Do you ever think Zack is kinda right about him?

Do you ever think Zack is kinda right about him?

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All he knows about him is that he looks cool when he's angry with red glowing eyes. That's quite literally the extent of his knowledge on him.

How so?

That Snyder is right to dislike him? Or that he needs to be deconstructed? Or that superheroes can't communicate with each other while wearing capes?

there isn't a right Superman, there are different versions of him, zack's one is just another one, you may like it or not.

I think there is a compelling story to be told about the public not trusting Superman at first in a post 9/11 anti-immigrant climate before eventually earning that trust. I don't think he needed to draw that story out over two movies while also weaving that narrative with others that distracted from it. I think Waid and Morrison did a better job telling that story in Birthright and New 52 Action respectively.

I think there is a compelling meeting of the World's Finest that could be told with Superman resenting the extreme lengths Batman goes to in his mission, with Superman not being trusted by Batman because of the degree of his being an outsider, as well as Batman's experience to not hope in or trust many because of the betrayals and loses he may have experienced since first donning the cowl. I think the two could be shown to realize the virtuous pursuit they recognize in the other and find camaraderie in that more than anything else.

I think Snyder has demonstrated a capacity to be so right on some and so wrong on the other things, that would he be put on a leash and overseen by someone directly affiliated with DC, he could potentially produce the things he gets right while also having the things he gets wrong corrected at the conceptual phase, which could lead to incredible movies that would feel more like a standard comic published by DC and less like a DCU book written by Frank Miller intending to have the depth of an Alan Moore book, but failing miserably to do so.

No one's saying Zack's version is wrong. We're saying it's shitty.

But Snyder is incapable of producing anything other than garbage, so he is wrong about Superman as he is wrong about everything.

>I think Snyder has demonstrated a capacity to be so right

Nope.

No.

user, the first flight in MoS was fantastic.
The collage of him saving people in BvS was fantastic.
When it comes to pretty images, he can nail it. Everything beyond that gets into decreasing degrees of not good. The guy is not universally bad. Just most of the time.

>But Snyder is incapable of producing anything other than garbage
?
300 is objectively well made.

>The collage of him saving people in BvS was fantastic.

You mean sad dour Super-Jesus gazing down on people worshipping him?

It's a perfect encapsulation of everything wrong with Snyder's Superman.

>When it comes to pretty images, he can nail it.

A dull gray, monotonous world isn't pretty.

>The guy is not universally bad.

No, he's fractally terrible: the whole is terrible and every individual part is also terrible.

Yes, Frank Miller did a good job.

?
Zack Snyder made a movie that adapted Frank Miller's comic beautifully.
Was Kubrick a hack for making adaptations?

He is.

t. nu-male

Jeez. I mean, If you ask me if I like MoS or BvS I'm gonna say no to both. I'm so bummed over the zero hype I feel towards JL. Man though bro. I wouldn't say he fucks up 100% of the time. To each their own though. I mean personally I thought saving the rocket and dragging the ship was pretty cool. Yeah though, the dour bummed out guy sucked.

yikes mate
You're almost as far gone as Mark Waid.

>he's fractally terrible: the whole is terrible and every individual part is also terrible.
Save for future laffs.

lol kubrick didn't copy a comic book word-for-word, visual for visual. Frank Miller should have gotten cinematography and script credits for it for how much Snyder aped, same with Sin City.

Miller is more on par with Kubrick in terms of being a visionary than Snyder. You're a fucking idiot.

You an absolute retard and didn't understood shit in the movie. You need to either shut up, or stop reading comics and watching cartoons, you clearly need to educate yourself before having a Cape related hobby.

You missed the entire point of the montage

That's not true. He also knows he csn be used as a Jesus analogy.

And he seems to think he's the first one to have come up with that.

>If you ask me if I like MoS or BvS I'm gonna say no to both.

Good, that means you have a functioning brain.

>I'm so bummed over the zero hype I feel towards JL. Man though bro.

Why? Snyder and Co. have poisoned the DCEU and any chance it could have of being good. You should be bummed by that, by how badly they've killed any hope of getting good DC movies.

You, like all good people, should be praying fervently every day for JL to fail as hard as possible so WB shuts down the DCEU. Then maybe we might get good DC movies when they try again in a decade or so.

>To each their own though.

