Which was the better show?
I remember back in the day I'd always hear that Adventures sucked and SatAM was the GOAT show but I think a mixture of meme culture and an aversion to "serious" stories in Sonic after tire fires like Sonic 06 has caused a reversal of opinion.
>I think a mixture of meme culture and an aversion to "serious" stories in Sonic after tire fires like Sonic 06 has caused a reversal of opinion.
You are correct. SatAM is better but memebois
I don't like either but I honestly have to say Adventures. Never liked the concept of the Freedom Fighters and uber-serious Robotnik, and the tone and art direction don't really work for Sonic.
The only legit good pieces of Sonic animation are the OVA and Night of the Werehog (also the unlockable shorts from Unleashes if we're counting those).
Between the three DiC shows, I'd say Adventures. SatAM may have had more competent production values and a storyline, but at the same time, it gave us episodes like "The Odd Couple" (aka that one where Sonic wrecks Antoine's shit) and Dulcy as a whole. Whereas the staff behind Adventures knew what they were doing, but were hampered by its low budget a lot of the time. Plus it's got the better Robotnik between the two.
Both are still better than either Sonic Underground or Sonic X, however.
satam
is this even a real question?
the other was awful.
>the tone didn't work
I don't remember much about satam, but the games were absolutely more serious. how is that not a good fit?
aosth was my favorite because of robotnik. he made that entire show. younger me thought satam was pretty boring, but i've come to appreciate it now.
>I think a mixture of meme culture and an aversion to "serious" stories in Sonic after tire fires like Sonic 06 has caused a reversal of opinion
This is true but there's more to it.
The "meme culture" aspect actually did make plenty of us appreciated AoStH more for what it was, a comedic kid's show. Even when you take the memes aside Robotnik is genuinely a really entertaining character with a great performance by a great singer. He's literally the only real reason to watch the show but it's a good reason regardless (and after a while the animators probably realized this since they made the show more and more about him). There's not much to the show and most people who enjoy it do so ironically but that's still a way to enjoy it.
SatAM tried really hard to be more serious and distance itself from the franchise. It wasn't even supposed to be a Sonic cartoon, it was a generic action show that had Sonic property painted over it. And for a while, yeah, you'd hear people say it was the greatest spin-off of the series. But guess what, after Sonic 06 and the Shadow The Edgehog game, as well as a lot of autismal fanbase shit happened, a lot of us grew up and realized that Sonic doesn't really work in a serious context (especially when he's still voiced by Urkel). Oh I'm sure there's plenty of you out there who still like an EXTR3M3 Sonic (the Archie comics do have an audience), but I don't think I'm the only one who grew out of it.
I'd say both shows are like 4/10s but AoStH aged a little better.
They are both preferable to Sonic Underground and Sonic X, but Sonic Boom is better than all of them.
Adventures >>>>>>>>>>> SatAM the only people who like SatAM are furries
I hate all sonic games but I watched adventures for grounder because he was a cute robot.
The real question is who was the better Robotnik since he's the best thing about both shows
>SatAM tried really hard to be more serious and distance itself from the franchise. It wasn't even supposed to be a Sonic cartoon, it was a generic action show that had Sonic property painted over it. And for a while, yeah, you'd hear people say it was the greatest spin-off of the series. But guess what, after Sonic 06 and the Shadow The Edgehog game, as well as a lot of autismal fanbase shit happened, a lot of us grew up and realized that Sonic doesn't really work in a serious context (especially when he's still voiced by Urkel). Oh I'm sure there's plenty of you out there who still like an EXTR3M3 Sonic (the Archie comics do have an audience), but I don't think I'm the only one who grew out of it.
Not only that, but as I mentioned in my last post, it has a bunch of flaws going for it too. Most of them in season 2, as season 1's main flaw was that "It's boring". Season 2, on the other hand, had:
>Dulcy and her "ma" running joke
>time travel
>11-minute "comedic" stories
>Sonic's three-ringed asspull in the finale
>characters who appear only to do jack shit
>dat Sonic Spinball tie-in in the season premiere
And that's just what I can produce from the top of my head.
def the ABC version.
>furries bad robots good
mkay
the ABC robotnik was better
atleast you could watch the saturday AM cartoon. the fox show came on weekdays at like 5am. fuck that i had to get ready for school
Adventures is basically TTG but with Sonic.
Adventure`s robotnik is memorable just on meme magic alone. Youtube poops definitely enhanced my enjoyment of him
Satam`s version was just so threatening and menace i can`t help but love it. Plus i cum all over Jim Cummings everytime he speaks.
>furries bad robots good
This is objectively true.
