Let's talk seriously. What's going to happen with Marvel post Secret Empire?
We've heard from retailers all over that Secret Empire got totally blown out by the Batman/Flash crossover and that sales are on the softer side of a Marvel event. Both Comixology and the BC Bestseller List both showed that a basic issue of Superman topped it as well. Fans are outraged, but it's not translating to sales at all and I've seen multiple retailers comment that customers are telling them to not pull any tie-ins.
The internet was again outraged this weekend at spoilers for the FCBD issue that will hit in a couple of weeks, so it's unlikely that any real uptick in sales is going to occur. Alex DeCampi speculated weeks ago that Marvel is just letting Spencer do whatever in the event and say whatever in social media because they're planning on making him the fall guy and stabbing him in the back at the end of the event so they can turn the page.
But even if they put the blame on Spencer in an effort to get in the right with the fans, I'm unsure it'll work. Legacy is rightly getting hammered as nothing more than an insincere Rebirth ripoff. And as we've seen from the past several years, Marvel doesn't really have the talent development system or scouting process to really bring in good new talent. At best they're going to grab whatever DC washout passes by as usual, maybe some more webcomic or tumblr "talent" and just load up their biggest names on multiple titles. So nothing really changes.
So tell me Sup Forums, what's Marvel's future a few months from now?
It'll be a millstone Spencer will be wearing for his entire career as-the-cap-nazi-writer like Bru was the brought-bucky-back-as-the-winter-soldier guy.
Grayson Collins
Nothing.
Marvel put Secret Empire on loot crate boxes. It already has big numbers because of this gimmick. It is a success already.
Gabriel Green
>Backstabbing Spencer.
>Not Bendis or Slott
All is wrong in the world.
Hunter Mitchell
>At best they're going to grab whatever DC washout passes by as usual, maybe some more webcomic or tumblr "talent" and just load up their biggest names on multiple titles
Actually this is kind of DC's fault. One of the incompetents that DC let go in one of its editorial purges landed back at Marvel now in charge of talent recruiting. I half suspect he has been responsible for the subpar talent given he has been fucking shit up for his entire career first at Wizard then at DC and now at Marvel.
Ayden Foster
the #0 is a success because of Loot Crate, but if it's not selling in stores, numbers will drop considerably as the series progresses
Angel Gomez
Yeah, but Marvel will announce that it was a success because of Loot Crate. They did the same with Rocket Raccoon.
The reputation is better than the real success. Remember Rocket Raccoon selling 400.000 because of Loot Crate? Or Champions?
Jack Lopez
>We've heard from retailers all over
The reaction seems to be mixed. At some stores it's selling all right and others it's not. It does sound like more people might be interested in The Button though.
Secret Empire #0 might also top the charts probably because it got included in the GOTG Funko subscription box this month, so that might skew things but I wonder if it'll last.
Brevoort is also probably under pressure to see this through as not only was he the one who edited Spencer's Cap, Bendis' Civil War II, and now Secret Empire, he's also the one who said that angry fans boost sales. What happens if this underperforms?
Isaac Walker
It wasn't Loot Crate, it's Funko's Marvel Collector Corps. Unless they actually did have a Loot Crate variant that I haven't heard of.
you can't count the zero issue against the event. it sold great, and most people don't even view zero issues as parts of the book.
plus we're still getting the FCBD Secret Empire primer.
there are a lot of comic book readers who don't view either of those two things as part of the event, just as something to get those not reading the lead-in books caught up.
Eli Price
That's all Marvel is good at, big temporary boosts at the beginning then the numbers tank. Retailers are probably going to order even less of Legacy and Generations because Marvel just isn't selling for them.
Levi Cruz
>outrage Huh? Bout what? I haven't been paying attention.
Joseph Ortiz
>Alex DeCampi speculated weeks ago that Marvel is just letting Spencer do whatever in the event and say whatever in social media because they're planning on making him the fall guy and stabbing him in the back at the end of the event so they can turn the page. Hilarious and awesome as that would be, it sounds more like Marvel is letting Spencer do whatever he wants because they know they are relaunching/rebranding after the event. So until Legacy """supposedly""" makes SE less relevant by going back to basics, Spencer can do whatever he wants and not worry about sales or such.
Carson Thomas
>Making Captain America a Nazi was a mistake.
That reads like something from 'The Onion'.
Asher Adams
Marvel will probably have to make some market changes along with ripping off Rebirth. Maybe they go down in price or change their model for how they sell. This stumble could start making the case for digest versions of their comics again or a bigger digital push. Maybe Marvel is the first to try the Shonen Jump model for selling underperforming books.
