man. If you push the man into the tracks it would stop the train."

"What if you were part of a group of Jews hiding in a basement in 1941 while the Gestapo searched your house, and your baby started to cry. Could you smother the baby to save the others?"

It's a simple thought experiment. The goal isn't to figure out what you would do, it's supposed to present a dillema where you have to compare the value of human lives. It shows that human life has no objective value; it's all subjective.

most people are fucking stupid

>Push the Obese man
>Start shouting loudly so the Nazis could find the Jews

Good thing my youtube red free trial still has a week. There's literally nothing else good on Youtube Red.

>How the fuck do you find anyone over the age of 12 who hasn't heard of the trolley problem to do this experiment on?
I bet if I asked at the next family gathering maybe 90% of the people wouldn't know.

*tips*
*stays in room*

Utilitarianism means that you always have to be on the lookout for do-gooders trying to sacrifice you to their "greater good". They claim it maximizes total good but they carefully ignore the harm caused by reducing trust in society and increasing moral hazard. Deontology is simple and predictable, which means people can make good decisions around it. People are more likely to stay off the train tracks when they're sure no obese man will be murdered to save them.

Some guy uploads all of them to dailymotion.

finish watching the fucking video

what about liability
at some point the family of the 1 will sue you for having switched the track

Yeah yeah a gay did it as well, the others should still be charged with murder

at some point the family of the 5 will sue you for doing nothing despite understanding to a reasonable degree how to prevent their deaths

Legally, you would be fine taking no action. However as a direct cause of the one person's death you would be open to criminal charges and litigation.
Faggot

nah, you had no responsibility to take care of the track

Yeah right. No love for the fat guy.
Would you kill 5 fat guys to save your waifu?

I'd kill 5 billion to save my waifu

>use the brake, nobody dies.

Fucking idiots.

>"A trolley is barreling towards five people. You stand near the tracks next to an obese man. If you push the man into the tracks it would stop the train."
Push the man
>"What if you were part of a group of Jews hiding in a basement in 1941 while the Gestapo searched your house, and your baby started to cry. Could you smother the baby to save the others?"
Kill the baby

>, it's supposed to present a dillema where you have to compare the value of human lives.
What's there to compare. One human life is less than many

If you even have a doubt about killing one to save many, you're a bad person.

Utilitarianism, the theoretically correct version, is impossible to implement, because it requires perfect knowledge of the consequences of your actions. Utilitarianism as it exists in practice means always negotiating with terrorists and paying off blackmailers. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

You can’t stop a train like that.
Plus it has nothing to do with the question.

apparently when i give these same answers i get called a monster

Most people seemed to freeze up rather than actually "choose" to not switch.

On what ground, retard?

What's you secret for predicting exactly what happens to all humans until the heat death of the universe? You have no idea if your "greater good" is truly good. But murder is always murder.

They should force them to choose a Sophie.

What if your waifu ends up hating you for killing those five fat men? Would it still be worth it?

Sure you can. what kind of idiot uses a trolley with no brakes and I'm not even a Trolley Engineer.

As for manipulating trolley tracks, I'm pretty sure you got to be qualified to do such a thing are you can be facing manslaughter charges.

Utilitarianism the the preferred philosophy of psychopaths (do evil and trick people into thinking you're good!) and narcissists (be an important person making tough decisions with other people's lives!). You probably are a monster.

A waifu choses you not the other way around.
Pure love can’t hate.

I've never heard the trolley problem stated this way. I'm not sure I even understand, you're saying most people would pull a lever to switch the track to the 1 person track, but they wouldn't push a lever to do so? That sounds like a different thing than the core trolley problem, which is just about ethics.

But if you get involved, you might be charged with manslaughter. Best to not do anything.

Couldn't you make a case for negligent homicide if you could prevent a death but don't?

All lives are not equal. It's not black and white.

Brainlet. Just because of how self-righteous you sound.

Obviously murder you dumb fuck

This is America, not China. There are Good Samaritan laws here.

Not if both options result in death, I'm guessing.

>If you even have a doubt about killing one to save many, you're a bad person.
What if killing one to save the many kills even more?

I don't trust the law to have my back you idiot. I am walking away from that lever.

trolley thread?

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>I don't trust the law to have my back you idiot

The law is the law

What would happen if I switched it back after the first bogie passed the fork. Would the train go off the rails? And if not, would it have enough space to stop?

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Oh sweet summer child.

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Will you pull your lever, Sup Forums?

I pulled mine

Well if you pull it and the other guy doesn't it's his fault.

who is tying all these people to the trolley tracks

So, in the normal trolly problem I don't pull the lever, but in this scenario there is social pressure. What will these people say if I don't pull the lever? Will I get in trouble? So I would pull the lever and pile the blame on anyone who didn't. That's so fucked up...wtf brain?

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Don't do anything, avoid manslaughter charge.

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>"What if you were part of a group of Jews hiding in a basement in 1941 while the Gestapo searched your house, and your baby started to cry. Could you smother the baby to save the others?"

Yes because it's actually a chicken

What if Hitler was one of the five people and Jesus was the one you killed to save them???