No, the people who mistakenly think they liked MoS or BvS need to kill themselves immediately. Something is broken inside of them. This isn't being mean or hateful, it's for their sake.

>You missed the entire point of the montage

SUPERMAN = JESUS

AKA the only idea Snyder seems to have about Superman.

"Superman is like Jesus and must suffer for us" is the most base-like pretentious read of the character.
It's the equivalent of going "Batman isn't actually good because punching criminals is wrong because the criminals were created by society" levels of pretentious discourse.

It takes the most basic aspect of the character, strips everything that goes against that very idea and digs some depth from that point.

Hello mickey.

The only thing to laugh at is people mistakenly thinking anything Snyder does could ever have meaning or value.

I say they're mistaken because it's not possible to like or have a positive opinion about Snyder or his work. If you think you do you have committed an error or are just being contrarian.

He is objectively garbage.

>No, the people who mistakenly think they liked MoS or BvS need to kill themselves immediately. Something is broken inside of them. This isn't being mean or hateful, it's for their sake
I want a documentary about your life and what led you to this point.

>Why?
It's a live action Justice League movie. I've loved the Justice League since I was a kid. I wish I could be hyped out of my mind over the fact that we're getting it THIS YEAR. I just look at what we've seen, and it comes off as more of what we've already got that I didn't like. I'm bummed because I want to be excited but am not because I've been burned by the director enough times to expect nothing but shit that is going to piss me off.
>No, the people who mistakenly think they liked MoS or BvS need to kill themselves immediately.
Come on man. That's not cool. I just meant To each their own in the sense that you and I can vary in the degree of how much we dislike the DCEU without needing to fight with one another.

i thought MoS was good, but you retards just wana see supes save cats from trees and help old people cross streets

>not muh superman

Nice meme.

>It's a live action Justice League movie. I've loved the Justice League since I was a kid.

That's WHY you should hope with every ounce of your spirit every moment of the day for the Justice League movie to fail. If you really love the JL, you want them to be in something good, and with Snyder there's no hope of that. The well has been irreversibly poisoned.

This is what separates a fan from a mindless fanboy. A fanboy will slavishly support and praise anything that involves their obsession. A fan is okay letting something terrible involving what they like fail because it's better to have nothing than a bad product.

MoS didn't work on its own merits.

Oh fuck off, there's plenty of reasons to dislike MoS that go beyond "not muh". Goyer's script being one of them.

crass as it is, i have to agree with the response. 300 was basically a storyboard, and snyder is only ever good for literally animating frames from comic books.

Why is it that everyone who likes capes on this board is a sperg?

>created by Jews
>dude Superman IS Jesus
shiggy

About what?

>Jesus was a Jew
>the original super Jew

>you guys! You guys! Quality is subje- you guys listen!
>quality is subjective you guys! There is no objective quality you guys!
>so your opi- your opinion on the quality of a thing doesn't count, you guys! Cause it's subjective! So quality should never be commented on, you guys. By anyone

We literally have a montage with him saving people, doing incredible stuff and the media talking if he has the right to do it, if people seeing him as a savior is positive, how his existence changes everything, the last question is "what if he is just a guy trying to do some good?" and the montage gets cut to Clark being troubled at night and calling his mom for advice.


That's pure superman, thing is they don't want to see their foster father figure having doubts, they want him happy abd smiling to a child after he saves him in a war zone, obviously, he doesn't care or is affected by the dead or the suffering around him. He just smiles.

The statement you're responding to is value-neutral, though. It doesn't say that all the different versions are equal, just that there are many different versions of him and Snyder's is one.

Or see

>your opinion doesn't align with mine, and I'm super alpha so you must be ducked faggot!


Post pics. user. Show us your abs.

You opinion was garbage, your extreme hatred for Snyder over not muh stuff does indicate that it does affect you in a pretty faggy way. So yeah, he may be right you sound like a numale

I was being sincere. MoS and BvS are so obviously wrong, in both a quality and moral sense, that thinking otherwise is a sign that something is deeply wrong with you.

It MAY be possible that you could be healed, but the odds are low. And because there's something so wrong with you, it's going to cause misery in your life. You might as well just kill yourself to save yourself the trouble.

fuck you, i bet you think IM 3 and thor were masterpieces

>Or that he needs to be deconstructed?
>needs
why tho

>does affect you in a pretty faggy way.

As opposed to having your lips firmly wrapped around Snyder's cock?

