Part 10 - A League of One
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Part 1 - Gods and Mortals
Part 2 - Challenge of the Gods I-II
Part 3 - Challenge of the Gods III
Part 4 - Taco Whiz
Part 5 - The Contest (pre-Crisis)
Part 6 - The Contest
Part 7 - The Challenge of Artemis
Part 8 - Paradise Lost + 1988 Bonus Books
Part 9 - Paradise Found + Girl Frenzy: Donna Troy
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Let's get it started in here.
Shake it like a Polaroid picture.
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Watchtower is still the coolest thing ever made.
Also terrasphere runs on Windows
Texas user, I'm scared that when the Wonder Woman movie comes out, those DCEU fans will parade it as an allegorical masterpiece too deep for modern minds. And tip their fedoras to everybody who says they prefer other versions of Diana.
Wow, Superman taking bribes from the church.
It's destiny. And we'll also see "HAHAHA 46% ON RT" threads every day until Justice League comes out.
Strange times are here.
OK, of course the minute I start I have to go deliver some medicine to my grandma.
Really sorry guys, be back in hopefully no more than 20 minutes.
Hey Tex.
Ah, League of One. For some reason there seems to be a divide on this one.
>it's okay when Batman does it
Bump for Grandma.
Hey, Tex, are you planning on posting the Kelly and Waid JLA issues?
OK sorry about that.
Absolutely! The Golden Perfect, something I read pretty recently.
I don't wanna talk much about the movie because I don't plan on seeing it for a variety of reasons.
But I will say the director, Patty Jenkins, actually seems to get the character, and as we've read of Alan Heinberg the writer, he does at least kind of get the appeal of the character. That said, absolutely none of that has manifested in the promotional material for the movie, and I know at least part of that is because of the way DC wants to portray this character in the mainstream now. That's something that extends well beyond the movie though, and is a huge topic.
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Reminds me of when I first story tiemd this on Sup Forums.
They really took a liking to it.
Kelly is a writer I was wholly unaware of until last year. I've been extremely impressed with everything I've read of his.
I find it to be very accessible for people who don't know much about Wonder Woman. It introduces them to the less well-known characteristics that make her so good, but wraps them in the package of what they might have been expecting or hoping Wonder Woman to be, if that makes any sense.
I'm a couple pages behind
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And suddenly we're in The Hobbit...
That is kind of one thing that I found lacking in this book, that it never really explores any clashing of mythologies. You got Wonder Woman, a character steeped in Mediterranean mythology, fighting a traditional European style dragon. Yet the story is very matter-of-factly about it, not really discussing the differences. Still a good story, but that was perhaps a missed opportunity.
Then again, I'm perfectly content with a writer being more concerned with the nuts and bolts of storytelling, rather than being up their own ass trying to be deep.
My best friend in high school wanted to be a mermaid more than anything in the world. Her biggest secret was she had one of those mermaid pajama bottoms that's kind of made for children and slept in it all the time.
>Then again, I'm perfectly content with a writer being more concerned with the nuts and bolts of storytelling, rather than being up their own ass trying to be deep.
This.
That's what makes it really nice for non-Wondie fans. It doesn't really try to do anything special. Like you said that may keep it from being more notable among her history, but you need some solid reads like this.
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>you absurd creature
I'm going to call people this from now on.
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>Diana's greatest fear is that she'll become Regime Wonder Woman
A perfectly rational fear.
It really does serve as solid intro in a makes-you-want-to-read-more sort of way.
Also the art is enjoyable no matter who you are.
Kelly was at a local con (well one of them, it's a long story that can be used to easily figure out where I am from) a few years ago, but I had not read his JLA stuff at the time and skipped out on seeing him
That's a great way to put it and makes it all the more ironic that she's so often depicted as being Injustice Wondie by people who don't get or even try to get her.
He's not a very outspoken guy, so seems like just the kind of person that'd be great to chat with at a con.
I should look up some interviews.
I really blame Mark Waid and Kingdom Come for that.
Kyle, you're lucky you're the only GL Bruce likes.
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I have to say I just love to see the day-to-day operations of the JLA.
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You'd think it'd be common sense not to awaken ancient evils, yet everyone keeps doing it anyway.
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J'onn will fall for this exact trick again in Infinite Crisis.
The art is sort of oil painting, which fits the mood and European fantasy motif.
Also, I fucking LOVE this part here. The League has fucking board meetings! I demand this happen more often.
