You know, some of the worst aspects of this movie is the story...

You know, some of the worst aspects of this movie is the story, and considering how faithful it is to the original source material, they are hardly Snyder's fault unless it was his responsibility to correct them, (which perhaps it should have been), meaning you have to blame the source material for some faults of the film.

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>worst aspects of this movie is the story
like what?

No, the worst aspects of the movie were the lack of colour (which the comic has plenty of), miscasting (Niteowl, Silk Spectre II and arguably Manhattan were badly cast, Keanu would have been a better Manhattan), and a blatant misunderstanding of the original author’s stance on violence, glorifying rather than going against it

Also the music sucked ass and they should have hired Vangelis to do it

the story is incredibly stupid, but snyder missed the point because it wasn't obvious in the movie that the characters were deconstructions. it went over his head.

>No, the worst aspects of the movie were the lack of colour (which the comic has plenty of), miscasting (Niteowl, Silk Spectre II and arguably Manhattan were badly cast, Keanu would have been a better Manhattan), and a blatant misunderstanding of the original author’s stance on violence, glorifying rather than going against it
>
>Also the music sucked ass and they should have hired Vangelis to do it


You are a moron.

I'm re watching it now and haven't finished, but some come to mind: no explanation as to why American history is so drastically different than what actually happened, Doctor Manhattan suddenly deciding to save the world because he falls back in love with his girlfriend, which is just as stupid as anything you would find in comic books which this is supposedly better than, almost as if his anti-social behavior and dooming the entire world is caused just by the fight he had with his girlfriend; the incredibly rushed ending where both sides just suddenly decide to be friends after an incident which they just assume is actually caused by Doctor Manhattan, that incredibly painful sex scene between two people that barely know eachother etc. I can't think of other things now, but I'm they'll occur to me later. If these are somehow different in the ''''''''''''''''''book'''''''''''''''''', or I clearly am too much of a brainlet to comprehend these as ingenious instances of storytelling, feel free to try to convince me of this fact.

>but snyder missed the point because it wasn't obvious in the movie that the characters were deconstructions

The entire movie is a deconstruction

it was a deconstruction of how much of a retard snyder is

The worst aspect of the movie is the slow motion action shit Snyder injects into everything.

Wrong. Terrible editing with nauseating blue filter. Misuse of unnecessary violence (there was no need for that arm to have a crispy clear external fracture) that removes the weight of the meaningful violence. Stupid ending that makes no sense.

>The entire movie is a deconstruction
So, what about the parts of the movie that are just as stupid as what you would find in your average capeshit flick?

Manhattan was fine imho. The problem with manhattan is how bad the cgi body looks when they could've just paint the actor blue

Great argument as expected from a manchild that takes his talking points from a retarded YouTube video that ignores all the politics and philosophical themes from the comic and focuses on shallow shit like the action and violence

>From the Visionary Director of '300'

You can't be serious

You mean like the squid in the comic? Because the comic can't escape the cliches of the genre just like the movie can't?

>or I'm clearly too much of a brainlet
Bingo

And don't tell me the ending in the book was so much better. The left is utterly ridiculous and Snyder was right to change it.

Go back to Sup Forums. If you dont know what visionary means you dont belong in this board.

Snyder ruined it with his slo-mo shot for shot recreations of comic book panels. It worked once, in 300, and that's because it has no real depth at all. It's almost comical so the only thing that could work was making look cool. Snyder can do that. But with more intricate movies he just fails.

Here it is, boys and girls.

>no explanation as to why American history is so drastically different than what actually happened

It's a fictional universe. Did you need an explanation as to why there were dinosaurs in Jurassic Park or why there are elves in Lord of the Rings?


>Doctor Manhattan suddenly deciding to save the world because he falls back in love with his girlfriend

No, he went along with Adrian's plan even though he knew how fucked up it was

>the incredibly rushed ending where both sides just suddenly decide to be friends after an incident which they just assume is actually caused by Doctor Manhattan

I don't see why they would assume that when Adrian explained that he did everything. They went along with it because they thought it was the only way to stop the nuclear war. Except for Rorshach, who didn't want to go along with it.

>that incredibly painful sex scene between two people that barely know eachother

They were friends back when they were a super hero team up. They did know each other pretty well.

Not an argument :D
See the above response. Furthermore, take your head our of your ass and reevaluate your life if you think only brainlets could find a superhero movie stupid.

He could've toned down the colors, but the right is just generic.

