I've stumbled upon this today, and it really eloquently puts into words what I've been thinking for a while now. Does Sup Forums agree with this criticism of Marvel?
thefandomentals.com
tl;dr - Captain Nazi is absolutely tasteless, given our current events, his character is now irredeemable, and Spencer is, perhaps unknowlingly, distributing flat-out nazi propaganda.
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1) Doing ANYTHING to "Captain America" in ANY political climate would and will be considered "absolutely tasteless" by some people or other.
2) They are fucking brands, "intellectual properties". they can be repurposed in two clicks with a massive viral campaign if need arise.
Cap isn't a Nazi. He specifically wanted to purify Hydra of Red Skull and his nazi shit.
As a character he is no less redeemable than any one else when they go on a heel turn because 1)
He is not real.
2) Everything he's doing is because of the cosmic cube. Look at Tony Stark in Civil War. He made all those choices on his own (narratively speaking), and he still wasn't "irredeemable".
Not going to dignify your website with the clicks. Captain Hydra is one of the best and most enjoyable books Marvel is currently putting out. I really don't give a fuck if it's "tastless, given our current events."
It's a well-written and entertaining comic, which Marvel is in short supply of these days. That's all that really matters. Not what some MCUfag blogger thinks about how it hurts his feelings because it has some vague parallels to politics that he doesn't agree with.
Not to mention "hydra = nazi" is an opinion that literally only movie-only casuals holds. Comics Hydra has nothing to do with Nazis and no matter how many times you go "b-but the first Cap movie called them the Nazi Super-Science Division!" won't change the fact that Hydra is not and has never been a Nazi organization.
>b-but they were a stand-in for Nazis!
Marvel never had any problem depicting nazis or Hitler or the Red Skull when they wanted to have super-heroes fighting nazis. They didn't NEED a stand-in because when they wanted to have nazi villains, they just used nazis.
I don't care for Nick Spencer's "serious" writing at all, but I don't particularly have a problem with HydraCap since it's just going to get Cosmic-Cube-retconned at the end of Secret Empire anyway
Jack Kirby is rolling in the pauper's grave that he was placed in because Marvel jewed him out of money.
>how dare you have a good guy temperarally turn evil
>HOW DARE YOU???
Nigger, do you even read comics?
Hydra seems Communist rather than Nazi though, so I think the hysteria about "muh ebil nahzees" is rather pathetic, like the reaction of trained monkeys. Even Chris Evans is a neo Communist going by his Twitter, so Hydra Cap should be widely celebrated. An intolerant one world order that hates free speech, that's right up the street of Marvel fans and actors lately.
>Captain Nazi is absolutely tasteless, given our current events
Ah, a bait. Enjoy all the (You)'s and thread hitting 500 posts.
That being said, fuck you and fuck all the cunts and moviefags that complain about this storyline without even reading it (or reading comics in general). It's so fucking transparent that they have no idea how comic storylines work when they act like this is like genociding jews or whatever else retarded shit. It's actually a pretty entertaining comic, but good luck telling someone that without some SJW tumblerina on twitter going "B-BUT THIS LITERALLY GAVE MY JEWISH GRANDMOTHER A HEART ATTACK YOU NAZI APOLOGIST."
>expecting the average "politically-aware idiot" to de-escalate a term from "Literally Hitler" to something less than "Literally Hitler"
They just see unequivocal "DANGER." You may as well try convincing them a rattlesnake is not a rattlesnake; it's all the same to them.
>people still think Hydra cares about Nazi ideology.
I don't even read Captain America and I know this.
Red Skull undoubtedly does, that's where most people get confused.
And Captain America just killed the Red Skull precisely because he believes that Nazi ideals have no place in Hydra.
>flat-out nazi propaganda.
Let's leave aside the fact that being Hydra doesn't make you a Nazi, as many have already pointed out.
How exactly is this propaganda when he's very clearly presented as the bad guy? If anything I've seen people complain that it's anti-Trump propaganda even though that doesn't make very much sense.
>""""""""killed""""""""
>Red Skull undoubtedly does
And Red Skull had nothing to do with Hydra until the movie, and didn't lead Hydra until Spencer's run, and even in Spencer's run it's acknowledged that he doesn't give a rats ass about Hydra's ideology and is just using them for his own ends.