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I didn't realize Kyle had the "go through walls" GL powers
A Green Lantern will fall for this exact trick again in New 52 Justice League.
>That's something that extends well beyond the movie though, and is a huge topic.
Would you mind elaborating a bit on how you see that? Don't want to force you to talk about it if you don't want to, ofc.
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I mean, Saint George of the dragon fame was a Greek soldier.
And "dragon" as a word is literally derived from the Greek language. Dragons were in Greek mythology, for sure.
There's just a lot to say with it. To put it as simply as possible, the things Wonder Woman is really about; embracing femininity, sexuality, and classically feminine traits like tenderness, love and affection; are not qualities that sell well or that are as easy to demonstrate as traits that define Batman and Superman.
>Yoink! Got yer ring!
I'm not even much of a Lanternfag. I haven't read the book regularly since I was a kid. But it fucking drives me up the wall whenever this happens.
Something that sells pretty well is female empowerment, that is to say, making a woman who can do whatever she wants without being called out for it, or who simply doesn't care about being called out.
Modern feminist characters tend to go more towards the female empowerment direction. And there's nothing wrong with that type of character, as JSA storytime regulars could tell you of Zealot and Artemis.
But Wonder Woman is a character rooted in first and second wave feminism. Making her like Zealot is like making Batman more like the Punisher, or Superman more like the Authority.
In the age of "girl power" being a commodity and a good marketing tool, it makes financial sense to make Wonder Woman more of a power fantasy with a sword who cuts the heads off of monsters from mythology and will kill her enemies. But for a fan like me, it means getting rid of what makes the character special.
At the risk of bringing up power levels garbage... This is why Diana doesn't have a box. It's not a matter of strength, it's that Diana is a bit more pragmatic than most of her comrades. It's like the similar Saturn Girl story, where she tricks her friends in order to save them. Both are less worried about their buddies being mad at them, and more on keeping them alive.
See, some people don't like this story because of the base premise. But I dunno, the way it's portrayed, and given plenty of other WW material, I think it's perfectly plausible.
I can see people unironicly posting the "daily struggle" wonder woman version of that picture. I can't find it, but it was about critics being divided on giving a dceu movie a bad review; or praising it for being woman-led
It's kind of like the meme of Aquaman in that one trailer like drinking a bottle of whiskey or something and smashing it. They're more interested in trying to show you why the character is "cool" than showing you why they're actually interesting. That's just the reality of Hollywood. And you know what? Sure, go ahead and do what you need to with the movies, because I don't really need the movies.
Anyway, I could talk for a very long time about this because it's all tied up in things like how comics are being sold to moviegoers, how women characters are sold, how modern feminists view things, how classical feminists view things, how people view feminists, how feminists view each other, and on and on and on. I've spent a lot of time thinking about it and trying to research why people feel the way they do about Wonder Woman.
I think the basic premise/reason for Diana's actions is kind of weak but the story kind of gets it out of the way quickly, as if to tell you the "why" isn't as important as the "how".
cool beans. comic dump and polite, insightful discussion.
I don't trust this. what did you do with Sup Forums!?
>But for a fan like me, it means getting rid of what makes the character special.
The generic "grrrl powah" crap is just so BORING. Diana is a great character, and whenever DC shoves a sword in her hand, she starts losing all the aspects that make her interesting in favor of (and I hate using this word) pandering to the lowest common denominator.
I wish there was a way to get the general public to understand that the 'strong' part of 'strong female protagonist' does not refer to physical ability.
I mean, it's certainly nice to watch a gal kick some ass, but you need more than that to be interesting.
I try to avoid bringing up feminism in these threads because it's a subject that makes a lot of people just instantly tune out.
But you have to discuss it in some way when talking about a character who was literally created by a classical feminist and who historically has had to go up against every subsequent wave of feminism.
>I mean, it's certainly nice to watch a gal kick some ass, but you need more than that to be interesting.
You don't. I think the key is that EVERYTHING isn't only that, or any one other thing. One of the reasons people have such a problem with Diana is the all things in one women angle they get caught up on.
I remember thinking that Injustice was copying Kingdom Come a bit closely, does anyone know if it was listed as an inspiration?
And thank you to The Texas user for doing this.
Exactly what I was trying to say in a much more succinct manner, thank you.
It's totally possible to write a good "gurl who kicks ass" character, see Zealot and Artemis once again. Just you can also write strong female characters who are NOT that.