Not really.

The only cinematic version of Superman I like is the Fleischer Superman.

I usually only like Superman in comics. So I don't really care about what Zack thinks of him.

Can you even have a thought doesn't fall into COMPANY WARS? Why does not liking a DC film automatically mean to you that someone likes everything, or even anything, Marvel does?

If you think really, really hard can you imagine that someone doesn't like MoS or BvS for reasons that have nothing to do with the Marvel films?

>SUPERMAN = JESUS
More like:
>People see Superman as Jesus but he's just a guy trying to do the right thing at the end.
But of course, people here are fucking retarded that they can't understand "basic symbolism".

Wasn't Jesus just a guy trying to do the right thing in the end too?

Yet he goes through all Jesus arcs save gathering apostles to spread his word.
The entire conflict of the movie was "They want you to be Jesus but you can choose what you want" and he choose "Be like Jesus" in the end. So you are only half right.

>

>
>That Snyder is right to dislike him?
Snyder loves superman and is right about the reaction of the world
>Or that he needs to be deconstructed?
He doesn't believe it needs to be deconstructed, just that is a story worth to tell
>Or that superheroes can't communicate with each other while wearing capes?

We don't know the dialog since that was scrapped, and he doesn't think they should not communicate, he directed watchmen. He believes that exposition should be in the he movie and not in the dialogs, that the Cape should be used when its needed. And he is right. Manchildren need to remember that for the general public a dark movie isn't the same as an action comedy movie and people eventually reacts in a different way to both. Cape comics are ridiculous, it's part of the magic and on print is easy to ignore, but on a different medium that changes, even young justice did that.

>But of course, people here are fucking retarded that they can't understand "basic symbolism".

You got that backwards, user. The Jesus symbolism Snyder uses in a repeated, hamfisted manner is so basic and blatant that it's like he just cracked open an Intro to Writing book and flipped to the chapter on symbolism.

There's a reason people make fun of Snyder for this, because his GUYS SUPERMAN IS JESUS GET IT shit is a laughably childish attempt at DEPTH.

What? Right about Superman being the truest form of altruism and a good person willing to sacrifice himself to save the world at any given time? Yeah, I guess so.

No you idiot, the point was that superman isn't God, a savior from outer space, or a fascist, he is just a good guy doing good, and that how people see him won't change that. You wanted to hate the escene so. Much that you blocked everything.

To be honest, it isn't really Zack.

It's Goyer.

MoS needed something like the boat scene in TDK, I like my Superman to believe that everyone has the capacity to be a good person.

>Snyder loves superman

This is demonstrably false. Snyder DESPISES Superman, it's why he gets the character so wrong.

>and he doesn't think they should not communicate, he directed watchmen.

Wrong again, user!

> But I came to the conclusion that they couldn't really talk in their suits with any credibility. We had to get them back in their civvies.” The scene where Clark and Bruce meet at Lex’s party, dressed in non-superhero clothes, was thus conceived.

>It was, says Snyder, an issue of tone - marrying the dark approach of DC’s burgeoning cinematic universe with its somewhat camper comic origins. “When they're in their super-suits, it was impossible [to get the Heat scene]. We tried it. It was just one of those things. If there are more than four or five lines, you start to notice – wait, these are two guys dressed up! One guy's dressed up like a bat and the other one has a big red ‘S’ on his chest, and it reads super serious...”

empireonline.com/movies/features/batman-v-superman-zack-snyder-10-things/

> Manchildren need to remember that for the general public a dark movie isn't the same as an action comedy movie and people eventually reacts in a different way to both.

Nope, this is the adolescent understanding of dark as "grim and edgy". It's CRAWLING IN MY SKIN

Snyder is the early 90s personified. He has a deep, abiding hatred for these characters and what they stand for, which is why he works so hard to strip them of meaning.

my main issue with snyder is how he never goes all the way. if you want to make a dark, edgy superhero story that explores philosophical points in a deep and intelligent way, go for it. if you want to go marvel and make kids movies that are formulaic but well made, that's ok too. but when you make a movie that masquerades as a deep intelligent movie with a very shallow script, artificial conflicts and plots that are ultimately resolved in a marvel like boss fight that completely undermines what little philosophy you've discusses in the build-up, it becomes a very frustrating and unenjoyable movie for almost everyone, the notable exception being people who feel they are intelligent and deep but are also fairly ignorant, like most people in the 13-17 age bracket.

