Why is Poison Ivy a villain? It seems like she could accomplish her goals a lot better by working legally

Why is Poison Ivy a villain? It seems like she could accomplish her goals a lot better by working legally.

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what comic is that?
any link to this?

I don't see any need for an Ivy face turn with the Killer Frost redemption story we're getting now. We should return Ivy to get good old days as a selfish villain.

Because she is an enemy of capitalism.

lol

Killer Frost and Ivy should hook up.

Wouldn't that be fatal for Ivy?

So is she going to go down on savages?

Ivy was a retarded sjw before being a retarded sjw was even a thing

I was looking for the page where she's MCing a dictator in some South America country to be her personal bank account but I don't have it. Have one of Ostrander/Yale Ivy being bae instead.

I prefer this characterization a million times more than Pam, misunderstood genius and feminist plant warrior.

Nah, Second-Wave Feminism was already a thing when she was simply "plant-themed thief with poisonous kisses"

Source for this and these?:

Looks like Suicide Squad

Ostrander and Yale's Suicide Squad.

Let me also be a faggot for a second and post a review/opinion piece that really hits on a lot of stuff I adore in that run: comicosity.com/comic-love-ostrander-yales-suicide-squad-me/

A lot of the stuff in that article is the reason I look at this when I'm presented with the quirky young female line-up of Marvel as the books I *should* be into.

She was a villainess before she was an eco-terrorist. Originally, she just wanted to be infamous.

Later on, in the Bronze Age, there was a story arc where she used some kind of mind control on the Wayne board of directors, including Bruce, but she didn't use them to do anything overtly villainous - she just quietly embezzled money as a subplot, while Batman still did his thing. She turned a man into her first plant/human hybrid in this story, and IIRC it also introduced the idea of her being able to mind control men (lesbians weren't mentioned yet), but she was still just out for money.

In the late 80s and early 90s she appeared in a few stories that continued this theme of her exploiting lonely rich men, with increasingly bigger scope to her ambitions, culminating in Denny O'Neil's Batman/Green Arrow: The Poison Tomorrow where she planned to use her benefactor's scheme to kill most of the world's populace, effectively making her a female Ra's al Ghul. The plant fixation was still in the works tho.

I haven't read some of her appearances in books like Lois Lane or Black Orchid, so I could be missing something, but I believe BTAS introduced the idea of Ivy as an extreme ecoterrorist who could be defeated by holding a houseplant hostage.

Since then, an overlap of Harley/Ivy fans combined with waifufaggotry of the highest order, combined with the tide of "muh problematic depictions of evil wimmin" to result in her being some sort of antiheroine in the nu52.

To answer your question OP, her goals have changed a lot over the years, but her first depiction to be all "We have to Save the Earth!" was also all "...and the only way to do that is KILL ALL HUMANS!"

Cuz she's nucking futs.

Why do people always seem to love stories about criminals walking the line between reformation and continued evil?

Because it's a really good source of character drama and conflict?

The way I see Ivy, it's not only that she fights for plants, it's that she is so disconnected from other humans that plantlife became her family. It's not only a fight for the "right" of nature, it's a war against the humanity she feels too different from. It's why I like the idea of Harley and her having some kind of relationship, even if I don't like the way it's been portrayed; for her it's a huge step in a good direction.

It's also why I think there should be more stories that involve Ivy and the Robins. If we go by the "every Batman villains is a shadow of himself" interpretation, the well-intentionned extremist is more or less covered by Ra's. Instead, I prefer a parallel based on the fact that both of them found a new family in their new life. Bruce has the Robins, Ivy has the plants. Bruce's family helps him fight crime to help society, Ivy's family helps her fight society.

There's also the whole angle about her sexuality and the Robins going through puberty, but that's a whole other matter.

>Since then, an overlap of Harley/Ivy fans combined with waifufaggotry of the highest order, combined with the tide of "muh problematic depictions of evil wimmin" to result in her being some sort of antiheroine in the nu52.
This also leads to OP question, where you have to go through hoops to explain why she's a criminal.

Momcore?

Is this copypasta? Honestly I think you can build an arc and do clean up that starts here and ends here but man do I hate the pure antihero depiction of Ivy. It reeks of the women cannot be allowed to be bad shit.

