Anyone wanna red pill me here on the origin of hydra and when it was created...

Anyone wanna red pill me here on the origin of hydra and when it was created. Did they start as actual N A Z I S because i'm gettng tired of the whole Hydra are Nazis meme going on, is this a normie thing going on

>anyone wanna spoonfeed me?
Why would anyone want to waste their time doing that?

They're a Nazi splinter cell. So yeah, they like supernazis.

They were a thing before Nazis and just so happen to have Nazis on board who wanted it to be more like Nazism.
It's like saying San Francisco was always a place full of fags.

Eh i'm curious on the situation people are losing their minds with this whole thing I mentioned that nazis weren't realted to hydra and that only red skull was the real nazi and someone said that Jack Kirby made hydra to be Nazis to justify that hydra has always been nazis

How about you go read some comics instead of asking for second-hand information and becoming yet another ill-informed dumbass adding to the noise?

If you don't care enough to find out first-hand, then you don't need to be part of the discussion. There's already enough non-comic reading idiots throwing a shitstorm over this.

Multiple origins. It was a millenary organisation, asian secret cult turned westerner, nazi splinter group

Problem wuth hydra is that most of their real big bads sans madame hydra are originally nazi era cap villains, and pre movies hydra was vastly under developed as a group so the closest thing they had for an identity stuck and that was nazis

>ancient chinese secret society that's a shell of its former self
>some german dude finds out about it. likes their angle
>goes back to nazi germany
>funds his own version of that secret society
>allies with the nazis
>nazis take over this group from the inside
>hitler dies
>group splinters so hard there's like ten people who all think themelf the supreme leader at any given moment.
>some of those splinter groups are nazi sympathisers, some are just fascists, others are just terrorists, yet others are little more than mercenaries


but what really matters is that hydra exists as a stand-in for nazis. they were put there by the writers to be nazis and no matter what any future writer does they will always be nazis at their core

>I don't actually know the truth but I know who I want to disagree with. provide evidence so I can feel smug about myself

Ya know that was the forst thing I did. But then I got lazy and decided to go here will I read up on this again yes but right now no

Hydra is like thousands of years old, wasn't always called Hydra but has been for a long time. In Secret Warriors, Nick Fury finds out Hydra was so big they were running SHIELD right under his nose the whole time. He also learns everything that they had their hands in which ranges from Roxxon to The Hand to A.I.M. and just basically involved in running half of the world from the shadows

Hydra is a much bigger thing that some division of Hitler's Nazis. The Nazis were just someone they were manipulating to advance their own agendas

That's a fucking retcon. Hydra was founded, post-WWII, by Nazis after they got their shit pushed in.

Go to bed, Remender.

They are full-on Nazis. The ancient Asian origin is just what inspired the name and shit.

Yes. They did.

No they weren't they were appeared in a nick fury book as literally James Bond villians BEFORE captain America first appeared and ww2 broke out,they aren't nazis even if they are in the films

Read a book nigga.

>thinking Nick Fury existed before WWII

Holy shit you're a fucking retard. Stop posting.

Hickman but hey you tried.

Basically they were meant to be the Marvel version of ODESSA, a conspiracy theory about SS officers who escaped the Nuremberg war trials and who help other SS officers escape to places like Argentina and the Middle East with fake identities and everything. There's a book by Frederick Forsyth about them if you're interested.

You stupid asshole, Nick Fury first appeared in the 60s. His backstory was fighting Nazis in WW2, his first "modern" (in-universe) appearance was teaming up with the Fantastic Four to hunt down the mysteriously alive Adolf fucking Hitler.

Okay so like a squillion years ago there was the Society of the Shield and the Society of the Spear. No prize for guessing who the Shield guys became. The Spear guys were from China and worshiped the Deviants, who are like what happens when a god has a birth defect basically. They had this philosophy that they're unstoppable because of their numbers. When one dies, two more take its place.

