We can't explain how the First Order is so powerful...

>we can't explain how the First Order is so powerful, has so many men and so much resources even though they are a new organization, are actually the rebels and have only existed for a relative short time

>let's pretend thats not important and kill their leader, we make a great plot twist and don't need to explain their origin!

That was moronic even for a Disney film.

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t. brainlet

they "killed" him just to prove how powerful he is when he shows up in the next movie not dead.

If he comes back to life I’m literally walking out of the cinema at the instant

literally

It's gonna happen so pepper yourself.

So, how will they defeat someone that can defeat the fucking death?

Power of friendship.

Star wars is pretty much Naruto right now

>pink
>wrinkly
>powerful
>wears a flashy robe at all times
Snoke is basically space Hefner.

Power of love, rose said it m8. Pay attention

>no explanation or justification for characters or their actions in TFA
"I'm sure it will be explained in the sequel"
>No explanation or justification for characters or their actions in TLJ
"I'm sure it will be explained in the sequel"

Don't get tricked a third time you fuck. I was ready to see TLJ if the spoilers indicated they addressed the problems with TFA but they tripled down it so no shekels for them.

no thats how rey will defeat kylo, and he wont be able to turn back to the light so he'll ask her to mercy kill him.

take that white boi

he was a hologram

>he'll ask her to mercy kill him.
I cannot see another ending but she refusing and then they'll end up together, bringing peace to the Galaxy.

>Power of friendship.
>Star wars is pretty much Naruto right now
I always razz my coworker with this shit since he loves the new shit and even the prequels

>hate TLJ
>still planning to see the next movie
This is moronic, even for a redditor.

Everything about the antagonists is wrong, literally everything. How hard was it to say that they're the Imperial remnant and they've been around for a while, but they haven't been unified under a single warlord until recently?

>even though they are a new organization,
But they're not because they're made up of the remnants of a galactic empire with massive wealth.

>literally soap opera tier plot turns
>will also reveal Rey is Kylo’s sister, but only after they develop feelings for each other
What difference, at this point, does it make?

if leia "the virgin casual force user" can magically resurrect herself after getting blown the fuck up into the vacuum of space, then snoke the supposed "chad sith master" should be able to un-kill himself, right?
is that not the canon we're now forced to work with?

Now where have I seen that ending before?

>But they're not because they're made up of the remnants of a galactic empire with massive wealth.
Even if they are that doesn't make any sense. The Empire lost most of its best men and planets, yet they were at the start of TFA more powerful than the Empire ever was.

But they aren't because it was made apparent in the first movie that nobody had any fucking clue who they were and that none of the leaders had anything to to with the Empire. Where did they get their financing if they're regulated to backwater "uncharted sectors"? How are they producing so many new and improved ships/weapons/vehicles/fucking death stars, enough to wipe out the established government? Why are they not known as the fucking rebels against the new republic?

Even more importantly, who had the genius idea to have them winning at the beginning of TLJ when the previous movie showed them getting absolutely blown the fuck out?

this
though what would have been even better would be to the have the typical rebels vs empire/first order...but at the end reveal that the "rebels" are actually the remains of the empire, and that the empire/first order is the rebels from the earlier movies

But user, that would mean they would be fighting the establishment, it would be politically incorrect.

That's why the formal government has a branch called "Resistence"

you know, that sadly makes sense

>Mom, the sequels never held my hand and told me how these fictional bad guys rose to power!!! I'm so angry!!!
The Empire's rise to power was literally never explained until the prequels.
These sequels actually repeats a very big portion of faults that the OT did first, but everyobe's just forgiving them for existing in the OT for the case if jumping on the jate bandwagon for these new movies.
Sad!

>the remnants of a galactic empire with massive wealth.
So, why didn't they use all that wealth when the Rebel Alliance were still tinyand had almost a Pyrrhic victory at Endor?

Why did they wait 25 years so the Alliance could rebuild the Republic, probably using most of the infrastructure that once belonged to the Empire?