>distance itself from the franchise
>sonic doesn't work in a serious context
And this is how you spot a memer talking out their ass.
How's your Shadow fanfiction going, Timmy ?
SatAM. Though my memory of it is hazy. I remember Adventures more due to syndication, but was also disappointed to find that it wasn't SatAM.
Not the same person, but I think Sonic works in a sort of semi-serious sort of way. In the typical sort of campy old fashion saturday morning super hero sort of way with those kind of moments of "will he make it in time" and a mustache twirling villain sort of way.
So basically somewhere in the middle where it's not too silly but not too serious either. Like Pokemon or something.
The only remarkable thing about SatAm's Robotnik was Jim Cummings, and to give credit where it's due he's very talented and clearly giving it his damndest to make him creepy. And I also give credit to him for having already taken over the world. But everything else is unbeliavably generic and lackluster, same with the rest of SatAm
AoStH Robotnik is generally agreed to be the reedeeming factor of the show and his popularity as a YTP meme is a testament to just how great he is. Long John Baldry's delivery is amazing but it's not even just that. It's his characterization, the ridiculousness, the way he is animated (they actually put a lot of thought into the way he is animated), everything just comes together to make this character a hilarious object of ridicule.
There is just no contest
I loved Adventures as a kid, it was MY Sonic, that's the one I grew up with, and I loved it
It's shit in retrospect, some childhood shows hold up , some don't, that one...doesn't. When I was a kid I didn't see it as a comedy show, it was the show of my hero, Sonic....I never saw SAT AM for whatever reason, I don't think I had cable back then or something maybe, but when I saw it later I was like yeah...this is a little more good, because watching Adventures is just awful now
I think AoSTH was probably better as a complete package, certainly as early-90s American kids programming.
That's not to say SatAM is without merit (I mean, it gave us Sally. :^) )
So I'm going to say Sonic OVA, mostly because I would platonically spend the rest of my life with Old Man Owl.
>I think Sonic works in a sort of semi-serious sort of way. In the typical sort of campy old fashion saturday morning super hero sort of way with those kind of moments of "will he make it in time" and a mustache twirling villain sort of way.
You see I agree with this sentiment to an extent. I can see why people do get invested in these characters. Hell, while I stopped being a fan a while ago, I still really like Eggman/Robotnik's character and he is the reason why I actually did read a few issues of the Archie comics and why I occasionally watch an episode of Sonic Boom.
I'm not arguing that there's anything inherently bad about enjoying Sonic more seriously, I'm arguing that SatAM is a lackluster and pathetic attempt at making Sonic more serious that really doesn't have much to do with Sonic (or at least didn't at the time). SatAM is just one of the many attempts made to write serious Sonic stories that turned out to be almost as juvenile as the fanfictions written by the fans.
>I think AoSTH was probably better as a complete package
I just have to ask...what did you find good about that show at all? Certainly not animation, certainly not humor, certainly not story....so what the fuck is left?
Which once again brings us to the best girl.
I would argue Sonic has always been somewhat serious despite using cute cartoon characters. the main plot of the games was basic...but it was about saving all the creatures from being enslaved by a madman, Sonic may have been a Mickey Mouse looking nigga, but he had relationships with characters like Tails and Knuckles and Eggman, and Robotniks metal Sonic clones and mechs seemed like Megaman type shit
The games were "kiddy" in nature, but they felt way more serious than say Mario, which was like LOLRANDUM the game series
Sonic was more or less forced into becoming more serious once the games made their way into America and details were changed. Robotnik clearly was not supposed to be seen as a madman at first, just a dumb Teddy Roosevelt caricature with an egg theme. This was back when localizations were allowed to just rewrite shit whenever they wanted (this happened a lot with Street Fighter).
>The games were "kiddy" in nature, but they felt way more serious than say Mario, which was like LOLRANDUM the game series
But that's really not what Mario was at all.
You can argue Sonic was more serious than Mario but not by a whole lot (this was a franchise for children no matter how many times the fans deny it). They had to be a bit more "serious" because, while Mario's appeal was in simplicity and being an everyman, Sonic was "cool and hip", so he needed a bit more of an attitude (which required a bit more character).
I mean if you want to talk "seriousness" the first Mario game has Koopa using dark magic to turn all of the residents of the Mushroom Kingdom into blocks and plants. That's not any different from what Robotnik was doing to the animals (in fact it's arguably worse because you never saw those citizens escape free like the animals did).
I don't understand why Sonic fans feel the need to bring up unnecessary Mario comparisons.
