Utopian Parallel

Saw some article about America being the first lesbian "latinx" superhero etc, and I got confused. I thought the Utopian Parallel was inhabited by only women? Would there be such things as Gay or Straight if there was only one gender? And is there different ethnicities in the Utopian Parallel? Shouldn't she be "Utopian"?

stop manquestioning the progession

By our standards she's lesbo because she's only attracted to her own gender.

I'm just genuinely curious. Couldn't find any explanation online and I find it funny that they're using a character who has never been descriminated against or has any connection to the "Latinx" culture to represent them.

>Would there be such things as Gay or Straight if there was only one gender?

There isn't only one gender. Just because she came from a place with only women doesn't make all the men in the place she's currently living not exist.

>Shouldn't she be "Utopian"?

Why can't Utopian also be Hispanic? If she has Hispanic appearance / traits then it's fine to call her Hispanic.

Why do you have to keep on asking these same questions?

>first lesbian "latinx" superhero

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Literally shaking here!

>Why do you have to keep on asking these same questions?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and bear in mind that this is just a wild ass guess, but he miiiiiiiiiiight be trolling. I only say that because almost every single post about women, lesbians, racial anything, white male superheros passing their mantles on to anyone who's not a white male, and everything regarding the character America Chavez has been trolling.

Just curiosity, really. I can't find anything saying whether men existed or not in the Utopian Parallel or how America was born. Was it through Pathernogenesis? Did they take a X chromosome from both her parents and grow her?

And I just wasn't sure about the whole Hispanic aspect or if the writer was just adding it in. Martian Manhunter can take on the appearance of an African American but you wouldn't say he represents them.

> If she has Hispanic appearance / traits then it's fine to call her Hispanic.
>it's ok to force identity politics on someone because they look the part

I assure you I'm just curious if anyone had answers.

Interesting question: Would there be all these women there whose genetic predisposition is to be straight who would just go through their lives sexually unfulfilled? Or would this society have just genetically engineered women via whatever cloning technology they use to reproduce to remove the genes responsible for undesirable sexual orientations?

It's not politics, it's just what the character is. Her last name is Chavez and she's clearly drawn as a Hispanic girl. It's like acknowledging Superman is a white man. Just because they came from places other than Earth doesn't mean they aren't still displaying easily recognizable traits that fall under race / sex categories. There's nothing preventing the Utopian Parallel from being an alternate reality where everyone is female and genetically configured the same way Hispanic people are in regular reality. At worst you can complain that's an unexpected coincidence and that it'd be more likely for her to just look like some bizarre alien thing like a xenomorph, but those kinds of coincidences are pretty common in comic book worlds. Maybe there's an elaborate backstory for how Earth's Hispanic people secretly originated from the Utopian Parallel too and that's why they're the same.

>It's not politics, it's just what the character is.
That's what most identity politics are.

>There isn't only one gender. Just because she came from a place with only women doesn't make all the men in the place she's currently living not exist.

A monosexual human species would be biologically different than ours for obvious reasons. She shouldn't be lesbian because she shouldn't be just like our females.

>genetic predisposition to be straight

There wouldn't be any women with a genetic predisposition for having sex with a nonexistent lifeform. Your question is like asking about women in our world having a genetic predisposition to only be attracted to blazooglemaclopses when blazooglemaclopses don't exist. It doesn't make any sense to ask that question.

She shouldn't be identical in appearance to human women by that logic either, but she is. So deal with it. Maybe a wizard did it.

What is in the Dystopian parallel?

Well I'm presuming that they had males up until the point where they were all murdered or whatever it is that removed them from the world. I mean unless the first woman in that reality was just created independent of any natural process by the Celestials or something and there never were any men.

>Maybe a wizard did it.
We know that a wizard did it. His name was Billy and he married the king of space.

Apparently the Utopian Parallel was "created by the breath of and exists in the presence of the Demiurge"

She's not latinx though, she's latina. Montoya never had any bullshit gender identity politics associated with her.

>So deal with it.
No? I don't have to deal with shitty wrting faggot.

Straight men, rad motorcycles, steaks, and booze that flows like rivers.

There were never any men in the utopian parallel, it was created by a gay reality warper as a lesbian paradise. Though why a gay man would do that instead of just making the beefcake dimension, boggles the mind.

Because her original creators intended her to be just a super powered latina from earth 616, it was Gillen who came up with the bullshit origin she has now.

I thought Utopian Parallel was a plural?

>he's never seen a blazooglemaclops
Have you even looked at the astral plane recently?

Renee Montoya? Never heard of her.

Should have been more specific. First to have a Solo series.

Perhaps it was a mistake on his part. A half-completed ambition. Perhaps he envisioned this universe as a prison where all of the women would be banished so that he could enjoy a world of only men. But in envisioning this world of women, he created it thus in whole part rather than as an aspiration of where all the women would go once he rid Earth 616 of them.

