Im amazed how autists STILL dont understand how he lost against Rey. He had just killed his dad and was unbalanced and distracted by it. He had also been shot by Chewbacca (in other scenes those blasts make people with armor on fly back)In that confused mental and emotional state he was suddenly thrown into a duel with his waifu (who he clearly didnt want to hurt) its simple math
>inb4 what proof do you have he didnt want to hurt her!
Literally moments before fighting Rey, Kylo stomps on Finn. Go watch the scene and notice the difference between how he charges at Finn and how he fights Rey, the first half of his fight with Rey he is strictly in defensive mode, not even swinging, just blocking her hits and running away from her, even near the end of the fight he is still swinging AROUND her (look at the video FFS, he doesnt aim at her a single strike), all while pleading with her to join him. Even when she first injures him he pauses and doesnt attempt to strike her back
Cooper Morris
How did Rey pull the lightsaber towards her, while he was pulling it, with no prior training? She learned the Force really existed like 5 minutes ago.
Tyler Wood
That's not the only reason for her being a Mary Sue. She can expertly fly the Falcon despite never flying it before, she has force powers like Force Pull and Mind Control even though she's had no training and didn't even know these things existed, she can wield a lightsaber expertly after 5 minutes of spinning around with one while Luke watches her, oh and let's not forget the fact that she canswim despite growing up on a desert fucking planet. Weak b8ing shill desu. 2/10.
Jacob Sullivan
Even if what you say is true, there are many more examples of her being a Mary Sue that cannot be defended, but you know this already.
Isaac Rodriguez
why do you keep making these threads?
Ayden Wood
literally my first Star Wars thread that i have ever made
Eli Baker
Clarity of mind and focus. Also the Force chose her. It brought her to the lightsaber in the first place. Literally passing her the role that Luke held before
The Force is a sentient thing with its own will.
>never having flown it
That's an assumption. You don't know what she's done while growing up
>Force powers with no training
All Force users pick things up. Anakin was raising podracers which no human should be able to do. Luke had a day's worth of training with Obi Wan and Force manipulated his torpedoes. Nevermind learning to pull on his own
>expertly wield a lightsaber
Hardly. Compare Kylo dueling three dudes while she fights one in their scene. And she has experience fighting
Joseph Kelly
>I'm the best pilot in the world >I'm the only human who can pilot a podracer >my midichlorian count is higher than yodas! >oops, I just blew up the Federation's capital ship by mistake XD >the queen of Naboo fell in love with me :P
yet Sup Forums will never complain about Anakin because he's male
Elijah Williams
People have moaned about that little faggot for nearly 20 years
Grayson Green
His life was ruined in real life because of this movie. And he did get that fucking Turbo Man.
Aiden Morgan
>TFA is as much as a pile of shit as the prequels I agree, user
Samuel Martinez
Pretty much every Star Wars fan agrees that Anakin was written like shit in the prequels.
Anthony Howard
He's got a big boner for her. Why do you think he was walking funny during the fight?
Luke Gomez
all of this. Rey didnt defeat Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren defeated Kylo Ren, he was in his head too much.
Also in future versions of this pasta dont forget the whole fight he was literally punching his intestines in to stop them from falling
Aaron Stewart
butthurt waifu fag
Rey and this shitty new trilogy will be forgotten a year after the next movie
Jeremiah Richardson
Anakin was a mary sue, no one denies that. But he inevitably ended up succumbing to the dark side because he was weak. Rey still maintains her moral high ground without ANY training whatsoever. Yaaaas kween.
William Murphy
Thats just because women are clear headed and NEVER act on their emotion
Jackson Bell
TLJ directly implies that she grows stronger the stronger Kylo gets
Not only she is Mary Sue, she is only strong because of a Man.
William Walker
Plus everyone likes her. She has no unlikable qualities. She's also never paid any kind of price for any of her sudden abilities.
They've made Rey a Disney Princess without being a princess.
Parker Gutierrez
If she was a Mary Sue, she wouldn't need Kylo to be stronger and everyone would love her.
Joshua Wright
Dod you watch the movie? Rey cried like 20 times.
