Sup Forums examples of where a villain established as the story's big bad was overtaken by a completely random...

Sup Forums examples of where a villain established as the story's big bad was overtaken by a completely random, new character with zero foreshadowing or buildup?

Pic not related? Had foreshadowing out the ass. The guy is a literal shadow on top of that

I assume he meant Kaguya.

And then another contender appeared and the shadow was irrelevant

I think he's talking about the person who randomly popped up and overtook him.

I stopped reading Naruto before the end, but I thought Zetsu was Madara?

You know you fucked up when three people tell you the same thing within 10 seconds

And kaguya was foreshadowed long enough before she appears, just not by name.

Well the story was Madara this and that forever and then, out of fucking nowhere at the last chapters of the story, this creature from the moon suddenly takes the stage as main villain while Madara dies a humiliating death.

Hack writing.

Cite examples?

I bet it happened a lot in 90s

There is no other kind of writing in Naruto.

Heard something about Dark Beast in the bendis X-Men run.

I think Norman Osborn being brought back to life and retroactively inserted as the "mastermind" of a good chunk of the clone saga counts as that.

Dude was a fucking OP god. Even Kishi didn't know how to kill him off.

I pretend everything post-Juubito's defeat isn't canon.

Also everyone ITT saying that Kaguya business was foreshadowed is wrong. Literally the concept of her character was created during the final battle. She only exists because Kishi's editors told him to stretch the manga out for money.

>Using Naruto as an example of anything related to plot or storytelling.

Is there any comic or manga that built up so much lore and details and themes as Naruto, then just fucking dropped and ignored them? I came back to read the series towards the end of it, and saw nothing in common with the goofy show I loved as a kid.

Got shit like
>the original theme of hard work overcoming magical crap and overriding any hurr im the chosen one shit utterly BTFO
>the village authorised the uchiha massacre and made a 13 y/o do it by threatening his little brother, nobody ever brings it up or makes it common knowledge
>the hyuga clan are still making slaves out of their own clan members
>karin is from the same clan, has the same abilities and similar appearance to kushina but nobody brings it up, ever
>sure, just let orochimaru roam free because he didnt want the world to end and helped the main characters a little bit
>bring up that chakra comes from aliens, nobody goes into space or even has a space program in the future

Kishimoto just gave up, right?

For me, Naruto ended after the Uchiha arc. This isn't to say that some battles weren't baller as fuck in Shippuden but I think the story was tighter back when Naruto and Sasuke were rivals, as opposed to being destined to fight one another due to their legacies.

>>>>>>

Almost anything written by Scott Snyder. That man can't do a good ending to save his life

...

There was this one time Bendis thought he might be able to put some Spidey villains into the X-Men, so he put a lot of work into making Mysterio the bad guy.

But then editorial intervened and Bendis just made it... Dark Beast from the Age of Apocalypse. Randomly.

Well,if i remember well, they did mention ONE entity was fucking up the barrier between the real world and the digital world.
Not the 4 grandmasters guys

Would this be a better example?

>>the original theme of hard work overcoming magical crap and overriding any hurr im the chosen one shit utterly BTFO
Now let's be fair prior to Naruto becoming a ninja he didn't work hard a day in his life while the "prodigies" like Sauske and Neji trained tooth and nail every day to become better.
Hard work would have worked way better for the theme of Naruto if they shown he got good grades and practice while not being able to catch up

>the original theme of hard work overcoming magical crap and overriding any hurr im the chosen one shit utterly BTFO
This shit triggers me to no end. At this point I think it's bait, no one can be that oblivious after THAT many discussions.

Well the Dark Masters were supposed to be the Four Horsement of the Apocalypse.

Multiversity

>Well the Dark Masters were supposed to be the Four Horsement of the Apocalypse.

In what way?

Like just because there were four of them?

Because I don't see how any of them could be analogous with Famine or Pestilence.

What, are you talking about Gentry or the Empty Hand?

Empty Hand, it wasn't really foreshadowed.

How is this bullshit still here, but a Picture of Kylo Ren was deleted because apparently it's not 'western'?

STAT SCREEN!

I mean sure if you don't count the Guidebook

Piedmon was Death

Machinedramon was War.

I once saw an explanation on how Puppetmon and Metalseadramon represented Famine and Pestilence but I can't remember the specifics of that theory.

>Hard work would have worked way better for the theme of Naruto if they shown he got good grades and practice while not being able to catch up

Boku no Hero Academia?

>r prior to Naruto becoming a ninja he didn't work hard a day in his life
but the whole point of Hinata falling in love with him was for him working hard as fuck, mostly alone, and yet not being able of catching up. What the hell are you smoking?

He didn't even know what Chakra was he wasn't able to do a simple clone jutsu, he never did his homework,wasted time pulling pranks than going to school, and when he did he barely paid attention. Then he gets mad when he didn't graduate he clearly had the talent seeing how he was able to master a top level advance form of the clone jutsu in one night and able to use the rasengan in a week tops but he never tried prior to that.

Bullshit. Kishi can't worldbuilding.

I'll grant you that her existence is foreshadowed in a far off abstract way, but her sudden elevation to series antagonist was a bullshit asspull.

