"That's not what a Jedi does. I mean, a Jedi is optimistic, a Jedi has tenacity, he doesn't give up, he doesn't secret himself on an island." - Mark Hamill
youtube.com
Except Kenobi and Yoda both do this in the original trilogy. Seriously, I don't get why people are so shocked that Luke wound up a hermit like both his mentors. It's not even a subversion of expectations. It's just history repeating itself, which is one of the major themes of these "new" movies.
Both Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't give up, they were both laying low until Luke was old enough.
Luke himself though has utterly surrendered and is waiting for death
hamill seems to have an optimistic take on luke and the jedis.
The Jedi's have been explored and to be revealed to flawed but he might be right about Luke. He was an optimistic guy although I could see the collapse of his Jedi order might break him.
What you're overlooking is they weren't in seclusion. They were in hiding from an oppressive Sith regime that would gleefully continue to play Jedi wack-a-mole.
This
Obi Wan was watching over Luke
I remember Obi and Yoda training Luke and helping destroy the empire maybe your DVD miss that part you fucking retarded mongoloid shill
this is a pretty weak argument unless you turn off your brain
>they were both laying low until Luke was old enough.
"He is too old. Yes. Too old to begin the training." - Yoda
Kenobi and Yoda had both given up. Kenobi was just watching Luke and helping him keep out of trouble. When Luke comes to him with a message from Leia, Kenobi realized he and Luke couldn't stay out of the conflict forever, that it was destiny. Yoda, as already mentioned, was entirely uninterested in training Luke at first.
And I remember Luke training Rey and helping the Resistance against the First Order.
Speaking of ansolute shit developments in this franchise, that whole "light rises to balance the dark" bullshit really pissed me off.
I was no huge fan of midiclorians, but the fact remains that they never said conclusively(in the movies at least) that they specifically were a set, immutable thing. In other words, it was left open-ended whether your count increased as you trained and strengthened your connection to the Force.
In nu-canon, the Force itself just picks a "Chosen One" to balance things out. That's dumb as hell. Where's the work ethic? The dedication? What if you're a shitty Chosen One who doesn't even want to leave home?
Like Rey?
Yoda was only testing him thats why he acted retarded moments before
after he left to die on an island while Obi stayed close to look waiting for him to grow up
Point remains, if there whole plan was to use Luke from the start, they'd have started training him from day one, since Jedi start their training as young as possible (reminder: Anakin was "too old" in TPM despite being younger than Luke was in TESB). Kenobi wouldn't have given him to Beru and Lars.
They didn't do this because they had no plan. Kenobi and Yoda just gave up until a new hope came along, sort of like how Luke gave up until Rey came along.
Yoda and Obi-Wan chose to live to fight another day. nu-Luke chose to stop fighting altogether.
>give up and die alone on a desert looking after your friend's kid because you're kind of the reason he's an orphan
>give up and die alone on an island, no friend's kid because you orphaned no one
>Yoda and Obi-Wan chose to live to fight another day.
Which is why they started training Luke when he was a baby oh wait no they were just waiting for death.
thats just Lucas retardation with the jedi kinder garden, fuck him
You can't ignore facts about the story just because you don't like them.
poor shill grasping at straws ALSO lets not forget Luke doesnt give a fuck about her sister either or the new evil force user trying to destroy the rebels
But then how could I possibly enjoy the Last Jedi?
yes I can fuck him and fuck you
>kenobi and yoda both turn there backs as everything burns
>"what great characters"
>luke does same
>"i can't believe this is happening"
>"if i shut my eyes and plug my ears i can pretend i'm right!"
Ha!
At least Ben and Yoda didn't try to MURDER SOMEONE IN THEIR SLEEP.
>Except Kenobi and Yoda both do this in the original trilogy.
They were being hunted down by the Empire, shill. More importantly, they were waiting for the right moment to unleash Luke upon Vader and the Emperor.
>And I remember Luke training Rey
I don't. Was this in some deleted scene?
>And I remember Luke training Rey
Was this an after credits scene? I just remember Rey beating up Luke and stealing his books and lightsaber and fucking off.
The difference is, Ben and Yoda we're hilariously outmatched against the empire. Luke isn't, he should be the strongest living force user, whose sister is the leader of a large military force. This is ignoring all the contrived bullshit and shitty writing that made them the underdogs again for no reason
>aunt, uncle and home destroyed
>chipper in next scene
What happened to his resilience?