I would say throwing someone out of a building and his head then busting open on a rock when he hits the ground while all his bones break in the shape of a swastika is indeed killing.
>given the current climate
You mean all the outrage addicted retards begging for totalitarianism so they can justify their paranoia?
>given our current events
What current events? Nazis haven't been a thing for over 60 years. Just because liberals and dumb leftists have started labeling right-wing people as "nazis" doesn't make it true.
Nope.
Whole thing has been done before, arguments against it tend be 'not muh' and cherry-pick from older storylines. I think it's mostly meaningless outrage.
I mean the very article you link (is it your article) gets the facts wrong too.
HYDRA actually did start out as a Nazi fifth column force under Strucker (remember him?), but Strucker more or less immediately did his own thing the first chance he got. There was a Secret Invasion tie-in, IIRC, where Strucker briefly explained why he wasn't a Nazi anymore.
How the fuck have I missed this image? Please user, I need this picture.
Spencer's aim is to cement Sam Wilson's position as Captain America.
Steve won't be Cap again for the foreseeable future.
I propose a new term:
"Metaphorical Hitler"
When will Marvel turn Squirrel Girl heel?
The damage to the character is far less easy to fix. Steve's fucked as a character now.
Steve's about to be Wanda'd.
OK so on that guy's big problem being that someone drew offensive fanart of Captain America:
>That’s not official art, thankfully, but a deviantart user by the name of Neetsfagging322297 (who was not the original artist) shared this on September 11th, 2016. Yeah, not only was it posted a few months after the Nazi Cap reveal, making it more than a little impossible to claim that its sudden circulation wasn’t inspired by that, but on September 11th. It’s been making the internet rounds a bit lately, mostly on twitter, and our fellow Fanfinite Ian brought it to our attention.
Does he not understand that if you don't know when this was made you can't claim it was inspired by the story? I suppose by sticking to circulation he avoids that but Jesus Christ, man. It's fanart. I find all this "it's morally wrong and must be censored" shit very shaky when it comes to a "I don't like the story" PoV. I mean
>This exists and it will always exist.
I could go get you panels of the Hate-Monger, 50s Cap, whatever. You cannot blame the story/story author for the actions of this individual. How many people buy Cap every month? Are we really fucking arguing this is a destructive Nazi influence when we have actual self-proclaimed Nazis out in the streets?
Honestly there are so many bad arguments made as part of this article. The Bombshells comparison ignoring what Bombshells ignores: do you not consider the impact that has on your perception of history, but do consider what HydraCap has? How is that not doublethink? And the Earth 10 thing, the reboot thing, that these aren't "Prime Earths" just doesn't line up with the argument that what's on the page is important.
Honestly reading these articles gets me so irritated with fandom and the self-devouring nature of comics journalism/criticism. This is starting from a reaction/emotion and reaching to justify it. There's very little self-analysis and the textual analysis is all skewed to hold up the emotional reaction.
You are retarded.
we'll get a year or two of unbrainwashed Steve probably as Nomad trying to redeem his tarnished name in the eyes of the superhero community at large, then there will be a big event where he helps out and they will all forgive him and everything will be fine
>HYDRA actually did start out as a Nazi fifth column force under Strucker
No it didn't. It started as a rehash of an old Iron Man story, but with Nick Fury and exploding shirts.
>Hydra seems Communist rather than Nazi though
Huh? No, they're all about the strong ruling... which is what Communism technically is in the real world, but that's not really the ideology. They're basically Fascists, just not Nazi since they don't have prejudices related to real world races - they seem to be placing the mutants and inhumans in that same role though, with them being persecuted in a flashforward to Cap's rule.
>distributing flat-out nazi propaganda
>history channel documentaries are propoganda because they show nazis in them
What rating of autism is this on the scale?
>current event comics are only good when its about the soon-to-be-dead fad of pretending to be a tranny to avoid social responsibilities
I don't get how blindly convinced these people seem to be that their borderline retarded political value system
1) should be universally accepted
2) won't be challenged and replaced in the near future
Strictly speaking HYDRA started out as a bunch of reptilian aliens trying to enslave the world, but no one really bothers with Hickman's stuff.
