I find it hilarious how they have managed to kill star-wars as a setting with this one movie. The crux of space-opera is cheap fast travel since space is so big, you need to go from the ice-planet and the desert planet without dying of old age. So you invent a special engine or a wormhole generator or something that does all that. But also ensures that it can't be used as a weapon, by teleporting instantly, or going through another dimension.
What this movie has done, is establish that a hyperdrive can interact with other ships. One of the draws of Star-wars is that so many people have neat little ships to putter around in (people you can identify as and imagine yourself as) that means that with the new hyperdrive canon everyone with a ship, is sitting on a weapon powerful enough to destroy pretty much anything. Everyone. And ships in star-wars are like boats to us. Maybe even cars. Imagine if your car had a hydrogen bomb beside the spare tire? A clump of antimatter in the glovebox?
There will never be another star wars movie wherein there's a big battleship, or battle-station, or massive fleet where you don't go "Why not just hyperspeed-ram it?" And the best part. It's in a movie, not some obscure comic or book. Everyone who has seen the movie has seen the scene. There's no counterargument, because it happened, we saw it. Star-wars has effectively destroyed itself as a semi-believable setting. Because there's no traditional set-up with the big bad fleet and big bad base that can't be ass-raped by a single FTL ship.
The thing is it not only ruins all future SW movies, it also retroactively ruins the past films and makes them all look like idiots.
>A New Hope - "Sir we've worked out the final plan for the assault on the death star and it will be risky and cost many lives but it migh-" "Just Hyperspace-Ram it"
>Empire - "Sir the troops are ready for the ground assault on Hoth, walkers are ready to deploy" "Just Hyperspace-Ram the shield generator from orbit then Hyperspace-ram the rebel base. Boom. All the rebels will be dead before they can evacuate, wars over, and we never had to do a ground assault"
>Jedi - "Sir they built a new death star and it's even bigg-" "Just Hyperspace-Ram it" "But sir its surrounded by a shield from the Endor moo-" "Just hyperspace ram the endor Moon until you take out the shield generator, Ewoks are collateral damage, then hyperspace ram the new death star"
>Phantom Menace - "Annakin you have to take out that droid controller" "Just hyperspace ram it"
>Rogue One - "We have to take down that shield generator!" "Just hyperspace ra- actually you know what were going to just hyperspace ram the death star anyway so we don't even need these stupid plans. Lets get out of here everybody."
>TFA - My god they built an even BIGGER death sta-" "Just hyperspace ram it"
From now on, in every star wars movie ever made, every single time there is a massive fleet, large base or battlestation everyone watching will be thinking. "Why don't they just hyperspace-ram it". Johnson did this to the entire star wars cinematic universe, forever, for the sake of a ten second shot that "looked cool".
Jose Wilson
There's no denying that this scene breaks one of the fundamentals of star wars. But is this going to have to be the accepted headcannon when they inevitably never mention/use it again? So as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the old way hyper-drives worked was that they let you slip into another dimension that ran parallel to reality where the distances between things were shorter. You'd still be travelling the same speed, and I assume using sublight engines to do that, but you'd be travelling a shorter distance to reach your goal quicker. Going off the movies alone, this used to have a spin-up period and then your ship/the world around you would stretch briefly before you entered hyperspace (just a neat visual?). So what if (now) during that brief moment where your ship is stretching it's briefly in reality and in hyperspace at the same time? During that brief moment your ship is actually taking up a much larger(longer?) footprint in reality because it's already partially travelling through hyperspace and gets stretched out like a piece of spaghetti. So Admiral Warning-Hair activates her hyper-drive close to the FO fleet which then phases through them but gets destroyed at the same time by occupying the same space causing a chain reaction as her ship breaks apart and all the debris flies off in separate directions. The debris is still half in hyperspace half in reality at this point so it has the same effect on all the other ships it hits. This would make it so technically you could only use this as a weapon if you were already close to something you wanted to use it against but I guess it doesn't stop anyone from trying to weaponize it by having hyper-drives deliberately malfunction to extend the effect. It also doesn't explain why no one has thought of it before, or why they didn't take down the death stars shields and then sacrifice an x-wing from nearby instead of doing a trench run but it makes it less universe breaking...right?