Patience is a jedi virtue.
Patience....
>be chipper as a young man
>be bitter as an old man
Whoa.
Nah, Kenobi just left his best friend who was like a brother to him to die a horribly painful death in a pool of lava.
Yoda cool though.
He gives her lessons. He straight up announces he's giving her lessons right before he does. Watch the movie next time.
>"give up when things seem difficult"
Legit Jedi wisdom there.
That sounds more like only Yoda had given up. Kenobi always believed, he even told Maul that much.
>Obi Wan and Yoda are two of the only Jedi left after a massacre of every other Jedi in the galaxy
>Obi Wan stays on Tattooine to watch over Luke
When did Luke train rey?
Hence why Kenobi was training Luke in secret all those years on Tatooine. Oh, wait, no, he just kind of gave up.
>When did Luke train rey?
Scene where he has her meditate and reach out and tells her what the Force and Jedi are.
>in TPM
See now there’s your problem
>"those movies don't count 'cus I said so"
Even without the prequels, Yoda specifically says Luke is too old in the original trilogy, which is contrary to the idea that he was waiting for him to be old enough, which is why the user that said that was wrong.
Honestly I don't think it's explicitly established that either one of them intended from the beginning to train Luke and the fact they waited so long, and Yoda's reaction to Luke's age, suggests it was not. Pretty sure the idea that it was their plan all along is something that crept in with the old EU
>Close your eyes and take deep breaths
>Oh wow I can lift rocks now thx sensei
Obi Wan and Yoda hid, Luke fled. There's the difference
>what if you're a shitty chosen one
You mean like anakin and you use your power to kill kids? idk guess the force just doesn't care very much what the "chosen ones" do long as they eventually get around to balancing things.
Neither of them ever planned to train Luke. If they had planned to train Luke, they'd have started when he was a baby. They had no plan other than to die as hermits, sorta like Luke in TLJ.
Yes, that's the extent of what Yoda taught Luke. Also the extent of what Luke taught Rey. Almost like they both had limited training because they both ran off before their training was complete.
Luke hid on an island.
I was under the impression that Midichlorians were just attracted to force sensitive organisms and places. As in, they don't give you force ability, they just live on/in you if you already attract it.
This is where you see the sjw and political undertones of these propaganda movies.
"Nature knows best" is the message to take away from this. Humans are all evil or conflicted in some way and as long as you get to release a space horse into the fields "everything was worth it". The undertone of this movie is that you are evil and can never be a true hero (unless you're a minority or a woman). Hope your kids enjoy it!
I thought this, too. Apparently, that's wrong.
>The Force spoke through the midi-chlorians, allowing certain beings to use the Force if they were sensitive enough to its powers.
Wookieepedia.
>"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."
Qui-Gon Jinn
The moment Luke begins training with Yoda Vader senses it. Training at a young age would have just attracted Vader to them.
You think I fucking remember what Yoda did in the old movies? They were also mediocre movies but at least they had good special effects for their time.
If what you say is correct and all Yoda did was tell Luke to close his eyes and take a deep breath then the old movies are just as bad when it comes to character development and my point still stands.
Wow that's fucking retarded. I thought it was just a little blood test to roughly estimate someone's force sensitivity, but, no. It's just as full retard as everyone seemed to think.
so I guess... NOT MUH LUKE fags destroyed?
Incorrect. The scene where Palpatine and Vader feel "a great disturbance in the Force" happens before Luke begins his training with Yoda. In fact, it happens before Luke knows who Yoda is (right before the dinner scene). They also didn't feel anything when Kenobi started training Luke on the Millennium Falcon.
Yep. There's a droid in one of the comics who wanted to try injecting himself with midi-chlorians from people's blood to become a droid Force-user. Sadly, he doesn't get to try this. Bonus, he's an evil C-3PO.
wow it's like did these butthurt "fans" ever even watch star wars? they just keep getting BTFO in this thread
Yoda was too strong in the Force to wander around the galaxy and Obi-Wan had PTSD/Uncle Owen kept telling him to fuck off.
Luke spent months on Dagobah though
>Luke spent months on Dagobah though
According to fan theories, Luke was on Dagobah for anywhere from months to a few days. He may have even been there for less time than Rey. Regardless, he receives pretty much the same on-screen training as Rey, including going into a "dark side cave." If anything, Rey learns a bit more about the Jedi than Luke did. And in the end, both leave before their training is complete.
