Star vs the forces of evil looks like it'll be memey retard and straight man have wacky bullshit adventures with no...

>star vs the forces of evil looks like it'll be memey retard and straight man have wacky bullshit adventures with no persistent plot
>steven universe looks like it'll be a fun thing with adventures that force a character to start growing up and fufilling their destiny and hidden lore that ties into later episodes
>star vs the forces of evil turns into what steven universe was expected to be, and steven universe turns into what star vs the forces of evil was expected to be

How the fuck did Steven Universe fall so far and Star vs The Forces of Evil rise so high? Plus neither have melted down and openly sabotaged/shut down their own show like Alex Hirsch

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Simple: because Nefcy isn't Sugar.

Tough to say. I hope that Sugar has an actual plan for the rest of the show, but my belief fades with every passing week like Dorian fucking Grey.

I'd like to think we just underestimated Star vs. and the recent and persistent failure of SU is just a temporary downturn / coincidence.

Stop the ride; I want to get off ;_;

>>star vs the forces of evil looks like it'll be memey retard and straight man have wacky bullshit adventures with no persistent plot

Why does everyone immediately that the whole is like that from one glance? Was the advertising for the series that misleading?

Nefcy puts a lot of work into Star Vs The Forces of Evil. Instead of going on cruise control and riding the show while letting all her staffers ruin it like Sugar, she does shit like those fucking in-character live streams and making sure the art design stays consistent and doesn't go to hell

Disney is a better more supportive studio to work for

Cartoon Network is either extremely incompetent or actively attempting to sabotage SU

You mean Disney XD only.
Disney Channel is complete garbage.

Maybe CN needs to finally kick Boomerang into high gear to compete.

Too much filler for SU stagnating the plot coupled with CN's insane release schedule while SvE gains a following precisely because it's not what it looks like on the surface. Granted, SvE is relatively young and has at least two more seasons to potentially turn into SU so don't count your chickens just yet

I watched the first two or three episodes when Star first came out and dropped it for years. It was a rough start

To be honest, I like the idea of Sugar's hands-off approach to things, but the problem is that she can be a little too hands off. If something doesn't look or seen right, she should give them a gentle nudge in the right direction and tell them what they did wrong. A show can have the personality of each storyboarder show up in the episode, but it doesn't have to be such a jarring difference. Also, just make a stinking height chart already.

I love Star and I do think it's gotten much better than it did when it began, but I also think the first few episodes making it feel like it'd always be episodic comedy might make the quality of the better later episodes feel higher than they are. Like, they're still good, but the show's weak beginning lowered expectations enough for something that's good to feel amazing by comparison.

That said I hope it stays at that level or even gets better in the future. I don't like setting my expectations low or high before I've seen whatever, but no matter what the quality of the next seasons ends up being I do think they're going to at least attempt to conclude the major plotlines. Both seasons so far have made an effort to bring stuff to conclusion toward the end and change up the status quo.

>Cartoon Network is either extremely incompetent or actively attempting to sabotage any show that isn't TTGO

FTFY

2 reasons, OP.

Star Vs. is barely at their 35th episode overall while Steven Universe is reaching to 130 almost. So SU has dragged on. lot longer.

Another reason is that Cartoon Network is preferring the Stevenbomb schedule so the writers had to adjust accordingly.

>How the fuck did Steven Universe fall so far and Star vs The Forces of Evil rise so high?

Pic Related got people into lore posting, and also shipping/cuck posting. Also Prequel memes.

YOUR NEW FAVORITE SHIT

Probably a bit of both

It's not that bad unless you're purposefully searching for "mai lore and adult themes" like every other cartoon show

Well, Star does look like a retard, a cute one but still a retard.

Hot damn, Sup Forums sucks at WEG. I have literally never seen a good one posted here.

I think the show could have gone either way that early on. Unfortunately it had the disadvantage of premiering at a time when Gravity Falls and Steven Universe were seen as flawless and had way more episodes by comparison.

So when the first episode didn't BLOW THEIR MINDS the same audience checked out and wrote it off, and didn't realize that by the end of the first 13 half-hours it had already set up enough material for as much of a plot as the other cartoons.