Camden Taylor
It's been that way since ANH when Han had to hyperdrive it blind and was worried he might go through an asteroid or something. It was reinforced in ESB with an actual asteroid field that they couldn't hyperdrive through. Did you even watch the movies?
Jace Perry
juz durn ur brian of bro it luks cewl
Justin Gray
>ice planet or desert planet You forgot salt planet.
Adrian Myers
no one would be using hyperdrives if you could hit stuff in real-space, it would be far too dangerous.
Christopher Peterson
...Because hitting something when going lightspeed fucks YOU up. Not the other way around. Heck, even space dust will tear your ship to shreds.
Nolan Edwards
They were worried about going through a star, not an asteroid. Stars have enough mass to cast a shadow in hyperpsace.
Besides, if it had always been this way like you are saying, why didn't they hyperspace ram the first death star, or the second death star, or the third death star, or the base on Hoth, or the base on the Endor moon, or the shield generator in rogue one, or the driod controller base in phantom menace? In every case it would have saved thousands of lives that were lost during the attacks.
Eli Martinez
Holds was able to destroy the ship that way because it had a hyperdrive tracker that was tracking the resistance.
Only brainlets failed to realise this.
Logan Hill
It's a collision. It fucks up both.
Leo Price
haha, and the other 15 star destroyers that were also destroyed by the hyperspace ram?
Christian Wood
>The thing is it not only ruins all future SW movies, it also retroactively ruins the past films and makes them all look like idiots. Yeah, I think introducing all those new force powers in the prequels were a terrible idea. Would've solved so many issues in the original if he just used the force run or flipped around like a ballerina.
Joseph Johnson
They were caught up in the explosion.
Did you even watch the film?
Caleb Ramirez
They actually were not, at all. The explosion of the Supremacy was actually quite limited.
The hyperspeed ram appears to impart it's energy in a cone thousands of miles long, so even ships that were no where near the Supremacy were hit by the energy from the ram. It actually makes it an even more powerful and universe breaking weapon, since anyone with a hyperdrive on either side of a battle can use this attack at anytime, instantly as long as they are willing to sacrifice themselves.
Essentially from this point forward in star wars, all ships on either side of a battle with hyperdrive (so nearly all of them) have a one shot cannon which hits about as hard as the cannon from the death star that they can trigger at any time.
Angel Rogers
Completely incorrect
Adrian Robinson
I even provided you with video evidence sir, but perhaps in your rage and desperation you no long even believe your own eyes.
Zachary Walker
It's supposed to be debris going FTL/very fast hitting the shit behind. Not a cone of energy.
Isaiah Brown
This is why charted hyperspace lanes are critical, and why only truly desperate people would risk navigating blindly through uncharted space.
Kevin King
If you watch the video, they are not hit by debris.
If anything they appear to be hit by a fucking Kamehameha.
Benjamin Cooper
care to slow down the footage and show me the exact frame where you can see that it's not debris moving faster than light? if it was moving that fast it would look like a beam of energy or something anyway.
Chase Johnson
>a beam of energy >beam of energy
Indeed... indeed.
Nolan Hughes
I wouldn’t bother m8.
His tiny, mra brain can’t keep up.
Anthony Davis
...
Brody Rivera
shit did i just have a whole argument with you over semantics? i'm sorry user. it's still debris though...technically.
Henry Perez
...
Parker Miller
it blew my mind when i found out the trench run wasn't along the equator but near the top running vertically
Jonathan Davis
You... you understand that there is no difference right? Between a cone of hyperspace energy and a cone of invisible debris moving at lightspeed charged with kenetic energy?
Like with regards to how this tactic breaks every future large scale space battle in the star wars universe the two are interchangeable.
Charles Jackson
The implication is they'd get fucked up. Not that they'd fuck up the asteroid they hit and the entire belt along with it.
There's absolutely no reason for the empire or the rebellion to not to use this technology to fuck shit up.
Nathaniel Mitchell
dude just switch off your brain bro xD
Jeremiah Gomez
Isn’t it light speed? Why do so many keep saying it’s FTL?
Ryder Stewart
Yes. Hence the realization that we were arguing over your wording. You still specified that it wasn't debris though so you're not innocent in this.
Leo Gray
Because travelin between planets would take at least months/years even at lightspeed
Jason Ramirez
Because the Rebels were led by hot-headed men who wanted to prove their heroism in a showy way. It took the cool rationality of a female leader to think this up.
