Here's Rian's response to all your manbabies

Here's Rian's response to all your manbabies.
He's 100% right, you know. Star Wars has to change.

While TLJ is garbage, I can't disagree with the guy. You can only have so many kids escape a desert planet to blow up a Death Star before people lose interest. And considering that they have a whole galaxy at their disposal, it's fucking retarded that they keep returning to the well instead of having the balls to go in new and interesting ways.

Unironically agree with him

he's right you know
>Sup Forumstards BTFO

>but it started a conversation

> I was brought in to turn Star Wars into forgettable schlock like Pirates of the Caribbean

I really hate how they armor themselves with smugness.

> If people aren't upset I'm not doing my job.

No people are upset because you suck at your job!

No, because destroying one of the most iconic film heroes with a poorly explained flashback doesn't make something new and exciting, it makes it shit. If he wanted to really take a risk, Rey should have joined Kylo. Just subverting expectations alone is not enough when the execution is garbage.

You grow but killing the past.

pottery.

>but I do think the conversations that are happening were going to have to happen at some point

The conversations about how hyper-space ramming and flying like super man through space is really stupid?

He's not wrong in it changing, but does it have to change _Right now_? Does it have to change immediately after the previous director set up a bunch of plot points for the second movie? If he wanted to change it, couldn't he have left it open for the third movie to be the big change instead of his movie just throwing all of the layups out the window?

He never did answer how Finn was okay, why Luke would make a map, why no one used the x-wing, why Kylo Ren even bothered with the Darth Vader mindset if he was going to betray snoke, etc. etc.

All in all it just feels like he's using "Change" as a shield from criticism because he doesn't want to own up to the fact that he changed it, but not into something coherent with the other movies. Like he somehow forgot that there was a movie that came before and that there's going to be a movie that comes after. He left no layups for the next director to take. The next movie will probably feel fairly standalone because, by changing, he took out a lot of the mysteries that people were expecting answers for.

he had a whole ready-made universe to play with. They could have (should have) left the old heroes out entirely instead of making them clowns and shitting on their legacy

And what the seguels changed? Fucking nothing the main villain is still a black knight who is a good boy inside and his boss an old deformed space wizard leading a facist group.

You don't have to desecrate the past to move forward.

its not a very good movie

all the characters are weak

its worse than the prequels

Why didn't they change it by actually writing something than empire vs rebels 2.0

They could have made up anything but what they created is garbage.

tfw he's going to end up way more hated than lucas

>It's over Rian, I have the higher RT score.

NO
FUCKING
SHIT

EVERYONE WANTED SOMETHING DIFFERENT INSTEAD OF THE FORCE AWAKENS
>b-b-but Disney had to play it safe
FUCK OFF. NO ONE WHO USED THIS EXCUSE CAN NOW DO A 180 AND DEFEND THE LAST JEDI
>b-b-but it’s different so it’s good
>b-b-but it’s time to move on
WHICH IS WHAT WE WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE BUT BECAUSE LUCASFILM IS FULL OF BUMBLING VAGINAS WE DONT EVEN HAVE THE WHOLE TRILOGY PLANNED AGEAD OF TIME AND AS A RESULT HAVE SHITTY MOVIES THAT MAKE THE PREQUELS LOOK GOOD.

WHO FUCKING CARES RIAN IS RIGHT? MAYBE HE SHOULD PRACTICE WHAT HE PREACHES INSTEAD OF GIVING US THIS DRIVEL FOR SUBVERSIONS SAKE. A FUCKING BUGGY, RUSHED, INCOMPLETE VIDEO GAME DID A BETTER JOB THAN RIAN, OR ANY FUTURE STAR WARS DIRECTOR WHILE KATHLEEN IS HEAD OF LUCASFILM, COUKD EVER HOPE TO ACHIEVE. YOURE RIGHT IM FUCKING MAD.