Don't even meme with me bro. The first few episodes are incredibly cliched, and unbearably generic. I'm not even a lore guy, I watch all kinds of episodic stuff with pleasure. Star just wasn't very good at the start, and every time I get someone else into it I have to assure them it gets better.

Ya not usually their just ok.

Steven Universe episodes are 10 minutes. Star episodes are two 10-minute segments.

So that's 130 for Steven and 70 for Star so far(actually 65 because of some two-parters but close enough).

I don't know if you just haven't seen Star or you're pretending to be retarded.

This discrimination needs to stop.
starbutterflyisautistic.tumblr.com/

they're both pretty mediocre desu, except season 1 of SU which is legitimately great

I mean adjusting the numbers doesn't really change the over all point here, SU has had about twice as many episodes, generally speaking more time is more time to fuck up

>adjusting the numbers
I'm not that user, but its basic math

you're saying a show with 1000 1 minute webisodes would be more developed than a show with 500 15 minute episodes by that retarded logic

Please let this tumblr be a parody.

That's definitely true. Not really arguing that Star could get terrible in the future or anything.

I just meant that saying "only 35 vs. 130" is misleading because it doesn't account for what each show gets for episode length/technically Star has done almost twice as many individually stories than the number of half-hour timeslots it has would suggest.

Nefcy actually keeps a close eye and strict rules with her work.

Sugar is way too hands-off allowing her storyboarders and writers to go out of control thus allowing the quality of the show to dip.

Fucking this. Hands-off is nice and all, but you got a least put a few rules and regulations on them so that they go out of control.

Is this Nefcy as new as Sugar to the game? Because Sugar seems like a deer and headlights still. She said she never even considered working on AT until it happened and she loved it. Then CN up and gives her a show of her own. I think she might not be very confident in her abilities and maybe wants to give more people the freedom she had on AT so she lets the boarders do what they want.

Nefcy's like ~2 years older but this is also her first time running a show.

Actually Nefcy's had less experience technically; Sugar was a boarder for a while, but at most Nefcy was a storyboard revisionist for a bit before getting Star approved as a pilot and then a show and becoming exec producer.

Who knows what the difference is between the different studios and crews and all though. Might not be comparable.

I'm pretty sure Nefcy has even less experience, Disney's just a competent company that knows how to mentor.

>Nefcy previously worked on Wander Over Yonder and Robot and Monster as a storyboard revisionist and on Mad as a graphic artist and designer. She was also a character designer for the 2010 family film Elle: A Modern Cinderella Tale, and she was a director, writer, character designer and animator for the segment "March" in the 2012 comedy anthology film Holiday Road.

From some Star vs wiki, so she's done stuff but this seems to be her first major thing as a showrunner? So similar experience to Rebecca Sugar, storyboarding with some extra responsibilities and some comic stuff, but vastly better result

>You will never make loud noises near Star and induce her into an autistic meltdown

This

like how many people are there even to look up to who still work at Cartoon Network?

I get the impression that SU has no idea what it is supposed to be doing anymore, like it lost all sense of direction. Maybe Sugar didn't plan this far ahead, or maybe she only planned the most basic lore stuff and the writers are just improvising everything else. Either way, there is too much inconsistency and too much focusing on irrelevant filler-tier stuff while important plot threads keep piling up and being ignored.

Star vs, on the other hand, clearly knows what it is doing and where it is going. It holds a good balance between lore plot stuff and filler stuff, and is not afraid to retire irrelevant characters that serve no purpose anymore. You can tell that Nefcy has everything planned, not just the basic lore stuff, and the characterisation is much more consistent and well thought through as a result.

I like the Mission-type tactics way of thinking personally, problem is Sugar doesn't seem to be issuing those top down orders other than "make show", for sure.

I'm inclined to believe Sugar had a direction in mind and even a resolution, but didn't expect so many seasons and is just stuffing in fluff. For example Townie episodes used to contain some lore and world building with the monster of the week format. Now the Townie episodes seem to be done out of a sense of obligation to the side characters despite the side characters having no relevance to the main plot or even bothering with world building.

Sugar had some interesting ideas to start and used them up in S1, but now they have to rely on the ideas of the other boarders and they aren't up to snuff.

That's just my hypothesis.

>nothing in SU will top the hype of the Return and Jailbreak

Well for one thing, there are less but better human characters in one show than the other. Also, in one show, they still have most episodes have some magical element to it rather than a complete SoL about characters you don't fucking care about anymore.