Who do you think?

how do we kill all six?

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You just wait three days and welcome Jesus to the bright future.

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>5 people on one track are all +80 years old
>baby on another track
Still gonna kill that baby?

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>due to a genetic mutation, the son has a capacity for happiness that far exceeds all five workers combined
this is great

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No, I'm a huge faggot and retract my original answer. I now understand the reasoning of that dilemma and am sorry for being such a stupid piece of shit earlier.

>make a dumb ""experiment"" using 6 people from the same country, with the same culture, using the same language, with the same age and pretending it say anything about humanity as a whole composed of seven billion different people.
Why do people take psychology seriously?

I do not pull the lever, saving 13/12th's of a life

You are a fucking retard, I'm sorry.

That's how the problem is stated literally every fucking time
Push a PERSON

Why the hell are you hiding the baby? How do they know it is a jewish baby? Why smother it to save yourself when you can just let the gestapo take it?

It's a moderately over-complicated way of saying people are more comfortable with murder the further removed from murder they are. Personally murdering someone you know: hardest, personally murdering someone you don't know: hard, etc, etc, with indirectly causing events that will result in the murder of someone you'll never meet: easiest.

The trolley problem is kinda stupid anyway. Pulling the lever makes you a murderer, not pulling the lever leaves you a bystander.

>monster calls others bad people
okay hitler

Because the gestapo will pump it full of drugs, rape it, impregnate it, have it give birth, then do the same to the child, and inbreed the parents with the offspring to create more and more.

I understood that reference.

this

they should do this test in china and see what happens

[1/?]
On Twin Earth, a brain in a vat is at the wheel of a runaway trolley. There are only two options that the brain can take: the right side of the fork in the track or the left side of the fork. There is no way in sight of derailing or stopping the trolley and the brain is aware of this, for the brain knows trolleys. The brain is causally hooked up to the trolley such that the brain can determine the course which the trolley will take.

On the right side of the track there is a single railroad worker, Jones, who will definitely be killed if the brain steers the trolley to the right. If the railman on the right lives, he will go on to kill five men for the sake of killing them, but in doing so will inadvertently save the lives of thirty orphans (one of the five men he will kill is planning to destroy a bridge that the orphans' bus will be crossing later that night). One of the orphans that will be killed would have grown up to become a tyrant who would make good utilitarian men do bad things. Another of the orphans would grow up to become G.E.M. Anscombe, while a third would invent the pop-top can.

There’s always that one retard.

[2/?]
If the brain in the vat chooses the left side of the track, the trolley will definitely hit and kill a railman on the left side of the track, "Leftie" and will hit and destroy ten beating hearts on the track that could (and would) have been transplanted into ten patients in the local hospital that will die without donor hearts. These are the only hearts available, and the brain is aware of this, for the brain knows hearts. If the railman on the left side of the track lives, he too will kill five men, in fact the same five that the railman on the right would kill. However, "Leftie" will kill the five as an unintended consequence of saving ten men: he will inadvertently kill the five men rushing the ten hearts to the local hospital for transplantation. A further result of "Leftie's" act would be that the busload of orphans will be spared. Among the five men killed by "Leftie" are both the man responsible for putting the brain at the controls of the trolley, and the author of this example. If the ten hearts and "Leftie" are killed by the trolley, the ten prospective heart-transplant patients will die and their kidneys will be used to save the lives of twenty kidney-transplant patients, one of whom will grow up to cure cancer, and one of whom will grow up to be Hitler. There are other kidneys and dialysis machines available, however the brain does not know kidneys, and this is not a factor.

Assume that the brain's choice, whatever it turns out to be, will serve as an example to other brains-in-vats and so the effects of his decision will be amplified. Also assume that if the brain chooses the right side of the fork, an unjust war free of war crimes will ensue, while if the brain chooses the left fork, a just war fraught with war crimes will result. Furthermore, there is an intermittently active Cartesian demon deceiving the brain in such a manner that the brain is never sure if it is being deceived.

QUESTION: What should the brain do?

so what would've happened if one of the people commited suicide after the experiment?

Always go for the option that kills the person who made up the trolley problem.

>smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/scientists-replicated-100-psychology-studies-and-fewer-half-got-same-results-180956426/
Oh sorry to have put in doubt your relig- I mean science.

so you didn't even read the article you're linking I see

Of fucking course they are going to sugarcoat it, it's their entire career.
It doesn't change the fact that psychological studies are unable to separate whatever variables determinate the result, making them worthless.

Frankly that experiment was absolute horseshit AND should not be legal

If I was put in that situation I would have been VERY confused as how the fuck the computer knows there's an object on track; are there sensors on miles and miles of railroad? Is it some kind of image processing algorythm on the camera? Why the fuck would such an advanced system exist if they pay a dude to watch the fucking track anyway.
On top of that I would simply assume that the train is bringing the workers materials to work with instead of their empty fucking hand, and that the conductor of the train is not asleep.
And also that no actual trains run on a track where workers are working especially with the camera guy leaving me alone in his cabin like it's no big deal.

I wouldn't feel the urgency and be confused at the entire setup. It's a terrible test.