Cooper Howard
>mother says there was no father >extremely high power level just like sheev >sheev says there's an "unnatural" power that can "create life" >sheev already had plans for the kid his whole life
guess who the daddy really is. hint: it wasn't "the force" alone
Carson Young
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Nicholas Watson
Finn Loves her Leia Loves her Yoda Loves her Chewi Loves her Kylo Lover her Even Snoke fucking loves her Luke Loves her so he comes back and die even when she is a dark side argerblob degenerate.
Jason Cook
I really think retards need to learn what a Mary Sue is, not the real version but the version used to describe shitty characters
1. A Mary Sue does not have to be the strongest character, they just need to be a character that undeservedly has a power they never earned.
2. A Mary Sue is not a character that never fails, they can fail but their failure has no consequence, and whenever it would something bails them out. Whether it is some BS they pull, another character, or anything deus ex machina
3. A Mary Sue CAN have faults, but they are "positive" faults, like they are too trusting or too kind. Anything that makes people love and defend them because of just how "good" the character is.
Gabriel Clark
Dont forget Han, Han hated every character he ever interacted with for nearly the entire movie until the end
Dominic Peterson
>gets his arm cut off by Dooku >mother is raped and killed >nobody likes him >nobody takes him seriously >won’t be granted Master >years of training between episode 1 and 2, and still isn’t that great of a Jedi
Totally same thing as Rey
John Adams
Even the audience doesnt like him Anakin is a shitty character, but anyone saying he is as bad a mary sue as rey is retarded
Ryder Jackson
Nice dubdubdub
But also, that's part of why this movie fails so bad as a story. They don't go into any of her previous experiences, and she can do everything. We don't know if she has flown before, but clearly she has because it was so easy for her. Doesn't help when you throw in the force stuff that she dedinitely had no prior experience with.
Lucas Jones
Also why the fuck didn't Rey lose her hand in this second movie
that's bullshit
James Allen
Because shes a woman and needs a handicap
Nathaniel Powell
you know what would've been a good decision? If Snoke or Ren cut both her legs off at the knees and she gets cyborg legs
Adrian Carter
Because she’s a woman. Not even memeing. Part of what makes a movie good is seeing a protagonist bloodied and bruised. The thing is, most people feel uncomfortable seeing a woman getting her shit wrecked by a man, so they play it safe. It can be done tastefully though. See Kill Bill for example
Aiden Taylor
She needs a hand to give handjobs
Zachary Smith
Hi Jay
Aiden Foster
Who cares about any of that
The point is that Rey has no trails in the film AND that they paralleled her against Luke. Finn is a better MC for Force Awakens. Least he means something to the story. Least he has a reason to stop the Empire.
Rey is only NOW interesting because of her interactions with Ben.
Adrian Cook
>He had just killed his dad and was unbalanced and distracted by it. Emotional instability is a power boost to darkside users.
>He had also been shot by Chewbacc The movie directed shows Kylo beating his wound to make it hurt even more, and pain is also a power boost to darkside users.
>hurrr he doens't want to hurt her because he's swinging around her Yeah just like all the prequel choreography I guess Maul didn't want to hurt Obi want either.
Not only did Rey beat Kylo having never held a lightsaber before on her first day of using the force, she beat him when he was powered up by his emotional turmoil and pain. She beat Kylo Plus.
Alexander Martin
>That's an assumption. You don't know what she's done while growing up Rey says that she hasn't ever piloted the ship right before they take off >Anakin was raising podracers which no human should be able to do The prequels made it very clear that Anakin is the special snowflake chosen one from a special prophecy >Luke had a day's worth of training with Obi Wan and Force manipulated his torpedoes Luke is the son the chosen one and had Obi-Wan to guide him
Connor Evans
>>Luke had a day's worth of training with Obi Wan and Force manipulated his torpedoes He didnt even manipulate them, he just made the shot perfectly without a computer
It would be like someone making a long shot with a rifle and no scope, what he didnt wasnt impossible
Its like shooting a basketball blindfolded
William Campbell
>Anakin was raising podracers which no human should be able to do. Anakin was able to podrace because Force users have precognitive reaction times. Also he wrecked the last pod he raced, remember? That was his first podrace he ever even finished.
>Luke had a day's worth of training with Obi Wan and Force manipulated his torpedoes Luke didn't manipulate his torpedos with the Force, he used the Force as a truer method of aiming than his targeting computer.
> Nevermind learning to pull on his own Two years or so deep into being a Force user.