The first time it doesnt need to be explained because its a new universe and that is the status quo. But when they are Defeated it should be explained why the entirtre events of the OT were meaningless when the remnants of the destroyed org is now stronger than the original ever was

The fucking Empire was the established government in the beginning of the OT, no explanation needed. Rebels = small, empire = big.

Where in fucks sake does the First Order fit into the political and factional landscape of the post Empire world? You realize that we need more context other than "they're the bad guys", especially since there are six fucking movies before TFA.

>The Empire's rise to power was literally never explained until the prequels.
Unless you're talking about EU you're retarded.
We didn't need to know, it wasn't part of the story, that only covered 5 years. Now we have a vacuum of 25 years and they don't give us a clue about how the Last Order became so powerful.

Is this the most hypocritical and illogical train of thought to ever exist?

This mess of a trilogy looks a lot like what happened to The Hobbit:
>An Unexpected Journey
Great movie with a lot of passion and little details to it, has some flaws but still a joyful ride
>The Desolation of Smaug
Average movie, has too much elves on it and shoehorned old characters into the story unnecessarily. Has an awful final dramatic "battle" and a cliffhanger ending that spits on the face of everyone watching
>The Battle of the Five Armies
Awful flick which has so many jokes and stupid characters that do nothing and lead the story to nowhere and feel barebones

Just you fucking wait and you will see

Not him, but he is correct. It wasn't important to know how the Empire became so powerful at the OT, even thogh we, in the end, found out.

Now we just have do accept that the First Order, albeit being a bunch of rebels living in the frontier are powerful.

>An Unexpected Journey
>Great movie
>The Battle of the Five Armies
>Awful flick
I disagree with both, though I don't want to discuss that now. My point is, are you saying that the difference of quality between episodes VII and IX will be the same between "a great movie" and an "awful flick"?

We'll have something Transformers tier if that's so.

Or are you saying OT= great, Prequel=average and Seqauel=awful?

Another problem is how no one ever noticed Snoke existence in near 100 years.

Another problem is that he has control over Palpatine followers but how is that possible if the empire was supposed to follow the rule of 2? There was not supposed to be another force user in the empire or the first order besides Sidious and Vader.

And yet you are trashing a film you haven't watched on an animu board

>Or are you saying OT= great, Prequel=average and Seqauel=awful?

Not exactly, since I love episode III and V, while not likigin VI so much and simply hating I. Everything other than TLJ is fine for me, not excellent, but still fun and watchable.

TLJ is PM levels of awful, but at least Darth Maul was a cool looking character. Badly executed, but still great. Killing Snoke was such a wasted opportunity, and Kylo destroying his helmet just so he could let go of his obsession over Vader once again happened too early in the story imo.

>Where does the First Order fit in?
Your mom's vagina
It's actually so easy to accept that an uninteresting chain of event lead to the First Order's size
I don't need a monologue about a backstory to understand that history repeats itself


>We didn't need to know, it wasn't part of the story, that only covered 5 years. Now we have a vacuum of 25 years and they don't give us a clue about how the Last Order became so powerful.
How much spoonfeeding do you need to understand that there was peace and quiet until some sith fuck decided to build a giant Death Star copy and turn a jedi into a sith under the current dominant force's nose?
The exact same thing happened with the clone army lmao

even though we, in the end, found out
Well there's still a movie left that can fill your void, soyboy
In the meantime I'll revel in the fact that I'm not a baby who needs to be explained unimportant nitpicks

could they really not come up with a better name than Snoke?

>Everything other than TLJ is fine for me, not excellent, but still fun and watchable.

I swear I found TFA worse than TLJ. At least it had two decent large scale battles (even if the Rogue One battle was better) while TFA had a Utapau tier battle.

The audience can buy a narrative that in a fantasy sci fi world the galaxy is run by an evil empire organization without really needing to know how they acquired their galactic power. You can write about how it came to be but its not necessary to make the plot anymore engaging or believable for the audience to follow along since it doesn't obstruct anything in its fictional story. This is why stories can drop the reader off in middle of narratives and guide them from many different points while still being able to tell an interesting and non-obstructive story.

