Is anyone else tired of the "deepest lore" trend in cartoons?

Is anyone else tired of the "deepest lore" trend in cartoons?

It seems like people thought it would make cartoons more intellectual or something, but honestly it just gave writers a pass to write really weak episode plots where the payoff is some tiny hint of a larger story that never actually gets the payoff that the episode quality was sacrificed for.

It feels like cartoonists don't know how to tell good, short, simple and impactful stories anymore. I want to extend that to most webcomic and traditional comic artists too, who rely on large anime inspired epics that go on forever with the tease of an endgame, but often burn out before getting there, and end up being a waste of everyone's time.

I think episodic cartoons and old one issue story style comics are really underrated. They let authors say more stuff without sacrificing the integrity of the characters, and the compression often led to better pacing and more cutting of the chaff, so to speak. They also have the double effect of making limited series feel longer than they actually were, thus giving them longevity that seems to have disappeared with more serialized shows and comics that just blend into one needlessly long story.

I guess what I'm saying is that it makes authors meander more than they should and while they can be executed well, overall they've been more of a negative than a positive on comics and cartoons specifically.

I bow before your statement good sir. For you have accurately summed up my exact thoughts on the direction cartoons have been going over the past several years in ways I couldn't fathom to put in mere words

Beautiful, there isn't any room for an argument.
This post is simply too appropriate and befitting to the situation at hand.
A true shame the "deepest lore" aspect hasn't been handled properly recently, I fear it will be an absurd amount of time before it is finally done right.

Perfectly put user

I can't really add much to that, people, specialy inexperienced people, shouldn't try to make something so grand and extended for so long, specially if its going to end up being a dud that's solved in a short time anyway

>webcomics
>a medium where you can do anything you want with no reatraint, true creative freedom where the only limitation is personal skill and work ethic

>only time it was ever financially relevant was when people were making shitty gamer comics as a replacement for newspaper strips
>now they're a sea of unfinished "comfy, slice of life, anything goes" comics that have a meandering plot and eventually die out when the author gets a real job as a storyboarded or something

Can we talk about how shitty the whole "comfy" trend is, while we're at it? What happened to breaking boundaries, defying expectations and social norms, pushing the viewer to have a different and new and extreme experience thst will leave them different than when they came in?

Why is it that the most creatively free field of comics is so fucking entrenched in mediocrity?

And don't say because of inexperienced artists, there are so many examples of amateurs making fantastic work in film and art that it's not excusable for webcomics to be almost entirely shit, least of all safe, banal, commercial shit.

>Plot-heavy, deepest lore cartoons
Steven Universe, Star Vs., Voltron, whatever Star Wars cartoon is showing. Is that it?

While episodic cartoons are literally everything else.

i agree as far as western animation is concerned.

People became softened, annoying isn't it?

What about adventure time? Does the magical donkey show has it?

>No mention of Adventure Time or Gravity Falls
>The two cartoons that jump started this recent trend

In cartoons I agree it's limited to a couple of trendsetters, but as far as webcomics and comics go, its almost completely universal.

Even light tone joke comics have to have some kind of ongoing plot these days, and the interconnected universe event shit is practically what sucked the fun out of superhero comics for a lot of people.

It's especially bad with webcomics, though, especially because of lack of editors to keep basic things in check. Just look at stuff like paranatural. Fuck, just look at any webcomic and chances are if it's not a gag strip it's some convoluted OC twenty volume story that has a Neverending current chapter.

Fucking it hurts of all things is the only current webcomic I can think of that has gone through its arcs into an actual conclusion. Fuck, it's the only one that even has character arcs instead of vague let so fanny joke character "moments" instead of characterization.

I think the use of lore can greatly benefit shows that properly utilize them. The problem comes forth when a) they rely ONLY on that lore (i.e, 'deepest lore' as OP put it) or when they're attempting serious lore in an episodic series. Lore is fantastic for long-term stories, like ALTA or the newest season of Samurai Jack. Things like SU and Adventure Time take the concept of worldbuilding, shit on it, and then attempt peddling it to the lowest common denominator so they feel like they're somehow smarter than they actually are.

Only cartoon I've seen properly implement lore in an episodic format is Rick and Morty. Everything is that tried has been shit tier.

Nobody cares about them anymore, one is cucked of its former self, while the other is ded. Soon to join them is Steven Fillerverse.

>Why is it that the most creatively free field of comics is so fucking entrenched in mediocrity?
Because if there's no barrier to entry, then you're gonna have to sift through a lot of shit to find the gold. Not that that's a bad thing.

