Are critics wrong or are audiences wrong?

Are critics wrong or are audiences wrong?

Other urls found in this thread:

theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/19/george-lucas-star-wars-criticism-jj-abrams-disney-jar-jar-binks
variety.com/2017/film/columns/star-wars-the-last-jedi-four-reasons-why-its-not-one-for-the-ages-1202643241/
sandiegoreader.com/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi/
variety.com/2017/film/reviews/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review-rian-johnson-1202635597/
cnn.com/2017/12/12/entertainment/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review/index.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

critics are paid for good reviews

How did you feel about Batman V Superman?

they are all wrong for having seen that pile

Which group is easier to bribe?
Which group feels more compelled to adhere to safe opinions because their livelihood depends on it?

I honestly have up on reviews and the opinions of others when it comes to movies a few years ago. I have my own tastes that rarely align with any sort of critic. I know I fucking hated this and that's what matters to me.

It's a competently shot turn your brain off action movie. That is the scale the critics are judging it on.

Fans are expecting a competent movie, but also judging it on how it works as a star wars film, how it fits and expands on existing lore etc. Different criteria, different conclusion.

>another cookie cutter, zero risk sequel
>does "just okay"
color me fucking shocked

>zero risk
TLJ gambled on several risks and fucked up on every one of them.

And the Cannon Group did much better versions of those. Last Jedi is filled with too many boring scenes of "exposition".

go on

>normalfags don't understand why it's bad and just appreciate the pewpew noises and explosions
>Star Wars fans are disgusted by it
>critics are all bribed or coerced to leave positive reviews

Really activates my almonds

Which group is the plebeian masses with troglodytish tastes the original films we're targeted to?

shh, he'll hear you

It's not even that. It's shit.

Which group will be disinvited to future premiers and not given screeners if they release an opinion too early?
Which group will be denied interviews and insider information if they give the wrong opinion?

They took risks that pissed off the fans who loved TFA for its milking of nostalgia, but these risks did not pan out into an interesting movie.
Its a shit movie that would have been received as well as TFA if it had tried to appease fans because they can't take off their ESB nostalgia goggles.
I could care less that luke turned into a childkilling hermit if they created an interesting story instead of Mary Sue vs Wannabe Vader that the movie ended as.

So Sup Forums, was getting caught part of your plan?

oh no no no no no.....

Critics are wrong

Why couldn't Rey just join Kylo? She's not beholden to the Jedi, Luke, Yoda, Anakin, etc. Luke has his father's previously righteous legacy to uphold "I am a Jedi Knight like my Father before me" while Rey is a nobody with no allegiances. Is it all because she touched the fucking lightsaber and got weird force visions?

I don't care how cliche it is, but a dark or morally grey Rey would have been a risk that paid off for me.

most normalfags seem annoyed also

This is awesome. Our review bombing has permanently damaged the reputation of RT, to the point where they’re being forced to publish damage control articles.

>Are critics wrong or are audiences wrong?

>Are people who could have their careers, lives and future opportunities utterly ruined by this trillion dollar mega-corporation - that after Fox will control 40 percent of all Western media - to be trusted to be honest to say a product they make are good, or should we trust the actual people consuming that product who don't have to fear repercussions? (yet)

It's a real tough one familo.

The problem is that the "risks" were only in the sense that they could(did) turn off classic fans. From a standard filmmaking perspective it was incredibly safe. Basically just another Marvel movie with a Star Wars paint job.

critics aren't fans of series and franchises. For them a sci-fi/fantasy film just has to click certain required boxes and they are satisfied before they go off to watch more serious Oscar-bait movies.

Will when Sup Forums is using boots to push the score down....

Shouldn't it be "Are the critics wrong, but the bots are right?"

>I could care less that luke turned into a childkilling hermit
Why they even have him to shit on the character
and do a 180 like that?
>Mary Sue vs Wannabe Vader
The mary sue part is the one that really killed the new franchise for me. It's a fanfic level of writting.

t. Rick and Morty

"action movie"
no

but you can't have all of the little girls disney is brainwashing idolizing morally grey Rey

She has to be a strung wymyn and a lead model.