This resulted in the organization falling apart because all the people in the know got replaced by idiots that don't know what the fuck they're doing, but they kept to a core philosophy: The strong must rule the weak with an iron fist. Eventually their origins were forgotten and they became known as Hydra.

When the nazis became a thing, they tried to absorb the nazis into their ranks because they both believe in that philosophy. What they didn't account for was the Red Skull. He basically outmaneuvered the Society of the Spear guys and formed a new Hydra out of nazis and nazi sympathizers the world over.

Captain America was recruited by Madame Hydra, one of the remaining Society of the Spear veterans, to retake Hydra from the Red Skull and use it to consume the world. The Allies (and presumably S.H.I.E.L.D.) created the first Cosmic Cube to rewrite reality so that the nazis are incompetent fuckups that lost World War 2. Ignore the posts about them retconning the Holocaust into reality, that didn't happen, but frankly the idea of the nazis winning in the "real" reality still makes me feel gross. Because of this retcon, the moral paragon we know as Cap came into being, and the real Steve Rogers was erased, until the Red Skull used the same Cosmic Cube to turn Steve into Hydra, which brought back the original Cap.

The reason everyone goes OMG CAP IS A NAZI is because Marvel jerks off to the concept of movie synergy, where Hydra originated with the Nazis. Also because they wear black suits with red armbands now instead of the old goofy green jumpsuits.

thanks for taking it seriously

Pretty sure the MCU has Hydra as originating from a cult worshiping a human turned monstrosity by aliens.

>The reason everyone goes OMG CAP IS A NAZI is because Marvel jerks off to the concept of movie synergy, where Hydra originated with the Nazis
>Pretty sure the MCU has Hydra as originating from a cult worshiping a human turned monstrosity by aliens.

This is such fucking bullshit.

Yes, takes to Hickman’s SHIELD and Secret Warriors you can argue that HYDRA is actually a billion years old super conspiracy and only later assimilated neofascist organizations like the THULE society etc... but that doesn’t change the fact that the most modern incarnation, created in WWII was organized, overseen and controlled by nazi officers and nazi war criminals, and continued to be such a thing even in modern times. That means the thousands of men and women that currently form the group cannon fodder, joined their ranks because they recognized in those ideals. Unless Steve managed to an off-screen recruitment drive that convinced not-nazis to join and organization closely resembling Nazis, he’s currently guiding an army of right-wing racist nutters.

And if you want to handwave it all saying “Oh Steve is following the original millennial cult HYDRA” well I’d like to remind you that right at this moment among the Captain’s closest henchmen include such personalities as Zola, a nazi war criminal, Faustus, a neonazis himself, and Crossbones a former skinhead that worshiped the original Red Skull.

>being this illiterate

I hope you take it seriously and don't just go the "ACKSHULLY" route, because it is ostensibly a nazi group, it was run by nazis through most of its existence in comics, and was all in the service of Red Skull trying to bring back Nazism until later retcons.
Now should people be mad about cap being hydra/nazi? No, fuck no, Kirby literally had the guy heil hitler, so no, no one should be mad. It's retarded.

...

Chink branch of SHIELD went rogue and turned itself into HYDRA after its collective metaphorical heads got too big from saving the world a few times

HYDRA got way too big and splintered into various factions, all calling themselves the true HYDRA (you got your Nazis, your snake cultists, your bio-terrorists, etc). They work together on occasion with some becoming top dog over the others and so on.

>the Marvel version of ODESSA
Now this sounds good. Why didn't they use this?

But you don't understand

They are loyal to Hydra. It's Hail Hydra not Hail Hitler

They're like Lovecraft Mythos Satanists who started in the Ancient Orient and eventually fell in league with Nazis because they share the same basic values.
Red Skull was a latecomer to their organization, he's pure Nazi.
Most Hydra leaders are just evil and soulless and want to enslave the planet by turning your children into zombies.
Racism has nothing to do with it for them.