>what visionary means

a hack who bombs at the box office and gets low RottenTomatoes scores?

lol that's all the movie is you fucktard

Yes, but the reason for the change was not due realism but actually that it just doesn't fit the medium. That stuff is expected in comics just like the Manhattan twist is expected in the movie. Same for the suits. The 40s suits look just like the ones in the superman or Batman serials but the 80s ones look more in to be with what capeshit armors look in the movies post Tim Burton, they were not about how they look but about how they fit in the medium. Snyder deconstruction was adapted to the medium and that's a good thing.

Isn't right from Man of Steel? Or Batman v Superman? Or Justice League? Or the Avengers? Or Age of Ultron?

The squid fits the book because it had a conpletely different tone to it. Also it was masterfully set up with the whole comic book inside a comic book thing. Snyder trapped himself by doing his usual dark gritty style where the original ending would seem ridiculous.

My point exactly. It's generic as fuck. But I guess it's the easy thing to CGI.

I can't believe you're this dedicated to trolling

The matrix direactors are visionaries too, it doesn't mean good or bad you dumb manchildren.

Not him, but visionary implies good. Experiment is a more accurate word.

Experimental*

Yeah, that's why they cut Henry k from the movie right? That's why the nihilism of the comedian in intact, but let's cry over the needed action because a moron told you it was bad.

Snyder Gore and violence are not exaggerated, it's the same shit we are in every movie, Snyder just showed how ugly it would be, you had wolverine cutting people with no blood, you had Batman breaking legs, there's I difference between Snyder take on violence and Moore's. Both are saying the same: realistic violence isn't pretty, and even though Snyder has over stylished it never stops focusing on the same point. But idiots like you can't see it, the reason you believe Snyder did it because it looks cool is that you are the public that believes that shit ia cool. The kind of blood and Gore you see in watchmen is the same you would see in the authority.

>Did you need an explanation as to why there were dinosaurs in Jurassic Park
We actually got that, you fucking dumbass. Did you not see the movie? There is of course no explanation of why they have that technology and we don't, but it really just has to be plausible enough to a general audience of why there's something unusual and we then see the consequences played out in a plausible fashion, which makes it science-ficiton. We get no such explanation in The Watchmen. It doesn't work as pure fantasy because it partially relies on the audiences familiarity with the Cold War, but then throws in ahistorical, implausible shit about Nixon getting five terms. What the fuck was that supposed to be a deconstruction of? That seems like historical absurdity for its own sake, contrivedly assuming historical and implausible events just for the sake of conflict. Stories like this seem like they don't suit any audiences, where they're too complex for kids, but too stupid for adults. I guess some adults just lower their literary standards because they're "graphic novels," and want to say they're better than people who read lesser comics, not reading actual literature.

>or why there are elves in Lord of the Rings?
It's a completely different world that's totally removed from ours, i.e., having elves doesn't contradict anything we know about our world because it's a different universe. This is what makes having elves in LOTR plausible and some of the insane CGI shit in The Hobbit ridiculous because that is implausible within the world's own reality.

>No, he went along with Adrian's plan even though he knew how fucked up it was
I'm talking about how he decided to come back to Earth just because. He says some horseshit about his former girlfriend being special, or something, and then suddenly decides he cares about humans.

>I don't see why they would assume that when Adrian explained that he did everything.
I'm talking about both sides that were on the brink of nuclear war. It's like there were several scenes missing and fifteen minutes taken out of the movie where the case is made that Doctor Manhattan destroyed the city, and then there's an ceasefire, and then world peace with both sides decide to end the Cold War. This is done in like two minutes. If it's less rushed in the "book," okay, but I doubt it's any less stupid.

>They were friends back when they were a super hero team up. They did know each other pretty well.
I accept this as an explanation, at least because I can't' contradict it. It's been a while since I've seen this part, but when I did, thought the romance was rushed, pointless, and the sex scene grotesque and excessive.

why don't you read the comic?

I'm not even a Snyder fan, but the decision to not have a giant squid attacking New York as the ending must have been very easy. No cinematic approach could have made that look anything but extremely silly.

Why do you always assume Snyder is doing something smart when its clear he just loves violence?

Okay, but having a giant squid have been, pardon the phrase, schlock.

K. I can't judge because I haven't read the "book," but I hope you know how silly a giant squid sounds to people who haven't read it and think comics are for children.

>Such poor understanding of American history
This is why the school days need to be longer.