Goddamn it, SU if you just look at the lore episodes is actually pretty great but the sheer amount of townie episodes bogs the whole thing down.

eh we're talking about the studios: Cartoon Network flagship shows are made at CN Studios, while both Disney Channel and Disney XD cartoons are made at Disney TV Animation

There's also apparently a bit of a disconnect between the support of the studio and the support of channel; apparently Nickelodeon Animation Studios is a great and supportive place to work at while Nick itself is godawful

SVTFOE is a slow burn that, from the perspective of a "mature" audience, suffers from a rough start.
The first 2/3rds of Season 1 is mostly episodic stuff (which isn't inherently bad) with very mixed quality.
The second episode hits you with Pony Head, an extremely obnoxious character who is highly over-promoted to the point you'd think she's an MC going into the show, even though she (mercifully) only shows up in two episodes.
Star's voice actress has a notably deep voice, which on first impression doesn't seem to fit with "petite bubbly magical princess" and she is clearly "trying too hard" in the first few episodes. She grows into the character very well over the course of the show, especially by Season 2 where the show regularly allows her to show off her range with more emotional depth, but it takes time to get there.

The show is far from "lolrandumb" as a whole but that stretch is where it resorts to that kind of humor most often, which can be very grating to the point where it distracts from the better written jokes.
Hell, Star's signature attack is called "Narwhal Blast." A lot of things about the show have a rough first impression, but when you appreciate what's there long enough for it to grow into what it can be, it's worth the payoff.

...

>Plus neither have melted down and openly sabotaged/shut down their own show like Alex Hirsch
Not for lack of trying with SU.

I wish people would stop posting this massively overreaching turbo-autist stuff when the show has plenty of ordinary appealing lore and worldbuilding.

I gave up on cartoons years ago after seeing the same old situations and themes come up, but Star Vs is a very refreshing show. I mean it's not groundbreaking, but it's very fun. Truth be told I don't recall having this much fun while watching a show ever, so that's nice.

I see a similar trajectory that the (reception of the) two shows are following, and I hope things turn out better for Star Vs. than Steven Universe:

Until a particular mid-season finale, both shows did have existing followings, but they were at best moderately popular and under most people's radar until the episode came out that hyped the fanbase because it confirmed the show was Going Places ("Mirror Gem/Ocean Gem"/"Bon Bon the Birthday Clown.")

After that, the hype built until the season finale, which delivered on some major promises the show (especially that mid-season finale) had made to that point, and by this time the show had become one of the most popular on the board ("The Return/Jailbreak"/"Just Friends/Face the Music/Starcrushed.")

But Steven Universe never again reached the heights of that finale, and my understanding as to why is that it's lost its direction and gotten choked with filler and anticlimaxes (and more!)

"The Return/Jailbreak" were also overshadowed on Sup Forums by the high point of another show: Gravity Falls, with "Not What He Seems" (we had two popular cartoon fan theories involving one character secretly being two characters confirmed within a week!) I wasn't following Gravity Falls during its early days, so I can't say how its trajectory compares, but its decline seems roughly similar to Steven Universe's.

Now, for Star Vs. to avoid ending up like Gravity Falls, Daron Nefcy needs to avoid torching the show to get out of there ASAP (with two more seasons coming, that shouldn't be a problem,) and to avoid ending up like Steven Universe, I'd say that it should avoid convoluting the plot more than it needs to: no soap-opera twists on the romance to blatantly prolong the will-they-won't-they; no making Toffee into a Team Rocket and thus eroding his threat.

In short, I'd say, it should try to avoid artificially speeding up or slowing down its pacing, to avoid wasting plot or wasting time.

>but its decline seems roughly similar to Steven Universe's.

How so?

>no making Toffee into a Team Rocket and thus eroding his threat.

They seem to be doing that with Miss Heinous instead.

star vs isn't actually that impressive you're just blowing it out of proportion because you want a cartoon to compare to SU like you did with Loud House and Gumball and whatever other flavor of the month

Well, you're wrong, but nothing anyone says will convince you so it's fine I guess

yeah sure that's what you said about all the other "so deep and good" fotms before you got bored of them and dropped them like a rock

Oh, well, mainly just in the show peaking before the series finale and not being able to deliver on any of its promises like it had in its high point. For opposite reasons, though: Gravity Falls got rushed to the end and Steven Universe meanders, but they both result in the show feeling like it has a lot of wasted potential, either overall or per-episode. And both resulted in Sup Forums turning on its once-darling.