It's like you people don't even watch the movies.
Christian Cox
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Cameron Flores
It’s fucking incredible how throughout the entire movie her biggest sign of wear was a small red bruise on her face. Compare it to Kylo who looked like he had been through some serious shit and it was just terrible. “Equality” indeed
Joshua Turner
>he believes that in TFA they had already decided what to do with the character >he believes that everything is planned and written years in advance Like a true Cucklord.
Justin Johnson
>That's an assumption You mean... like the "he didnt want to hurt her" thing?
John Rivera
are going to make this thread every day faggot? She was NOT TRAINED in how to use a lightsaber. She is a Mary Sue. Deal with it.
Cameron Martinez
...
David Evans
She will kick his ass in the 3rd movie so that will end the conversation once and for all.
Christopher Peterson
Nah. He should have been making awkward passes at her and responding with y-you too
Xavier Diaz
>Also the Force chose her. Hey, dumbass. The force doesn't "choose" anyone. It's not a living thing. It's a life force but itself has no will. It's like fucking chi.
Josiah Lopez
Stu in TPM, not in the other two.
Luis Carter
>most people feel uncomfortable seeing a woman getting her shit wrecked by a man Not me. I'm a sick fuck. Thanks ryona.
Anthony Adams
stop soyboy. part of being a mary sue is having amazing abilities that aren't explained. the other part is that every character of the established setting immediately are enamored with her, which every character does.
Chase Peterson
Don't forgot that she's given no training whatsoever and was able to force lift an entire fucking AVALANCHE after ditching whiny hermit Luke, despite Luke being trained by Yoda himself and he couldn't even lift his X-Wing at the end of his training.
Daniel Taylor
I don't care for the reasons for it, thematically it doesn't work. If she kicked his ass in the first fucking film, where does her character have to go? There's going to be no tension if they fight each other. She should not have beaten him. And besides, he looked like he was giving it his all.
James White
>for beating Kylo But that's not what makes her a Mary Sure, cuck, so stop trying to control the narrative. >flies Falcon perfectly despite only being some scavenger >lectures Han on how his own ship works >perfect shot with a pistol even though we've only seen her use her stick >force mind trick and that's JUST in Force Awakens. Sorry RIDF but she's a shite character.
Luis Ross
easy, you see the difference is that every other jedi had to be trained from childhood to use the force, except for Rey, because Rey is a strong independent woman who doesn't need no man training her. you go girl!
Julian Ross
Giving The Force Awakens the event it of the doubt with the entire Kylo-Rey thing, that doesn't explain or justify her being able to basically outperform him against the Praetorian guards for no reason. Sure, they had a chance to semi-rationalize it by having her be trained by Luke, but she never gets trained by Luke despite being around him for two fucking hours! What's the fucking point of her even meeting Luke? I can excuse the plot holes and scientific inaccuracies, but when the plotlines themselves are worthless, that's a problem.
Rey can beat four of Snoke's elite guards despite them being vastly more experienced than she is? Why, because she is strong in the force? Since when did that in and of itself make somebody a better sword fighter? Luke got blown the fuck out by Vader even with training, because Vader had way more experience. But Rey has no experience and is somehow Kylo's equal.
Justin Adams
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Anthony Carter
Powers aside, this is the main bread and butter of a mary sue. They enter into established franchises and no character sees any fault in them.
Luke Cook
the portions man didn't like her, nor did the other scavengers.
Justin Nelson
ok she is not a mary sue for beating kylo (twice) but still she is liked by everyone she meets, is the best at fighting, the best pilot, the best mechanic, when she is offscreen all characters ask where is rey
Jeremiah Jackson
My point is soundly defeated.
But seriously, she has zero drawbacks and no one questions or doubts her for a second. Han was shitting on Luke for the entire first film. Leia's first words to him were calling him a manlet.
Ryan Hall
I just came here to say that op is right and 90% of this board suck cock.
Nolan Murphy
pretty sure han makes similar quips towards her and finn. I agree she isn't very well rounded, but I think some of the points about her being TOO OP AT EVERYTHING just comes down to the fact that she's the person the story is following and she's strong in the force.