When you do these sequels you run into an issue of continuity. TFA decided to go 30 years into the story's future to drop the audience in a point in time where the status quo of the world is like that of A New Hope but perhaps even worse, despite the fact that the last time the audience was here the world was "saved". When one plot is in direct contention with another, the continuity of the overall narrative comes into questions

>hat there was peace and quiet until some sith fuck decided to build a giant Death Star copy and turn a jedi into a sith under the current dominant force's nose?
And how many neurons do you need to realize you cannot do that without a gigantic amount of resources, something that a renegade faction hidden in the depths of the Galaxy will never have?

>It's actually so easy to accept that an uninteresting chain of event lead to the First Order's size

>the empire has been dissolved after the events of OTs
>the First Order came in 20-30 something years later and completely remove the "rebels" from being in-power and reached the same level of strength as the old Empire in less amount of time

please be baiting.

Snoke did drop the word "wise" twice during the throne scene hinting at him being Plagueis the Wise whose entire life was spent searching for how to escape death.

>world is like that of A New Hope but perhaps even worse, despite the fact that the last time the audience was here the world was "saved"
Shouldn't Anakin's sacrifice bring peace for the Galaxy for like, one thousand years?
Was all that for nothing?

pull a Sheev and dispose of him in his sleep

This is retarded, but still less retarded than what actually happened.

I'd almost buy Snoke coming back, the more I think about it, his entire physical appearance is that of massive, disformed scars that seem to have barely healed.
His head looks as if it was cut apart, and put back together.
I can imagine him having some bullshit ability to survive this.

Also, if he IS actually did, will they ever explain how he was able to turn Kylo/Ben to the dark side so quickly? He apparently did it while Ben was still training with Luke, so how did Snoke find Ben? What was his goal in turning him, specifically? Why bring these details up, just to kill him a minute later?

>nitpicked prequels because of too many lore, characters and slow pacing shit it had

>now nitpickining disney for not expanding universe and explaining shit

Fuck you
All SWfags are literally spoiled crybabies and manchildren who will will never be satisfied
Kill yourselves

No there ins't because the republic was not even taking them seriously, and few days later they show up with extra soldiers and recources from nowhere and take overcountless planets by force.

The Death Star in its prime was way more advanced than Starkiller base, where all you need to do is dig two big holes (which droids do for you in a quick speed) and install your tech
With the second Death Star in ROTJ, it's CANONICALLY confirmed to us that repeating a certain type of technology takes less time
Since Starkiller is an old concept where you need less infrastructure, 20-30 years is perfectly acceptable

Democracy works to give individuality
Therefore, without delving into the EU, it's logical that not every single free ex-empire planet joins the resistance
In this way, a serious big amount of the galaxy is unsurveilled, and the resistance would not keep the entire galaxy on lock like the Empire in any way
It's not a far stretch to believe that there were still some big Empire fanatics who were willing to support the First Order after the Empire's downfall
With Starkiller base built in just the right spit where there are as littke teavellers as possible, it's perfectly believable to any non-brainlet

wtf Im going to spend a whole year of my salary on Disney’s Star Wars merchandise and official products now

They're going to do something retarded in episode 9 with him. Like Rey is going to convince Kylo to turn and Kylo considers it then the force ghost of Snoke will possess Kylo. There will be a battle and Snoke will beat her. Though before Snoke finishes her off Kylo fights back and tells Rey to kill him and somehow ending Snoke. She does with tears in her eyes and then we get her telling everyone how Kylo no matter what still had light in him.

Actually they did explain it in the OT. They said there was a Senate that was dissolved because they had the death star, which would keep systems in line and hierarchy was going to go warlordship.

The first order is just people dressed as Storm troopers. There is no explanation why they are an empire

He was an Astral projection, but why would you ever pay to see another Star Wars after TLJ anyway?

>there is too much lore in the preguels
>ok so there will be no lore in the seguels at all
Retards like you can't tell what is moderation.

