Batwankery is considered bad writing

>Batwankery is considered bad writing
>Doomwankery is applauded
Is Sup Forums formed by illiterate Doomfags?

>Doomwankery is applauded
You must be new.

>only retarded Batfags think Batwankery is """good writing"""
>only retarded Doomfags think Doomwankery is """good writing"""
>only retarded OP's think Sup Forums is a hivemind
It's like poetry, it almost rhythms.

Doom is a fucking PUNK.

Everyone talks about how horrible a villain he is, yet every damn one of his reads, at least the ones that I've seen or been suggested to see by Sup Forums, depict him as more of a fucking antihero than an actual villain.

Joker -- Killed Jason Todd, paralyzed Barbara, killed Sarah, etc.

Magneto -- Ripped Wolverine's fucking skeleton out

Green Goblin -- Killed Gwen Stacy, all of the psychological damage to his own fucking son

Doom -- The nigga delivered Reed Richards' child.

His big "act of villainy" there was just NAMING THE GIRL. Sure, you can toss out the whole "oh well he was proving that he could do something that Richards couldn't, he could help his family when Richards could not", or the bs "Oh well he's a classy motherfucker dohoho/he's an honorable villain" crap out there, but when it comes down to it, Doom hasn't done SHIT.

That all being said, Doom crying at 9/11 wasn't any sort of break in character or anything to me. Hell, I would even go as far to say that it was entirely IN character.

>Overpowered Villains= Cool
>Overpowered Heroes= Lame and boring writing

>i've been in Sup Forums for 2 days

>mods are all from latveria
Uh guys

>Implying Sup Forums didn't masturbate furiously when Doom destroyed Beyonders.

Jeez user, did Doom fuck your mom while he was universe jumping? How many times are you gonna post this copypasta?

To answer the question though, Batwankery is completely moronic, but Doomwankery has at least some thought put into it. More prep time, more resources, a broader knowledge and his ace, the occult. I mean, the guy even has tons of sceintists working for him. He can pass them up the schematics and be done with. He can use his time-machine and stretch his days and nights.

Besides, if it were a Batman comic, he wouldn't need Doctor Strange's help to rescue his mother, 2 decades after that plot point being brought up.

Face it, in front of Batwankery, Doomwankery is at least justified. If you're gonna cry about realism, then how come the universe's smartest beings reside on Earth? Might as well damn comics in general...

>Doomwankery has at least some thought put into it.

>Doomfags actually believe in it.

No. Not really, casual.

I don't know if this is bait or if you are incredibly uninformed and have never read an old comic.

It's pasta.

Ah.

So a Science Wizard with his own country defeating Gods is so out of the question, in a universe where the smartest being in the universe is a human who got hit by "cosmic rays", to the point abstract entities use his help. Might as well nuke comic books user.

The problem here is the "Only Doomwankery is good" attitude.

If the excuse is "it's just a comic", then all kinds of wankery are just as acceptable.

Batwankery makes less sense because Batman is a """normal""" human. You don't see Doom struggling with Joker and Two-Face. Doom's stories always awere high-end in nature. It's like complaining that Superman is OP, which is moronic.

And the excuse isn't "it's just a comic", it's that in a comic where Reed is the smartest being in creation thus far, to make Doom a threat you have to make him even more dangerous.

People's complaints with Batwankery comes more at Batman's exposure. Everyone fucking loved Morrison and Timm's Batgod moments like a decade ago. Its only after constant Batman everywhere people got sick of it.

Doomwankery is far more subdued because Doom himself has been largely subdued in recent years, plus there is a lot of casuals who think Doom is lame because of the movies whereas its the exact opposite with Bats.

Nope when Doom historically has problems dealing with the likes of Ben Grimm and Luke Cage. Going from this to "Beyonder are nothing to me" is quite a leap.

And Batman's biggest feats are not as exaggerated as Doom's.

One OOC instance, and stories from before SW. Good job user. Yeah, Doom, like any character has low showings. But he is the villain. It's his job to be OP.

Compare that with Batman who during one book has trouble with Riddler, and in the same month's JL issue hangs out with Gods and beats other Gods.