I don't care enough. It doesn't interest me, and when people say that the movie is a faithful adaption of the "book", which a major difference being the latter ends with a giant squid, I'm become less interested.

No u silly OP it's different therefore it is automatically bad.

>people can accept a giant blue man making gooks explode
>but they can't accept giant squids

>I'm talking about both sides that were on the brink of nuclear war.

By setting off nukes in cities on both sides of the Cold War conflict simultaneously, he made it appear that neither side had fired first and that they had both been victim of the worst terrorist attack imaginable, and the idea was that that level of destruction would bring both sides to set aside their differences and rebuild and recover. It's fucked up, but it worked to stop the end of the world. The book version used the alien invasion to bring both sides together instead of bombs.


>thought the romance was rushed, pointless, and the sex scene grotesque and excessive.

Laurie sort of had an obligation to hold her relationship with Manhattan to try to keep his human side around, but he grew to be cold, mechanical, and apathetic regardless. He didn't even put any emotion into it when he was fucking her. She moved on from him emotionally, like people do with a relationship grows stagnant. Dan was just the rebound nigga who was there to listen to her problems. And so he got the ass

Oh, shit, I just went on Wikipedia and found that Nixon actually had five terms. And that nuclear war was actually prevented with a giant squid appearing in New York City. I will never doubt Snyder's genius again, except making the ahistorical change of a squid to a reactor. That's really not appropriate.

>WTF THERE'S NO HISTORICAL ACCURACY IN THIS SUPERHERO MOVIE

>ahm nawt enterested in dem books

>will troll for hours

...

It's the difference between introducing an element towards the beginning and not at a climax, and having a super hero like that fits our collective fantasies, and not so much a giant squid, so some implausibilities are easier to swallow than others.

But, should I just say I despise all capeshit for its implausibilities? Despite anything you can say, a giant squid destroying New York is a stupid ending.

They can't. The movie has a different pace than a 12 issue comic you moron.

The fact that you need the historical differences spoon fed to you is not something to be proud of

This is the problem with your kind, you refuse to any argument that doesn't support your Snyder hate. You just dont care about the why of the changes and how the actually fit. You always end up in not muh.

I also hate how no one talks about politics or philosophy when you wabt to criticize the movie, the reason is either that the movie does a great job with both or that you didn't even care about that in the comics either, you just took the muh violence and deconstruction shallowness.

>By setting off nukes in cities on both sides of the Cold War conflict simultaneously, he made it appear that neither side had fired first and that they had both been victim of the worst terrorist attack imaginable, and the idea was that that level of destruction would bring both sides to set aside their differences and rebuild and recover. It's fucked up, but it worked to stop the end of the world. The book version used the alien invasion to bring both sides together instead of bombs.
And? There are a lot of problems with that scene that are hard to put into to words, but the easiest is that is it's extremely rushed.

>And so he got the ass
Okay. It doesn't make the sex scene any less indecent, and not in a prudish way, but it's like the Snyder version of a sex scene, with the negative aspects that entails.

Sorry, I went to a public school and community college. They glossed over the number of terms Nixon had and when New York was destroyed by a giant squid.

>went to a public school and community college
you are like 12

The giant squid was not introduced in the ending. You see the artist who actually designs the squid doing sketches of it all throughout the novel. But you don't find out the point of it until the ending.

You know movies are different from real life, right?
Do you only watch documentaries?

The problem with your kind is all you care about is sucking Snyder's dick, and anytime anyone tells you to cut that shit out, you can't help but sperg out over how they just don't "get it".

I already addressed this in a previous post. This might, somehow, have worked in a comic book, but in a movie, it comes across like you're just assuming numerous implausible, silly, (-like Nixon having five terms? What kind of childish bullshit is that?)- things just to establish the plot.

>Snyder adapts the what many consider to be the greatest comic of all time
>it fails
GUYS! the issue here was THE SOURCE MATERIAL

Hey, if you or somebody else want to accuse me of having a "poor understanding of American history," and I act like a smartass, accept it. Besides, I already addressed why I find ahistorical in Watchmen so problematic.

>you are like 12
If you really think that, report me ;D

>missed the point
opinion disregarded. consider killing yourself

DURRR
>he thinks that using the worlds most powerful man and recourse as a scapegoat is better than creating a nonexistent outside threat
>he thinks a big crater looks cooler than showing dead bodies all over new York
DURRRRRRRRRRRRR

I'm willing to bet that based on these posts, this complaint comes up a lot. I'll have you know all I did was research differences from the comic and movie, found this image, and knowing nothing about the ending of the comic except this image, expressed my opinion that nothing could be stupider than ending a story with a giant squid. So there.

