How could one character convincingly beat a speedster without being a speedster themselves?

How could one character convincingly beat a speedster without being a speedster themselves?

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Play a sheep till they underestimate you and strike at the legs. That or a fuckton of bombs and a shitton of planning. Maybe you just are so strong that a super-speedster would break his hands before hurting you. Captain Colds "freeze aura" always was pretty neat to me where you slows down the Flash long enough for him to get a few good hits in.

By manipulating time, duh.

psychically control them

Does the speedster have super strength or can they just run fast?
You ask me, a brick powerhouse should be mostly invulnerable against punches, no matter how fast

Reality warping, obviously
Teleportation with insta reaction, too, he'd grow tired of trying to hit you eventually
In fact, I think that's the best substitute for being an actual speedster that I can think of

Didn't Deathstroke manage to do that?

Which is why I used the qualifier "convincingly".

You know speedsters are stupid righ? I mean talking about OP MC... Just watch quicksilver fron DOFP and you have your answer. But hey, how did batman beat the flash qith his endgame armor? yep spilling some oil in the floor, if thats the case why not a fucking banana peel? seriously I hate fucking speedster

By being Danny Phantom.
youtube.com/watch?v=2djx83-4XNQ

>can phase through object
>can possess people
>can shoot beams of ghost energy
>can turn invisible

Electrify themselves (like a stun suit)? When the speedster punches them, ka-zap!

Well if a speedster lacks super strength/durability then you can have a scenario like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=_wdvzFUjoEQ

>How could one character convincingly beat a speedster without being a speedster themselves?

Gravity powers, Psychic powers, Magic. There's a lot of ways.

Martian Manhunter could fuck up Reverse Flash every time by going intangible and just mind rapping him. He wouldn't even need to move

If someone with super-strength punches the ground, how powerful would the shockwave be?

The element of surprise

Oh wow. You're right. Having people that have ghost powers be a villain is scary.

Depends on their level of strength. Spider-Man has super strength but he's not going to crack a continent like Superman

We have those. They aren't used nearly as well as they could be

the flash outran teleportation.

>no matter how fast

Please stop.

Marbles

>the flash outran teleportation
With the assistance of the entire population of earth generating speedforce simultaneous

Stabbing therm to death while they aren't looking as Thomas does in this exact comic. Do you even read comics?

...

Shaker style powers. Basically powers that effect a large area, which could be kept as a aura around you. Like a cold field. Or Null gravity. Or super heightened gravity. or a slow time. Or constant explosions. Or Fire. Or water (which could be done by a hydro kinetic keeping a bubble of water around them.

...

"hit" them with something they dont know and hope you could take them out on the first try

I'm thinking something like invisible(or maybe just well camouflaged/placed) super adhesive then hope the speedster rips out his leg or trips and gets stuck in it

So Dumb. He would be seeing Batman move in slow motion.

Also how has he never discovered this in all the years he has been a speedster? Can Speedsters fall through the earth if they vibrate fully? Haven't speedsters dodged full body attacks by blurring, without falling through the floor?

Stupid Batwank.

>strike at the legs

The entire body of a speedster moves quickly, it's not like if you take out his legs he's all of a sudden as slow as you because he can't run. It sounds ludicrous but if we take the powers straight, a speedster could drag himself around with his hands and still be too fast for you to see. Or he punch you in the face a thousand times in the time it takes for him to fall regardless of how powerful the blow to his legs was. Taken literally speedsters are just 2stronk

joke
your head

Building a narrative where speedsters have weaknesses and most powers are on par with others.
Godd weaknesses apart from fatigue, friction, difficulty to slow down, time distortion?