The last time I cared about a cartoon was Gravity Falls, and I was brutally honest when it started sucking. I'm really more of an Sup Forumsnon, I think most western shit sucks.

I'm a little worried about the "Season 3 curse," but SVTFOE's biggest strength up to this point has been keeping the show going with focus and direction, which is where shows like Steven Universe and Adventure Time went off the rails.
The show has consistently had well-done foreshadowing, from little things like Star accidentally calling her ex-boyfriend half a season before he actually shows up, to very important things like revealing Queen Eclipsa is still alive through an easily missable unemphasized background shot. Story and character developments seem planned well in advance and almost always stick between episodes. The point being, I doubt major developments like the Season 2 finale aren't going to be properly followed up on.

The Season 2 finale is taking a pretty huge risk since it seems like things have been set up for a major shift in the status quo, with the primary setting probably shifting to Mewni instead of Earth. In another show I'd be more concerned, but given their track record up to this point I'm more confident.
It helps that right after the S2 finale aired, they released a huge guidebook with all kinds of information about the setting that hasn't been touched on at all in the show, which reinforces my feeling that they have all the important details and more already planned out well ahead of time.

I'm not going to be worried about falling into "Townie Hell" territory at least until Season 5.

I know that fandoms are usually horrible to begin with, but the Steven Universe fandom is pure poison, the people in it have completely ruined the show for me

SJW ruin everyting

I don't think there's really a Season 3 Curse, I don't see that as being the turning point for all that many shows. The last I can even think of might be Avatar, but that had a good Season 3 until it couldn't stick the landing.

>I hope that Sugar has an actual plan for the rest of the show
It's pretty sure that she does, but she's taking her sweet time, and I'm okay with that.

You want to see a show that has no real plan, that lets storyboarders steer the ship whichever way they damn well please? Try Adventure Time.

>There are people who unironically like Star Vs

Why?

The art looks like shit, the humor is low tier, and the only good character is treated like shit.

> (OP)
>Simple: because Nefcy isn't Sugar.

Translation:

NEFCY IS A MADWOMAN AND I WANT OFF THIS CRAZY RIDE.

Holy shit, I thought they would never, ever top the S1 finale, but then they freaking topped it in the S1 premiere!

I thought they'd never top the S1 premiere, but then Bon-Bon the Birthday Clown hit like a friggin' bomb.

I thought they'd never top Bon-Bon but then Raid The Cave just moved the goalposts into another realm entirely.

I though the S2 finale had to be a disappointment, but then, holy god, those last three episodes!

We're all on Nefcy's madhouse fun ride, and there's no stopping this shit.

Nefcy's madness knows no ends. I'm pretty sure by the time the series finally ends, we'll all have been aged twenty years from the stress and hype the show has caused us.

Don't worry. We'll be able to walk through a portal and find that it's only been ten minutes.

> (OP)
>>There are people who unironically like Star Vs
>Why?
>The art looks like shit, the humor is low tier, and the only good character is treated like shit.

Here's your (You)! Feel better! We're totally paying attention to you now!

>
>Don't worry. We'll be able to walk through a portal and find that it's only been ten minutes.

Oh! Phew, that's a relief....

>Trigger autistic man is upset someone doesn't like his cuck meme show

But user.

You just described any modern western cartoon.

The first one in your image had talentless hacks from tumblr working on it and a spineless creator who can't put her own foot down even if the storyboarders started pissing on the paper they are working on for "artistic freedom" and its main focus is moral didacticism.

The second one had two executive producers that tried to force the show into lol randumb shit but once they left the creator was unleashed to do what she wanted for the show, with a team of writers dedicated to making a fun show without pushing anything blatantly.

>triggered cuck upset his meme lgbtq+ show is shit and the laughing stock of modern cartoons

>cuck triggered to the point of having to building strawmen

>two executive producers that tried to force the show into lol randumb shit
wait what? haven't heard of this, any link.