Jaxon White
Pretty sure the characters say lightspeed. Of all the headcanon out there, pretending it’s FTL is one of the weirdest.
>Galactic Patrol tells the story of Kim Kinnison, a Lensman who jettisons in a space lifeboat with a data spool containing the secret of the enemy's ultimate weapon, the Grand Base. He jets around the galaxy in his speeder, gets caught in tractor beams, passes his ship off as a chunk of loose metal, eludes the bad guy's star cruisers by tearing off into the fourth dimension and finally destroys the enemy base in his one-man fighter. During his training he wears a flight helmet with the blast shield down, but he can still "see" what's going on using his special powers. The Lensmen's mystical powers are almost certainly a strong inspiration for The Force: In an early draft of the Star Wars script Lucas calls the good side of the Force "Arislan" and the bad side the "Bogan." In Smith's Lensmen books the benevolent creators of the Lens are the "Arisians," the bad guys the "Boskone."
>In Gray Lensman, there are two planets which are destroyed by the Galactic Patrol in its relentless war on Boskonia. One, the home of a fortified base headed by Jalte the Kalonian, is destroyed when the Patrol hurls a sphere of negative matter in its path, consuming the world entirely.
Blake James
That is not what they said but continue with your head cannon you dork
Julian Adams
Well han solo says the falcon makes .5 past lightspeed, whatever that means. Its all pretty much just magic bullshit
Angel Bell
>Immediately afterward, the Patrol's fleet proceeds to Jarnevon, headquarters to the "Council of Boskone"--the home of the monstrous Eich and a major player in the Boskonian hierarchy. This planet is crushed between two entire planets, which are hurled in opposing directions so as to converge upon Jarnevon and wipe it out. The result of so much matter being annihilated is the creation of a second star where Jarnevon once was.
>Hosnian Prime and all other planetary objects orbiting the system's sun were destroyed by a phantom energy beam[2] upon the firing of the First Order's Starkiller Base superweapon in 34 ABY.[3] Due to the nature of phantom energy, the destruction of the system was visible across the galaxy[2] through a rip in sub-hyperspace.[9] It was witnessed by those present in Maz Kanata's castle on the planet Takodana.[3] The beam caused Hosnian Prime's core to ignite in a pocket nova, and temporarily became a binary system.[2]
>In Second Stage Lensmen, Kinnison promptly realizes that these superweapons can be turned against the Patrol and Prime Base... so they immediately set to work upon creating another superweapon, a laser which harnesses the sun's energy to wipe out any fleet of ships (or even any planets) attacking the solar system.
Easton Ramirez
>Later on, this technology too is acquired by the enemy--so Kinnison counters by developing an unstoppable technique of crushing enemy planets between two other planets from another dimension, both of which travel faster than light. Fortunately for Earth, this comes very near to the end of the series, by which point the war against Boskonia is almost over.
>The Children of the Lens are the culmination of the Arisian breeding program, and are to be their weapons in the final assault on Eddore. The book introduces the five Kinnison children. Born with the abilities that Second Stage Lensmen possess only through years of intensive training, they become the Third Stage Lensmen with abilities that even the Arisians do not fully understand. Here, battles between massive fleets and super-weapons no longer have the main role. The battles may be just as intense, but most are more low-key, with brains and subtle maneuvering being more important than who has the biggest fleets and most powerful weapons.
>After undergoing advanced training, they are described as "third-stage" Lensmen, transcending humanity with mental scope and perceptions impossible for any normal person. Although newly adult, they are now expected to be more competent than the Arisians and to develop their own techniques and abilities "about which we [the Arisians] know nothing".
>The key discovery comes when they try mind-merging. They discover they can merge their minds to effectively form one mental entity called the Unit. The Arisians ...state that they, who created it, are themselves almost entirely ignorant of its powers.
>Children of the Lens, together with the mental power of unknown millions of Lensmen of the Galactic Patrol, constitute Arisians' intended means to destroy the Eddorians and make the universe safe for Civilization. The Galactic Patrol, summoned to work together in this way for the first time, contains billions of beings who in total can generate immense mental force.
Chase Clark
What the fuck are you taking about All Disney employees please leave
Noah Cruz
Why was Holdo even on the ship? All ships in that universe should have decent autopilot and even if it didn't all it was doing was moving in one direction, just leaving it heading in a straight line shouldn't even require autopilot.