Telepathy - indirect and remote attackers, Flash needs to see me, I wouldn't, there's tons I could do, Grodd never does anything more than cause pain in a general sense.
Telekinesis - this is mind over matter, nothing Flash can do if I control his body, hold him in the air
Teleportation (able to teleport others) - Flash is now in a high orbit over Chile
Spell caster - this is so general, it could apply everything above and also turn flash into a sea horse
Entropic manipulation (cold powers) - this should be instant deathdealing, stopping all molecular movement, creating a single one inch in diameter ice sphere anywhere within Flash's body should be devastating

>fall through the earth if they vibrate fully?
This... seriously wtf? I was thinking the same siht, and that is the user and myself, and we dont get paid for writing this shit.

You are forgetting stride user, stride... even fucking wally west at limited speed shoulda be making 60 to 70 yd strides... try avoiding traffic t that speed

Assuming you have no innate superpowers the only way to defeat a speedster without superspeed is preparation. Those with superpowers can win by just being too tough to be hurt.

Now on the preparation front:

1: If the speedster isn't capable of thinking as fast as he moves (AKA he's a normal human that moves really fast) you can potentially bait him into attacking with a counter prepared. Could be anything, from a trap to a martial arts attack to deathstroke's various bullshit. The main reason that stuff is bullshit is that the flash IS supposed to think as fast as he moves. If the speedster lacks that ability, however, you can exploit it. A speedster with the ability to think as fast as they move is immune to this, however.

2: Instant contingency plans. That is to say stuff like Dr. Strange's built in magic spells that make him more durable if he's attacked, and only kick in at those times. Magic is a learned skill, so this is something anyone could potentially do with the right education. You could apply similar effects with mad science equipment as well. This only works if it's absolutely instantaneous. Anything less means a speedster hitting you in the face. This simply means he won't be able to knock you out right away, which is vital to winning.

3: Time stop - especially as a contingency spell against a speedster attacking you. Mad science could also do it. Stop time or lure them into a trap where time moves more slowly.

4: Area dangers, like dosing an area with nerve gas. They're fast but still have human senses so they won't know until it's too late because many chemical weapons look just like water or turn into a clear vapor.

5: Play the man. Know the psychology of the speedster and what will control their actions. Whatever makes someone emotional enough to act without thinking can be used to force someone to act in a time and place of your choosing. Use that to lead them into a trap.

6: If they're not faster than light speed use lasers.

easy
trap them on a giant boomerang and launch them into space!

You fool.

Microscopic lazer wires. Odorless poison gas. Hell, many speedsters can be taken out with an oil slick next to a pile of hard rocks.

Speed is a liability and writers constantly have to wave their hands and say "speed force wooooo" in order to get their characters out of trouble.

er razor wires

Spike their food with a powerful sedative and rape them.

speedster picks them up, carries them someplace stupid. Like, outerspace, middle of volcano, in a bank vault, buries them underground, etc.

both only as fast as thought.

these only work if the speedster doesn't know you are coming.

Doesn't really make sense. How selective can his durability be? He literally subjected himself to speeds that would turn the air around him into plasma. His legs would be dust. Acceleration and deceleration alone would turn his insides into pink paste. I'd get it if he had some sort of tactile telekinesis that allowed his body to maintain its structural stability at those speeds, but that same tactile energy would also protect himself from something such as errant drops of rain. This is just cherry-picking physics to justify an otherwise creative, yet unrealistic death.

well thats stupid. the air would kill them. they would suffocate/be torn apart by friction. Be 100% blind, without goggles.

Stick your head out of a car going 40mph and see how well your body handles air resistance.

that guy, dodging bullets and fast enough to turn water into bullets would be doing like 1800mph+.

Throw a boomerang.

Poison them. If a speedster's entire body works at the same speed, then poisoning them would be effective. They flash can't out run his own metabolism, he'd just speed it up

Wait, is it PRT power classification?

Martian Manhunter is OP as fuck. He has an entire team of superhero powers all combined. Psychic, Paragon, Shapeshifter, Heat Laser, Regenerative, Intangibility, Invisibility, Genius Detective. Split his powers up and you have a new team of X-Men.

Goku did it better.

