What was the point of killing The Comedian? To get Rorschach to start looking into things? How did that benefit Oz's plans?
What was the point of killing The Comedian? To get Rorschach to start looking into things...
Rorshach's involvement was not planned no, and Comedian was killed because he knew about Veidt's plan and while he had not told anyone yet he was a loose end that couldn't be left alone.
Iirc the Comedian suspected Ozzy was up to something
To stop Comedian from talking because he discovered Oz's plan.
My understanding is that The Comedian would be one of the only dude smart and cynical enough to see through Oz's schemes and therefore was a threat.
He was killed because he was "knew" the plan, and was breaking down feeling, they thought he might talk or do something, so they got to him first.
Rorschach wasn't part of the plan, but Oz probably knew he would go snooping around, but it didn't matter. Because it really didn't.
My favorite part of this movie was the the ethical exhanges and discourse you see in all the characters. Rorschach was deontological, and everyone else was Utilitarian, no better than the governments.
It was Ironic, because Rorschach didn't believe in God, but had the uncompromising ethics of the truly religious.
God damn, I love this comic.
How did a retired drunk like the comedian figure out Veidt's plan?
>God damn, I love this comic.
Same, it's a shame the movie butchered it.
Thanks for clearing it up for me guys :)
His apathy toward humanity made him see clearly the schemes and plots. He was a mirror, and the mirror can see everything.
Why was the Watchmen even made into a movie it's hailed because of its a quintessential example of comics as a medium. It's like making a live action version of NGE by taking it out of the medium it was intended to be and utilized to its greatest extent it would be invariably missing of the most important aspects of its essence and what made it so good in the first place.
Don't bother, the movie is a mess compared to the Comic book.
Why didn't Oz kill him in a more inconspicuous way. Make it look like an accident or something. Then maybe Rickshaw wouldn't have started snooping around.
He wasnt retired.
He saw the island and investigated it, saw a lot of the missing people and some of Veidt's shit was there. He followed the money and did a lot of digging, found almost all the files Rorshach and owl did and put it all together quickly because of who he is
did you watch the movie?
>but Oz probably knew he would go snooping around, but it didn't matter. Because it really didn't.
I think it was more Oz was a arragant prick and didn't think anyone else could connect the dots.
In the book it was because he saw the island where they were trying to genetically engineer the weird ass alien to attack New York
this
Ah, I've only seen the movie
He was a loose end who was going crazy and couldn't be trusted not to talk. Knowing Rorschach was investigating, Veidt staged his own assassination
Quick reminder that there are people on THIS vietnamese knitting forum, AT THIS EXACT MOMENT, that think that a giant alien is better than an evil Dr Manhattan for Oz's plans.
Who would believe the Comedian though? I always assumed he burned bridges with everyone in the superhero community.
Watchmen got made into a movie because people won't shut up about the comic.
was the squid long alive before it was sent to town and exploded or just "activated" moments before. Because it wasn't put together in just a day, but also died alsmost instantly (as it's organs were just made up bullshit to look alien to investigators).
Better question is why Adrian didn't kill Rorschach knowing that Rorschach will try to find out who's killing Watchmen?
Oz would of recruited him and Manhattan if he could have
I was also on that side of the fence until I asked on this board why the evil alien was a better thing. The best explanation I got was that if the russians though manhattan was attacking them they would've just nuked america without a second thought. I still think that's kinda dumb because nobody would launch a nuke without checking out what the fuck is happening first but it's at least sorta plausible.
that's unfortunate for you
A) wasnt some retired no name. He was a battle hardened psycho whos been doing this for years and always on the look out for people to kill him.
B) It was a 2 fold attack plan. Surprise him at home when hes not readily available to his gear and then make it look like a robbery. Anyone who didnt know who he was wouldnt just see a normal robbery, Anyone who did would just see it as an older, aged out and battle worn hero taking by surprise and time just got the best of him. Only one who would see anything else is rorsh, and no one believed him anyway. And if they did, its more digging in the wrong direction.
It was the best plan and it would have worked if not for the journals
>knocking over Marxist republics in South America
>retired
You mean active government assassin?
Rorschach is an Alex Jones level conspiracy theorist whom the general public wouldn't believe. Adrian thought he was harmless, at least before Doomsday Clock.
yes because the entire world wouldn't unify against an American war machine
I like to think that America's enemies are all bark and no bite. They talk a big game about overthrowing the US, but when it comes time to do the deed the wuss out.
until they make the ENTIRE world their enemy because their butt naked blue superhero destroyed their capitals.
This movie came out 10 years too early.
The American war machine that just attacked America, you mean?
>Who would believe the Comedian though? I always assumed he burned bridges with everyone in the superhero community.
Rorshach for starters, he had a deep respect for The Comedian's success streak. Even if he didn't like the other aspects. His abilities to do what needed to be done was enough for Ror to turn a blind eye and idolize him.
it attacked everyone. Everyone would blame America for their hubris.