Doomwankery, silly as it is, is acceptable because that's the role the character had for a while. Batwankery makes no sense because at one point he's The Green Hornet, and then turns into Iron Man.

I mean, as Stark's suits evolve, you don't see him having trouble with old villains. Compare that with Batman, who gets constant upgrades through feats, but goes through the same motions, having trouble with the same villains.

Batman is hated by autists that are jelous he is more popular than their shitty faves.

No one gives a fuck about batwankery as most of the normal people that don't like batman just don't read batman comics, i don't like him, the last time i touched something about him was gaiman's.

No one cares about doom, since he isnt popular.

So no, it's not bad writing, it's the nature of the characters and the role they fit in the universe, it's never bad writing, bad writing is HOW it's done, if the plans are good or bad, not if they beat gods or stuff like that. I don't like batman since i'm not really into DC, i don't like Doom either, but as someone said a long time ago in a thread about Sherlock:


There's nothing worst than Smart characters wrote by stupid writers.

If morrison does the batwank it's good, if loeb does the batwank it's bad, is that simple.


Also, my favorite DC characters are captain atom, firestorm, and lobo.

>stories from before SW
Curiously, the best stories featuring Doom.

>But he is the villain. It's his job to be OP.
Nope, his job is to be an antagonist. If the writers can't make it without going full retard, they shouldn't write at all.

>that's the role the character had for a while
And only illiterate Doomfags liked it.

>Batwankery makes no sense because at one point he's The Green Hornet, and then turns into Iron Man.
How is this different than Captain America or Hawkeye's case?

You know why Doomwankery is bad? Because it is lazy.

what about Pantherwankery?

Oh look, another thread where people who don't read comics shitpost about comic book characters. Saged.

t. triggered Doomfag

>Curiously, the best stories featuring Doom.
Where he was a 2D villain whose biggest accomplishment was tricking the Surfer? But isn't that Doomwankery to you user?

>Nope, his job is to be an antagonist. If the writers can't make it without going full retard, they shouldn't write at all.
So what the hell do you want him to do user? I'm really asking. How should the guy who's primary antagonist is the smartest being in the universe, who hangs around with Gods, supposed to be a threat if he doesn't take down some Gods himself?

>And only illiterate Doomfags liked it.
Yeah, sure user, sure. You're right, the true Doomfans are the ones who liked him when he was just a zanny Lex Luthor with a cloak and a castle...

>How is this different than Captain America or Hawkeye's case?
Because Cap doesn't go from having trouble with Crossbones to smacking around Thor every other Wednesday...

>You know why Doomwankery is bad? Because it is lazy.
With that logic, every character is lazy. Spider-Man "finding the will to push through" is lazy. Batman fixing his broken back in minutes is lazy. Reed whipping up a gizmo and saving the day is lazy.

Everything is lazy, because in the end, the good guys win, shocker, I know. Doom's feats aren't that different from any other prep-master or high-end character.

Just admit you're either salty or don't like that version.

Wait a minute, the obsessive reflection on Batman ITT can't be coincidence. Have the people calling foul on Doom antics been Batfags sour that he gets away with things their fav can't?

I've always wondered who could have such time and energy for ire towards a character second to Thanos in getting built up only to predictably be knocked off his throne.

92030478
t. Cockgobbling newfag
Thanks for the (you)

Doom stories end with Doom losing. He's built into a massive threat to be taken down with the occasional fun side-story like when he saves his mom. So it doesn't matter if he gets an absurd amount of power or wins when he shouldn't because, in the end, he eventually stumbles and it all falls apart.

Yes

/thread

>Where he was a 2D villain whose biggest accomplishment was tricking the Surfer?
Now he is a 2D villain whose biggest accomplishment was destroying Beyonders using a half-assed plan.

Oh sorry, his biggest accomplishment became the god of the multiverse through a half-assed plan.

Oh sorry, his biggest accomplishment was being the being judged by Gods as the most perfect being in existence.

Oh sorry, and so on...

>So what the hell do you want him to do user?
Do fucking something that should matter beyond masturbating material to Doomfags, for a change? Show him actually ruling Latveria instead of saying how awesome of a dictator he is? Show he doing something really clever instead of half assed plans that are successful somehow? Isn't that what writers are supposed to do, instead of "LOOK DOOM DESTROYED BEYONDER HOW FUCKING AWESOME!!1!"

