Is she right?. Is the real reason why so many Superman movies fails is because he isn't romantic enought...

Is she right?. Is the real reason why so many Superman movies fails is because he isn't romantic enought? charming enough?. Should Superman movies be more romance than action?

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>the obvious
>superman is a romance story
stopped reading right there

it's true

it's one of the many reasons why the Thor movies are so successful and why he's a much more popular and loved character

When DC launched their Superman/Batman book years ago, and reintroduced Supergirl yet again, the book caught my attention because it had two internal monologues as captions, one from Superman and one from Batman. They'd look at the same events and Batman would say "This is a mystery". Superman said "This is a love story".

So yeah, maybe there's some truth to that. Especially because there's more than one usage of the word "romantic". The second definition is "characterized by or suggestive of an idealized view of reality". That's pretty Superman to me, anyway.

shit bait, desu.

>I think audiences have a hard time loving a ridiculously handsome flying guy with a hot girlfriend who feels sorry for himself
I'm not sure why this even needs to be said. Superman is the dream; and the movies have been pushing "it sucks to be him" since Man of Steel.

There are many meanings of 'romance'. There's the romance of the western, the romance of the gothic, the romance of the cape.

Man of Steel is not romantic, in any sense of the word. Fear and uncertainty is not romantic.

It kind of does though. Being Superman also carries a huge burden, but like Ma Kent said, it doesn't have to. He could pull a Manhattan whenever he wanted to and no one could stop him. But he chooses to be a hero because that's the kind of guy he is.

The balance between doing the right thing and not putting the world in a bottle is a tough one.

She's right about it being baked in. Clark without Lois is absolutely worthless.

Absolutely yes

I don't think this is the best way to put tje problem, but it is part of the issue the movies have faced for a long time.

Just because it actually would doesn't mean that's what you should sell.

>all fictional stories should be "turn off your brain" ones
Why? Why can't there be variety?

That's a pretty extreme logical leap that tells me you're not worth debating this with. "Turning on your brain" has absolutely nothing to do with tone. There's nothing that makes "It'd suck to be this guy" smart or thought provoking. It sucks to be anyone. Any protagonist faces hardship. Moreover, there IS variety, if you want a tragic hero as opposed to a romantic one he's the one running around in black and a bat mask. If you want an epic hero, she's the one with the magic lasso. Turning them all into tragic heroes is the opposite of variety.

Superman is a boring character. Way too powerful for most fans to relate to.

Also, Snyder's character assassination will be difficult to rehabilitate.

If a hack like Simone wants to write a harlequin romance treatment of supes, that's fine. I doubt it'll ever get greenlit...

>That's a pretty extreme logical leap that tells me you're not worth debating this with
How? You just said "that's how it would happen but they shouldn't acknowledge that" which means anyone who doesn't purposefully ignore facts and reason would see the logical inconsistency. This means the only way to enjoy it would be to "turn off your brain." How is that too big of a leap?

>tone
Tone wasn't mentioned until now.

>smart or thought provoking
Not mutually exclusive.

>tragic hero
I never said I wanted a tragic hero, I just want to see scenes where Superman's burden is shown to the audience, recreating those types of moments that you see in the comics. Why is that so hard? Being Superman is difficult, so it should be shown once in a while.

I'll agree that it's nice to have a small romance subplot as to show how he tries to balance his life (like spiderman) and how it affects him, making more human and no matter how invulnerable he is but he can always be hurt emotionally. But Superman is not a romance story.

>You just said "that's how it would happen but they shouldn't acknowledge that" which means anyone who doesn't purposefully ignore facts and reason would see the logical inconsistency.
>Tone wasn't mentioned until now.
Romanticism is a matter of tone. You change the outlook of events, you change that. It's never been a matter of facts but of perspective. There is no logical inconsistency; just presentation differences. Optimism is no less representative of reality than cynicism.
Snyder's take unnecessarily accentuates the negative, running counter to the romanticism inherent in the character. This is not brilliant; it's not thought provoking, just an anchor around its neck.

But I kind of figured this thread would attract the literal minded fedoracore autists that look at the word and go "but he fucked Lois in a bathtub" or "It's smarter this way!" since these threads always do.

>lets put even MORE damselling into comic book movies

did she have a fucking stroke or something?

you idiots need to google the word because romantic has more than one definition. its not just a matter of ships and fucking, it also means idealistic.

>Audience have a hard time loving a ridiculously handsome flying guy with a hot girlfriend who feels sorry for himself.
Imo they should turn Superman into an ugly NEET who browses /r9k/.

They basically did, minus the ugly part.

You're using word play to make it seem like the author was saying something completely different. It wasn't about that sort of romanticism but "love scenes." You're the only one who brought tone, as well as your own bitter antagonism, to the discussion. The thread was fine until then.