>Entry-Level
This can be anywhere from "peak human" to "Slightly above peak human". Likely, at the very least, able to flip a Volvo on to its side, or lift an entire motorcycle above their head. Both are quite possible by even IRL standards, as competitors on "World's Strongest Men" used to do shit like this all the time.

Mostly able to cause a small shockwave through the ground. You have to remember, this isn't even so hard. Remember in Highschool when a kid would FLIP the fuck out and slam their chair or something and you could feek it in the next class over? Yeah. Really not that impressive. Unless they've also got super durability or super pain-tolerance to be able to do it again and again and again, the ground probably might not even crack, depending on where the person's standing.

>Street-Level
You're automatically upgraded to "increased durability" levels now. At this point, your own muscular contractions would lead to failing health and visible pain if it weren't for your secondary powers of superhuman robustness. You can rip phonebooks in half and lift cars above your head. Also, by "rip phonebooks in half", I don't mean it in the meem "lmao cheque this shit out" way that allows any chump to rip a phonebook in half using leverage and physics and shieeeet. I mean at this point, you can literally tear it apart with your bear hands, like you're tearing apart an uncooked slab of steak.

You can probably crack the ground if you try hard enough, but you're still faaaaaaaar from creating any visible fault lines.

E=MC*V

Demigod-Level
Okay, now we're talking big leagues. We're talking "using the power of your own legs to propel yourself a a quarter of a mile through the air". Fuck me, you wouldn't even need to slam the ground with your fists or anything. Just JUMPING at those insane ranges would lead to cracks and tremors ebbing through the sidewalk. You spend your spare time dragging 70 year old battleships behind you from shore to port. You once threw a baseball bat into the air at a baseball game for charity, and it took 2 whole minutes for the bat to go up and finally come down. You're strong as fug, brah. 'Mirin hard.

You punch the ground and not only does the area around you immediately depress a few inches in some sort of semi-completed sinkhole the people that are around you begin to lose their balance as well.

Tiny-ass blip on the Richter Scale.

>C.O.E-Level (Champion of Earth Level)
You're Superman. You're Sentry. You're Hulk when he's going to wage war against planets mode. You're Doctor Manhattan strong. You defy the laws of physics. It's not even possible for muscles to be so strong, it's probably tactile telekinesis or low-level reality warping that's doing all the heavy lifting for you.

You punch the ground, you cause an earthquake. Depending on how mad you are? A big one. In some continuities, you can split continents in half. Measuring your ability at this point is meaningless and arbitrary. You can cause so much chaos and destruction with just one punch, there's no point on putting a number on just how strong you are.

>Galactic-Conquerors Level
Why even bother? You can destroy planets at a whim. Why even bother trying to punch an earthquake into existence? You do that everyday with just your teeth. It's ridiculous.

Depending on the book it'd make sense for stealth to be effective

At this point, Flash has managed to outrun Death itself. Flash can get ridiculously overpowered depending on who writes him.

I recall one early Flash story where he saves a train about to fall from a broken bridge by quickly running to a library, reading books about engineering and then progressively building the bridge underneath the train as the train is passing through it.

He'd easily be the strongest hero of DC if Superman wouldn't be able to reverse time or punch reality.

Faaaaaaaaaaar faster. He was purposely cutting it close when dodging those bullets in mere fractions of a millisecond. A bullet (.38 or 9 millimeter, I think the one she's using) travels at about 1,200 to 1,400 miles per hour. At that close of a range, at those angles of evasion, he could probably, if he really wanted to, run back and forth between the bullet and its intended target several times before the bullet finally reached its destination. He HAS to be at least 4 or 5 times faster than a bullet to do the shit he did in that brief scene. And that's just at the very LEAST. The idea that pun drops of rain would be anything to him but a nuisance seems incredibly out-of-touch with the implied realistic atmosphere of the anime.

He was also able to see the Atom. That whole fight was bullshit.

Depending on how fast they're going. If these are speeds of 300+ mph, then everything barring the odorless gas might work (run too fast for the gas to even enter his system).