>Can we talk about how shitty the whole "comfy" trend is, while we're at it?
>What happened to breaking boundaries, defying expectations and social norms, pushing the viewer to have a different and new and extreme experience thst will leave them different than when they came in?
There are plenty of webcomics that (try) do that though.
>Unsounded
>Gunnerkrigg Court
>Homestuck
>Endtown
>It Hurts
>Freakangels
>Phoenix Requiem
>Dr McNinja
>Girl Genius
etc

Slice of life is just easier to make, and apparently the "comfy" genre has enough people that like it to keep it going strong. Nothing wrong with that. Not like it's stopping people from trying new things.

>homestuck
Kickstarter was a mistake. Hussie should focus on finishing the comic first.

>Post modernist thinking says you shouldn't learn from the old masters, and should just indulge in critical theory based art that puts little importance on technical craft
>generation after generation becomes a customer to this being how art is supposed to be
>nobody learns from the old masters or what took them years to learn themselves
>so they make mistakes and create problems thst were solved decades ago, but nobody listened, so it all unravels into bad art

To become a master, you must become a student. Of the old masters And if you're too proud to become a student, then you are a fool and master of nothing.

wwhy did hussie abandon us?

>Things like SU
no, lore is pretty neat in that show

Do any if those comics really have anything to say, besides being pet projects and money makers for the artists?

I honestly don't think any of them have any legitimate artistic merit. They're pop art, nothing more, maybe less.

or you could make whatever you want and be successful

can you define "anything to say"? is that different from exploring a theme or having the "point" to the story? its having meaning, yes?

>Do any if those comics really have anything to say, besides being pet projects and money makers for the artists?
Read them and find out. Gunnerkrigg, Unsounded and Endtown in particular get into multilayered thematic arcs and solid character development.
>I honestly don't think any of them have any legitimate artistic merit
>merit: the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.
Gunnerkrigg Court alone has won multiple awards and received praise from Neil Gaiman, so you're objectively wrong.

>mfw people in this thread don't know what actually started this trend

It was the internet. Or more specifically, netflix and co.

When people can binge watch an entire series all at once, or can watch the episodes in order at their own pace, making continuous shows is much more possible.

Personally I think both have their advantages and disadvantages.

because he lost his way

Well, and this might just be a personal taste thing, but I've noticed that very few webcomics have an actual point.

What I mean is, aside from filling your time with a story, they do very little to convey some kind of message to you beyond the literal, and I don't mean some vapid political commentary.

You see an ultra violent horror movie with themes of social decay and media, you get something out of it, the idea that we will be outraged by fake horror but still find ourselves entranced by real violence and even allow it to happen for selfish reasons. You see something like a movie about someone slowly deteriorating into an evil person, you can get some commentary on how any of us could turn into an evil person given the circumstances. Heck even if you get something that isn't explicitly about a specific thing as much as some atmospheric feeling, that can still leave you thinking differently about how you interpret those sorta of feelings or why you feel that way.

So what I mean is, with other media, while technical proficiency is good, it's often just a means to an end to correctly communicate the actual message of an art piece, wether it be very direct, or abstract and up to interpretation.

With webcomics, for the most part they lack the technical proficiency that can make even vapid films like die hard enjoyable, and they lack the je ne c'est pas of true art. They lack communication and often feel like they exist for the sake of existing, to waste your time and give you nothing in return for putting the time into it.

I'm not asking for some grand theological story about redemption here, but why should something be given the time of day if it gives you nothing in return for it? Good art should leave you with something you didn't have before that you couldn't have gotten from someone just telling it to you. Someone telling you not to put your hand over some fire isn't the same as seeing a psa of someone getting their hand burnt off.

And I'll say that what I notice in the majority of webcomics, and I really do mean the vast bulk where the exceptions can be counted on one hand, is that they follow trends like anything else. But they're very commercially driven, the way most webcomics operate is to lead a viewer on a neverending cycle of of lead ins. It's very masturbatory and expects the audience to fall in love with the author's character, work, and the author themselves, and isn't conductive to artistic comunication. Sometimes an author might have an idea to introduce a topic, but a topic isn't the same as a cohesive artistic message that underlies the entire product.

And the thing is, the fact that a lot of comics are so limited actually does limit how many people bother to make quality content, because the audience for webcomics expects a certain kind of content and the exposure for things that are beyond the scope of that is severely limited by groups that propagate the same sort of content. And if the exposure is stunted, there's little reason not to take other avenues of expression. If you don't follow the trends, you don't even really get noticed, and if you do follow them, it's only due to technical proficiency moreso than actual artistic message.

Its an example of a bar set so low ot drags even the good stuff lower because of it.