>Yeah, sure user, sure. You're right
Look at this thread, how many Doomfags are denying that they like Doomwankery.

>Because Cap doesn't go from having trouble with Crossbones to smacking around Thor every other Wednesday...
Neither does Batman. You know that Batman's biggest feat during Morrison's run was getting out of a grave, right?

>With that logic, every character is lazy.
Nope, with that logic, Doomwankery is lazy.

Writers do nothing with him beyond "this human has the power to do anything wants somehow".

This blatant samefagging

Panther wank is pretty bad sometimes. That being said, I liked in Ultimates when he learned out to kick the chi out of the enemy...

>Show him actually ruling Latveria instead of saying how awesome of a dictator he is?
They've done that before, with his war against the family of the previous rulers.
> Show he doing something really clever instead of half assed plans that are successful somehow?
I'd bring up several cases but judging from the pattern here you're either unaware of them or will just dismiss them.

OP here.

Suck it.

>Doom stories end with Doom losing
no they don't. They end with him getting a small fraction of what he wanted, him calling it a win and walking away. That's what's interesting about him, his plots are complex and a lot of the time you don't know exactly what he's after until the story is done. Really only against the F4 does he outright try to attack them, other times it's him gathering knowledge and power.

He's the Lex Luthor of marvel. Even if he loses he comes out ahead in some way.

It seems to me you just read the Secret Wars scans and went all "OMGEEE WHY DOES THIS EUROTRASH GET TO WIN OVER MUH US HEROES REEEEEEE"

Seriously user, none of what you typed apply.
1) Doom's been shown to rule Latveria, and the public's perseption of him, but because he's merely an antagonist, they don't have time to go in-depth with it apart from FF Annual #2 (and Waid's shit).

2) Bast didn't judge him as the most perfect being. She just recognized that what he spouted was not bullshit, and in his own way wanted to save the world.

3) What kind of plan is "clever" to you user? Doom has underlings. He's not supposed to be a cunning con-artist. He's always upfront and boastful because he's arrogant as fuck. Doom doesn't scheme, he plans and announces it.

As for Batman, the fucker canonically sleeps less then 2 hours per day. He is "Master of 127 Martial Arts". Is the "3rd Smartest Person on Earth". Is able to create tech like Brother Eye. And then proceeds to have trouble with Slasher Joker and Two-Face...

>Doomwankery is lazy cause... cause... SW MON!
Sure thing user, sure...

>Writers do nothing with him beyond "this human has the power to do anything wants somehow"
Have you ever read a Doom story? The whole point is that he's the best polymath around, but because he goes against specialists in their turf,he gets sacked, but is too prideful to back down, so he snags some mini wins.

batman is like dr doom if dr doom did everything he already does but with hand to hand fighting and some relatively basic tech

>but because he's merely an antagonist, they don't have time to go in-depth with it
What an excuse! Even Black Adam has more content of him ruling Kandahq.

>She just recognized that what he spouted was not bullshit, and in his own way wanted to save the world.
"I'm the only one capable of ruling the world!"
"W-well, you're not wrong."

>What kind of plan is "clever" to you user?
Something like Luthor did in "All Star" or "Red Son", or Ozy in "Watchmen".

You know, something more than "I build a machine that will do exactly what I want" or "I came back in time and now is all according to my plan". Please, no "Triumph and Torment".

>Doom has underlings. He's not supposed to be a cunning con-artist
But he is supposed to be super smart.

> "Master of 127 Martial Arts". Is the "3rd Smartest Person on Earth". Is able to create tech like Brother Eye. And then proceeds to have trouble with Slasher Joker and Two-Face...
And you're RREEEEEEEing because of that while defending that being the master sorcerer, the master scientist, the 2nd smartest person in the world, able to create anything that the plot demands and buttfuck Gods and then proceeds to have trouble with Ben Grimm is just "part of comics".

You already posted this bait like last week.

>Even Black Adam has more content of him ruling Kandahq.
I'd ask why you dismissed my post where they go into the manner Doom rules Latveria, but I said in that very post you'd likely just dismiss things that don't agree with your view so one way or another I shouldn't be surprised.