How was my post in any way Reddit?

That would have been ok but even better imo would have been a naive Rey who think she can do more good on Kylo's side and maybe nudge him towards the light.

Like all those females who think they can "fix" the bad boy.

I'm a big fan of turn-your-brain-off action films and have never been a Star Wars fan. I still thought it was a poor film and not very entertaining. The casino subplot was pointless and boring and that the Jedi no longer even need any training was so disappointing. Not to mention we didn't have much of a climactic finale because few of the characters were developed enough for us to care and the only character who has had development over previous films died not heroically, but simply by projecting too hard. It was just not good.

star wars fans just want to keep seeing the same shit time and time again
the last jedi may have been not great, but there were elements that at least were somewhat of a risk, or trying something new.
That's why star wars fans hated it

Actually it took the worst approach, low risk high risk strategy that made it feel like a huge mess. The overall plot is a low risk rip off of Empire/ROTJ but they took huge risks with characters like Luke.

There were no legitimate risks. The heroes were all straight up righteous, learned valuable life lessons, and there was even the end-of-second-act-start-of-third down moment. A lot of disposables got killed with no fanfare to trick people into thinking there were stakes.

Critics are clearly wrong, it's the same disconnect between the media and the general population that's everywhere at this point and time.

It was first highlighted in Gamergate, specifically but the problem far extends just the scope of video games.

It's the same disconnect in how the media could not understand or see how Trump could and would win, the media surrounds themselves with people who think and act just like them and it insulates them from any other opinion.

Film critics are wrong, obviously...

Film critics today aren't like they were decades ago... Decades ago people literally went to school for this stuff, learned the intricacies of production, story telling, etc... When a film advertised "Two thumbs up from big name critic X" it actually meant something to people...

Film critics today are literally just 20 something English majors paid slightly above minimum wage to basically write a movie blog so major publications can retain an audience and generate clicks.

And Luke died like a bitch and just achieved another delay tactic, making his sacrifice mean as much as purple haired Laura Dern or that Asian bimbo bomber in the beginning.

If Mark or Carrie or Harrison had died well before George sold the franchise, they wouldn't have felt the need to make it specifically 30 years after Jedi just so they could shoehorn them back in.

Or this is intended as a way to control the mainstream thinking.

somewhat this, a large amount of the positive reviews i saw were like “well the story is nonsensical and the humor/writing/acting mostly falls flat but it’s just a star wars flick haha” they clearly didnt like it but didnt want a swarm of death threats from nu-wars fans

>le normies only watch movies for explosions
>us cultured folk who see space operas as the true highest art find the film intolerable

I have no strong feelings or attachment to star wars, and find most of them to just be okay movies. But that last one was a shit, it was too long and no one accomplished anything except kylo.

My impression was that you HAD to be a fan to enjoy all of that filler shit, not the other way around.

>audience opinion = will of the people
>critics opinion = will of the ruling elite

a vote for star wars is a vote for fascism, democracy has made its choice clear

#ProudToBeA55%er
#ItWasn'tRian'sTurn

Good Christ I'm a faggot. That was for

>That is the scale the critics are judging it on.
Delusional

what? It was basically ESB without any consequences.

Well it's true though. The Star Wars fans actually care about the intricacies of the setting and all that jazz and the normalfags just want some excitement.

>ravenously hated against Batman v Superman for over a year while pointing to the RT score
>want to defend TLJ but I have to argue against the same website I defended
;_;

you could definitely tell the director was trying to play with your expectations for a star wars movie a lot.

Remember when they said the casino is filled with "the worst kind of people"? That's probably just a reference to the first movie where they talk about it being a "wretched hive of scum and villainy". Then they flip expectations by making it super nice.
Or by playing up snoke to being an emperor palpatine level villain then cutting him down in a single scene.
Or even luke projecting himself as one of those force ghost.

There's significantly more that's different in this movie.

There is a clear disconnect between what the average american enjoys and what the bourgeoisie film critic fuck boy enjoys.
This isnt even the case of Sup Forums just being contrarian. Normal american proles and elitest hollywood shitbags clearly do not think the same.