>Except Kenobi and Yoda both do this in the original trilogy.
Kenobi who dedicated his life to watching over A New Hope in the form of Luke Skywalker so he could one take take up his father's lightsaber and begin Jedi training? That Obi Wan Kenobi?
The Kenobi who never bothered to train Luke even though he should have started when Luke was a baby because he had no plans to train Luke (who can blame him, though, when the last Skywalker he trained sort of killed everybody, even the younglings), and only started training Luke because the Force made it clear that he was destined to do so. The Kenobi who was happy to die some hermit in the sand, alone and forgotten. The Kenobi who gave up. That Kenobi.
Yeah, it's pretty clear they don't watch these movies given some of the responses I've had to deal with.
1. Stop dealing with fictional characters like they're existing, what matters is the intent of the writers through their behaviors.
2. To be honest I've just realised you were right an I was wrong. Still in Empire it is implied Luke learns from Yoda while in this movie Luke acts more like a catalyst to Rey's immense power (as much as it makes no sense for her to be this powerful).
op has willful ignorance. most of the shit on here that is pro TLJ you can tell the last time they watched the OT was 10 years ago.
Luke does learn from Yoda, the same way that Rey learns from Luke. Never said he didn't. Luke teaches Rey things about the Force the same way Yoda taught Luke things about the Force. Neither Luke nor Rey got a complete training.
No, willful ignorance is ignoring how Yoda and Kenobi both gave up, and then complaining when Luke gives up.
But Rey's a lot more powerful than Luke at the same point if their training. My pont was that Luke doesn't teach Rey the same way he was taught, but I guess it's just a case of rey's writing being abysmal.
No, don't you see, that's all Kenobi's master plan!
1) Never train Luke. Never prepare him at all.
2) In fact, give him to people who will want him to stay out of conflicts and will teach him to live on sand world for the rest of his life.
3) Wait until a bunch of wild coincidences occur where he's forced to leave his family (that you could have just not given him to) and join you (even though you could have just raised him yourself).
4) Only give him the briefest training possible before going against the Empire.
5) Die and pass along your "student" (who you "taught" for all of a minute) to a puppet in a swamp.
What a great plan. Puts the whole Han Rescue Plan to shame.
Luke teaches her pretty much the same way he's taught, though. Luke was just taught meditation stuff by Yoda. Rey was just taught meditation stuff by Luke.
But they didn't gave up though, they chose to live to fight another day. Obi-Wan start teaching Luke as soon as possible in Star Wars. Luke literally wants to die and shuts himself from the Force. Then again we're arguing over this like it's something else than bad writing.
But that's not an argument, they're different characters.
Luke never gave up, not even once, and his situation in the new trilogy is not near as desperate.
So Luke watched the bad things the Jedi did and then did the same exact thing? Get the fuck out of here
lol I can't wait for the stand alone Kenobi film that shows he didn't know wtf he was doing and then they can do the same with Yoda. Pablo needs to start tweeting this stuff to BTFO fans on twitter more like he did to the "but Luke left a map!" fags. TFA specifically establishes he did not leave it.
He tells her what the Force is... and that's it. Some lesson.
They had the threat of Empire hit squads and Vader himself showing up. What was Luke hiding from?
>as soon as possible
as soon as a coincidence allowed him to you mean. Luke hardly knows him in the first star wars. user have you not read this thread it's well established that training Luke was not Obi/Yoda's plan. Yoda doesn't even want to train him cause he's too old.
Except they gave up. It wasn't until Luke came along with R2 that Kenobi decided to join the fight again, and it isn't until Force Ghost Kenobi shows up that Yoda is willing to train Luke.
Hell, Kenobi only decides to teach Luke "the ways of the Force" only after watching the R2's message and realizing he can't stay out of the fight forever. And then, years later, Luke decides to train Rey after watching the exact same message. Pottery.
Correct, they're different characters who wind up going down the exact same paths, partly because Yoda and Kenobi were mentors for Luke.
Hey, it's almost like Mark Hamill isn't the authority on the actions of jedi.
t. brainlet
The Emperor sensed Luke as soon as he started training with Yoda. If he caught wind of Luke when he was a just a boy it would have been over the moment Vader arrived. They needed him to be old enough to face them.