The story isn't repeatingv though. Sidious and Vader made a coup mostly from withing, and had the vast Republic structure to develop their plans (the Senate was still working at the beginning of ANH).
The First Order however is building everything almost from the ground.

yeah but if he can comeback from the dead once why can't he come back a second or third.
its gonna take a huge deus ex machina and even then its gonna suck.

It may seem odd that everyone talks about Vader in this movie as the go to "Bad Guy" to emulate when it was the Emperor who was the more successful evil lord.

Yet if you read a couple of the books like The Lords of the Sith, it may be pretty understandable how Snoke and all them may not be entirely aware of what Palpatine really was. Long story short: Papa Palps went out of his way to keep his Sith status a still well kept secret despite the fact he was the single most powerful person in the Galaxy, only a handful of guys really knew.

yes yes..
>For losers, books are! hoho!
I just wish maybe though they threw in some Emperor references anyways since he was pretty important and powerful.

I'm sorry but if you liked battle of the five armies you shouldn't expect anyone to appreciate your opinion on basically anything film related.

>Since Starkiller is an old concept where you need less infrastructure, 20-30 years is perfectly acceptable
It isn't though. Not because it huge (though that means it would take so much more resources to build it's unlikely they could, after all, the Empire didn't), but it also has a far more advanced technology. Didn't you see it draining a fucking Star? Or firing hundreds of times faster than light?

Is there going to be a scene where Poe is going to have to shoot a torpedo down a deathstar ventilation shaft while it's spinning?

>I WOULD DO IT BETTER!

In a universe where things like Wookies, the force and Death Stars already exists, I refuse in any way to acknowledge that a continuation of the exact same principles can be seen as unbelievable or unjustified

kill death

Naruto actually had a pretty decent end for someone who was essentially immortal.

Wait...
You guys have been paying for these shitshows the whole time?!

>YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE IF YOU CAN'T DO BETTER
Yeah, I see that you're even more retarded than I thought

Because capitalism works.

Starkiller base is so many magnitudes more powerful than the death star it's like comparing a sniper rifle to an atom bomb. Point blank one shotting a planet is in no way on the same scale as annihilating several planets
Simultaneously, whole systems apart.

if kylo and rey dont bang canonically i'm gonna throw a brick through JJ Abram's window

he literally never implied doing anything himself. dumb fuck

in the prequels
>LOL TAXATION OF TRADE ROUTES IMPREIAL SENATE

in the sequels
>lol everything that happened in the ot was for nothing, here's a rehash of a new hope and a clusterfuck of a sequel

Starkiller has a bigger weapon, but also doesn't move and can't sustain itself past a SINGLE use. It's established in the movie that it's faulty and unperfect compared to the Death Star, even if it had more power on its charged attack.
Face it, you're wrong.

But the lightsaber cut through him and Kylo's didn't cut through Luke.

>Y-YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE ME DESPITE THAT IM A SPOILED MANCHILD SHIT WHO CAN'T ENJOY ANYTHING BECAUSE I HIT PUBERTY ONLY IN MY 30-IES
Just stop watching movies

> but also doesn't move and can't sustain itself past a SINGLE use
JJ confirmed it does though.

If it can't sustain itself past a single use, how exactly was it going to shoot again to destroy the Resistance base?

the movie itself showed us the sun consequently dying
idk what the director says if it wasn't apparent in the movie

>doesn't move
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base

>J-JUSTICE LEAGUE CGI WAS NOT AWFUL BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T DO BETTER
>S-STOP CRITIZING WHAT I LIKE I'M TOO AUTISTIC TO BEAR THAT
Just stop going to Sup Forums

>"spoiled manchild shit who can't enjoy anything because I hit puberty only in my 30-ies"
You're projecting harder than Luke did.

If they wanted to impress people they shouldn't have had him fail to see Kylo Ren thinking about killing him AS HE WAS READING HIS FUCKING MIND.

see it on a plane

>b-but he could never be betrayed, he could never be beaten!
How the fuck do you write shit worse than the prequels?

Yes, there has never been a real life example of an evil empire being defeated then a slightly different version of it popping up again in 30 years.

