Avatar the last airbender Energybending

i love this show as much as the next guy but this was an asspull why do people defend this its not like this one moment makes the rest of the show garbage

why can't we as avatar fans acknowledge the show's flaws and still praise it for being great

People constantly criticize it and the lion turtle as a great big unsatisfying ass-pull and Season three is usually ranked much lower than two because this and other poorly-tied-up-ends like this.

Though personally I'm pretty OK with it on principal because it is a literal Deus Ex Machina in a fairly mythological show.

it is criticized all the time but there's still a large part of the fan base that defends it

>acknowledge the show's flaws and still praise it for being great
It works both ways, because quite often;
>this one moment makes the rest of the show garbage
Is the claim being made.

Are you saying that there are people on the internet with opinions that differ from your own?

I put my fingers in my ears and just pretend it's blood bending instead.

>its not like this one moment makes the rest of the show garbage

It sort of does. Ultimately it highlights the shortcomings of not just anime in the west but cartoons in the united states as a whole.

They just couldn't do it. Had Avatar been made in Japan it would've had a satisfying conclusion.

This has to be bait.

(you)

Well it's either bait or stupidity, so I hope for your sake it's bait.

Yes, Japan wouldn't dare kill off the villain at the end. Dumbass.

Why can't we just let people like what they like and not shame them for their opinions? That's all this website does. It's just a negativity magnet.

Would killing him off be satisfying? I don't think so. It would've contradicted the major theme of choosing your own destiny, following your own path etc etc. I think they could've handled it better, but thematically it worked fine.

6 posts in and the autism is flowing freely.
This is why Avatar threads need to go in the where they belong.

Maybe this is bait, but man anime has as bad a track record in terms of endings as cartoons if not worse. Like 75% of anime every season just kind of stops instead of having a proper ending.

One piece isn't all Japanese works

>why do people defend this

I don't think anyone defends this, OP

Bu imo the biggest problem with book 3 wasn't the ending but the pace. Book 3 should have had some more episodes, especially after the second half, to make Zuko feel more like a member of the Gaang. Toph managed to do this in season 2 but she had more time. After Zuko joins, everything feels rushed because they have to make him bond with Katara, Aang and Sokka and make the story flow.

Okay guys. How would you have wanted Avatar to end? Aang actually murdering the guy? Being the first Avatar to commit murder?

>Being the first Avatar to commit murder?
That's not right. His resistance to killing Ozai came from his Air Nomadness, not being the Avatar.

>why do people defend this
The only two people who defend it are the show's creators


Should've pulled a Dragonball solution
Goku didn't kill demon Piccolo because fuck all his evil plans, Goku'll always be there to stop him (until he kept dying in Z)

Plus it's not like Sozen would be a threat post-comet anyway

Say, didn't Gyatso kill a few firebenders before being killed himself? I mean, he was surrounded by skeletons...

He should have unalived him there. It should have been peak character moment for Aang.
Also, pretty sure he also had unalived other characters before, like sparky boom boom man- but when in comes to the biggest baddie in the series, he wimped out and add 3 more episode.

This would have been a pretty good approach had they gone on for a fourth season. They could have showed Ozai attempting another plan and the Avatar wiping the floor with him once again. Maybe even explore the Fire Nation (and Zuko) some more as Zuko becomes some sort of subversive and tries to get the Fire Nation citizens to see Ozai and the monarchy as corrupt/immoral/etc.

It would harken back to Zuko's initial transgression against his father when he spoke out in the war room about the welfare of Fire Nation soldiers.

>pointlessly extending the story for another season after the main plot is all done with
Why?

The writers themselves had intended on a fourth season to address other things brought up in the series, like Zuko's mother.

Notice that my agreeableness to user's ending suggestion is predicated on a fourth season having been a foregone conclusion. It was not, so I don't believe that would have been a good way to end the series of 3 seasons.

I don't personally care with the deux ex machina, as I knew there would be no way Aang would kill Ozai. That was the whole point of his struggle - everyone telling him he'll have to kill Ozai and him discovering a way to pursue a different path.

>its not like this one moment makes the rest of the show garbage
It does is that it sours the entire central plotline.

It's like seeing a beautiful bridge that leads off a cliff.

No. It doesn't ruin anything about the show. It's a good show. Enjoy it.

It does ruin it, its a lazy unrealistic way to end the series.
So just stay true to your beliefes and a magical giant turtle will come from the ocean and fix your problems? What kind of message is that?