Don't you know? snyder fans can't read

OP here: I'm tired of arguing with you people and need to get up early tomorrow for work. I actually like a lot of Watchmen, but consider it a unique and ambitious failure, like Dune, and some of Snyder's other works.

>he hasn't actually read the book
>he's arguing that snyder did it better
so, this is the power of capeshit fans

Niteowl was good, really captured Dan's awkwardness.

Nixon gained a lot of respect in their Vietnam War due to Dr. Manhattan fucking steamrolling the gooks into submission. The 60's went very differently. The Russians and their communist Cuban allies were perhaps even more panicked than in the real Cold War. Because they had to come up with a way to counter attack against a god. It really all plays into how their inevitable nuclear war escalated in a way that the Cold War never did.

Movie
>shit

Book
>Diamond plated gold

youtube.com/watch?v=stKh-TQxHLw

K I N O

That's because Snyder is so fucking tonedeaf to story.

He looks at comic books and sees the art and goes "WHOA THIS LOOKS SO COOL" and then tries to recreate it visually without taking the time to understand the characters and the conflict. His Superman is a frowning idiot that causes more explosions than a Michael Bay film because he doesn't understand Superman.

let me guess. you haven't read dune either, right?
or the comic 300 was based off of?

holy shit this is great

The whole book is this good, this is my favorite chapter though. Enjoy friend.

Snyder turned this kino into this trash

youtube.com/watch?v=o4vfhrDylUQ

"Visionary"
"Genuis"

I can see why people hate the movie, however the source is not at fault.

Cutting the squid and keeping Bubastis is enough evidence that Snyder had no idea what he was doing.

I just wonder why people have such a big problem with the giant squids in this story. Dr Manhattan is ridiculous, Ozymandias is somewhat ridiculous, Rorschach is incredibly ridiculous.

because the squid is made up of bright colors that don't exist on the Snyder spectrum. His fans literally cannot comprehend it

> that incredibly painful sex scene between two people that barely know eachother
t. virgin

My theater was filled with people laughing. It was pretty embarrassing.

The casting was fine aside from ozymandius. Should have made night owl more doughy, but snyder is such a fucking homo that his restraint there is almost admirable.

It gets to me when people complain about the few divergences it takes from the source material, when literally it's kept just about everything but the retarded stuff.

>being such a boring fag that you samefag the same weak b8 thread daily

You had to have been like 2 years old when this came out

i think they went for an actor you wouldn't suspect would do such a thing in a film. if only they went with someone who ozymandias stood for. someone like capt. america as he should have

the watchmen is set in a world at war with nukes and shit. the squid is a sidestory made by visionaries in the comic which weren't present in the movie. even if they were included, i don't think it would work as good as framing dr. manhattan for the tragedy. it all worked in their favor.

>No explanation as to why American history is so drastically different than what actually happened.

It was actually completely the same until the costumed vigilantes started. The movie is not only about the characters, but a deconstruction of what could likely happen if superheroes actually existed. It wouldn't be like our world now, but there would be drastic economic, social, and political changes. I think that's what I like most about it. Most comics treat it as if the world is largely the same with superheroes are around and it's much more realistic massive shifts in a lot of seemingly unrelated areas.

>Doctor Manhattan suddenly deciding to save the world because he falls back in love with his girlfriend

First, it's arguable that Doctor Manhattan actually saved the world. It's poignant to point out that even after Ozy's plan succeeds, he asks Doctor Manhattan did the right thing and Doctor Manhattan essentially told him that his victory was temporary and that nothing ever ends. Considering that he experiences the past, present, and future simultaneously, that means that Doctor Manhattan knows the peace that Adrian forced upon them was not going to last.

Yet, he did it anyway. I think it's one of his most human and yet most alien things that he has ever done in the movie or the comic. On the one hand, he most certainly help kill a bunch of people for a peace that he knew would not last, that everything was going back to the way it was, so all of those deaths were for nothing. On the other hand, the fact that he did so meant that he cared about the peace, no matter how brief it was, that even if complete nuclear annihilation was definitely going to happen, it was worth killing those people for it to happen a little later so that humanity would have a little bit more time.

In a way, he was foreshadowing his decision when he told Laurie that he reached an epiphany that life was a marvelous thing.

cont.

