Have an army of ninja and a lot of money and resources

>have an army of ninja and a lot of money and resources
>can't beat 4 ninja teens
literally how?

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Cause he's a pawn in a larger game that's being played user.

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Four ninjas are deadlier than an army of ninjas.

It's just math.

There's some degree of sense in the IDW telling, it appears the mutagen process gives regular animals above human capabilities and humans superhuman levels like Bebop and Rocksteady.
Ergo all of Shredder's ninja even trained to peak human capability are still fighting an uphill climb against four above creatures with greater degrees of resilience and power.

Now when we get into how the turtles survive against other mutants who aren't only their equals in capability but do not hold back, I have no answer.

Which incarnation of Shredder we're talking about?

If we're talking movies, Raphael had a head start in training since birth and got his ass beat by an overwhelming force of runaway teens who picked up ninjitsu as soon as they ditched their folks.

For IDW, i think it was always portrayed how Hamato Yoshi was the better master than Oroku Saki.

Because Shredder is a shit teacher and he doesn't have any halfway decent instructors under his employ, so the vast majority of his mooks are fifth-rate shitters.


In comparison, Splinter was a god-class instructor.

>Which incarnation of Shredder we're talking about?
All of them?

>Ergo all of Shredder's ninja even trained to peak human capability are still fighting an uphill climb against four above creatures with greater degrees of resilience and power.

In comparison, Splinter was a god-class instructor.

If we're talking about trying to be realistic at all, that doesn't matter. Even the strongest, best-trained individual person is going to be overwhelmed by numbers. Read up on any actual martial artist talking about fighting groups.

In reality numbers always win, doesn't matter how good you are. One guy, or four guys, can't beat 100.

The answer is it's a comic that's trying to be awesome and fun, not realistic.

Well in the Mirage Comics, the very first arc was the one in which the Turtles assassinate the Shredder, which robs the Foot of their central leadership, making a strong response nearly impossible.

turns out money cant buy everything! whoduthunk??

Shredder is literally the only one that can go toe to toe with the turtles, but instead he trusts mutated idiots and overwhelming force of robots or inexperienced teens (depending on the incarnation) to the job that he can do.

In short, Shredder along with Karai and maybe 2 other students trained by him personally could've beat the snot out of the turtles but as the other user said: It's just comics.

The answer is that when other mutants don't hold back in a fight, the turtles don't win. Just look at how Bebop and Rocksteady almost straight-up murdered Donnie.

I'm guessing no one's going to storytime #69

well why don't you do it?

>In reality numbers always win
Depends on your numbers.

If "in reality" the four creatures could hit hard enough to powder bone into dust, had extremely durable hides that require significant exertion to damage, react quick enough to make the slightest miss step or over-committed action from an opponent detrimental and recover from exhaustion and injury faster than any human, then you can send a hundred organ donors and it's still going to be more trouble than it's worth.

I mean, what you're suggesting is like a room full of MMArtists trying to barehand some kind of quartet of steroid doping, rapid healing, prize fighting, coordinated gorillas. They might seriously harm them with time but chances are the first twenty going in fresh are just going to end up crippled or dead. The fight actually begins with the next group, but even they're at a disadvantage.
>Inb4 evidence?
#20 and a little something called observation. Leo has the strength to slice through Krang's armor, he then not only survives a punch from it that sends him flying and cracks a wall, but is up and fighting shortly after. If Leo were the strongest human he'd have left a big dent in the arm and then burst open like over ripe fruit.

Forgot about that, yeah those two are a horror show in IDW. They got up from an artillery barrage and building collapsing on them slightly bruised.

>literally
AGAIN WITH THIS...let me help you.
"Shredder is the only one..."

why are you literally angry?

I always felt like Shredder, his army of Foot Ninja, and his mutant slaves deserved better heroes to fight than mutant turtles

>Leo has the strength to slice through Krang's armor
HAHAHAHA fucking nerd. what a loser

Too tired. I have a final at 0700 EST. I'm supposed to be studying.

If we're talking in generalities and not one specific version of TMNT, Splinter has been training his four sons since they could stand upright. Intense, advanced training every day for 15 years. It's hard to compete with four prodigies.

Though obviously the turtles have been bettered before. Shredder is more than a match for all four of them, and Foot Elites give the turtles plenty of trouble.

They make short work of all the other people in the series. The Purple Dragons and Savate elite can't do much but watch their people get used for practice by the Foot.

If it wasn't for the mutants, extradimensionals and gods Shredder would probably be king of the planet. Of course if wasn't for the extradimensionals and gods he wouldn't be alive but he still had just as good a run in the past.

I always took it in Mirage, Shredder was not only in exceptionally good shape but also in skills when he fought the TMNT - because the turtles themselves were literally teens.

In that one future Donnie story, when he's living on his own in Japan and practices using ultra-futuristic simulations/holograms/whatever, he takes down Shredder fairly effortlessly with his own years of experience, training, and a naturally tough body that's also mutated to god-tier agility and strength thanks to the mutagen.

>In reality numbers always win
Despite the many historical battles that prove that wrong and that terrain and tactics is more important
Inb4 sperging about 300, I don't mean them

Laird has said before that being mutated doesn't give the turtles powers. They're just exceptionally skilled martial artists.

so like 4 mini iron fists?

You're on the right track, but Iron Fist has the glowing chi as well.
More like four Matt Murdocks.
Except not blind.

Fuck this is hard.

Forget your shitty thread. Did anyone read the new issue? Hob threatening to murder Bishop's father was exquisite. Got to say I like this version of Bishop more given he's more humane (he has family instead of being an immortal human).

Also Sally Pride has replaced Alopex.

to be fair it seem like Kitsune genuinely has feelings for him

>More like four Matt Murdocks.
>Except not blind.
given the Origins this is probably the most succinct

If it was the mutagen that Gave Matt his powers and blindness, then was the last animal he touched a bat?

i wasnt going so far as to suggest they have the SAME ORIGIN just that one references the other heavily
but yeah sure that makes sense, but if that was the case Matt would have have big leathery wings and HUGE ears

Conservation of ninjutsu.

With a full break down.

>Mirage
Numbers game but Shredder was written off as a jobber in Issue 1. Was incredibly skilled and nearly killed a turtle.

>87
Splinter and the fact that the turtles got better over time is a factor as to why he lost. Majority of the time is because 87 is a kids show with goofy themes.

>Movies
He nearly kills the turtles in the first movie. He's an incompetent goon in the second one. We don't talk about Next Mutation.

>2k3
Shredder gets the upper hand, loses his ass like he always does due to arrogance and anger. Nearly ends the TMNT multiverse but is stopped by 3 teams of turtles and Bebop and Rocksteady being total dumbasses.

>2k12
Actually accomplishes his goal twice in one series. He beats the hell out of the turtles on multiple occasions.

>IDW
IDW Shredder was a destined ruler of earth who probably killed 3/4 of the turtles in an alternate time line. So yeah, he actually won at some point.

Inverse Ninja Law

>Even the strongest, best-trained individual person is going to be overwhelmed by numbers. Read up on any actual martial artist talking about fighting groups.

That stops being true when you have even a small group covering each other's backs, and stakes are high enough (i.e., lethal weapons are used) for opponents to start having doubts about going into the fray first.

4 > Army
then that mean solo >4?

Where was the Hydracap outrage for Splinter?