The whole "should have killed him" thing is retarded though.

Lock Ozai in the spirit realm. Allows for cool future shenanigans too.
Yes. In fairness, he was in an entirely different position, and he also wasn't the avatar.

I've never seen this degree of plebness before.

At least you get the killing thing though.

Considering there are plenty of times magical things just sort of happen in Avatar (Aang fusing with the ocean spirit, Yue coming out of nowhere to help Aang create a giant wave, etc.) I just saw it as nature trying to help Aang. He was just given a tool to bring balance to the world. They still showed his decision basically consumed him until he said, "No, fuck destiny. I've already taken up my responsibility, now it's my turn to stay true to myself."

I don't know, it just worked for me. I also just like the idea of an ancient benevolent creature from days of old helping the Avatar restore balance before things went permanently south.

Sokka was the one that killed combustion man.

But Aang definitely had to have a few other kills, like the Fire Nation navy at the north pole

I definitely think that Aang should have learned SOMETHING in between the eclipse and the comet (to emphasise that whole "when the time is right" thing). And a lion-turtle is a fine way to do that. It should just have been a story arc in its own right, instead of "here's your technique now".

You're confusing cartoon-world with the real world.

You know I dont have problems with the Avatar having access to a power not available to 99% of the population, think about it, the avatar is special only in that he is able to master all 4 elements, but given a whole army to face, he would probably lose, so having the power to take away bending as a unique power available only to the avatar kind of makes sense.

it would also open up alot of doors, with the Avatar being the one person who gets to decide to which person deserves to bend, instead of straight up killing people to prevent them from bending, it gives people another chance at life, and it would also open up the door of an evil avatar taking everyone's bending away so he would live forever.

the main problem with energybending overall is the execution, nobody saw it coming, it wasnt foreshadowed at all, Aang literally accidentally met a turtle who so just knew energybending, just the thing Aang needed to stop ozai from hurting other people with out resorting to killing

you know, I hate the chripractor rock and all, but if energy bending is the thing prevented by Azula's lightning attack and Aang suddenly hitting his back to the rock and unlocking energybending, it would have been much better

The energy bending asspull was kind of an eyeroller but it's okay because nobody really expected Aang to kill someone on a children's show.

But still I remember making an audible noise in frustration when Aang went all executioner mode on his ass and then bailed out at the last second. That was a real downer.

>Aang literally accidentally met a turtle who so just knew energybending
There's a strong undercurrent of Fate in the series, so idea's not out of character. It's just really poorly executed. Same with the hitting-rock-thing.
>But still I remember making an audible noise in frustration when Aang went all executioner mode on his ass and then bailed out at the last second. That was a real downer.
But that was one of the good parts you fucking faggot.

>First to kill

Wait what. I thought that earth bitch had a give no shits murder attitude.

She did, he's a faggot.

>Aang being a pussy and showing mercy to a literally Hitler firelord is a good part

In a just world Aang would have smote his ass upon that plateau without remose leaving nothing but a crater, such is the price for rousing the ire of a God among men

Any other outcome is just Disney tier bullshit

>I don't like Aang's philosophy so it's shit
Wanna know how I know you're a pleb?

Aang was right btw

Now you are just being a pedantic autist.

Aang's philosophy was what got his backwards ass people genocided like Jews you double nigger

Yeah explains all the Fire Nation corpses

I don't think you understand what pedantry is.

>a handful of soldiers vs an entire society of people

Justice is the ultimate practice that ensures the strong do not harm the weak

>a fucktonne of soldiers
>in super mega turbo comet mode
>they're still piled up in corpse mounds

To be honest I have a much bigger problem with there being an episode where Zuko learns how to use "REAL" firebending and then not only is it never mentioned again, but it's functionally identical to the firebending he was using before when it should be much more powerful.

And then on top of that, the way they played his fight with Azula made it seem like he only won because she was losing her shit, not because he had become stronger.

Doesn't matter how many they killed or how powerful they were, all the Airbenders still got wiped the fuck out

Yeah and it's got nothing to do with their philosophy.

>And then on top of that, the way they played his fight with Azula made it seem like he only won because she was losing her shit, not because he had become stronger.

So?

>And then on top of that, the way they played his fight with Azula made it seem like he only won because she was losing her shit
I don't have a problem with the rest of that shit but THIS was annoying. You'd think it'd be the perfect time to show the superiority of Sunbending. And it's right there, too, what with the Power of Friendship letting Katara kick Azula's shit in.