Whatever ends up happening with Secret Empire, I just hope it doesn't hurt Daniel Acuña's career. That guy is legitimately talented and I would hate to see his affiliation with a stinker event stick him permanently in the B-tier.
Brayden Johnson
I think these kind of antiquated crossover events are going away.
The whole "someone has a sort of novel gimmick, let's make a seven issue mini and make every series have a tie-in" thing where they bank on people just buying it because it's an event.
I mean, even with the relatively lower sales of Civil War II and Secret Empire, they're still selling pretty well. So they're not going away like right now.
It's almost like someone at Marvel knows the market is trending toward TPB sales, and that's why we get the diversicomics, but then someone else there just doesn't get it, and that's why we have events fucking with the sales of TPB-geared comics and TPBs in general being "premium priced".
People who buy Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl don't give a shit about crossovers. All that tie-in becomes is a shitty issue in the trade that people skip because they don't know what the fuck is happening.
That really just seems like the theme at Marvel: some people wanna go in a new direction while some want to do the same-old direction. Whereas DC is like a unified front.
Nathaniel Evans
Spencer's HydraCap has had "we're doing whatever the fuck we want because it's all gonna be reset in the end anyway" written all over it since the start.
Kevin Nguyen
>Maybe they go down in price or change their model for how they sell. They're just not going to do that. Someone at Marvel is convinced that their shit has to be premium priced, and someone like that is not going to ever change their mind or be booted from power.
Marvel just has too much corporate horseshit going on and that's what's making things such a mess. The New 52 early on had the same problem, with the whole thing being corporate orchestrated.
Their best move would be to just promote all the corporate retards into movies and TV and let them ruin those instead.
Noah Moore
And the fucking insane thing is all these people having meltdowns on Twitter and review sites somehow don't get that despite it being par for the course for comics for decades now.
Like, it's been a meme in normiespace for years and years now that comics always return to the status quo and nothing ever changes. Remember when Cap died and people reacted like "he'll be back in a year just like Superman"? How did everyone suddenly forget that?
Andrew Evans
>Their best move would be to just promote all the corporate retards into movies and TV and let them ruin those instead. too bad that can't happen anymore since Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment are now two wholly separate entities
Lincoln Mitchell
This
Cooper Nguyen
I think Marvel has learned not to do multiple big crossover events that literally affects every book too soon to each other. Secret Wars and Civil War 2 happened way too close to each other. Monsters Unleashed should have happened first since it's a smaller event that doesn't affect all books.
We'll still get events for characters like Venomverse and etc.
But Marvel will probably be more careful about how the bigger events are planned out.
Jason Baker
They're shills, you daft cunt.
Kevin Sanchez
Not surprised this isn't doing well. It's so beyond what people want from Marvel right now. No one wants tie in books when the last big one was ass. There's no legacy characters worth standing by. The good writers shit isn't selling. The diversity shit is selling in some instances but marvel books are ranging 45ks-30ks for their big books that aren't spiderman. Meanwhile, DC books are sitting in the 60ks-50ks for their top books. It's over for Marvel. Idk what they can do now. It's not like they're done with comics but honestly, they've killed so much good faith, a reboot might be necessary.
Austin Baker
> like Bru was the brought-bucky-back-as-the-winter-soldier guy.
But that's not a "millstone". Brubaker's Bucky return was widely hailed as excellent and has stuck around since he did it. It's a badge of honor for him, not a regret.
Wyatt Wilson
>Alex DeCampi speculated weeks ago that Marvel is just letting Spencer do whatever in the event and say whatever in social media because they're planning on making him the fall guy and stabbing him in the back at the end of the event so they can turn the page.
You really believe that Marvel would intentionally let their entire company be fucked just to get at Spencer? Fan delusion at its worst.
Dylan Young
With how Marvel is, I would at least not be surprised, and so that it is plausible speaks volumes to how ill regarded and incompetent it currently is.
Jeremiah Clark
Isn't that the plot of The Hudsucker Proxy
Joseph Kelly
>It's almost like someone at Marvel knows the market is trending toward TPB sales
doesn't matter to Marvel, for whatever reason they can't compete in the bookstores against DC, Image and Dark Horse. Some of the "diversicomics" like Ms Marvel and Squirrel Girl do well enough but their general stock doesn't move much for Amazon/B&N
Andrew Allen
Is Kobik going to "No more nazis" it all away?