America almost got nuked due to cloud coverage in the 80s if not for one guy being REALLY vigilant
Dr. Manhattan has no personality and admitted himself that he only does things because the Government told him to. The Vietnam War was won because Nixon asked Dr. Manhattan to intervene. It's possible the War on Terror would've been trivialized if Bush asked Manhattan to do the same.
>Who would believe the Comedian though?
He had close bonds with the American government as he was more or less an agent of the US.
correct me if I'm wrong the squid activated and was killed by it's own neural nuke when it was transported.
Dr. Manhattan is an American creation. He's the face of American might. He nuked NY, but he nuked everywhere. America would get the blame. Also he's an unkillable god so what the fuck can you even do by banding together?
The Alien is an outside threat, it's a fucking ALIEN. It is beyond borders, beyond humanity. So they unite to face it.
No european world power would have thought twice about invading the US 100 or so years ago, the British or German navies alone could have turned American cities into ghost towns in weeks just by blocking all trade and the capital could be easily locked down just as it was in 1812.
>this thread
I unironically can't tell anymore if people are retarded or merely pretending. It's "Rust was shooting at G*d" all over again.
Would all the musicians of the world unite to create a song about The Alien, or Dr. Manhattan?
Dr. Manhatten would believe him, maybe if Comedian contacted him it would have spurred a different course of events.
That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. The whole point is Manhattan presents a threat large enough the whole world is forced to unite to stand against him. You're positing some scenario wherein Manhattan actually isn't that much of a threat, so the Reds think they can take him on alone and go ahead and attack America as if they were trying to teach them some sort of lesson.
At no point is this stated in the movie. Further, people change. Manhattan clearly does, which is why he decides to leave. The notion that the world would think this some elaborate false flag rather than what all the evidence overwhelmingly points to is absurd.
He was the best part of the movie. If he hadn't been killed he would have stolen the show completely. He had to be stopped.
>The Comedian, a heartless monster who accepted the faults of humanity almost wholeheartedly, was crushed when he realised the paragon of justice and purity in the world was as bad as everyone else, even worse
>mfw it's never alluded to again or in any detail but the failing of the best person he knew crushed him, despite his overt nihilism
I've put my copy in my bedside drawer to reread it, I might manage to do so after Christmas.
The movie shows that Dr. Manhattan doesn't care about humanity or it's problems until the last part when it's time to confront Adrian. By the time he changes, it's already too late to avert a disaster and he fucks off to another planet to play God. In his origin, he pretty much spells out that he participated in the Vietnam War because Nixon asked, something previous presidents didn't do.
in the movie he was spying on adrian so after he found out the plan he had to be killed. In the comic book he accidentally discovers adrian's plan while on an unrelated secret mission, in both version he has an identity crisis afterwards and he is not sure if he should even stop adrian- so adrian kills him to not have any chances
This movie really should not have existed. It was plain as day Snyder only liked Watchmen for the sex scenes, killing people and the giant squid. It was a bad adaptation.
All of this is completely irrelevant to how things have been presented. You're acting as if the world at large was privy to Manhattan's inner thoughts and motivations. They are not. All they see is an extremely powerful individual who has gone rogue and began attacking the earth indiscriminately. How Manhattan actually feels has no bearing on this.
how did rorshach have time to solve ozzy's case when he's always clownin' around?
That's because him, Silk Specter I, and Hollis were the only three dimensional characters in the movie aside from Rorschach.
>100 years ago
1917 was pretty much when America became a superpower on level with any other if not more so.
FaFa isnt it time for that nice "Sweidsh" nurse to tuck you in?
He did tell someone: Moloch.
That's why Viedt killed him.
the comedian only wanted to do violence, he didn't care about fighting evil, and sided himself with powerful people to be able to do so legally
He was not straight up evil, the only evil things he does is attempting a rape at 15, and shooting a woman after he ditches her and she smashes a bottle- in this last case it's more ambiguous because he does next to Dr Manhattan which has god like powers so maybe he expected to be stopped.
He ultimately cared about the girl he tried to rape and his daughter, and about the faith of the world- he believed maybe adrian was right.
Of course Adrian was not right and the only morally defensible character in the whole series is Rorshach, which if I remember correctly did literally nothing wrong or reprehensible
Ah that's right, forgot Moloch
>killing dogs, murdering people with knives, threatening to throw people down a shaft is morally defensible
He's mentally unhinged, hence his black and white views on the world. Like your crazy, religious father who tightens his belt when he feels hunger pains because he knows eating your whore of a mother's food will send him to hell
We never see much of the world in the film because it focuses more on the characters. In the comic book the world gets more focus to show how devastating the Squid's attack will be on a major metropolitan city.
Launch on warning is a thing. Especially if a NUDET is detected on your own soil.
Honestly, I always saw Rorschach as a loser (well, not "always" because 13-year old me thought he was hardcore).
Rorschach puts up this front of absolute moral superiority because he can't reckon with the idea that good people can do bad things--and perhaps even more terrifying: those bad things can have good consequences. I don't think he sees the world in black-and-white because of some supreme moral duty, but because he's a developmentally-stunted manchild who demands the world to be perfect and then throws a tantrum when it simply isn't so.