>"W-well, you're not wrong."
No, as that user said the Panther God just saw that Doom's thinking is legitimately towards that end. He's not just telling it to other to excuse his actions, he believes it and appears to be acting it out.
>Something like Luthor did in "All Star" or "Red Son", or Ozy in "Watchmen".
Why did you only cite mini-series with conclusions short of Watchmen now ineffectual to on-goings? Of course Luthor can flash Superman a piece of paper saying "I already won" in Red Son, the story facilitated that "clever" plan. He's never going to pull anything like that off in the continued run.

That's at least a year old pasta, actually.

>Black Adam
Who's Billy's only noteworthy villain, so yeah, of course he's essentially gonna share almost equal panel time. It's not like they have anyone else besides him and Sivana.
Meanwhile, the F4 have an entire gallery of villains, not to mention it's a team book. What do you want? A special Doom back-up?

'Sides, we know plenty of things about Latveria:

1) Travel in and out of the country is estremely hard.
2) Doom holds "courts" where his subjects can go and voice their concerns.
3) There are Latverian Ambassadors all over the world, but we know for sure that thereare a couple in America, in the Embassy.
4) Doom's subjects love him (or fear him) enough to cheerfully hold parades (when he dissappeared and came back, his subjects were delighted to see him).
5) No Latverian fights in wars, rather all of the fighting is carried out by Servo Guards.
6) Religious Freedom exists there.
7) Doom has provided robotic help to farmers and manual workers.
8) Doom's dungeon has many jukeboxes that play a remix of "All you need is love".

I'd say that's enough for an antagonist, whose country is of secondary importance to him, who in turn is of secondary importance to the book.

>Uh... yer wrong
So basically what I said? She didn't call him perfect, just that he truly believed that he was noble, and his cause was in fact worthy.

>Muh mins
Really, user? Citing AU minis? Besides, what was Ozy's plan? Simplified, it's "fake an alien invasion and hope everybody comes together". It wasn't some grand epic...
Sides, Doom's SW(15) Plan was pretty grand. He tracked all of the MM, built a religion, created a myth around him, created the MM Bomb, figured out the Incursions and prepared for the Beyonders. I don't see what's basic about that.

>REEEE
I said that the Grimm parts were before Doom got OP. "Wankery" is part of comics, period. If you stopped your screeching, maybe you'd have actually read the post and understood it.

Doom has magic
Batman doesnt.

Its not wank. Batman is the one who doesnt deserve the praise

> Doomfags say he's an antagonist and that's why he's allowed to be overpowered
> Panther God says Doom's future is the most bestest fastest and most peacefulest

This is why I cannot stand Doom. All the shit about being an antagonist would be right if it weren't for the fact that the readers know that Doom's ways are the most competent and he would be better off leading.

That page killed Doom for me

>magic excuses wankery
This is the problem with you Doomfags.

>"Wankery" is part of comics, period.
I don't see that many writers going out of their way to say how great Lex Luthor is, how awesome at everything he is, how gods recognize his greatness, how he can defeat the Anti-Monitor alone using a bomb (?) because of "keikaku".

Only Doom is subject of such wankery.

>I don't see that many writers going out of their way to say how great Lex Luthor is, how awesome at everything he is, how gods recognize his greatness
He's been godlike multiple times, and in this particular case much like Victor's inability to humble himself Lex's "weakness" was that he was really, really angry with a guy in blue tights and red shorts and all his power just whisked away.

And much like Victor joined the Future Foundation, Lex has joined the Justice League and been illustrated to be a source of untapped heroics.

...

All wankery is bad but Batwankery gets special attention because Batman is fucking everywhere.
It's exceedingly easy to ignore Doomfags because Marvel themselves is trying to sweep Doctor Doom and the rest of the Fantastic Four under the rug for whatever dumb reason of the moment. WB/DC on the other hand, goes and throws Batman into everything as a means of damage control like they're the president of Madagascar and somebody sneezed.

>Doomwankery is applauded

>Doom claims he made the perfect world
>You believe him

user. No. Come on. They've done this storyline multiple times. His world never works out.