>he is just a good guy doing good, a

Nope. Snyder took an Objectivist dump on that in MoS by destroying the Kents and having Pa Kent tell Clark not to save people.

Exept you clearly failed to get it, making your opinion completely wrong, you focus on the Jesus stuff so hard because is the only thing you mildly understand, superman is a sungod, just like Apollo, just like Jesus, Lex literally spell it out for you the audience. And you still didn't get it.

In the movie we see people reacting to him as a savior, we see people reacting to him as if he is godly, and we see that Clark Kent is just a farm boy that loves his mom and his gf and wants to impact the world as a journalist. You guys are so stupid that got the message backwards.

That's a quote of the movie, that is in that escene.

Stop talking about objetivism, when the only objectivist in the movie is Lex.

snyder is just building a what-if universe where the what-if is "what if superman was raised by objectivist cunts?" at some point we'll reverse flashpoint into a dc movie universe where superman is loved and cared for as a child.

As with MARTHA and the piss jar, we understand what Snyder was intending, but the execution was so laughably bad that the intended message was destroyed.

That's Snyder in a nutshell: incapable of depth or nuance, and too clumsy to execute interesting ideas anyone else gives him.

So, as with MARTHA and piss jar, just repeating what the intent was doesn't save the shit result.

ITT: Autists arguing over fucking nothing.

>cape fags uniroically comparing cape movies to Kubrick
I just want it to end. Kill the capes.

That never happens. Pa Kent tells Clark that his actions will change the world and that he needs to be ready. It's a worried dad, nothing more, and he was right, he also says that he doesnt have all the answers.

Isn't that Sup Forums (or the entire Internet) in a nutshell?

If people understood why keep naming Jesus?

>but the execution was so laughably bad that the intended message was destroyed.
I disagree.

Also
>we
Costanza.bmp

>That never happens.

Yes, it did. This didn't:

>Pa Kent tells Clark that his actions will change the world and that he needs to be ready. It's a worried dad, nothing more, and he was right, he also says that he doesnt have all the answers.

You just saw what you wanted to see, not what was on screen, because what was on screen was so fucking stupid.

>I disagree.

And you're wrong, yes.

>>we
>Costanza.bmp

The entirety of humanity who agrees that BvS was shit, yes. What aren't you understanding?

That's a good question for Snyder. Why keep ramming Jesus imagery down our throats?

>You just saw what you wanted to see, not what was on screen
no u
You have an inexplicable hatred for things you have yourself made up.

I feel bad for people like you, growing up only reading capeshit and watching cartoons really destroyed your habilities to understand what is in front of you.

>The entirety of humanity
Source?

You can't actually answer that question or your narrative breaks down.

There's a lot of imagery, thing is, the only you catch up is Jesus related.

The portrayal of the Kents and Superman, including that they encourage Superman to let people die, was and is a common complaint about MoS.

If it's something I made up I must have amazing psychic abilities to influence so many critics and regular commenters. I should think about using my fantastic powers to help people!

>Source?

Hey, it's the source guy! I missed you!

>You can't actually answer that question or your narrative breaks down.

The answer was already given: there's the repetition of Christ imagery because Snyder is a hack without subtlety or nuance who beats us over the head with his simplistic, middle school symbolism.

Wait, sorry, I meant: source?

if the criticism is that there's too much jesus imagery, how is saying there's also other imagery a counter-argument? he's not saying the amount of jesus imagery would be cool if the rest of the movie had other imagery as well, he's saying that the amount of jesus imagery he caught was too much and therefore distasteful.

Post the escene where they encourage him to let people die

Don't bother. These people are the ones who will just keep repeating CAPE KINO and 2DEEP4U at you.

They have so little knowledge or experience that any use of symbolism or imagery at all blows their minds and feels like the most sublime literature. They can barely understand the idea of symbolism to begin with, let alone its proper use.

But that isn't your criticism, your criticism is that Snyder believes superman is Jesus and that is false. You just jump from complaint to complaint.

i'm not that person and the post i replied to was replying to a post that said there were too many uses of jesus imagery and that they weren't subtle enough.

but yes, snyder obviously equates superman to the savior/messiah figure, of which jesus is one, and probably the one that was most influential to snyder.

Don't use the word literature you dumb Capefag, enjoy your geoff johns

Case in point.