He didn't offer anything new. At all. He just ""deconstructed"" the previous films. Deconstruction, in the context of movies, is just a synonym for tearing down the work of other better, more creative people when you have nothing yourself to offer. Burning down the very platform on which you've been given to work isn't clever.

Because by "change" they mean more feminism, Mary Sues, nonsensical plots and killing off any character who might be interesting

This is precisely the problem.

Disney views SW not as a story (something which needs a beginning, middle, and end; and internal consistency between these), but as a property (something to simply be exploited for as long as it can remain profitable).

Why not make something new? No legacy, free to follow your own vision

What the fuck is this stupid millennial bullshit? "Star Wars has to change". Why? No it doesn't. Just make sure it stays compelling, change doesn't necessarily mean good or compelling as is evidenced by TLJ. Turning Star Wars into a shitty comedy quipfest is not a good change. People like Star Wars for Star Wars.
What a colossal retard.

Anyone claiming that the seguels gave us anything "new" is simply a retard.

Sorry but if you believe that the last jedi is not empire strikes back all over again you are mothefucking retarded.

Kotor
starring Idris Elba

this sounds like what a (((political))) say trying to justify mass third world immigration

>Turning Star Wars into a shitty comedy quipfest is not a good change
I hate the prequels too, user

And Will Smith

The original Pirates film was solid, and even when expanded into a trilogy it was fine. Not on the level of the Star Wars OT, but still good fun and a decent story.

The problem came when they continued to tried to milk it past the end of the part of the story audiences cared about.

They're doing the same thing here: they're trying to milk a franchise after the story ended. The time to make a coherent sequel trilogy came and went at least two decades ago.

>prequels
>quippy
ESB is more comedic than the prequels combined

Yeah, that slapstick scene with R2D2 in ROTS definitely never happened.

The prequels were pretty shit but they were shit for different reasons. They had cheesy writing but it was consistent, it made in-world sense, the world building was amazing and all characters stayed consistent. The rules within the world were also established and stayed consistent. Were they mostly boring with some really bad acting and cheesy lines? Definitely. Were they memorable? Yes. All the fights had a lot of weight behind them, there were even memorable lines and kino moments. But above all, it was still Star Wars. Nu-Star Wars is not Star Wars.

>series built entirely on nostalgia needs to move forward
>this kills the franchise
Yeah, good luck with that ya fucking mong.

The conversation that was going to happen:

Is the new trilogy bad?

It's happening.

Wtf do people mean when they say "having the conversation"

why didnt he just make a good movie?

>it's time to move foward

>makes another generic rebels vs empire snorefest

>doesn't even explain anything that's happening or happened or give a single diversity hire actor a competent backstory or motivation

Well disguised shill thread, trying to turn the discussion towards "change" rather than teh fact that the film was incoherent and badly edited.

>go into library with petrol can
>burn it down
"we have to move forward"

>turning star wars into emotionless tensionless marvel shlock

wow, thanks rian! what a bold new direction!

>If he wanted to really take a risk, Rey should have joined Kylo.
Yes, and then done an ending either where the infighting destroys them, or where they're taken out by the normal characters because they're not actually all that great. Like how Sheev would've gone down regardless of what Luke did, because the Death Star was still blown up.

Who cares, its nice of him to respond and say that there are legit critics of the movie without the mouse's damage control of saying the movie is great and the only people who hate it are russian bots

He has a valid point. Killing off or otherwise leaving behind the old characters would have to be done eventually. If you want to turn Star Wars into another 6 main movies and who knows how many spinoff movies, then new things will have to be introduced and old things will have to be left behind. Star Wars can't be the Skywalker saga forever.

However, although Rian had good intentions, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The logic behind his motivations is sound, but his execution is horribly flawed. Star Wars is a beloved franchise that has decades of worldbuilding behind it; the transition from the old series to the new series has to be extremely delicately handled. If you want to bring in characters and events from the old series, they need to be given a proper sendoff so that the new characters and lore can naturally evolve without seeming forced or being unfairly compared to the past. Meanwhile, your new lore, characters, and events need to be fresh and interesting enough to stand on their own two feet and make fans excited about where the series is going.