Easton Barnes
>Marvel is just letting Spencer do whatever in the event and say whatever in social media because they're planning on making him the fall guy and stabbing him in the back at the end of the event so they can turn the page. >But even if they put the blame on Spencer in an effort to get in the right with the fans, I'm unsure it'll work. But why would they let Spencer do whatever he wants if they think/know it'll piss off fans? It doesn't matter if they try to push the blame onto Spencer, they're still at fault for letting him write this story.
Gavin Russell
she's going to rewrite Steve's reality so he's himself again but remembers what he did, but everyone else is going to remember too, and he'll have to go on the run, probably as Nomad, to redeem himself and his name
Owen Hall
you're giving Marvel way too much credit for making good decisions
Alexander Lee
There's making bad decisions and then there's knowingly let someone destroy your company on purpose. Fan delusion aside, the simplest answer is that they actually thought this was a good idea.
Charles Allen
Maybe, but they doesn't negate the fact that it doesn't matter how much blame they put on Spencer, they were the ones who ultimately let this happen. At any point Spencer's editor and/or Alonso could've phoned Nicky and been all "Yeah, nah." but they didn't.
Charles Murphy
>if they think/know it'll piss off fans
Marvel is being run by idiots. Tom Brevoort thinks that is a good thing and that it'll lead to higher sales.
Christopher Carter
...
Tyler Young
Is Sup Forums enjoying Secret Empire? I enjoyed Cap's keikaku.
Colton Sanders
I like it but it's a part of the problem with marvel so I get why people are against it.
Joseph Watson
Who even buys comic books at stores anymore
Isaiah Richardson
I buy trades at my LCS
James Turner
She said "it's insurance." If Secret Empire sells well because of the controversy, then it'll just benefit Disney and Marvel and they won't do much other than some strict mandates for future stuff. If Secret Empire flops, the the higher-ups are given an excuse to sack Spencer and others and use them as metaphorical sacrificial lambs.
Henry Kelly
Ike's influence have made it very difficult for them to make solid gains in the TPB market not to mention the lack of a solid back catalog in comparison to DC.
Connor Stewart
I see fewer angry fans in its future... because they stopped buying Marvel Comics.
Gabriel Clark
Nazi-cap picks up Mjolnir
Juan Moore
Why should I even care? Marvel's made it clear that who can pick that thing up is arbitrary.
Michael Rivera
Marvel feels a lot like late-90's WCW to me right now. It's a complete clusterfuck, with no clear, level-headed management decisions. No one is on the same page, it's a total mess, but because they have their cash cow (The MCU/Ted Turner) it's all good and nothing has to change that much.
At least over at DC, they're all on the same page, for better or worse. Editorial is doing a good job of ensuring some degree of consistency and coherence.
Tyler Bennett
But cap can always pick up mjolnir, he was changed to Hydra but he's still the same man.
Caleb Price
no he's not, he's unequivocally a villain now
Mason Parker
/thread
Adrian Rodriguez
Are Nazis worthy of Mjonir?
Bentley Gutierrez
Apparently.
Leo Russell
Asgardians are more or less Nazis so
Kayden Smith
But, Thor-prime is still not worthy?
Landon Thomas
he probably is but he hasn't tried in a while
Leo Hernandez
He should try putting on some lederhosen.
Henry Lopez
It was still a mistake. Nothing good has been done with Bucky since, AND it cost us Nomad in the deal.
We wouldn't have Cap/Bucky shippers if Bucky had fucking stayed dead.
Juan Lopez
>implying Steve isn't going to be Nomad after Secret Empire
Evan Brown
I chuckled. It really does.
Kayden Martin
He's talking about a specific character, one that Bucky during Bru's Winter Soldier arc killed.
Bru had this nasty streak of killing off random Captain America supporting characters. I vaguely remember him killing off D-Man, too, near the end of his run.
Eli Wilson
I thought Bendis killed D-man
Logan Sanders
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. SPACESHIPS ARE IN THE SKY ALL OVER THE WORLD. NO PEEPEE FOR YOU. ANY OF YOU.
OH NO FREE THINGS. MONAY.
Robert Jackson
WEBCOMIC AND TUMBLR TALENT HUH.
I NOMINATE ANDREW HUSSIE.
Leo Brooks
reminder not to respond to the tripfag, friends
Robert Barnes
SORRY I WAITED THIS TIME. FRIEND IS A TERM FOR A FRIEND, NOT BUDDY OR GUY.
Deathmonger or Diablo, from Diablo 3?