I see. Perhaps it would've been better with a time travel element? Like the intro should've been the fight where the League dies, then some god or another sends her back, then it's a bit better than prophecy cause she actually saw it happen?
To once again quote that Jimenez post
>Of course, Wonder Woman suffers – as do all “OTHER” characters – women, minorities, gay people – from the fact that she represents ALL women in some ways, or, at least, the ultimate woman – and therefore her sex and how sex is used/displayed in the texts holds incredible weight.
>In this way, the character is forced into a symbolic role if we like it or not. Indeed, if she felt one way about sex or sex-related (I’ve had interesting discussions with women about Wonder Woman and the character’s feelings about abortion; no matter what her origin in universe, it’s always argued that Wonder Woman is a symbol and represents ideas (which I believe) and therefore must be pro-this and that, regardless of what her character might naturally/instinctively believe), she potentially fails the group that disagrees with her, and if anything, we’re tired of seeing Wonder Woman failing.
>But because women – and men – have different ideas of what the ultimate female character would be – what qualities she possesses, what ideals she espouses, what sex she has and with whom
That would have been a better way to frame it, IMO.
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I just love Bat-God as a supporting character.
And he makes a great antagonist, when you can make it make sense in the story.
I actually think while the minority point is solid Diana has it way worse than your average minority character. A lot gets projected on her whereas you usually can get away with having a random y'know, Southeast Asian and/or gay man or whatever just speaking as a person and not as an icon.
All this complaining about Captain America recently is part of a similar problem though: the character stops being a character foremost and becomes a symbol foremost. I think WW is already that for a lot of people. Anyway, probably nothing new to you here just giving my own two cents.
For example, one of the reasons I won't shut up about Life is Strange is because the protagonist, Max. She is a great protagonist because she has a well fleshed out personality, and her actions and desires drive the story. She's not a badass by any means, but she is still the center of a compelling narrative, proving that 'strong' is all about strength of character, not beating people up. It's awful that people don't get this.
C'mon Flash
I can't even count the number of times that Diana has specifically said "fuck the prophecy" when she hears one she doesn't like.
Just the other day we read one of those times, even!
Yep! Because she's considered THE female superhero, there's a lot of weight on her to be representative of all women, yet also to somehow have the most mainstream appeal. But as we know, if you try to appeal to everyone, you appeal to no one.
Also why there's always a lot of outcry about her appearance.
To me, Diana is the female Superman, in that she's the ideal to strive for, except she specifically represents the best traits associated with femininity.
Not to say she or Superman are perfect, or that they represent qualities that everyone must possess, but that they're the best of us, and make us feel like we can be better.
I can't totally claim to hate the appearance arguments because Wonder Woman redesigns are one of my favorite things.
So it's still odd to me that something like All-Star Superman appeals so much to so many for those very reasons, yet many of those same people want Wonder Woman to be Xena.
Which is why I've been doing these threads. I think if people read enough good Wonder Woman, like with All-Star Superman, they'll "get" why the character is special.
Batman threatens torture and use of chemical/biological weapons.
So what was wrong with saying "there's a prophecy and I'd like to be the only serving member of the league at the time of the dragon event"?
Yeah, prophecies are pretty weak as a plot device. There's only three ways it can go l, really. It's either straight up true, it's true but with a twist, or it's actually utter bollocks. Not really much you can do to make that interesting, but fortunately this is a tightly focused character piece that's more about Diana's personal struggle, so it doesn't matter too much.
But this is supposed to be a fun story without much complication, so let's just let it be fun.
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>a rock with his name on it
Perfect.
Nothing could be more fun than beating up Batman!
She's a big fan of symbolism.
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I keep bookmarking these in hopes of getting around to read them.
How long does it take for an archived thread to 404 completely?
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>So it's still odd to me that something like All-Star Superman appeals so much to so many for those very reasons
Yeah my favorite thing about All Star Superman is all the genius science projects and hobbies he has going on... they don't show that side of Superman enough.
Revenge of the Underpants Gnomes
I'm trying to think of the last time that a prophecy was used well in a comic that I read. Sandman I guess? Those were more about ancient rules that people followed though (same with Lucifer, with Morningstar specifically not doing certain things until there was no other choice)
Dragons are dicks.
That's the moral of the story.
Can't say I know. They'll eventually go on desuarchive.
I do post everything in a dropbox folder, if you'd care to download them
dropbox.com
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