You definitely do have to deal with it if you read basically any comics at all. This sort of situation is everywhere. Superman probably shouldn't look exactly like a white male human being but he definitely does. A more realistic story might involve aliens that look nothing like us and can't communicate with us because they don't magically speak English, but in most comics that's what you get.

RENEE MONTOYA?

NEVER HEARD OF HER.

I didn't write the articles!

Doesn't she has a male ex? i remember being mentioned in a series where she hanged out with kid loki and others. can't remember much else.

But in Superman's case he was found as an infant and rasied to think he was a white American. He grew up in the culture. Ms. America ran away from Utopian Parallel and spent years traveling to different dimensions before joining a superhero team on Earth.

Ultimate Nullifier. She was experimenting.

>Superman probably shouldn't look exactly like a white male human being but he definitely does.
But that's just him being normal. An alien who looks like an Indian lesbian is political correctness being shoved in the reader's face.

Mind you, that complaint has been used so trivially that it has no importance, but this is exactly the sort of thing it refers to: gays and minorities existing noticeably in media.

Holy ejaculation, you forgot the tight biker chaps.

Didn't a superman writer address this at one point with the birthing matrix shit?

Is general Zod British or Russian? No he is a Kryptonian and the only reason he speaks english is for the sake of the medium (american english comics).

Why someone from a technocolored female only "The jettsons" looking society would have any sort of association with the various metizo cultures of central and south america is absurd. Why she even speaks spanish or identifies as hispanic specifically is beyond me. She spent the majority of her life in the parallel and then with the young avengers/ultimates, why would she suddenly be Puerto Rican?

She is a human, but is a utopian, not a hispanic at all.

Also, being a central american, I honestly find the means in which they are protraying her to be straight offensive.

Chancletas, Vivaporu, selena, cafecito, mi gente, capicu, sotomayor is the moral hispanic virtue figure.

It all seems like someone who either hung out with Puerto Rican ghetto kids or got their understanding of hispanic culture from a George Lopez comedy special. It comes off as disingenuous to any actual latino or comic book fan.

$20 says next issue she talks about how delicious Horchatas are, how white people can't handle barbacoa, how something is needs some cholula on it, and that her 4 abuelitas were really mean and callous to her.

So she's appropriating a culture but the writers say "lol she's brown so it's okay"?

> I got confused. I thought the Utopian Parallel was inhabited by only women? Would there be such things as Gay or Straight if there was only one gender?

The answer for that is because you put more thought on this than the author

Stop overthinking shitlord

Basically.

Well she can associate herself with a culture if she wants, cultural appropriation is a bullshit concept.

Its the fact that ETHNICALLY she is labeled as hispanic when she is just being called that because the culture has been thrown on her and she also happens to be brown despite not representing hispanics at all.

She wasn't raised in hispanic culture, its inexplicable why she speaks spanish, and ethnically she is some dimensionally humanoid alien that just happens to have melanin similar to the typical idea of hispanics (despite us coming in all shades, but it has to be dark or it doesn't count, see kyle rayner)

Like are we gonna call Klingons black now?

>fictional character appropriating a culture

This is some tumblr bullshit and you know it. Stop pretending to be retarded.

>why green eyes, blonde Latina gf is somehow not Latina because some fucks in the USA are retarded
Fuck America, and America too.

It's technically a holdover from when she was just a hispanic flying brick, because back during vengeance she wasn't some inter dimensional Mary sue.

>This is some tumblr bullshit and you know it.
It really isn't, if culture appropriation is to have any meaning. Some random alien who clearly has no fucking clue about Latino culture acting like a retard while I claiming to be one has to be appropriation, or cultural appropriation isn't a thing.

I'm the same, green eyes and light brown hair cuban, but no i'm "white" until i start speaking spanish

Hookers and blackjack.

>Utopian Parallel was inhabited by only women?
>Utopian
>only women

I didn't know it was this bad.

She had a run on detective and was a lead in 52

>It really isn't
Try to explain how an inanimate, fictional character is capable of appropriating a culture. I'll wait.

I agree, it is tumblr bullshit. Like I think it's a dumb concept. I was just bringing it up to highlight the hypocrisy of the situation.

>Like are we gonna call Klingons black now?
Why are you always posting this?

Are you trying to argue the puppet argument when discussing a characters actions in-universe?

The writer us a hispanic american. But being a fat tumblr lesbian she probably doesn't have a great connection to her own culture.

Representation in media is about how us, the viewers, would contextualize something.
Like in that one show, the species is more or less asexual space rocks so they don't have a real equivalent to being lesbians. But they're still intended to be written as, and seen as lesbians.

Pretty much the same thing. You're applying the in-universe logic of 'the lesbian label is irrelevant for an entire culture of only women' to a situation that only exists on the level of creating and consuming the media.

>doesn't have a great connection to her own culture
That's the understatement of the year. The book reads as a series of edits meant to make her Hispanic without actually know what the social significance of any of the concepts has. The chancleta bullshit in particular angered me because of how separated from reality. Any woman threatening anyone but their kids with it is asking to be ridiculed.