Parker Torres
how do you know it's energy and not shrapnel?
either side would have to improve their tractor beam technology and maybe some kind of repulsor beam technology to be able to prevent movements like this
Luis Gutierrez
>In an early draft of the Star Wars script Lucas calls the good side of the Force "Arislan" and the bad side the "Bogan."
kek wtf
Joshua Russell
It took out the biggest ship ever built in the star wars universe (62 kilometers wide) like it was made out of styrofoam, then shattered 15 star destroyers behind it, an entire fleet.
You think a repulsor beam could stop that?
Matthew Sanders
...
Levi Martin
It's the same principle as why jet liners are not commonly used as weapons, even though they make effective ones. It just comes down to: why would you want to?
Not many people are fans of suicide/sacrifice and destroying a large vessel to boot.
Nathan Collins
Do deflector shields not work against this? I thought that was one of their purposes, to prevent hyperspeed ramming along with blaster fire.
I guess not.
Isaac Nelson
Shut the fuck up. Stop making these threads. Just shut up.
Joseph Turner
It is almost universally agreed that the prequels are shit, and that they retroactively ruin the OT. So I’m really really hoping this post of yours was simply made in agreement of this, rather than as some “gotcha” type deal.
Sebastian Jones
Kamikaze planes were weaponized as soon as the technology was available and dominate warfare to this day, we just call them missiles.
Benjamin Powell
The Supremacy had it's shields up, as shown in the movie. It didn't stop the hyperspeed ram at all. The shields were obliterated.
Besides that, in TFA Han hyperspace jumps past Starkiller bases shields. So it wouldn't have helped anyway.
Ryder Miller
>tfw not in the bogan sheev timeline
James Nelson
Why wouldn't you sacrifice one person and one ship to win a war in which thousands of ships and millions of people will die.
One hyperspace ram obliterates an entire fleet. You saw it in the movie, we all did.
Samuel Barnes
Holy Kek
Blake Cruz
we don't use jet liners because we essentially use space rockets as weapon, you know, big bunry thing that makes tube fly fast and deliver payload at location.
>manned missiles with jet engine top kek
why don't they just hijack an asteroid, 1km x 1km, attach a hyper drive and smash it in to anything? an asteroid that size would fuck up any planet at normal speed, just imagine what it could do going at light speed
Easton Gray
people have been trying to make 'aerial torpedoes' for basically as long as we could make things fly. here's an early unsuccessful american example from 1916, the curtiss-sperry flying bomb.
Adam Jenkins
Hello there, my good friend friend
Daniel Brooks
actually now that i think about it, a better example is operation aphroditie. a b-17 was fitted with a crude remote control system and packed with explosives, intended to be used as massive bunker-busters
Jayden Phillips
>in TFA Han hyperspace jumps past Starkiller bases shields.
I forgot about that. That might be even worse really.
Ian Torres
If cloaked ships can slip past the biggest armed vessel in the galaxy and land inside it undetected as one did in TLJ why not always use cloaked ships for all military operations?
Carter Thompson
Yup. It doesn't even matter for something like the second death star that had a shield projected around it. They showed in TFA that shields don't show up in hyperspace. So just jump inside the shield, then hyperspace ram the death star. No risky mission to the moon, no huge space battle costing thousands of lives. Just one ship and one droid flying it if you don't want to do the admiral Pink-Hair sacrifice.
They literally broke space combat in SW.
Nathaniel Hughes
It originally didn't, because the interaction was only via gravity. A planet or black hole doesn't even notice the tiny gravitational field of a space ship.
Bentley James
The real question is; if cloaked ships can do that then every time there is any large fleet why not use a cloaked ship to get close and hyperspeed ram it?
Angel Ward
Pretty sure it's just a term for lightspeed or faster, they just make it simple. We know some ships are faster than others so obviously someone is going FTL.
Jordan Torres
This is intentional. Only nerds care about plot holes. The movie deliberately makes no sense to reassure the normalfags that they can watch it without being nerds. You see the same technique used in MCU movies. Normalfags will only tolerate "nerd shit" if it's insincere. BvS took itself 100% seriously and normalfags hated it.
If you are reading this thread you are undoubtedly a nerd. You are not the target audience for nu-Wars. Hyperspeed ramming is not a mistake, it's normalfags laughing at you, and you don't have the social awareness to notice.