Speaking of frost, can't she survive in the sun? If she is that cold, do comic writers understand just how broken of a power that is? She can auto freeze everything around her, and reduce atoms to a slowdown. Any hero that is not on or near Superman's level is dead. She could freeze the very air and water in someone like Batman's body.

discovery.com/tv-shows/frozen-planet/videos/icy-finger-of-death/

because she thinks killing people for stepping on roses is the right thing to do

Its a better reflection of humanity than the concept of the infailable hero who's always the golden boy and won't do what it takes to win. Characters with good intentions but dark methods are more relatable because we as humans have ideals but we know reality is different, the smart ones anyway

She can be defeated by getting put in a refrigerator

Just wrote that.
I'd add that there's plenty of meat to be found in the way Bruce and the Robins buttheads all the time while Ivy has complete control over her allies. Sh'd be a reminder of what Bruce would be like if he gets too controlling and doesn't let his kids grow on their own.

Yes, she can both survive and thrive in the sun. And sometimes writers do remember it- there's a Superboy story where Superboy is unable to punch Frost because getting close to her skin burns his hands, and when he tries to hit her with a lamp post, it freezes and shatters as soon as it contacts the air around her. Generally she has to actively try and drain heat around her to be that cold, though.

Somebody should make a Frost thread. She's a pretty interesting character.

>It reeks of the women cannot be allowed to be bad shit.
That's what most galls me about the Poison Ivy League and others like them - they don't realize they're basically the equivalent of fujoshits going "Loki dindu nuffin!"

Loki didn't do anything though.

Loki did tons of shit senpai.

Something about hating humans for hurting >"muh mother nature".

Shadow of the Bat

I like the cut of your jib, user. I think Damian especially would have an interesting dynamic with Ivy, if only because with her controlling nature and desire to cleanse the Earth she'd remind him of his mom.

Shut the fuck up, stupid nigger.

KEK

the last two are from Ostrander's Suicide Squad

the first is Shadow of the Bat #3

potential character development

that and villains are more free to do things in comparisons to heroes

Honestly, the BTAS one is one of the only Poison Ivy depictions that seemed legitimately mentally ill.
Earlier versions in comics make her seem like a nonviolent criminal manipulator: a con woman basically. Now she seems more like a hardcore environmental terrorist.

BTAS had Ivy misblame people like Harvey Dent for a digging up a field to build a prison (even though Bruce Wayne actually paid for it) simply because he was the highest profile figure, and the field was EMPTY except for a single type of wildflower and that was what set her off, suggesting a huge inability to empathize with people and an inability to assign mental priorities in a rational way.
She also did that thing where she started her false "family", but even though the human guy she was spending time with initially liked her and she admitted that she DID want to start a family, but only really seemed capable of empathizing with them when they were plant hybrids even though creating them forced her to commit crimes by proxy again, once again suggesting a deep inability to really psychologically empathize with humans. Her falling in love with Harley doesn't really gel with these earlier depictions, but I think we can agree that that at least partially was because Bruce Timm and Paul Dini thought it would be hot, just like how Zatanna got put into BTAS literally only because she's one of the two's fetishes.

I have also a question
>Why is Ivy so smol?

Early BTAS really seemed to play up on the psychological element of Batman's villains.

Mr Freeze had his disassociation with the rest of the human race stemming from an act of personal betrayal, but ironically despite being one of the crazier of Batman's villains originally becomes icily rational instead.
Clayface you can see has strong elements of narccisim and self-absorbedness but also pathos in that now not only was his life a series of lies (as an actor), now the only shapes and forms he CAN take are lies and false.
Ivy had her inability to empathize with human beings, and had some elements of generalized object-fixation, especially in regards to her rose.
Two-Face became the most legitimately mentally ill villain in Batman's gallery (displaying dissassociative identity disorders and extreme object-fixation) after formerly being a weirdo obsessing with a number and having a fucked-up face.
Mad Hatter displayed fixation and idolation issues with his overfocus on "his Alice".

Amusingly, the one villain that was supposedly the craziest of Batman's rogues, The Joker, merely came off as an asshole with a clown gag fetish. Though honestly he usually doesn't come off as particularly crazy, just sadistic and possessed of a lousy sense of humor.

She was designed to be "pixie-like".
Look at her face; they deliberately designed her to visually envoke a sort of cherubic seductive innocence, akin to a mythological Greek nymph, which would then contrast with how cruel she acted.

Her goal of killing all humans and replacing them with plants? Legally?

>Legally?
What did he mean by this?

Out-compete humans in the global market place and they will go extinct.