Yeah, and its annoying when people take the movie as word of God, and consider everything from the comic as "retarded stuff".
Even when they get told exactly why its all important, the only response they have is "it wouldn't work in a movie". That doesn't make it better.

>Patrick wilson as nite owl II
>bad
shit taste man

It was to fool the audience. A sleight of hand. We are led to believe that Dr. Manhattan will choose to stop Ozymandias and then we see that Ozymandias convince Dr. Manhattan to help him. We have to remember something though: up until the nukes go off, Dr. Manhattan's ability to see the future is nerfed. However, it's nerfed at that point. He can see everything up to that point.

He reached the epiphany because, he already knew what Ozy's was going to tell him and he knew that he would agree at that time. He told Laurie as much. It wasn't her love that did it. It was him experiencing Ozy's argument before the viewer saw the Ozy trying to convince Dr. Manhattan themselves.

>the incredibly rushed ending where both sides just suddenly decide to be friends after an incident which they just assume is actually caused by Doctor Manhattan

A more important point that is false in these two related points is that they believed Dr. Manhattan did it. They didn't believe that he was the cause because they not only figured out that it was Ozy beforehand, but Ozy had told them the full scope of his plan.

Now, to go from there, they didn't become friends at all at the end. Dr. Manhattan abandons the world, Ozy is left with the painful weight of what he's done and that it may have all been for nothing, the ginger who was one of teammates was dead and killed by another one of their teammates, Owlman is now has to suffer with the undeniable knowledge that he is as powerless as he always feared believed himself to be, and Laurie had just experienced something much worse than what she always wanted to avoid, (remember, she didn't want to become a vigilante. She was practically forced by her mother): Her superhero-god ex-boyfriend blew up a friend and completely emasculated your fellow vigilante that serves as your emotional sponge at the cost of letting him fuck you sometimes and

cont.

that your life is so incredibly pathetic that you'll suffer through a blubbery man who has the self-esteem of a fat kid with a lisp sticking his dick in you because you've been deemed as not good enough by what's essentially God. To top it all off, the one ex-teammate that everyone thought managed to move past the destructive spiral of being a vigilante orchestrated the most heinous crime against humanity and you can do nothing about you because not only is better in every way than you, apparently, God agrees with him to, so he's going to get away with it.

Nobody is anyone's friend right now.

>that incredibly painful sex scene between two people that barely know eachother

Despite what others in this thread have said, they really didn't know eachother that well. Laurie explicitly tells Dr. Manhattan that they haven't spoken to Owlman in years. They had no idea what anything was happening in anyone else's life. I agree that it was incredibly painful. It's just that it's supposed to be painful. They're not having sex because they love each other. They're having sex because Owlman can't get a woman because he's pathetic otherwise and Laurie wants someone to validate her. They don't actually care about each other. They're both just desperate. The terrible thing is, they're not managing to diminish their issues.

Owlman isn't any less pathetic because he knows that Laurie doesn't love him and just needs someone to carry her emotional baggage. He's essentially using her as a prostitute. He gets sex and gets to act like there's something deeper happening between them, but he has to pay her by feeding into her self-worth issues.

In a similar vein, Laurie's self-worth isn't made any better because she knows that Owlman doesn't care about her in the way that she wanted Dr. Manhattan to.

cont.

She knew that he didn't love her, but if she could get -anyone- in -any- way to want her for -any- reason, then that was better than Dr. Manhattan who apparently didn't even want her enough to devote his complete attention to her while they fucked.

It's not supposed to be a sexy scene at all.
So, really, it was the same as the book. You're just a bit of a brainlet, or perhaps, didn't approach the film in the right way.

end

Weird, I loved Nite Owl and Manhattan. My problems were Silk Spectre, as you said, and Ozymandias.

I'm not gonna defend the guy you responded to, but you really don't get any of that from the movie.
It just looks like two people fucking, the music doesn't help.
youtube.com/watch?v=M7T0oSWkmfs

Actually, I believe you do. That song in this scene ("Hallelujah" by Leonard Cohen) an incredibly depressing song about failing relationships and wanting things they can't get from a person you're in a relationship with and how, despite being with them, you can't make them love you. Neither of them are going to get what they actually want from each other.

I read the Watchmen in high school and loved it. I was so stoked when I saw the trailer in college.

The night it premiered, me and two buds put on speedos, swimming caps, and painted ourselves blue from head to toe. Even drew the hydrogen symbol on our foreheads in sharpie. We walked proudly to the theater, excited to see what other costumes people were wearing.

No one else was in costume.

damn... insane...