Jason Brown
Are you fucking serious?
>what is a missile
Andrew Morales
They couldn't hyperdrive in the asteroid field because the hyperdrive was still broken, you literally see han trying to fix it when they first enter the firld, which pulls han back to piloting duty
You idiot
Carter Edwards
That's not how it works, things of sufficient mass drag you out of hyperspace, being pulled out in a black hole or a star is going to kill you. There were even ships that generated an artificial hyperspace shadow to knock ships out of hyperspace so they could be caught.
Just because it was dangerous to use hyperspace blind doesn't mean it would have the absurd, world breaking results TLJ went with - if that's what happened it'd be the Space Warfare equivalent of gunpowder, it'd revolutionize everything - you'd be launching things through hyperspace all day.
Jonathan Edwards
Its not headcanon its literally canon in both old and Disney.
Nolan Garcia
To be fare he explains why he can get past. The shields they used were "fractional rate" or something so it only stopped objects going slower than light which might make sense on such a large planet sized object. You would need a large object to ram it. But it does beg the question as to why they didnt strap all their hyperdrives to a dead planet/moon/large rock/shitty huge ship and hyperspace ram
Ryan Ross
I have many filthy normie friends and they all hated it. One of them even literally said later "if that works like that then why didn't they just ram the death star?"
Even normies know it's stupid.
Cooper Russell
>sacrifice
LOOK SIR, DROIDS
Ryan Walker
>it'd be the Space Warfare equivalent of gunpowder, it'd revolutionize everything It's worse than that, because everybody already has hyperdrives. It's like somebody figuring out a way to shift gears in a car that makes it explode like a nuclear bomb.
Colton Adams
>It's like somebody figuring out a way to shift gears in a car that makes it explode like a nuclear bomb
Exactly. And that's the big problem. Nearly every ship in SW has a hyperdrive. Even ones as small as an X-Wing.
John Davis
What you're doing is seeding a falsehood in morons.
I know its DAILY PASTA, but fast travel ALWAYS COULD interact with anything. The very first movie they're trying to get out of dodge and Luke whines 'I thought you said this hunk of junk was fast,' or some shit. Han says 'kid, the computer needs to plot a course or we'll go crashing into a planet,' or some other shit like that. They should have shown her overriding the computer, but it was always there. If it wasn't then there'd be no danger in them using hyperspeed to get past the shield on death star 3.
Ian Green
Holy shit. The impact blew fragments of the supremecy towards the following ships AT HYPERSPEED. You guys aren't even good nerds.
Michael White
The danger was always to the ship in hyperspace, not the object (eg. planet, black hole) in real space casting a mass shadow into hyperspace.
William Thompson
HELLO PRE-DISNEY EU LOREFAGS I HAVE A QUESTION
Is this what the Hyperspace War was like?
Charles Foster
They were talking about a high gravity object like a star casting a shadow into hyperspace, not an actual physical object.
Please learn the literal basics of hyperspace pretend-science before you strut in here acting like you know what you are talking about!
Leo Perez
No. It was just a bunch of Jedi killing Sith pretty much.
Evan Clark
He simply says he needs precise calculations because otherwise they'll be inside of something else when they drop out oh hyperspace.
Hyperspace was never simply going really fast, it was essentially accessing another dimension. If it were simply traveling somewhere really fast then it would be mostly useless in star wars as you wouldn't be able to react to anything in your way and you'd die easily.
That's why it's a called "hyperSPACE" not "hyperSPEED"
Jaxson Brown
ye but it looookd kool
Colton Lewis
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, Rian. The ability to destroy a fleet with one ship is insignificant next to the power of the Force, which is female.
Samuel Howard
As dumb as it is, it at least still makes a little bit of sense within the context of hyperspace as a wormhole-type jumping tech (skipping over space itself) instead of an invincible light speed battering ram that is displayed in TLJ.
Gabriel Russell
Because the reason Solo and Finn went it was to rescue Rey before the Resistance blew it up.
Mason Murphy
It still bothers me how Han manually hit a switch to exit hyperspace and magically ended up right where he needed to in the atmosphere. You would literally need the Flash level reflexes to pull that off.
Robert Harris
>You would literally need the Flash level reflexes to pull that off