If you go by the "third position" political philosophy of fascism, classic HYDRA is progressive, left-wing Italian fascism.
Commies are fascists too, you get the same authoritarian party rule, just with less food.
HYDRA was a Japanese group that Strucker infiltrated and took over as a way for Red Skull/nazis to hide and build a new power base in secret
...
I never read that storyline, but I thought from seeing the memes it was just classic leftist anti-americanism.
AmeriKKKa, we need more gay trans disabled muslims, stuff like that.
I was hoping for a more cartoonish body broken into a swastika effect, but I'll take it. Thanks.
...
What will happen to the shite Hatsune Miku character?
>Cap isn't a Nazi. He specifically wanted to purify Hydra of Red Skull and his nazi shit.
This is BS and you know it. Go reread Civil War 2 The Oath again.
>Cap isn't a Nazi. He specifically wanted to purify Hydra of Red Skull and his nazi shit.
didn't he saw a world where nazis and hydra were doing every they always have wanted during a vision on civil war 2 instead of being killed by miles?
This is absurd
Cap gets put under special circumstances because of literal comic book magic, turned evil (which obviously will only be a temporary thing) and you're saying the notoriously politically left Nick Spencer is distributing Nazi propaganda
you're not mentally stable enough to distinguish comic book "good guy turned evil" magic from whatever real world politics we're dealing with. Completely out of touch with reality
now get the fuck off my board
I knows it dosen't have anything to do with the thread, but anyone have the Carol kicking a rock image?
>HYDRA actually did start out as a Nazi fifth column force under Strucker
No it didn't. Strucker wasn't even made the leader of Hydra until years after its creation, and that wasn't because Hydra was supposed to be Nazis, it's because they wanted to use an established Fury villain for a surprise reveal as the leader of Hydra and Strucker was one of Fury's main villains during his comics that were set in WWII.
>Spencer's aim is to cement Sam Wilson's position as Captain America.
>most recent Sam Wilson arc ends with him realising how much of a failure he is as Captain America and quitting
I don't see the swastica.
...
No, just Hydra.
Yes, that's the perfect set-up to him reclaiming the mantle after realizing Steve is evil.
I still think Sam is going to end up being the new Patriot.
>Sam
it's some turbonigger named Rayshaun
does Spencer not know black people also have regular names?
Who?
Based on your reaction alone I bet it's a great thing and I want to buy it and read it
...
>Even in death, I must nazi
Oh, please... Steve will be forgiven far quicker for his fascist phase than Carol will...
Author is so god damn stupid.
Does he not understand that Spencer is using "Hydra aren't nazi's guy" as a dogwhistle to parallel the Trump administration?
I would have loved it had Marvel done this to SG instead. And used it as the reason why she looks so butt ugly now.
>legitimate want to know how normies are viewing captain hydra
>wait I forgot normies don't read comics
Every fucking time.
It's my own fault at this point, I don't know why I thought this time would be different.
Everyone who's read the story (IE, neither OP nor his "friend" who wrote the article he's linking) understands that this is something which has been done to Steve and that he's as much a victim here as anyone else. Once this thing which has been done to him gets undone, he'll be back to his old self, looking back on what he was transformed into with horror and outrage.
>Captain Nazi is absolutely tasteless,
i feel like this article is absolutely tasteless.
correction, it tastes like sjw bullshit.
i haven't been following too closely but it was immediately evident from issue 1 that there was some fuckery happening with steve, and my expectation was for steve to become captain american-y in spite of his hydra upbringing. from what i've heard, i think that's what we got. it's actually pretty clever, or at least fairly brave. i applaud spencer for trying something writerly and nuanced instead of writing token tier pandering garbage.
what i didn't like, and the reason why i'm tradewaiting, is that cap did something phenomenally stupid in the first issue by attempting to kill a teammate while still under cover, and not bothering to check that the guy is dead before dumping him out of a plane. i don't know if that figures into the plot but eh.
if the brainwashing were not totally undone, i feel like that would just turn 616 cap into the far more entertaining and falliable ultimate cap, who was on his way to becoming more like 616 before the ultimate universe shat itself to death.
Useless dipshit clickbait from someone who masturbates with an onahole called cultural relevance, and clearly hasn't heard of the word "retcon" before.