Rian, and to a lesser extent JJ, failed utterly to both cleanly disconnect their series from the OT, and to build a new and compelling world for their new series. Characters and lore from the OT are brought in to attract a nostalgic audience but are then poorly used and poorly written. They even brought back the Rebels vs Empire dynamic, just to continue pandering to nostalgia. Meanwhile, the new characters and plots they DID add were sorely lacking in many aspects. Rey is a Mary Sue, Snoke never actually got any development, Finn is just kind of there. Everything that wasn't recycled from the OT was simply mediocre.

Tl;dr Changing up the series is fine if you tastefully replace the old stuff with good and compelling new stuff. Rian butchered the old stuff while replacing it with nothing of any real value.

>Grow
>Move forward
>Stay vital

It has remained vital for 40 odd years without needing you to grow it or move it forward.

Not only that, the entire reason it's vital and the entire reason they spent billions of dollars buying it is because of the nostalgia factor. Growing...sure. More of what people love is what people want. Moving forward? Maybe, if you are still delivering on the sorts of stories, characters and aesthetics that people love it for. If you're moving forward into new territory, you deserve to be shit on, because you're a dumb, lazy parasite who can't create his own content and instead hijacks someone else's.

Anakin kills a bunch of kids hahaha hilarious

It's a euphemism for euthanasia, time to ''put to sleep'' the franchise.

>move forward
>by essentially regressing back to state of the galaxy during 'a new hope'
>'empire' vs 'rebels', again but with worse storytelling

>Before people lose interest

How much money did The Force Awakens make again?

It seems people's interest was held for 40 plus years.

>having the balls to go in new and interesting ways

That's what E.U. is for. It's a shame a useless cunt like Kennedy is running the show and wasting the opportunity.

He's implying that those that have a problem with the movie aren't ready to have the "conversation" regarding the new, enlightened direction for Star Wars. It's just shit shaming tactics.

This is the heart of it.

>muh risk
>muh new
>muh change
>muh different

Sure.

But Muh Shit sort of negates any positives you could get from this factors.

>He took a risk!

Yeah, and he failed. That's why it's called a risk.

No problem though because Yoda made sure Rey grabbed the 'Holocaust History Facts' books.

Precisely.

>It needs to change

>Meanwhile I'm perpetuating exactly the same story/set up from the OT and including all the same characters

If you wanted change, you should have changed it. A new trilogy and story set in the same Universe. Not some lazy, half assed continuation of the OT (that essentially negates the OT because you reset all the pieces)

Diversity was a mistake

He's right, it will change, by dying.

It's stock standard SJW twitter talk.

>Gotta have the conversation
>Change happens, always

>Except for change I don't like. That's Russian Hackerz.

>starwars has to grow and move forward
>this is what he thinks growing and moving forward is
> ITS GOOD BECAUSE ITS DIFFERENT
Every time

I don't blame Rian at all to be honest. The building blocks he got from TFA were utter shit and really, executive meddling was probably pretty overbearing on him compared to someone Disney could trust to pump out milquetoast garbage people will flock to like JJ.

>grow

Good thing he killed that plant before it had a chance to grow, then.

Must star wars change with half-assed shitty writing?
Man Disney shills are fucking pathetic

>the oldest story every told
>the hero's journey
>has to change
>because in the modern world, heroes have no agency, never succeed, the past should be forgotten, blind faith in leadership and subjective truth are far more important values

And people still wonder how the Third Way came to power.

This, TLJ was actually pretty good in some points, TFA was absolute shit in all points.

But he recycled the same shit as other stars wars and kept introducing cliche characters.
People who think he did something new and original are delusional.

Something new and ballsy would have been to turn rei evil or introduce a decent villain.