>your criticism is that Snyder believes superman is Jesus and that is false

He is going to literally make him come back to life.

>b-but muh sun gods

It is even more stupid, because modern academy knows that most of these paralels with other cultures are forced as fuck or just plain wrong. Study.

>Clark Kent at 13: I just wanted to help.

>Jonathan Kent: I know you did, but we talked about this. Right? Right? We talked about this! You have...!

[calms himself]

>Jonathan Kent: Clark, you have to keep this side of yourself a secret.

>Clark Kent at 13: What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?

>Jonathan Kent: Maybe; but there's more at stake here than our lives or the lives of those around us. When the world... When the world finds out what you can do, it's gonna change everything; our... our beliefs, our notions of what it means to be human... everything. You saw how Pete's mom reacted, right? She was scared, Clark.

imdb.com/title/tt0770828/quotes

>What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?
>Maybe.

What a disgusting perversion of the Kents. Of course they're supposed to care about what might happen to Clark if he's discovered, but they would never, ever to tell Clark to "maybe" let people die.

It's Objectivist bullshit, and only human garbage don't see that.

the correct parental response here is to hug clark and tell him what he did was right but that he should be more careful in the future about his identity, and help him get accustomed to his powers.

if clark wasn't an alien capable of mass genocide by merely looking at people, the worst case would be an alcoholic farmer with daddy issues who drove his tractor into some cattle that one time. unfortunately for pa, he is a super-alien, and because of his retarded parenting clark wastes years of his life in isolation slowly driving himself insane.

>thinks it was a jesus analogy
>even though the movie made it explicitly clear that, despite all the comparisons people want to make, he is not jesus

Why do you guys keep saying there was SO MUCH JESUS IMAGERY and that HE WAS SO OBVIOUSLY JESUS GUYS.


Literally the entire point is that he isnt jesus. Despite all the parallels one can see, he is just a normal guy trying to do the right things. The public cast him either as super god or super demon, but he is neither. He is human. He literally dies to prove that he is human and just wants to do the right thing.


Also out of the whole 2 hours + of film, I think there are like 2 jesus images in the whole of BvS. You got his death looking like that one painting of the women carrying Jesus' body, and you got pic related which is also a Superman Returns reference.


MAYBE you could count carrying the boat as carrying the cross, but I really feel like thats reaching.

>"Superman is like Jesus and must suffer for us" is the most base-like pretentious read of the character.


But thats literally the opposite of the point of the movie.

The movie says Superman is not jesus, but he chooses to save/suffer for us because he loves us. And he dies because of it.

Yes it did.

Yeah, Snyder's portrayal of a being from Heaven born and raised among men who spends his time agonizing over his role as a savior and experiences and overcomes moments of doubt and temptation to ultimately sacrifice himself to save mankind, only to rise from the dead, all the while the being depicted non-stop with images and symbols like pic related, certainly wasn't in any way a Jesus analogue.

Jesus is just the Moses archtype again.


>Man from distant land discovers his connection to god
>Adopts a new people as his own and protects them
>promises to deliver them to a promised land (or in Jesus' case heaven)
>suffers for the people's sins

> he is just a normal guy trying to do the right things. The public cast him either as super god or super demon, but he is neither. He is human. He literally dies to prove that he is human and just wants to do the right thing.

Do...do you even know who Jesus is or his story? I'm not religious in the least but for fuck's sake it's like the most retold story in Western culture.

kys

>Jesus is just the Moses archtype again.

If you read academic Biblical scholarship (that is, non-religious study of the development of Biblical writing), this was intentional. The story of Jesus as it developed was purposefully made to conform to the existing Old Testament corpus (e.g., being a descendant of the House of David, allusions to Elijah, etc.)

> I like my Superman to believe that everyone has the capacity to be a good person.

But he did and does have that. Thats why he trusts Zod in MoS to leave earth when he hands himself over (but Zod doesnt do this)


Thats why he trusts Luthor is good until the end when proven otherwise.


Thats why he trusts everyone at the senate hearing and didnt even entertain the possibility of a bombing.


Thats why he tries he gives Batman the chance to just retire after their first encounter (the Bat is dead, bury it), despite Batman killing innocents. Its why he tries to talk to Batman during their second encounter, its why, even on his deathbed, he pleads with Batman to save his mother and trusts him when he says he will.

Its why he trusts Wonder Woman.