>Snyder's take unnecessarily accentuates the negative
But he doesn't. He shows some negative in order to emphasize the positive. But people like you ONLY see the negative and then get irrationally angry.

>This is not brilliant; it's not thought provoking
When did I ever say it was "thought provoking"? Turning on your brain isn't the same as "really making you think." You're getting your terms mixed up.

>insults
Now you show the real reason you post. You don't care about discussion, you just want to mindlessly insult "the bad guys" who have a different opinion than you. Why even do that? What do you gain from it?

If they did absolutely anything other than Jesus allegory, and their nonstop "How can a god live among men?!" crap all the damn time.

Superman movies are almost always incredibly boring, with no action or drama to speak of. Just weird angst and Jesus allegory stuff about gods walking among men.

When it is supposed to be a superhero movie. Just have him punch a bad guy, a robot, a gorilla, or a bad robot gorilla then rescue Lois.

Lois and Clark are the center of modern Superman and have been since the 1980s reboot. It's why the 1970s movies haven't aged well. The Rebirth line works best because we don't just see the love story between the two. We see the result of it. Their son.

Superman isn't a deadbeat dad who abandoned them.

He's not a mopey loser who watched his own father die.

Superman isn't feared as an alien invader.

Snyder may have thrown in the "it's stands for hope" line in his movie, but he didn't mean it. Everyone was afraid of Superman.

God tier, above it all Superman doesn't work anymore.

Hapless twit Clark doesn't work anymore.

John Byrne got it right.

Jerry Ordway, Roger Stern and even Dan Jurgens got it right after him.

The triangle number era got it right.

Lois & Clark got it right, even with a guy who wasn't a great Superman. He was a brilliant Clark.

Rebirth gets it right.

A two episode guest shot on the CW got it right.

Zack Snyder and WB Studios can't get it right.

Just copy all of what worked and Superman will work on the big screen again.

That's not how Simone is using the word. You're giving her too much credit.

Sound boring as fuck, champ.

She is absolutely right about the tortured and morose part. They need to stop that.

Or better yet. Let the damn CW handle Superman since they actually get the character and he works better on TV anyway.

>Zack Snyder and WB Studios can't get it right.
How come? Looks fine to me. They clearly love each other in the DCEU.

I like it.

If you read the stuff from Siegel and Shuster's run, the romance -- or certainly, Clark's unrequited desire for Lois and Lois's unrequited desired for Superman -- were there from the beginning.

Old school Superman (which, IMO, is the Superman that most people know him as and most people had in the back of their minds going into Donner's Superman) is really about a mild-mannered, genuinely good person who happens to be an extremely powerful superhero. Siegel and Shuster's Superman was, more or less, the concept of a good person being given massive power: he uses it for good as much as he can (because he was nowhere near omnipotent way back when) and he usually succeeds, since he's not so powerful he oversteps his bounds.

I think it's a dual issue: 1) the romantic, idealistic vision of old Superman comics and 2) the power nerfing required to make that vision believable in today's superhero climate.

Whelp, then lets go right back to Alaskan fishing Clark who stands by and watches Pa Kent die of a tornado then he cries about it for an hour of the movie.

Or drinking his sorrows away in a bar while Lex does another evil land development scheme movie. Those are always fucking perfect for Superman right?!

Does anyone even watch Thor movies? Even ironically

Both are ten times better than your bullshit Marvelfag-tier ideas.

Why not have him quip a few times in it, talk to some ants and then play pac man in space while we are at it?

It's been pushing the "It sucks to be Superman" narrative since Superman Returns

Sh-shut up! Thor 3 will beat the DCEU! G-guaranteed!

please watch our movie
it has hulk in it

>the power nerfing required to make that vision believable in today's superhero climate.
No please! I want my heroes to be strong. Maybe one day we'll get Silver Age power levels across the board. I'd be happy.

if it does not have any Hulk first person quips in it, I will consider the whole thing to be a failure.

And talking animals, I want more snarky talking animals because fuck making watchable movies! This is MCU where people who talk to ants are superheroes!

...

The Clark Kent, Superman and Lois Lane love triangle is a big draw for the female demographic and even for normies to relate with the character.

Ladies love Lois angst and drama from trying to choose between the man and the ideal.

Normies relate to Clark, the man, having to compete against Superman, the ideal, for Lois affection.

That's also why most people don't like the SM/WW romance so much. It focus too much on a prom king & queen/celebrity couple superficiality and the alien traits the characters share - they're the most powerful metas, they're quasi-immortals, they're only able to have planet-shattering sex with one another -, which make the couple look alien and posh-like.

she is a cunt .