All of that being said there are other dynamics at play here. Like if you are the guy who gives the shit wars movie a bad review then disney will no longer give you free tickets to the show and free merch bribes

>IT TOOK RISKS!!!!
>proceeds to callback to IV, mostly V, and VI in one movie but slightly change things and call it risks
Are people fucking retarded?

History will record and remember what the "critics" say, and forget what the people actually said. So they can engineer a critical success, it just takes a few years for the pleb comments to eventually disappear off the net

I'm hearing it is just bots and reddit brigadiers, the movie is great, ((they)) say.

In ten years time there's going to be another (not)jedi school probably headed by rey or her kids and (not)sith school headed by whoever. All these new force users that pop up are going to want to join together and learn from each other and that's exactly what a school is. So ending the jedi is pointless.

What they could have done if they wanted a completely new direction and to completely fuck every bit of lore is have all the humans rally together against any new force users because the force brought the empire and sheev. Have the peaceful force users oppressed by evil humans in a galaxy spanding genocide to stop the "awakening". idk, would be cool to see a war between a lot of non force users and few force users. New tactics to combat their force abilities

if you go through the reviews, there are a lot of critiques by people who actually took the time to point out why they didn't like the film. It wasn't just bots saying "it suxs!"

I suppose they are talking about they made the hero of the orginal films a borderline senile buffoon.

But then again, if you take a step back and look at the whole, it's not so different from how Yoda seems in the OT compared to prequel Yoda. Clearly they were following a formula even there.

She had to show all the girls out there not to be a slave to the shirtless chad and his pelvic intentions.

should we get tattoos like in memento?

>TLJ - 55% - lol
>Avatar 2 - #2 Movie of All Time that changed the cinema forever (again)
>Jumanji - genuinely litty little winter summer flick for the FANS

He was so busy "playing with expectations" that he forgot to make a good movie.

When are people going to realise you are not allowed to dislike certain movies. Disliking TLJ is like saying "I don't support a progressive society, I support slavery and I support rape"

Original Trilogy: Arthurian legend retold with lazers and robots

New trilogy: Corporate diversity seminar retold with lazers and robots

Pretty much. People will think you are alt-right if you say you hated TLJ. People will suss that out and just say they loved it because they don't want to be seen as alt-right.

>Which group is wrong?
Ask yourself which you enjoy more; movies where the critic score is significantly higher than the audience score, or movies where the audience score is significantly higher than the critic score.

Movie studios need to understand this; if you are not aiming to win Oscars (and mainstream movies almost never win Oscars) it behooves you to make a movie that caters more to everyday people than pretentious critics. Obviously Disney knows how to do this. Whatever you think of "capeshit", the movies follow a formula that does very well with audiences. So why did they get things so wrong with TLJ?

Because Kylo was still going to kill her friends on the ship/in the base

>#ProudToBeA55%er

As RLM said, Rey and Kylo working together to try to forge a new order and abandoning the old rebellion and the empire (which were both just extensions of the ineffectual old republic) would have been really interesting and a real extension of the theme of outgrowing the past and letting it die.

Different crews/studios working on different projects. SW is still largely under Lucasfilm's control and just because Disney owns them doesn't mean their culture would have changed all that much. The parent company probably gives them a lot of leeway to do things their own way.

However if this movie and Han Solo bomb badly enough the higher ups may feel the need to pressure LucasFilm to adapt the Marvel formula for success for not-Return of the Jedi.

what friends? The only person she had any connection to was Finn and she only knew him for a couple of days. She barely knows Leia only meeting her twice and she never met Poe at all.

This is a major problem with the new series - there is no group dynamic like there was in the old series where you had actual friends willing to sacrifice themselves of the others.

they arent catering to the people. If it were up to the people the cast would be all white and the movie would be a well written heroes journey where the characters are flawed and the good guys and bad guys have a clashing morality which is driving them both to achieve their goals. The characters would have depth. There would be no cheap pandering to identity politics or nostalgia .
And jar jar would have been shot in the head in the first scene of the first movie.