I'm so happy battlestar hasn't been ruined for me by shit like this

>he building blocks he got from TFA were utter shit

He wrote the script before TFA

they're at the bargaining stage right now

Noone has a problem with change they have a problem with plot points that just fart out like a whoopie cushion.
>it has to change
>its still about empire vs rebels, there are storm troopers and space battles with teh same ships from the OT and nothing new
>theres a deathstar
>the main characters are jedi and sith
Fuck off, they say they want to take it in a different direction but actually dont. Instead of a new war with the empire which makes the struggle of the OT redundant why wasnt the new trilogy about something like a new republic living in peace, but there is a secret order looking for jedi so they can rise up again as the sith, and Rey is on their list, there are no death stars or large scale armies, its more small scale and personal between small groups of people like a secret war. This isnt different its just vastly disappointing when plot points are just dropped. I mean, I have absolutely no interest in the next movie, none at all, there is no plot points I want to see touched upon and concluded, Rey WILL beat Kylo and he will be see the light in the end, same as in the OT, I know how this story ends and theres nothing else to hold on for.

His point isn't wrong

But Super Leia, Skyping via the Force,
force lighting from dead ghosts, holographing to other planets and dying from sitting on a rock.

His points are good, he just made a shitty movie outside of the kylo and rey stuff.

>Move forward
>Include gender politics that will become dated after this fad dies

Nah, fuck off, Rian.

Lipstick. Pig.

>“The Last Jedi” director Rian Johnson said that was the first big hurdle of writing the script — why was Luke on that island and why won’t he leave?
>“I had to figure out something that made sense, and you don't know much about where's Luke's head is at coming out of ‘The Force Awakens,’ Johnson told Business Insider. “For me growing up, I know Luke as a hero. I know that he must think he's doing the right thing by taking himself out of the equation, and that means he thinks the best thing for the galaxy is that he's not a part of this and, by extension, that the Jedi are not a part of this. So that leads you down a certain path.”

No it doesn't. GREAT movies are great movies regardless of what era or time they come from. I can list so many movies that are still hugely regarded as amazing films now and it has nothing to do with "change" ... it has to do with making an amazing film and Rian Johnson blows at it. He had this produced agenda to force an SJW issue with everything which is becoming more important than the actors talents and storytelling. There have been powerful "Person of Color" movies that weren't listed like that because they stood on their own 2 feet. There have been movies with strong female protagonists but not because the movie or critics pushed it ... because the actress was fucking amazing and the story was awesome.

People nowadays are sheep and are supporting SJW issues as more important than an actual good movie.

what did he mean by this

>muh new vision for the franchise
>muh we must let go of the past and make shitty magical scifi that's Star Wars in name only (SWINO)

If Disney's/JJ's/Rian's vision was any good, you would not be hearing as much backlash. Okay, so you want to move the series forward, past the Skywalkers. Okay, sounds logical so far. But then they make decisions like, thoroughly humiliate and tear down Luke in ways never before thought possible in a "Lucasfilm". Invent a bland Mary Sue protagonist whose sole defining characteristics are (1) femininity and (2) a totally unexplained and jarring-within-the-context-of-the-established-series ability with the Force that comes to her with little to no training. Hire two different directors with completely different ideas of how the trilogy should go and don't obligate them to work together to come up with a coherent framework BEFORE filming even begins. There are so many other things but I am just wasting time. Point is that Disney has made so many strange, illogical decisions with this franchise in such short of a time it's baffling. If Kennedy doesn't get fired soon I don't know what will do it.

Easy bro, they are just flicks

/thread

Pretty much all of this.

I actually agree with him as well but there’s a way of doing it without the hamfistes social justice warrior and femanist agenda stuff.

The irony here is it’s obvious they don’t have a vision there making it up as they go along. Disney bought lucasfilm in 2012 they rushed force awakens into development literally a week after the lucasfilm purchase and set a summer 2015 release date before delaying it to Christmas that year. This trilogy was fucked from the start.