Pro tip see WWI and WWII Germany.

>Diameter
>660 kilometers
>Death Star II used to have 900 km of diameter before they killed EU
>the diameter of our moon is 3.500 km
Why are they trying to make older stuff less cool?

What if Snoke and Kylo planned Snoke's "death" to try to convince Rey to join Kylo in the darkside?

>Pro tip see WWI and WWII Germany.
Not him, but your exemple is stupid, you're comparing a formal state of a relatively rich nation with rebels at the frontier of the Galaxy (yeah, the First Order are rebels, deal with it).

I'm not saying it isn't possible for that to happen, because the plausibility of the empire in the original trilogy is kind of hinged on the plausibility of something like Axis in Europe in real history

Hitler's rise to power and the Nazi party in general has a reasoning in history that you can read about. Because it is a good question to ask how something like Hitler and WWII happened after WWI, just like how it is a good question to ask how the First Order is a thing after the Original Trilogy. It is something that you need to find out about and read to find the answer to, but in these SW movies there is no answer provided

>nitpicked prequels because of too many lore

World building was one of the areas where the prequels actually delivered.

The Canon explanation for the first order was that after the emperor died the moffs basicly took their individual battle fleets and said I am the captain now. After some in fighting and battle with rebels eventually culminating in the battle in space over jacko most of the empires reining forces were destroyed.

However, the moff in charge of a remote shipbuilding facility near the edge of the galaxy did not take part in these battles. He instead kidnapped as many youngling as he could and started a massive buildup and training campaign funded by loyalists in the new republic.

Eventually snoke found them or they found snoke and he became their emperor. Queue some rebranding, then Lazer firing, followed by invasion.

All the while the rebel fleet was in ruin and the new republic had no real military. Each system still has remnants of a military from back in the day. But why would they fight the first order/empire 2.0? The empire basicly let them rule themselves so long as they paid tribute.

Snoke is Plageius. Kylo is going to die with Rey ending the Sith-Jedi paradigm and everyone has access to the force ala end of TLJ kids and Rogue 1 random force users

That's the very point, the rise and fall of the Third Reich is amazingly interesting. Disney intentionally prevented us to know what the heck is the First Order and how are they so powerful after being fucked up beyond repair in the OT when they killed Snoke because they could not explain that.

Stop being a mother fucking piece of shit normie and blaming TLJ for this.
This is all JJ's fault for not explaining a single thing in TFA and making the worst start to a trilogy imaginable.

They literally kicked his corpse around a couple of times

They are both to blame. JJ for starting but with all that budget and time Rian Johnson had the obligation of giving us some explanations.

Jedi Horcruxes, I'm sure.

That just explains the weakness of the Republic, not the strength of the First Order.

>snoke was cloned
>he would never be retarded enough to expose himself
>snoke was playing 9d chess

How mad would you be?

...

>Pro tip see WWI and WWII Germany
Let's say we lived in a universe where these two wars didn't happen, and I decided to write a story with them and make a movie about it. I dropped you in the middle of a gritty, violent war going nowhere, and slowly but surely progressed the story to a satisfying conclusion where the day is won, the Germans are defeated, and the Allies are richer than ever.
Now let's say I want to make a sequel where there's an even bigger war where the enemy is even more powerful. Fine. I develop a story that bridges the gap between the two wars where the Germans, in squalor in the wake of the old war, are unified under the promise of an economic boom and military might, and come out stronger than ever. They rise up in a time when the whole world is falling down into an economic depression, and eventually they see fit to conquer all of Europe, and succeed to an extent. But instead of explaining how we got from point A to point B, I drop you off in the middle of WWII with no context whatsoever, leaving you utterly confused as to how the completely gutted Germans became the powerful Nazis.
That's what happened between RotJ and TFA. The transition from WWI to WWII makes no sense without the context of the gap between them, something even a tiny little blurb about the state of affairs in the opening crawl in TFA could have fixed. But because of JJ's intense fear of politics, we're left utterly perplexed and angry. Also
>WWI Germany
>evil empire
ok retard