I think Rorschach is the closest thing to a real villain Watchmen has.
as I said I'm not sure he did even one thing that was morally reprehensible. For a post modern story I always found it weird how the comic book had a pure goody two shoes in the form of Rorshach who didn't literally do anything wrong
>killing dogs,
what? THe attack dogs who ate the little girl? Wtf is the problem with beating them up a little bit too enthusiastically?
>murdering people with knives, threatening to throw people down a shaft is morally defensible
You mean fighting criminals with knives (I don't remember this to be h) or elevator shafts?
because movie has real people captured by a real camera that absorbs real light. Adapting to film is for uncultured plebs who can appreciate art and need the most realistic medium to provide the best escapist experience.
You really have no choice of the size or scope of the USN after Ww1, do you?
Spoiler, the RN gave up the title of King of the seas a long time ago and Germany never had a Navy of substance.
>Why was the Watchmen even made into a movie it's hailed because of its a quintessential example of comics as a medium.
I remember having the exact same stupid opinion 10 years ago. Watched the movie finally this year and was surprised at how good it was
They butchered Oz. First with the actor choice, second by completely cutting his chapters. Its THE most vibrant aside Manhattan's.
I don't know about the movie, which didn't really concentrate on a logical plot so much as muh Snyder slow-mo sex scene visuals.
But, in the comic, The Comedian is killed because he saw the secret island where Veidt had gathered all the artists and scientists to make the squid monster. Somehow he put two and two together and figured out what Veidt planned to do. Therefore he had to be silenced.
He was already getting ready to spill the beans, hence the scene where he tells Moloch about how he doesn't find Veidt's plan funny.
Rorschach was a negligible threat. Veidt obviously didn't think he'd get very far and knew that he could be dealt with eventually. He also didn't count on the other masked heroes to try to stop him, although he knew Dr. Manhattan would, hence the tachyon weapon he utilizes to muddle Doc's ability to see the future.
Read the comics. The movie sucks.
A better question is
What happened to the American dream?
Dumbest line in the whole damn movie.
I'll give you a hint: it makes sense in the graphic novel
stop reddit spacing. I don't even fucking care about meme website wars, just stop typing like that. it makes shit incredibly difficult to read
>All they see is an extremely powerful individual who has gone rogue and began attacking the earth indiscriminately.
Yeah.
Except US marketed him as an American God. And used his as a walking nuclear weapon ready to strike anyone who opposed US (like in Vietnam). So yeah. Have fun believing the rest of the world (soviets especially) won't hold a grudge agains USA for making this kind of monster.
At least the giant squid wasn't from this planet and didn't have connections to anyone.
tl;dr illustrated picture books are for children
I guess OP didn't read the comic. The Comedian knew too much, so Ozymandias killed him.
Did you watch the movie? Veidt didn't have to kill Rorschach because Rorschach was never a threat. Veidt WON.
Watchmen isn't for children
I watched the movie billion times, I always eat beans when I watch it.
Did YOU watch the movie? Rorschach sent the notebook with the whole truth to the newspaper
nigger he literally started killing criminals when he realized how evil some people can be. Good people can't do bad things, they become bad people as soon as they do. He never once claimed to be a paragon of justice, he's just a mentally unhinged hobo punishing other mentally unhinged people who cause pain.
what alien
Again, the point is the threat is too great to go at it alone. You're imagining this as if the world ignores the looming threat in favor of literally starting a global nuclear war because they are upset that this threat used to help America.
In the comic Oz made a giant fake alien to scare the nations of earth to be best buddies and stand up united against the alien menace.
>Watched the movie finally this year and was surprised at how good it was
Watch it. People 'round these parts don't approve of kino.
Veidt LOST due to the events of Doomsday Clock.
fpbp
Just like the Alan Moore dissected the superhero genre and showed its ugly underbelly.
Snyder decided that he would use the medium of film to dissect the superhero film genre in the same way. A la bat nipples on ozzy and senseless violence that bodies love.
Honestly if you didn't understand what Snyder was doin with his movie YOU are literally the MORNIN you make fun of so much on Sup Forums.
>Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.
Rorschach was too stubborn. Veidt lets him go because he figures he'll die in the Antarctic cold anyway, but Dr. Manhattan makes sure he's killed because he is the final loose end. Well, except for the journal that he sent to that right-wing newspaper, but that's an open ending.
In the comics, Rorschach's death is basically shown as a mercy killing. He yells at Manhattan to "Just do it!" through tears.
>still mad about Squids
>Veidt WON
For a time.
>be smrtest man alive
>protect your computer filled with ultra top secret files with password that can be guessed in three tries
Mornin = normie
If that is a sequel, how the fuck is Roschach there?
>BOYS
what did he mean by this?
He survived. His wounds weren't as severe as they looked.
What did he want to save our world from?
it's Rorsschach 2, there's a black guy under the hood
Remember to support your local Win-O' Thread and read it.
Mutually-assured destruction from the Cold War.
>less complicated
>proceeds to the DCU