>Most watched trailer since yesterday!
>We did it guys!! Wooooooo!!!!!

Sounds like Gail Simone wants a big ole farm boy in her bed

That's not bait, that's sarcasm you autist.

Superman could easily put on a brighter tone while still addressing his concerns. Comics have been doing that for decades.

We're just saddled with a Director and Idea guy who just doesn't get it. M.Night gets the hero idea better than Snyder.

Superman wasn't sexy in the Richard Donner's movies. I've never seen Superman as sexy and whenever writers try to show Superman as an alpha male that leave all the female characters in the panel he's in love-stricken with his manliness i find the character comes off as an off-putting chad.

Superman's supposed to be cute, not sexy.

Sexy to me makes me think of a guy i'd want to hook up in a club and fuck in a dirty bathroom stall, before leaving the place ashamed and hitching a cab home feeling slightly guilty. It's not the type of guy i'd want to date.
Cute to me makes me think of a guy who'd love to invite home to watch some Netflix and chill, then make out a bit, having some very loving and fun sex in my bed and then fall asleep content cuddling on his arms safe in the knowledge i can trust this guy.

The latter is Superman to me.

>M.Night gets the hero idea better than Snyder.

Unbreakable didn't had a brighter tone and Willies' Dunn was more morose than Cavill's Superman.

But he gets the idea. One is the Hero and the other is the villain and they need to be that way.

io9.gizmodo.com/glass-the-sequel-both-to-split-and-unbreakable-will-b-1794669298

And he's gearing up for round 2.

Synder doesn't seem to know what he wants out of Superman the hero at all.

I agree with this post 100%. I personally don't like the love triangle aspect, but I know girls enjoy it greatly. It's something I have to endure so that Superman can appeal to a wider audience. Is it worth it? No idea.

Also Superman/Wonder Woman should never be a thing. How did this weird fanfic get traction? Was it a kid's fetish who became a comic writer later in life?

>Beauty and the Beast - 127.6 million views, $1,142,500,233
>Star Wars the Force Awakens - 112 million views, $2,068,223,624
>Captain America Civil War - 94 million views, $1,153,304,495

Thor got more than 136 million views

It is for some writers at times. It gets really bad whenever he's ditched Clark for some reason and is just going by Kal. Then it gets really cringe in those stories.

Superman's very much the hero.

MoS only had Superman complaining about humanity not accepting him because a large part of the movie was about Superman and the government learning to trust and work with each other to save the planet.

BvS only had the media and Batman complaining about Superman because large part of the movie was about Lex trying to destroy his reputation through fabricated stories which were able to feed into people's bias that fed their insecurities.

>BvS only had the media and Batman complaining about Superman
Not to mention that Metropolis and the majority of the world had a positive view of Superman, as shown by the Day of the Dead scene, the Superman statue, and the court scene. Basically Superman haters were a fringe minority group.

Anyone else feel really uncomfortable listening to Gail Simone talk about girls creaming their pants?

>Gail Simone

Stopped reading there.

>Also Superman/Wonder Woman should never be a thing. How did this weird fanfic get traction? Was it a kid's fetish who became a comic writer later in life?

Marketing because both characters share some traits and are both icons in their own right.

But a large part is because some writers hate the Clark Kent persona, thinking that the mild-mannered reporter is lame and the biggest reason Superman isn't seen as a cool. So Wonder Woman's used as an excuse for Superman to shuffle off his mortal coil and act as the godlike hero he's meant to be.

Ironically because of that the pairing stories always approach Injustice like scenarios.

yes, this is the same reason supersons is great.
Superman as best dad, is exactly the same as best husbando.

It was a HUGE knock on Superman Returns with deadbeat dad and boyfriend.

Yeah. Pretty much. Shouldn't be the main plot, but the Lois and Clark subplot should be there.
Supes should also be romantic in the other sense, in that he should be idealized not realistic.

That's your fault for not knowing what sexy is. Sexy is not the quality of being trashy, it's anything that is sexually attractive. Cute can be sexy, hot can be sexy, confidence can be sexy, smart can be sexy, in your case chad can be sexy, in /d/ case futa can be sexy.
By inference Gail seems to mean sexy in being confident and romantic, like the classic scene where Superman takes Lois on a flight.

>Basically Superman haters were a fringe minority group.

and yet we're also lead to believe that isn't the case.

The films tone is pretty garbage in just doing that because they want Batman to keep having a reason to want to kill Superman.

>and yet we're also lead to believe that isn't the case.

People only started to turn on Superman after the fabricated stories Lex created started to show up. Like the African massacre.

lol

Did you just called me trashy?

you're a whore user

Enjoying casual sex don't make me a whore.