Stop sperging over this saga. It's all crap
After Lucas he pretty much is. Rian Johnson and Disney are just making shit up.
>The Emperor sensed Luke as soon as he started training with Yoda
Watch the movie again. The scene where Vader and the Emperor talk about "a disturbance in the Force" happens before Yoda starts training Luke. You are wrong.
Yoda and Obi Wan went into hiding with a purpose.
They were not only desperately avoiding the Empire's purge on Jedi, but Obi Wan was using his proximity to the Lars family so that he could keep an eye on and train Luke.
Every one of these Star Wars TLJ apologists is quick to jump to some parallel flaw that they think they see in the OT, and every time the apologists end up shooting themselves in the foot with another missed connection.
>54%
Well, people are retarded, and clearly they didn't pay attention to the old films.
Most people here "watched" them while browsing the internet and shit posting at the same time.
Yep, which is why people need to stop treating him like he knows what he's talking about when he bitches about how Luke is in TLJ.
>Rian Johnson and Disney are just making shit up.
I hate to break it to you, but all this shit isn't real. Lucas was also just making shit up. Same with Hamill.
The First Order, who were looking for him. Did you forget the entire last movie where the whole point was Kylo Ren and Snoke were trying to find Luke so they could kill him? I mean, the Empire wasn't even actively really looking for either Kenobi or Yoda. There wasn't a manhunt for either of them in A New Hope like there was for Luke in The Force Awakens.
Christ almighty, you'd probably complain less about these movies if you all actually fucking watched them and paid attention.
There's also the reality that Luke was supposed to rise above the Jedi and Sith in the end of RotJ. He rejects the dark side as well as the ghosts of Ben and Yoda who both tell him to kill his father and he refuses all of them. Mark Hamill is overly optimistic about the Jedi because that's where we left off with Luke. He was the embodiment of an optimistic future, one born of conquering both the light and dark of his past.
This is all just making me realise star wars has always been shit
>"Yoda tells Luke to stay away from the Dark Side... and that's it. Some lesson."
I can play dumb, too.
>Except Kenobi and Yoda both do this in the original trilogy.
And that's exactly why I didn't find it smart or especially subversive that Luke ended up doing the same thing.
Hamill played a dispirited Luke pretty well (even with that shitty dialogue and humor) but the set up and context are pretty underwhelming and a little baffling in ways that Yoda's and Obi-Wan's seclusion wasn't.
>Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough.
suggests otherwise. Of course the prequels weren't consistent on this front.
That what Luke did. At the beginning he don't want do shit but then teach Rey about the force and then help the resistance.
I wouldn't say he outright rejects Kenobi or Yoda, he was just perceptive enough to realize they were wrong.
Yoda and Obi-Wan were wrong about Vader, and I was looking forward to seeing Luke make mistakes as well. I don't find what we got terribly interesting or as fresh as some writers are trying to suggest though.
Snoke wanted to kill Luke, but Luke wasn't hiding from the First Order. Luke was taking a long vacation because of his shame. Luke could have come out of hiding at any time to deal with Kylo and Snoke, but he didn't, which is why the First Order spread and the Resistance was crushed.
Its all explained in Nu Wars. Its explained poorly, but it is explained.
>suggests otherwise
Except Jedi start their training at a young age, and when they don't, they wind up like Anakin Skywalker. Kenobi had every opportunity to train Luke at any time. He could have even kept Luke and raised him to be a Jedi if his plan was to make Luke a Jedi.
That wasn't his plan at all. Kenobi gives Luke his father's lightsaber because he feels sorry for Luke for not being able to have a father, something that's his fault (not just because he fought Anakin and left him to die, but because his training led Anakin to the Dark Side). He wants Luke to know that his father was a good guy (which he was at one point) and thus gives the lightsaber to Luke as a memento. It isn't until R2 gives his message and makes it clear that they're destined to go on an adventure together that Kenobi proposes to teach Luke the ways of the Force.
>I can play dumb, too.
You ain't playing.
You could say the same of Kenobi and Yoda. They weren't just hiding from the Empire, they were also hiding from their shame of having failed so deeply that their failings caused the complete destruction of the Jedi Order. Both of them could have come out of hiding at any time and dealt with Vader and the Emperor, but they didn't, which is why the Empire spread and the Republic was crushed.
that was the case when Star Wars was just one self-contained movie. it was retconned long ago.