I only bring up the Mario comparison to make my point, I'm not saying the games are better or worse
Nothing about Mario made any sense story wise, Sonic had a kid friendly image and WAS for kids, but it lended itself to being taken seriously by kids from a story perspective, a mad scientist enslaving the worlds animals for his robot army? Doesn't make sense in the real world, makes sense in kid world, and was in tune with many cartoon cliches at the time
Bowser turns people into blocks and plants...why? Why does Mario fight turtles and mushrooms with legs? None of it makes sense and nobody ever took the story seriously, they were just fun games...people got invested in Sonic on another level because the story interested them and sparked their imaginations, Sonic lends itself well to the typical "kids action show" format while Mario really does not, this isn't about who's better, it's just about the point I was trying to make and why some people took Sonic seriously
>Sonic was more or less forced into becoming more serious once the games made their way into America and details were changed. Robotnik clearly was not supposed to be seen as a madman at first, just a dumb Teddy Roosevelt caricature with an egg theme. This was back when localizations were allowed to just rewrite shit whenever they wanted (this happened a lot with Street Fighter).
Inconsequential desu, the end product is what kids played and what had an impact. Originally Eggman was the hero, it also means nothing.
They both have their problems but i'll take an actual plot and character development over random wackiness and slapstick.
>Sonic had a kid friendly image and WAS for kids, but it lended itself to being taken seriously by kids from a story perspective
Yes because clearly the children who liked Sonic did it because they thought about the story. I'm sure kindergardeners had a wonderful time thinking about the thrilling adventures of the cartoon hedgehog running across levels.
I mean, the story of the fat plumber who jumps on turtles and eats mushrooms to save his princess from an evil turtle, that's shit and no one cares. But the story about the blue hedgehog who ran super fast to fight against a fat man in a robot ? Now that is some cool shit that everyone cares about.
>Nothing about Mario made any sense story wise
>Bowser turns people into blocks and plants...why? Why does Mario fight turtles and mushrooms with legs?
There are answers to both of these things but since they are so easy to figure out I'll ask you: is this really your argument ? That Mario doesn't make sense and somehow Sonic does ? This is such an inane argument.
>None of it makes sense and nobody ever took the story seriously
Actually there are people who did the game's stories seriously. The Mario fanbase is full of autists who did it and they act exactly like the Sonic fans who do so. They just aren't as noticeable to people outside of it because Nintendo really doesn't give a shit and no one with a functional lobe is dumb enough to take Mario outside of the RPGs seriously.
>Sonic lends itself well to the typical "kids action show" format while Mario really does not
Because the only way they did it was by completely revamping everything from the barebones premise the games presented them with.
I could easily make a Mario action cartoon if I took everything from Double Dragon cartoon and painted Mario characters over it. But that would be juvenile and stupid.
>Yes because clearly the children who liked Sonic did it because they thought about the story. I'm sure kindergardeners had a wonderful time thinking about the thrilling adventures of the cartoon hedgehog running across levels.
>I mean, the story of the fat plumber who jumps on turtles and eats mushrooms to save his princess from an evil turtle, that's shit and no one cares. But the story about the blue hedgehog who ran super fast to fight against a fat man in a robot ? Now that is some cool shit that everyone cares about.
I'm telling you from my perspective as someone who was a kid when the games came out, as a kid and knowing other kids, Mario was goofy crap, but Sonic was cool and made sense...as much sense as Ninja Turtles or Transformers did. Sonic even turned into a badass super mode with Super Sonic, he fought mechs, the music was epic and rocked....it was totally different than Mario, which presented itself as goofy crap, while both were indeed and still are goofy crap, as a kid there was a difference, Sonic felt like it took itself seriously, as seriously as kids media can
I'd answer the rest of your points but I'd just be repeating myself, honestly. Mario felt like kids stuff, and it presented itself as such....Sonic was kids stuff, but it presented itself as being cool and it was cool.
>Because the only way they did it was by completely revamping everything from the barebones premise the games presented them with.
I think you could easily meet in the middleground of SAT AM and the actual games...very easily, the show took many liberties but the same effect could be had without taking those liberties, just like the anime could have been done without the owl or furry princess plotline or etc etc
I don't think Sonic is "adult", but it certainly is in the realm of shit like TMNT which can be taken seriously by kids and was
They both did what they were meant to do very well, but AoStH didn't have the budget it needed to really shine. At the end of the day, it's like asking "Which was better: Freakazoid or Superman: The Animated Series?"
AoStH had a reputation as the dumb Sonic cartoon, largely thanks to the Sonic fandom and their sanctification of SatAM Sonic. We're now seeing a pushback against that, mostly due to memebois. Not saying they don't have a point, but they're getting as rabid as the SatAM fanboys.