>the original theme of hard work overcoming magical crap and overriding any hurr im the chosen one shit utterly BTFO
This was the lamest shit. Predestination is almost always shit when it's not set as the main theme from the beginning

So what is the right message, then?

It was the main theme. Naruto had the fox from day one. Neji was right about destiny, just not his own

Bonds and fucking friendship. How can this be so difficult to grasp?

Yeah but the fox was a fucking demon, something as dangerous than it is powerful. Naruto uses its power multiple times but he's also at risk of being eaten by it.
Too bad Kishi dropped this too and made Kurama a top tier bro that decides to help Naruto instead of trying to possess him.

Also Naruto did have to work. He had to work for the summons, he had to work for the rasengan, and all of his techniques until the author got lazy and just turned him into Goku

>oops you thought Scarecrow was the main villain too bad it's Liam Nesson with a katana now
>you thought Joker and the boats were the climax well Two-Face is evil now because Joker told him to be
>who was Bane supposed to be again ?

Sauske embodied the hard work meme

>always second best to your brother
>practice fire ball jutsu everday to impress your father who you think doesn't love you
>when clan is massacred promises revenge trains everyday
>Get straight A's in school and practices enough to make it look effortlessly
>sell your soul to an effeminate snake thing to get even stronger and learn techniques
becomes the only person in the manga with the most diverse moveset even more than thousand eye pleb
> He had to work for the summons,
demon
>he had to work for the rasengan
It took his dad and sage years to use while it took him three days

The one with Bane got me, it was so fucking stupid when he was billed the big bad in everything and he was killed off so anti-climatically

there's a difference between learning a technique from a master and inventing it, to be fair

He had at most half a year of real training in total to learn everything from shodow clones to rasengan shuriken. He's brokenly talanted, one could wonder how much more powerful he could get with a resolve and hard work of Lee.

Kuruma never made any sense, he literally was giving out chakra to Naruto, no control required. A bunch of times he even gave him his chakra because if he didn't, Naruto would allegedly die, which should be a good thing for Ninetails, as it's been said that after the death of the jinchuriki tailed beast respawn in the natural habitat after some time.

No, the issue in the Neji vs Naruto case was that Neji thought that people couldn't fight against fate, and that people who were born losers would live and die as losers. Naruto beating him proved his ideology wrong, at least until after the timeskip when Neji was actually sort of right because Naruto was never born a loser in the first place.

Also, even if the message hadn't been contradicted, I find it less inspiring than "hard work can beat genius".

4th created it and taught toad sage who remarked Naurto learned it faster than he did

>good thing for Ninetails, as it's been said that after the death of the jinchuriki tailed beast respawn in the natural habitat after some time.
Wat? I thought that if the host died the tailed beast would die with them and that's why the fox helped Naruto when his life was threatened?

I thought the fox only helped because it weakens the seal every time he does.

Naruto beating him proved that Neji had no saying as to what destiny holds before other peoples. That's literally it. It didn't prove there was no destiny, or that hardwork wins at the end, or anything romantic like that. Because Neji most certainly trained much much more than Naruto to prove his clan to be wrong.

At one point hard work was the topic of the manga, it was Lee's arc and we all know how it turned out for him to be. So honestly I have zero idea where this stupid 'central message of early Naruto is hard work beats talent' meme comes from.

Because the tailed beasts are pure chakra, they cannot actually be killed; if they or their jinchūriki die, their chakra will re-coalesce in time. This is also mentioned when Minato seals the Kyuubi, see chapter 503, pages 14 and 17.

The Dark Knight Rises
>bane is the worst villain ever!
>lol nope it's """""""""""""""""talia al'gul"""""""""""""" we masked it by making sure she doesn't wear makeup the whole movie

Then why the hell was the fox helping out Naruto during Part 1?
Wouldn't he dying be beneficial to it?

He's a tsundere, that's the only in universe explanation I have. The reality is much less prosaic - Kishi is a hack.

This faggot. Especially in Flashpoint

>nine tails gets controlled my the Uchihas
>Obito unleashed it on the village
>being part of a kid isn't a worse fate than being absorbed for the 10 tails

Gotham's reckoning

I think it was explained that if Naruto dies, it would take Kyuubi a while to get back to full power because of the seal, during which time he'd be vulnerable. It was safer to just keep giving Naruto more and more power until the seal weakened and he could come out at full power.

A Big Guy

Hell no.

Ra's was a well built up villain, though

>Flashpoint
That's a bait and switch actually, from the start people believed he was him behind it all, it turns out it was Barry fucking up.

Even Kaguya had foreshadowing though. Y'all should have expected this when the Sage man took the time to explain to Naruto and Sasuke about his all-powerful alien mother that this was gonna happen.

>Y'all should have expected this when the Sage man took the time to explain to Naruto and Sasuke about his all-powerful alien mother that this was gonna happen.
Yeah and how far into the story did THAT conversation take place.

That happened like 10 chapters before she suddenly became the final boss.

Even the sage would have made a better final boss since he got name dropped like a thousand times before and Madara and Obito were both aiming to become the new sage.

>Even the sage would have made a better final boss
He was a good and kind sweet man, fuck you

If you only read Final Crisis by itself and not Superman Beyond, Mandrakk came out of no where near the end of it

The first mention about him didn't paint him as a 100% good guy