So she is a lesbian because we're meant to view her as such?

No, she's a lesbian because Gillen wrote a shit story.

I was kind of saying the same thing about the Angels, specifically 82 White Chain, from the K6BD webcomic. I still like K6BD a whole lot but 82's gender dysphoria seemed kinda illogical to me.

>Martian Manhunter can take on the appearance of an African American but you wouldn't say he represents them.

I disagree. Icon from Milestone is actually an alien from outer space that just looks like a black man because his superman spaceship landed in a slave plantation in the south. And the crystal gems are consistently regarded as female space aliens, even though they're humanoid forms are arbitrary.

Considering the amount of cuthulu porn, I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Oh god, it means that straight women in her home universe are the equivalent of otherkin fetishists and furries.

It hasn't been explained but it could be an interesting thing to look at with a non-tumblr writer.

That last line is the first time I ever gave a damn about Blue Marvel. Ultimates is a good book.

>Icon from Milestone
>mimic'd the first sentient life-form who discovered him and lived several lifetimes as that

Yeah, that constitutes him literally taking on the identity and living and being raised in it.

According to her story, America became a Latina without any reason or context

>Ultimate Nullifier
wait, isn't that a cosmicaly powered gun? Like, can scare off galactus level of power?

Remember that the universe is esentially Wiccan's fan fiction. She's not appropriating anything. You could make the argument that Wiccan is appropriating hispanic culture in the creation of the universe. But no actual hispanics either in or out of universe seem to be objecting.

>Like are we gonna call Klingons black now?
Quaplah! Klingon Pride Worldwide!

Testing the concepts for logical consistency isn't the same as pretending to be retarded.

No. It's the readers identifying her as a lesbian that is more important than the actual social structures of her home universe AND 616 for that matter, or even the author's opinion of her.

Because he's happily married and had room in the making realities budget for one.

Alright, here's another idea. Original transformers. They send out a probe "EXPLORE EXPLORE, REPAIR REPAIR", and make themselves look like cars.

They're fully grown robots. The series tagline is literally "robots in disguise"

But pretty much only willis teir autists would object to calling them cars.

Calling her a Utopian is like calling ourselves Earth-Q-ians, Earth-33-ians, or Earth-1218-ians, or Quadwal_-3760.925_Theta-ians. It's all true, but it's not very specific. You can be an Earth-1218 white guy.

Also keep in mind that the Utopian Parallels were created by Wiccan, who was a person who lived in an Earth where Hispanics did exist. Some people there could be considered white, black, Hispanic, etc, in the same way that Marvel writers and artists can create black people and white people who aren't from this world.

Of course, this is completely different on whether or not she's being written well.

Maybe there's a utopian beefcake dimension that no one's heard of.

latin american here.
We don't call ourselves "brown". Hell, the author herself is whiter than fucking me. She lives in her own little world and pushes her fantasies and fetishes about what latin america culture is and it comes off as bizarre and phony.

This is what Sonic/Pokémon fans must feel when they read Sonichu. The words and mythos are familiar but everything is weird in an oddly specific manner.

It looks like the First Firmament stuff in Ultimates 2.0 might change up the exact origin of the Utopian Parallel a bit. Same with Noh-Varr even, maybe.

A car is a non-sentient object that has a function

Autobots are sentient objects that just pose as non-sentient objects with functions to cloak their presence.

So if a skrull went to earth, shapeshifted into a lamp with bioluminesous, sure it was temporarily a lamp, but that doesn't change anything about the skrull being a skrull and not a lamp.

Just because you call a skrull who changed from being a lamp back to a skrull a lamp doesn't mean its a lamp.

Just because you call an autobot a car who changed from a car back to an autobot acar doesn't mean its a car.

I just haven't seen enough context to determine what the Utopian Parallel actually is. It exists outside of time and the multiverse. Is she from the Utopian Parallel's version of Earth? Is Earth even a thing there?

There's no requirement that a car must be non sentient. We already have cars with fairly sophisticated AIs, and we'll eventually have ones with personalities.

And transformers in car mode can functionally do everything that a car can do.

And from a death of the author perspective, it matters more about how the readers view what the things are.

Didn't we also see this sort of thing when Mr Fantastic turned skrulls into cows and locked them into that shape?

Me neither, but there appear to be multiple planets in which humans live. It's probably something like a demiplane (if you know your fantasy/D&D terms), and so probably doesn't have an Earth.

Does anyone have those Marvel Handbooks? Perhaps that could shed more light than the stupid Marvel Wikia.

Either way, her identification is probably a shorthand for whatever culture there was where America grew up. Just like how many settings have "not" Vikings fight "not" Japanese fight "not" Germans: they aren't exactly like the Earth cultures, but are similar enough to be compared to them.

You type like a faggot. Not everyone who questions the terrible writing that surrounds this character is trolling

She was created from scratch. She's essentially a biological construct created in Utopia.

She wasn't "born" in the traditional way.