Yeah it does

Fire nation attacked the Air nomads first because they knew they wouldn't put up a fight except for the few notable airbenders that left mounds of corpses

So it makes the entire episode pointless.

It seems like it runs kind of counter to his development arc.

>why can't we as avatar fans acknowledge the show's flaw
Why don't you?

I've noticed people will ignore or defend Sozin's comet empowering Firebenders through implied energy bending.
The Full Moon empowering Waterbenders through implied energy bending.
The Eclipse depowering Firebenders through implied energy bending.
Chi blocking depowering benders
And entering the spirit realm nullifying bending entirely

But energy bending depowering bending? Now that's just too far!

As for the rock spinal tap. I get it, really, temporarily locking off his Super form until the true final ending is a pointless gimmick to inject suspense, fantasy fiction or not, but the entire show was built on contrivance. Any suspension of disbelief was held not by logic on the show's part but tolerance on your own that all this magic shit would be played out "realistically".

I mean there are children, literal children fighting a war against adults.

Absolutely. Every year you can count on one hand the shows with good end out of the hundreds that come out. Anime is notoriously good at wasting potential with shit endings.

People chalked up the the phases of the sun and moon's effects on bending as "spirit shit" which leads to pic related. ATLA had a lore that was so incredibly esoteric and satisfyingly vague and magical that people didn't feel the need to question such things like what the fuck the Avatar even was in a concrete sense. But people were fine with that, we knew enough. No one ever thought to connect anything prior to this sudden new technique Aang had just learned from a fuckhuge monster.

Though, it would have been a million times better if they made more allusions to it so such a finale would have more payoff along with concepts such as chi blocking and similar. They all worked so well together but the story never put any bridges across them to allow that proper speculation for most people it seems, and they all looked at it as a pure asspull.

Unfortunately we instead got the story of Wan that effectively destroyed the spiritual mysteriousness of Avatar lore in the worst way possible.

It would have been fine if they developed the idea more. At least have a few episodes where aang has to master the skill or something. Now its just legend of korra tier.

I don't think killing Ozai was all that important to the story and thought Aang's attachment to non-lethality came from a good place. It wasn't just him chickening out, it was him being presented with a necessary task and choosing to approach it from an angle that best coincided with his cultural and spiritual beliefs.

The lion turtle came out of nowhere, but given that it resolved one issue that arose suddenly it was a quick end to a single point of conflict rather than a contrived end to the arc of the full show - the arc was "defeat the fire nation", not "kill Ozai specifically". Involving a spirit and introducing an entirely new dimension to bending was cooler than any killing blow.

>Unfortunately we instead got the story of Wan that effectively destroyed the spiritual mysteriousness of Avatar lore in the worst way possible.
It was a perfect example of trying to fix what wasn't broke. The where, when, what and why of the Avatar required no origin story but they went and did it anyway.

To me the story of Wan was like midichlorians, no one asked for the source of the force. We just accepted that it was space magic.

This is not energybending, it's spermbending.

>asspull
No. Aang searching for a nonlethal solution was being set up for half of season 3, and the buildup for the end started two episodes prior.

It's amazing how much Korra is like the prequels, and how much Bryke really did follow their beloved mentor Lucas.

Probending is even the equivalent of podracing, in that it's a pointless sports subplot.

>Fire nation attacked the Air nomads first because they knew they wouldn't put up a fight

No, they never said it.

They atacked them first because they new that the avatar was among them.

No you illiterate nigger it's because they attacked the temple they knew had the avatar in it because he's still young enough not to know the elements and thus be able to ever stop him. It's why they took all the water benders from the south but otherwise left them alone, and laid siege more or less to the north for a hundred years. Gotta follow the cycle and kill the only thing that can stop you

It wasn't a fair fight. Neither part should have accepted.

what i said was true there are people in this thread defending it

Sunbending was never said to be superior just different and in canon Azula was a better firebender then Zuko

he didn't have to kill him but energybending is a asspull they already established that there are prisons specifically for firebender why not just put them in one of those what about the ending would change

why not just put he in a firebender prison

>and in canon Azula was a better firebender then Zuko
Zuko caught up though. The Southern Raiders fight that everyone seems to forget had Zuko and Azula evenly matched, with Azula only being saved by plot armor.

Not counting what the comics did to Azula, which are total bullshit.

It was lazy of the writers to just throw it in. They had an entire season to build to it. Instead they had the gang run around do bumpkus for half the season. Concept is intriguing but you can't just do it at the end like that. I'm still angry they had the Avatar State activated via a rock formation. It was all very lazy.