Very well put. I love lore in any story when its done right, but sadly most cartoons fail to so. (An example being gravity falls and steven universe)

so you're not actually tired of lore, you're tired of weak episodes and poor pacing.

go with that, then. 'guys I'm tired of all the weak episodes and poor pacing in cartoons'

>this might just be a personal taste thing
>They lack communication and often feel like they exist for the sake of existing, to waste your time and give you nothing in return for putting the time into it.
>but why should something be given the time of day if it gives you nothing in return for it?
It is a personal taste thing. You're making these grand, sweeping statements (based on personal preference) about an entire medium, then trying to argue its artistic merit from the wishy washy position of your own personal taste. Which is pretty fucking retarded. Yeah, I'm sure all the diehard fans of a webcomic who religiously follow it for years, talk about it on the forums, and produce fanart for it all "get nothing in return for it".
>Someone telling you not to put your hand over some fire isn't the same as seeing a psa of someone getting their hand burnt off
For some people the PSA would be a movie, for others, a webcomic, for others, a song, etc. It's almost like different people like different things and have different preferences and perceptions.
>je ne c'est pas of true art
Holy shit could you be any more of a pretentious faggot? That phrase in and of itself refers to an indescribable something that attracts someone to a thing. That something is obviously gonna be different depending on the person.

And I'll say that what I notice in the majority of movies, and I really do mean the vast bulk where the exceptions can be counted on one hand, is that they follow trends like anything else. But they're very commercially driven, the way most movies operate is to lead a viewer on a neverending cycle of of lead ins. It's very masturbatory and expects the audience to fall in love with the author's character, work, and the author themselves, and isn't conductive to artistic comunication. Sometimes an author might have an idea to introduce a topic, but a topic isn't the same as a cohesive artistic message that underlies the entire product.

And the thing is, the fact that a lot of movies are so limited actually does limit how many people bother to make quality content, because the audience for movies expects a certain kind of content and the exposure for things that are beyond the scope of that is severely limited by groups that propagate the same sort of content. And if the exposure is stunted, there's little reason not to take other avenues of expression. If you don't follow the trends, you don't even really get noticed, and if you do follow them, it's only due to technical proficiency moreso than actual artistic message.

Its an example of a bar set so low ot drags even the good stuff lower because of it.

And I'll say that what I notice in the majority of pornography, and I really do mean the vast bulk where the exceptions can be counted on one hand, is that they follow trends like anything else. But they're very commercially driven, the way most pornography operate is to lead a viewer on a neverending cycle of of lead ins. It's very masturbatory and expects the audience to fall in love with the author's character, work, and the author themselves, and isn't conductive to artistic comunication. Sometimes an author might have an idea to introduce a topic, but a topic isn't the same as a cohesive artistic message that underlies the entire product.

And the thing is, the fact that a lot of pornos are so limited actually does limit how many people bother to make quality content, because the audience for pornography expects a certain kind of content and the exposure for things that are beyond the scope of that is severely limited by groups that propagate the same sort of content. And if the exposure is stunted, there's little reason not to take other avenues of expression. If you don't follow the trends, you don't even really get noticed, and if you do follow them, it's only due to technical proficiency moreso than actual artistic message.

Its an example of a bar set so low ot drags even the good stuff lower because of it.

And I'll say that what I notice in the majority of novels, and I really do mean the vast bulk where the exceptions can be counted on one hand, is that they follow trends like anything else. But they're very commercially driven, the way most novels operate is to lead a viewer on a neverending cycle of of lead ins. It's very masturbatory and expects the audience to fall in love with the author's character, work, and the author themselves, and isn't conductive to artistic comunication. Sometimes an author might have an idea to introduce a topic, but a topic isn't the same as a cohesive artistic message that underlies the entire product.

And the thing is, the fact that a lot of novels are so limited actually does limit how many people bother to make quality content, because the audience for novels expects a certain kind of content and the exposure for things that are beyond the scope of that is severely limited by groups that propagate the same sort of content. And if the exposure is stunted, there's little reason not to take other avenues of expression. If you don't follow the trends, you don't even really get noticed, and if you do follow them, it's only due to technical proficiency moreso than actual artistic message.

Its an example of a bar set so low ot drags even the good stuff lower because of it.

can you name some webcomics (and maybe some normal comics too) that you feel successfully communicates ideas? this sort of topic's relevant to my interests

girl genus has fallen down the rabbit hole of "GET ON WITH IT!!" every couple of god damn pages the main plot derails to deal with some new crisis.

I only really see it in Adventure time and Gumball.

Both shows keep on wasting time on random origin episodes over and over again