>growing and move forward
>he thinks this means to leave your identity and do something radical
>like being a tranny

hmmm

It didn't need to grow or move forward you buzzwordking faggot. You just needed to tell a good story.

>i-its good that i made a shitty movie that ruins the original trilogy and bastardizes a pop culture icon i-it was bound to happen a-anyway1!!1

Progressivism in a nutshell

Change is fine when it adds something, especially something good, but TLJ didn't really do that. It feels like there is even less story to tell after the movie than there was before it. Changes and subverting expectations are supposed to open up a lot of new paths, but the set up for the 3rd movie feels even more limited than the set up after Force Awakens.

I mean in Empire they changed what people thought of the series and subverted expectations, but it also opened up so many new paths and questions. The force and Jedi aren't what we thought they were with Yoda, Vader is Luke's father, Luke lost his hand, Han and Leia romance, is Han Dead or can they get him back, and how do the rebels recover from this defeat and the Empire seems even stronger.

TLJ all you really have left is Rey confronting Kylo again and one or both of them dying. That is kind of it. Luke is dead, the rebels have regressed terribly, Carrie Fisher is dead now despite Leia being the only main character from the OT still alive, Rey's family are nobodies and is a dead end story, Finn feels irrelevant, and Snoke was killed off and never really developed into anything interesting.

It usually means so we can publicly talk about difficult topics, load the "conversation" with shills and false flaggers, and use social pressure and shaming to force people to take our side of the argument or risk becoming ostracized.

>He's 100% right, you know. Star Wars has to change.
Yeah back into something good.

People that liked the old Battlestar Galactica cried feminism back when the reboot was done

Since they literally changed men characters into women (and Asian women)

But it was a good show (first two seasons anyway), and the original BSG was actually pretty bad, so it was fine

But BSG is feminist throughout

I haven't seen TLJ yet, but people are complaining that the movie is too different, while they complained that TFA is too similar

Make up your mind what you actually want, people

Sup Forums will always cry, no matter what the movie actually delivers.

I would have killed Leia in this movie and Luke in the next.
But the lack of world building is appaling

He's an idiot, you can't grow if you destroy or ignore the foundation.
Moron

>he thinks the best thing for the galaxy is that he's not a part of this and, by extension, that the Jedi are not a part of this.
Fuck you, Rian.

If he didn't desecrate the past, JJ would just go straight back to it in the next one

It's different because it's boring. It's a weird combination of very slow and dragging and rushed. The good bits are greatly truncated to make way for extremely dull side plots involving protagonists introduced just for this movie.

That's probably because you're one of those shallow people who's bought the mentality of iconoclasm the Left peddles today. The ideas, products, entertainment, and philosophies they espouse are garbage and they know it. The only way their shit finds an audience and paying customer base is if they burn down everything that came before and justify it behind mealy-mouthed platitudes about spurious interpretations of "progress."

It was just super weird when she came back to life. I thought "ok she died, that was quite a bold move but also a good one in context". Then she flies back into the ship and is offscreen for the rest of the movie. I mean why write it that way? What was the point of blowing her our into space then un-blowing her back in from space in that fashion?

It's not different, it's reactionary troll. "Since you didn't like it too similar, fuck you and everything that made SW into what you love".

Trust me, if they had turned Ren to the light side and then Sneed had got himself together revealing himself as Plagueis, defeating both characters forcing them to a desperate retreat while Luke sacrificed himself to rescue them, people would be looking forward to EPIX, but he literally had made a mission for himself to ruin SW for as many people as he humanly could.

That's because the people in charge of it are incompetent morons who can only ape what came before or mindlessly destroy it.

Why do people keep saying this shit is going in a new direction? Two of the biggest plot points were "Villain reveals the secret of the Hero's parents" and "Villain kills master to save the Hero."

Keep hoping against hope that you get that trilogy, Rian!

Good point. But the movie was still shit