Azula is the standard, why does her growing and maturing her art make it unbelievable?

This, holy shit the entire first half of Book 3 is FILLER. What the fuck is filler even doing in the final season? You have plotlines to wrap up!

okay let's say they're evenly matched Azula still won through what is essentially cheating and what did they do to Azula in the comic

They wrote themselves into a corner by blocking off the avatar state. How else could they have resolved it?

literally this

OP, there were at least 3 episodes talking about energybending. How can that be an asspull if they talked about it before?

Also, what does that change in the entire final battle? Aang defeats Ozai without it anyway.

I'm talking about unlocking the avatar state m8

just because it was mentioned a few times in the 3 episodes that came directly before it makes it not a asspull

3 episodes out of a 21 episode season out of a 61 episode series at the very minimum this should have been hinted at all throughout the last season

>why does her growing and maturing her art make it unbelievable?
Because she's fucking crazy, Scrapper.

>inb4 I'm not Scrapper but

>and what did they do to Azula in the comic
she can still lightning bend despite being even crazier than she was in Sozin's Comet
she eventually learns lightning redirection despite not having a teacher, still being crazy, and redirection being based off of waterbending principles (which makes sense for Zuko understanding them with his Sun Warrior outlook, but not Azula's rage-based firebending which is the total opposite of water)

it's fine

I actually like the Wan episode, it was better than basically anything else in Korra.
I still agree though, it fucked over the mystery and other-worldness of the Spirit World.
You were never meant to understand it,
and then they explained it.

A lot of people didn't like that part though.

I honestly thought that whole final fight was underwhelming. A big source of tension was that Aang didn't feel mastered enough to fight Ozai, yet in the fight it felt like his only legitimate struggle was because he didn't want to fight. Ozai didn't ever feel like he was actually making a dent in Aang.

It fits with the whole chi and inner energy thing they were going for, and gives the Avatar unique power beyond having all four elements.

I honestly don't get why people think this was an asspull. It could have been built up better, sure, but it's better than what would have happened without it, which is Ozai just being locked up with his bending like Azula was.

It was an asspull because it was never given any feasible sense or connection to prior concepts until Season 2 of Korra which as a whole raped the lore savagely.

> show ended 9 years ago
> shit posting on a matter that was already resolved 9 years ago continues

What a show

Iroh training Zuko lightning bending literally talks about the flow of energy in one's body. How about you actually watch the show. He draws all the connections for bending for you

Guru episode lays out the relation between internal energies and bending, iirc.

>(to emphasise that whole "when the time is right" thing
He kind of did that in the finale. He was willing to just let Ozai surrender after stomping him, but only when he attacked again did Aang shut him down permanently.

>You'd think it'd be the perfect time to show the superiority of Sunbending
No. The point was never that Sunbending was better. The Sun Warriors helped them get in touch with the true roots of firebending. Zuko being without a doubt a worse bender and fighter than Azula is one of the best parts of his character.

Even so, you got your wish. Zuko's moves in the finale aren't fueled by anger, but passion. You see it in the difference of their movements.

>They wrote themselves into a corner by blocking off the avatar state
>they set up that the block was purely physical and pressure on it caused intense reactions so they clearly wrote themselves in a corner by getting around it with exactly what was set up beforehand

The rock is frustrating, but not bullshit. Energybending is frustrating, but not bullshit. Energybending at least fits narratively for Aang on both sides of his role in the series. Everyone seems to kinda miss how both of his identities were invested in the solution in the finale and anyone who says Ozai wasn't a good enough villain doesn't seem to realize what he was meant to be.

Aang's conflict with killing Ozai was due to the obligation he felt as the Avatar to restore balance, and the obligation he put on himself to be true to his heritage as an Air Nomad. If he doesn't kill Ozai, he can't fulfill his duty as the Avatar. If he does, he breaks his beliefs as an Air Nomad. Aang is literally split between being the Avatar: and the Last Airbender. The energybending result, while asspulled and poorly handled, was the perfect compromise where he maintains his code while carving his own path. That's why the last episode is called "Avatar Aang."

Now THIS is probending!

I'm not Scrapper but even I can see she is not crazy. She just had a breakdown which happens to regular people and now she rebounded and is as put together as ever before.

Not enough. That's the whole point. There's hints and a little buildup but not nearly enough for how important energybending wound up being. Energybending should have been in the very first episode of the show, in some form.