Yeah, at least whores get paid.

i wont say its not a good part of the mythos and characters,

but for fucks sake lady read a harelquinn book and take a fuckin midol

Lois must have been pretty shit at getting that story out then.

People should stop using twitter to write essays

>People should stop using twitter
I agree CERMAK Rains

>and yet we're also lead to believe that isn't the case.
When? It only changed after the capital bombing and it did a stellar job at showing that contrast.

I like them. But I think Thor 2 is better.

She is right, you know.

girls i guess? i keep hearing about how hot Thor/Loki apparently is

No it's not. Superman is a superhero story with romance elements.

she is a cunt.

>I think audiences have a hard time loving a ridicuously handsome flying guy with a hot girlfriend that feels sorry for himself.

100% this actually.

If you took ANY classes on writing a script, this is one of the first things that they say to you.

Robert McKee, one of the greatest influences on script writing warns about the danger of making your protagonist an all powerfull woobie that feels sorry for himself when all of his problems are his fault to begin with, he has the options to just change how things are, but rather just frown.

This can be done right (Sandman), but it is extremely difficult, and more likely than not, cause the audience to find the MC a moronic juvenille fuck. Like what happened with the reception of Snyderman.

I literally don't care for women's, especially the fat ones', opinions.

what's it like being so retarded

i will send her some tumblr messages she is cancer tumblr feminist.

fucking cunt ...

I know she’s a arrogant cunt who thinks she knows more than she really does.

It's why people like MCU Thor.

Sandman isn't the main character of Sandman because Sandman is actually an anthology comic.

Sandman's ending is moving because he serves as kind of symbolic form of all of the shit that goes on in Sandman, nearly all of which deals with loss, change, etc.

You absolutely can't have a self-pitying powerhouse fuckup as a MC.

She sound whiny.

Beta bitch.

Personally, I don't agree with this, but I do see the roots of it.

Personality, is the issue. Snyder's Superman is as cold as a dead trout in the arctic that died of depression.

Personality is what Superman needs more than almost any other hero. He's superpowerful, ultra awesome and has so few equals they have to more often than not nerf him with Kryptonite From Nowhere or whatever else they can find to give the villains a chance. A character like that needs to project personality, otherwise they come off as Too Stronk for this shit and the audience will loose interest.

Now, doing it right for Supes has been done in the past. Louis and Clark was a fun show for exactly this reason, as was the Superman Animated Series. Both had high stakes at times but you still wanted Superman to succeed, because you liked him. Not for how much he could lift but because he was a serious hero when he needed to be but also had no qualm with being snarky or taking a page from Bats and being remarkably intimidating. Just look at the scene where Supes and Luthor meet each other for the first time in SAS. It's a fantastic scene that plays their characters up super well.

Snyder's Supes doesn't lack romance because he lacks love, he lacks romance because he's a dead trout of a person who has unnaturally devoted lust for a woman who....had personality, for like two scenes in MoS. Before that got sucked out.

>he has the options to just change how things are, but rather just frown.
I didn't know Superman had mind control powers to make it so that people don't treat him like a god. When did this happen? Is this universe based on the silver age or what?

Superman fails because he is put in an Earth setting, he needs to go out more in intergalactic sci-fi adventures like Green Lantern.

>John Byrne got it right
>Triangle era got it right
Stopped reading at that. All Star Superman or Supreme is what the Superman reboot should've been. There's a reason there hasn't been a great Superman run since the reboot and two of the best Superman stories have been homage to the silver age. Superman was never meant to be the Kryptonian Spider-Man.

Morrison got Superman right because he did what Weisinger did in the 60s, when Superman was the most popular character and sold the highest comics.
Morrison wrote Superman as a guy facing normal problems, but on a large scale and in the weird world that surrounded him. He wasn't ashamed of adding campy Sci fi elements, unlike every other writer. Superman is a guy who lives in a world where he has accomplices from the 30th century, a bottled city from Krypton, different colored Kryptonites which affect him in strange ways and a best friend who is a famous troublemaker, and not some weirdo geek.

the romantic aspects of superman are literally his weakest aspects all his greatest stories barely even touch on his love life

All I got from this is that Gail wants the Superdick

Can you blame her?

Well, no

Superman is always romantic, Lois though?

>Jerry Ordway, Roger Stern and even Dan Jurgens got it right

Based Roger Stern ALWAYS got it right....

There hasn't been a great Superman run since the reboot because the Superman line since then has been mostly editorial mandated as opposed to just letting a writer do his thing.

Lois and Clark is them getting it completely wrong. Superman should be fun but loneliness should be an essential component of the character even though nobody can see it. They made Superman boring when they made him have a perfect life after the reboot.

Superman should be a harem.

I've done it tumblr hate the cunt :)
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