I used to love SU but then it turned into shit, it gave me trust issues and now I don't even want to try SVTFOE

Because Nefcy is superior to Sugar in every single way.

her teeth are just as creepy as rebecca's

Those two are around the same age, but Nefcy looks like a soccer mom while Sugar looks like a 14 year old jewish boy going through puberty.

Wait, you mean Star isn't just memey SoL shit with the occasional bout of action, ala TTGo or Powerpuff Girls?

"no"
youtube.com/watch?v=b8eBitB1NVY

Both are shit.

Nah son, shit gets deep into character development, like for reals season 1 Star is so different from season 2 Star. Heres a scene from the S1 finale for spoils.

youtube.com/watch?v=O9P5e2XsdXU

>Malachite dragging herself into the ocean to be bound there for eternity still hasn't been topped.

Damn that was actually pretty cool even with next to no context.

So does that mean she doesn't have powers anymore after this?

Malachite/Jasper/Lapis should never have come back

Well, is from season 2 so...

Her wand isn't actually "destroyed," just "broken." It still works, but it's funky now and her spells start being more sensitive to her emotions. They tend to go bad when she feels stressed, or upset, or jealous.
Hint: she starts feeling those things a lot more in Season 2.

Also, she can actually do magic without the wand, which she (sort of) learns to do in the first episode of Season 2.

>yfw Nefcy will never be your mom and take you on wild rides
Why even live?

>The art looks like shit

I'm glad to see someone else agrees

SU isn't much better but I seriously cannot stand the ugly stupid eyes in Star Vs

Is there some coordinated effort to shill Star Vs. by Disney? The show's good but jesus christ it's not "lore heavy" lmao

There we have it folks. Thread's over. SU wins again

when homestuck general got banned the population fled to everything even slightly similar they could find. that was gravity falls, star vs, and steven universe. things 'toony' and with puzzles/mysteries to solve, since that's just how they've learned to enjoy ongoing media they approach(ed) them with the same mass speculation and loreposting normally only found in hypercrisis threads
its not some big conspiracy

>it's not "lore heavy"
youtube.com/watch?v=aFMWv1Z5UvI
There is plenty of "lore" and worldbuilding going on.
It's not exactly heavy, but that's a good thing; there's a history going on but it's not shoving things in your face that aren't important, or jerking itself off with pretentions of being "deep"

Wait, what Prequel memes?

>shy

You guys haven't seen the Star vs fandom have you? A lot of people on tumblr who feel that SU has been lacking in terms of progressiveness or whatever have been flocking to Star.

Some people are/were expecting Star to go full Anakin, turn to Dark Magic and accept Eclipsa as her new mentor.
Toffee or Eclipsa stand-in for Sheev.
The Magic High Commission is the Jedi Council.

Which is hilarious because it's not anywhere near SU's level.
There's a "progressive" lean to it, but it absolutely takes the piss out of a lot of "girl power" stuff and keeps things firmly grounded. Conflicts and characters are complex and flawed, Star is shamelessly lustful, casually racist against monsters and merfolk, and consistently fails at being a "strong independent warrior princess" when she fails to recognize her flaws and refuses help from people who know better.

Svtfoe needs to resolve the Jackie/Starco thing this coming season. Fans will probably riot if Starco is squashed for good, but we'll see.

The main balancing act to the rest of the show's run (besides the romance stuff I mentioned) is the drama/comedy ratio. I know a lot of people might see the comedy episodes as filler, but I kind of feel like they're essential.

>Conflicts and characters are complex and flawed, Star is shamelessly lustful, casually racist against monsters and merfolk, and consistently fails at being a "strong independent warrior princess" when she fails to recognize her flaws and refuses help from people who know better.
Not to mention Marco is just as if not even more lustful, is pretty damn good at karate AND manages to keep up good grades.

I don't flock to a show for 'progressivism' or whatever, but I can kind of see it. Star is really the main character of her show. She makes choices that actually effect the course of the plot (unlike, say, Hunger Games). She unapologetically has sexual desires. She's also flawed, so she doesn't fall into the Mary Sue trap.

>Star is shamelessly lustful
She wants the D(iaz) really bad. For reals tho, the show can be legit turned into a harem anime. Marco has like 4 girls thats sorta into him.