Jason Ramirez
Bendis probably killed D-man as well somewhere else. People seemed to love taking the piss on the character up until recently.
I looked it up. What I'm remembering is Captain America Vol. 6, #14, which was near the end of Bru's run. D-Man got brainwashed into becoming the new Scourge, and when Steve was trying to reach out to him and help him pull through the brainwashing, Sharon arrived and abruptly shot him in the head. Then D-Man's brainwashing wore off as he died.
That was the only time Bru ever wrote D-man during his run, I think.
Hudson Thompson
ARE YOU READY. ARE YOU READY. ARE YOU READY.
Jordan Stewart
Basically Marvel Rebirth, and an end to the marketing driven constant events.
I like to think of it as the end of the Bendis era. They should have done it after Secret Wars, but I guess Brian wanted to get his CW2 in.
Nathaniel Hernandez
Yeah, man, it's solid. Not a masterpiece or anything, but gripping in a way a lot of comics aren't. It has scope and it has a hook and it has balls.
It's amazing really. You've got libtards on one side, and the stereotypical "privileged, white, male" comic-book buyers, usually natural enemies, and they have teamed up, for one controversy only, to get outraged at Hydra-Cap. And Marvel is just ploughing onwards anyway. I love it. I hope not a fucking word of Spencer's script gets altered as a result of this shitstorm.
Me, I'm just doing the only healthy thing to do when crowds children and have temper tantrums online -- fucking ignoring it. And enjoying a quality comic book every now and again, regardless.
Michael Sanchez
I say a brave soldier is a brave soldier, no matter the side of the conflict.
Luke Adams
>Selling trash in trash boxes
Carson Torres
>Steve >brave >throws Jack Flag out of a plane >then goes to kill him as he lies in a hospital in a coma >only to be saved by narrative contrivane
People who want the books they like to stick around
Aiden Hall
Why would a man not just shoot a man before throwing him from a plane and killing him while in a coma?
Was Steve working for the CIA?
Oliver Lopez
It depends on the Nazi. They have the same chance of qualifying as anyone else. Of course, that's irrelevant since Steve isn't a Nazi, something (You) already knew.
Brayden Gray
Sup Forums is a cancer
Brayden Nguyen
He's having an existential crisis right now. You're not worthy of a world-breaking weapon if you don't even believe in your cause, much less yourself.
Asher Moore
Stucky shippers exist only due to the movie. You think those people actually read comics?
Nolan Foster
to be fair, Winter Soldier would never have been made a movie if Brubaker hadn't written the story in the first place.
Daniel Edwards
Maybe that's why Patriot and the Bradleys haven't been in anything in forever. Bucky got 'em.
Jose Rivera
Fuck you, Nick Spencer
Xavier Adams
Relax, just take the joke and have a laugh. Or take it as an opportunity to discuss relevant stuff, either works! People need to start rolling with the punches instead of being stiffs
Makes sense, my understanding is that Captain Hydra was still edited to be the best man he could be from the perspective of a bratty kid. So, his intentions and convictions are probably about as pure as they could be.
Matthew James
Takes bigger balls than you've got to attempt to eliminate an ally not once but twice. If anything, that makes him more worthy.
Luis Russell
to do it in cold blood when he's first unaware then in a coma is cowardly, not worthy at all
Jayden Moore
>Marvel stabs Spencer in the back >he can't work at DC either because of all the shit he was talking on twitter Where will he go?
William Lee
...
Jason Kelly
Basically winging it solo on indies.
Michael Evans
I'd say that one small unworthy act doesn't outweigh all the other stuff he's done that makes him worthy.
Anthony Cook
then again, marvel literally said that fucked up stories that upset the readers are good for business, so...
Jacob Wood
Do more Image stuff. He's done at least two series with them, so there's gotta be some goodwill there.
Blake Cook
yeah, like lie and betray allies constantly, so worthy
Angel King
back to writing morning glories
Jaxon Lewis
Tru, marvel has been doing nothing but doubling down on that shit for a while.
Jose Baker
...
Anthony Edwards
Bucky's run as Cap was a much better read than Sam and Steve's, tho.
Jack King
Aaaaaand the feels train has started
Robert Allen
I'd love to see him tackle something like the Champions just for the train wreck it'd be.
Dylan Hill
wtf I love Nick Spencer now
Charles Sanders
Yeah come on, the Hammer is a neo nazi icon. And Nazis were into the norse gods. The real reveal is gonna be Odin was the founder of Hydra.