If it's The Flash speeds, lasers might not even be able to affect him at all. At those speeds, he's not even human. He's just an intangible...thing that moves really, really fast.

Nowadays they explain it all off with "Speed Force" which pretty much acts like magic. Prevents him from bumping into stuff or tripping because he has this magical barrier around him.

>Telepathy - He's mind move to fast for you
>Telekinesis - He'll just vibrate out of your hold

He's not at super speed constantly, usually telepaths aside from Grodd can just get you from where they're sitting with their mind. It's a matter of making the decision to take his mind.

It's not a physical hold, there's nothing around him to vibrate out of.

One would think speedsters need super-reaction times as well, so the moment you attempt to do something they have already reacted to it.

Only real protection is to be impervious to their semi-superhuman attacks. But then some of them just can go back in time and erase your existence by killing your parents before they even fuck.

Speedsters are stupid powerful.

One would not.

If what you imply is true then existence is an long arduous wait for the world to catch up to their senses.

Speedters slow down, its how more regular foes tag them.

The alternative is the old canon explanation for quicksilver's surliness, that he can't slow down his senses and reactions so he is perpetually annoyed by waiting.

Captain Cold fucked up Johnny Quick in their first meeting during forever evil. Obviously speedsters can be beaten by normies.

By making the rest of the world go even faster.

>Speedters slow down, its how more regular foes tag them.

translation: Speedsters act conveniently like retards so the plot would not implode on itself. This is a common problem with Superman as well who frequently forgets his superpowers so the villain can do something dramatic and not just be stopped immediatly.

Rebooted universe should stay in cape comics, I'm still mad.

>no matter how fast
More speed on the same mass means more power. Not to mention the lightspeed scenario that the Flash has...

All of those powers belong to J'onn. Just replace "ghost energy" with "martian energy".

Stay put socks!

His power is going fast, not staying in constant super speed.

In Grodd's case he should own Flash, but apparently his telepathy against flash works like a gun where he needs clear line of sight. It's not a matter of speed, but reach. As usually written, most telepaths can just target flash from where they are, no need to be near him. Its not something he can see coming.

Forget possession or turning off his vital functions, even the simplest telepathic illusion could be devastating, he thinks he's running through open space and he is being forced to run through crowded buildings and other solids without vibrating safely.

If Speedforce negates nearly all physical laws in order to allow him to GOESFAST, why would his mass be effected at all?

man I'm glad I don't pay for this shit

Its conveniently selective.

While he does increase his relative mass, apparently he avoids creating gravity well to compete with the planet's.

Depends on what the speedster can do. If we go with a must obey the laws of physics then any rapid fire weapon would probably kill them, if we go Flash level then we need our own bullshit power to compete.

it sounds cool

This, if the Flash gave time for Pucci to get a good acceleration going he would get btfo by the fag clergyman

Well that is the inspiration. After reading Worm I Think of Superhero powers in terms of PRT classifications.

The Speed Force protects Flash from impact, without that he would have killed himself here.

Underrated

Have some kind of protective ability that activates before the user is aware of it

Speedster can only "go" fast; they don't have super reflexes/reactions

Time manipulation

Excessive (read: Batman levels) of foreplanning

Maybe it's magic water because it was brought down by the girl's power, and in that setting, implied secondary powers don't apply to effects of primary powers?

Surprise them and get hit on the speedster from behind. They can't stop what they do not perceive.

>He would be seeing Batman move in slow motion.
Speed Force users don't have this slow-mo perception turned on constantly.

>if thats the case why not a fucking banana peel?
Now watch and learn, here's the deal.

He doesn't lack strength or durability, when he can move at at the least 1500m/s in bursts.

What he lacks, is fine control.
And a real battleplan.
His weakness looks like he has the reaction of a speedster, at a selective level, but his movement needs to be on a set path.
It looks like he was scared of bullet spread too.

I was going to say ice gun...

>a move created specifically for "who would win" threads

I don't remember it much, but I think I bought it because Bart was a retard most of the time back then.