Of course, there's been a negative reaction to "serious" Sonic since Shadow showed up, but that's because he was an edge too far.
Again, they were the best fit for the shows they were in - if Jim Cummings had voiced Robotnik in AoStH and vice versa, then it wouldn't have been quite as good either way.
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Personally, I'd say Baldry's Robotnik wins by a ragged, intentionally off-model whisker.
Speaking of characterisations, no-fucking-one of SatAM cast kept their personalities in a comic.
You know what they say: the whole is more than just a sum of parts.
Weeeeeell, that's not quite true; Bunnie, Snively and... I want to say most of the Wolf Pack were pretty much the same, only they got more character development that was more or less in step with their depictions in the cartoon.
Why is it all the namefags on this board also seem to probably be furries
Deem Bristow will always be the best Robotnik
Ivo Robotnik sends his shiny metal cock into numerous adventures, dangerous endeavours and risky deals. Ivo is a lover.
Julian Robotnik pets his shiny metal cock in his chair. Julian is a wanker.
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sonic x
Bait aside, I will always have a soft spot for the very first episode of Sonic X, just for that stupid racecar chase scene
>Kids, don't use Formula 1 cars to chase hedgehogs!
Fuck you for reminding me of the only good episode
>think a mixture of meme culture and an aversion to "serious" stories in Sonic after tire fires like Sonic 06 has caused a reversal of opinion.
This is correct.
However, SatAM is the inferior show, memes and popular opinion or not. Its writing is mediocre at the best of times, half the core cast barely exists, the core dynamics erase any sort of tension or development (Robotnik owns pretty much the whole world, so the heroes can never suffer any significant losses or else the show ends), nobody really gets any sort of character arc despite that being the only route the story has to convey progress, the color choices are generally pretty awful, the animation is usually stiff, the sound design is 4Kids TMNT bad if not worse, the recurring gags are unfunny, it just goes on and on.
I feel like anyone who really thinks they enjoy SatAM on its own merits should watch DiC's Double Dragon. It's the same head writers, many of the same actors, a similar animation budget, the same level of adherence to the source material, etc. See what you think of it.
It's bad.
As a kid I liked SatAM better because it was "serious" and felt like a better representation of the games.
But as an adult, I can see the AOSTH world fits the latter criteria a lot better, plus it's just generally more entertaining. SatAM just feels incredibly atonal, like Sonic's in a world he doesn't belong in.
>AOSTH world fits the latter criteria a lot better, plus it's just generally more entertaining.
Explain how
Please, unless of course you're just pulling shit out of your asshole, which you are, then carry on and don't respond to me like you won't
Has music like the games, has absurd unworldly colors and landscape like the games, has a constantly failing enemy that doesn't rule the world, full of wacky robots with personality in their designs, and has Tails actually doing things.
>Has music like the games
It doesn't
>has absurd unworldly colors and landscape like the games
It doesn't
I'm starting to think either you never played the games, or are a complete retard
You sound mad.
Do you not remember the Marble Zone and Star Light Zone?
I liked Double Dragon as a kid, though I never got to play the games until later
Recently it hit me that Billy and Jimmy's cartoon designs were ripped off from Fist of the North Star
both are still sonic so both are still autistic
What's with the vitrolic attitudes? Just have some fun.
I remember when Turtles Forever first came out and people were wishing Sonic did it first so we could see these two go at it
Though of course Long John is dead I think
slap fight
It amused me how the president dressed like he was in the 1800s, and specially his catgirl daughter
>his catgirl daughter
muh childhood crush
AoStH
Look at these two, they're so cute.
...Who did jack shit in the show.
I mean really, thank God for the Archie comic otherwise she would have been utterly worthless.
As a kid? Satam. Through an adult's eyes? Adventures.
OVA is best.
No...?
They're very different shows in style, most people tend to think AoStH is lolsowacky, but if you actually watch it you'd realise that it's really more of an incidental thing; out there things happen but the episodes still follow your basic plot structure for the most part. Robotnik has a plan, he tries to implement it, Sonic must stop him. To say that the show is trying to be like Road Runner is disingenuous, there are elements of RR there, and other Looney Tunes, but really it's a mesh of a lot of old cartoon elements, going all the way back to Felix the Cat and Bimbo. For the most part, AoStH episodes are standard comedy/adventure stories which are painted in an aesthetic of a retro cartoon.
Similarly, SatAM is just your standard drama/adventure/lite-comedy but with a darker brush applied. The reason why people back then said the latter was better was really because we as kids wanted to be seen as 'mature' by rejecting the superficially kiddy show. However as we grow older you realise both are fairly similar once you disassemble them.
She's not doing much in the comics either.
Characters? Setting?