This isn't it, it's just papers that give bad reviews are typically excluded from future events and denied press oportunities. Also, most journalists are overwhelmingly liberal, they want to push Star Wars as the forefront of popular culture in America because it's starting to push their political agendas harder and harder. It's easy to claim they're getting paid off but in an industry that's all about generating controversy, someone would whistleblow if people were being bribed en masse. There's just a transactional implied understanding between the two parties.

Why is it even a question anymore?
Disney literally got busted blacklisting review sites because they said things about Disney they didn't like. How is it still a debate?

Liberals love them blacklists. Communists used to make lists so they knew who to execute when they took over.

This
Mate, I searched any bad review after episode VII, Only found one and that was it. They clearly paid google to not show bad reviews.

audience is wrong, critics are wronger

Remember when Sup Forums made George Lucas sell Star Wars cause the fan base was full of autism?

theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/19/george-lucas-star-wars-criticism-jj-abrams-disney-jar-jar-binks

Reposting from another thread
>even critics say critics are shit

t.Someone who hasnt watched the movie yet

Sauce on that? Looks like a good read.

>disappointing
That's not good criticism

Audiences are going to carry this to $1.5+ billion.

variety.com/2017/film/columns/star-wars-the-last-jedi-four-reasons-why-its-not-one-for-the-ages-1202643241/

because even if they hate it, fans will go and see it like they did the prequels

>projecting too hard
>so the leftist projected their projection propaganda into a movie where the evil useless pity while male projecting too hard
are they so much dumb to criticize themself or what?

The score would be 99% if white males weren't allowed to vote, just like how Trump wouldn't be President.

I hate it as both a Star Wars fan (it shit all over the lore and established characterization, didn't have "that scene" that all episodes 1-6 seemed to have) and as a fan of film (bad narrative, bad characters, bad pacing, anticlimactic).

People can and should legitimately destroy this film for what it is: garbage.

I enjoyed the new Star Wars Kino and I'm happy that we have struck a blow against the credibility RT. We really fucked them up with our mass voting against movies like JUST League

Stop baiting plz

Only the most insecure of brainlets look to modern movie critics for any sort of validation. It shouldn't have taken anyone until The Last Jedi to recognize their awful taste

This. Nevermind how flagrantly and offensively it contradicts the lore established in other films - it contradicts itself just as readily

It's pathetic that there was no actual criticism offered by professionals for this movie, just mind-numbing cheerleading in the most profanely dishonest way possible

only because they're being told to be annoyed, user
normalfags don't actually have opinions, they just ape the opinions of others

You're wrong. The nu-males that count for the tomato meter own every funko made for these franchises, they're massive fans - some even have tattoos

They've just never had good taste

Daily reminder

Let’s not pretend that the problem is fandom and not that nearly every plot development in this awful movie is retarded

> the retarded contrived opening where lightspeed tracking magically manifests in the 2 days between TFA and TLJ
> Finn and Rose’s retarded adventure
> Retarded Luke as a pouty manchild explained by a retarded ugly flashback we see three times that is the most contrived impetus imaginable. Literally a split-second misunderstanding turns into a 10 year old boy knocking out Luke and murdering his pupils
> the retarded unnecessary drama between Admiral Tumblr and Poe bc she wouldn’t say she had a plan
> the retarded Kylo killing Snoke somehow catching him by surprise as Snoke contemporaneously read his mind without sensing deception
> the retarded ending where they need a battering ram to knock down the front door and everybody gets a way by leaving out the back
> the retarded Luke death by Force Skype

It was genuinely all retarded and it’s fascinating to see outright brainlets still defending the legitimacy of critics and damage controlling this retarded flick

Hollywood just needs to admit that writing is of primary importance. The half rate music video veterans cannot fill that role.

Underrated post

>using the term alt right unironically
Fucking kill yourself

>When the salt settles, we are left with neither triumph nor tragedy; instead, it’s one more chapter in the continuing saga, punctuated by a few moments of genuine awe.
sandiegoreader.com/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi/

>Johnson’s effort is ultimately a disappointment.
variety.com/2017/film/reviews/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review-rian-johnson-1202635597/

>'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' falls short of sky-high hopes
cnn.com/2017/12/12/entertainment/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review/index.html