Sebastian Hernandez
anakin in tpm: >high midichlorian count >good pilot (podracing, blows up ship) >mechanic >jedi council hates him >sadboi >slave
anakin in aotc: >cocky >cringe >skilled fighter & pilot >loses to dooku
anakin in rots: >beats dooku >scared >great fighter & pilot >hated him the council >falls to darkside >loses to obiwan because of his arrogance
Jordan Perry
It's confirmed Kylo was weaker after killing Han.
He was literally bleeding out.
He literally wants to be her teacher and rule the galaxy with her, he's not going to beat her into submission.
Matthew Harris
>It's confirmed Kylo was weaker after killing Han.
Not in the movie.
John Perez
How did she fight better against Snoke's guards than Kylo did? She had zero training at all.
Jordan Smith
You're wrong.
>During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world's top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). Before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2. Serena said afterwards "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."
Rey should have lost. Kylo's technique would have been superior and more precise. His physique, though injured, would still be stronger. His ability to use the force would also be more fine-tuned.
If Kylo was a practitioner of the force and lightsaber dueling for all his life, he'd have severe incalculable advantages over Rey, even if he was injured.
If the timeline was nonexistent, and everyone lived at the same time, how do you think Leia would fare in a lightsaber battle with Darth Maul? Think about it, and you'll have your answer.
Josiah Gutierrez
Stop posting this.
Gabriel Barnes
>Literally moments before fighting Rey, Kylo stomps on Finn.
So then why does Kylo suddenly switch gears and go easy on Rey? The answer is because Mary Sue can't lose a fight. Kylo is an experienced dark side user, there is no fucking reason why he should lose to Rey when Rey has had literally 0 force training at this point in her life. Even if the fight went differently, with Rey and Finn both attacking simultaneously, it still should have been a win for Kylo.
But let's ignore all that, and focus purely on the narrative structure. Even if it could be justified, having Rey win her very first fight against Kylo is a terrible decision from a narrative POV. Why? Because what if Luke somehow managed to defeat Vader in their very first lightsaber fight? That would have been pretty fucking lame; putting Luke in a position where he has to fight for his life against an obviously superior foe is part of Luke's journey, and it makes him a more compelling character. We, the audience, get to root for Luke as he gets stronger and more adept with the force. Because Luke got his ass kicked in ESB, his victory over Darth Vader in ROTJ is a genuine moment of triumph, the culmination of Luke's growth as a warrior in the OT.
Now look at Rey. She already defeated her Vader in their very first fight. This makes Kylo Ren look weak, and it robs Rey of a chance to have a compelling arc where she has to git gud to defeat Kylo in the next movie. Rey's training with Luke in TLJ would have a whole extra layer of urgency if Rey was training because was afraid of Kylo Ren and she knows she has to improve her skills in order to defend herself. But because Rey already defeated Kylo in TFA, there is much less opportunity for dramatic tension. Because the writers insist on babying Rey, they've made her a flat character that wins constantly without ever having to improve herself.
Aiden Rivera
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Adrian Taylor
Killing his dad wouldn't unbalance him it would give him more power you faggot. That's why the Emperor got pissed at Luke for not killing Vader
Elijah Thomas
WTF
Julian Gutierrez
to be fair, luke PROBABLY didn't want to hurt rey either
he had gone fucked in his solitude, but not that fucked
Jaxson Foster
I knew you are going to argue on how he didn't want to hurt her. Yeah, he didn't. She still striked him unaware; made him get angry (losing composure) ; draw her lightsaber on him; doesn't regret; doesn't apologize; the movie rewards her for this.
Jaxon Bell
How did you know I was going to even post in this thread? Are you a Jedi?
Checkmate.
Daniel Moore
You = Any loser that would fall for that webm and attempt to white knighting MaRey Sue on the physical aspect of the fight.
Juan Martin
Kylo was hit by a POWERFUL, STRONG, DIVERSE, and INDEPENDENT Bowcaster.
Jacob Collins
Uh... he becomes the villain, not the hero
Cooper Gomez
>the force chose her >not a mary sue l
Wyatt Diaz
>into a duel with his waifu (who he clearly didnt want to hurt) its simple math How does that not make her a comical Mary sue? Even the bad guy is in love with her.
Asher Gray
bea in kill bill is legit lovable and badass
Jacob Cox
well he was so now you know.
she didn't she was struggling and was clearly like a rookie while he took on 3 at a time