As a kid who didn't see any of the cartoons until after he'd played and beaten Sonic 2, I absolutely felt like Sonic had more substance and story than Mario, and I loved the Mario games. You recurringly fought Robotnik, he shot down (and when I was a kid, I thought had killed) Tails, and then he sent a robot clone at me in space and was too much of a coward to fight me alone? As a kid that shit was serious and personal.
That's ignoring that Sonic 3 & CD only ratcheted things up on the serious scale.
I grew to appreciate AOSTH as I got older, and always watched it since I liked Sonic, but the world seemed empty and it was too much like an episode of Looney Tunes for me. SatAM was much better.
I feel like people who prefer SatAM just have low standards for writing. Not because the writing's bad (it is, but neither show is terribly well written), but because they always seem to praise the writing despite it being the weakest point.
NO BRAGON
This
I think the show is serviceable, but to say it's some sort of masterpiece, avant-garde piece of storytelling is laughable.
I mean it's 90s DiC. Almost none of their shows, especially those based on video games or celebrities, were particularly well-written.
It's obvious they just want to like "mature" shows when one of the episodes involved Sonic racing a robotic Cheetah.
how is this even a question?
sat am is way better!
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YOU LOOK HOT LUCAS!
The greatest Sonic fanboy of all Christian W Chandler preferred the Adventures of Sonic.
I'm surprised Lucas managed to survive for so long and Lucinda remained unmarried for 30 years.
Hitler liked sugar
In all seriousness, people tend to forget that Sonichu is as much to do with Pokemon as it was to do with Sonic. In fact you might argue it has more in common with Pokemon than Sonic (characters based on elements, similar plot structures). Certainly in recent years (Sonic Boom nonwithstanding) Chris has shown that he is more interested in buying Transformers and Lego than he is in Sonic merch. In fact he hasn't even mentioned Sonic Mania or Sonic Forces at all.
I can at least tell you that he hates the best Sonic TV show made so far.
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Technically SatAM does have a lot going for it. Structure, a more dire tone, and memorable and ruthless villains. However, I like Adventure more.
Adventures Robotnik is one of the most entertaining cartoon characters in decades. The expressions, the animation, the god tier voice and laugh, they all are so good that the show is automatically enjoyable. On top of that the animators and voice actors were clearly having fun with a lot of wackiness and excessive humor. Is it a perfect show? Far from it. But is it entertaining? You bet.
I think a lot of Sonic's charm comes from being endearing and full of a genuine effort/heart despite being heavily flawed and that fits Adventures a hell of a lot more than SatAM (which is just kinda boring if you ask me)
>LOLRANDUM the game series
no, that would be Earthworm Jim
and it is all the better for it
its animated series blows all other video game based animated series out of the water
>muh plot
>muh Character development
read a book senpai cartoons are best suited for perfecting the art of the gag, for being to laugh at ourselves through short yet poignant commentary. This is accomplished not through so TL;DR diatribe. but through the visual. which is why Tex Avery is the pineal of western animation
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>all this "le cartoons are meant only for humor and gags XD" bullshit
Yeah, naaaaaah, you're wrong. Why limit the cartoons to just one genre?
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I wonder if this has something to do with this scrapped concept of Sonic having a band, a human girlfriend named Madonna, and there being animal eared girls.
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>Night of the Werehog
I wish Sega and Marza had produced more shorts like that for Sonic games.
nah books are better than cartoons at every way when it comes to humor.
cartoons should stick to the only gimick they have going for them: serial storytelling
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>They are both preferable to Sonic Underground and Sonic X, but Sonic Boom is better than all of them.
/thread
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Who's best Sonic boy and why is it Shard?
I haven't seen SatAM
Can I just say both are better than Underground?
Given that there's no fucking way this show is getting a third Season no matter how great it is, do you think SEGA will try to get another Sonic show going that takes place in the main-Universe?
>You recurringly fought Robotnik, he shot down (and when I was a kid, I thought had killed) Tails, and then he sent a robot clone at me in space and was too much of a coward to fight me alone? As a kid that shit was serious and personal.
Sooo... you thought the games were deeper than they were because you never were able to defeat Mecha-Sonic and find out that Robotnik DOES fight you himself and Tails IS alive. Sheesh. You could've just asked your big brother or cousin to beat the Death Egg Zone for you, like I did.
Damn, that's more lopsided than expected.
>forgetting Man of the Year
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>Character development
Fucking WHERE?
I wanna watch the version of SatAM you guys keep praising. The SatAM I watched never bothered to develop shit, didn't have anything resembling a plot until season 2, and had the most underwhelming finale for an action cartoon I've ever seen.