Can Captain America ever recover?

Can Captain America ever recover?

Seems to me that Marvel has permanently ruined one of the most iconic comic book heroes for the sake of boosting short term sales.

What did they do?

make him nazi hydra agent

Marvel's damage control is already in full swing. Gonna get retconned so hard, it will make Spider-Man's marriage look like supercanon in comparison.

Made him order Rick Jones to be executed by firing squad. And he did it, the ABSOLUTE MADMAN

There used to be a time when Scarlet Witch was the most toxic character at Marvel and writers were afraid to use her.
I think Steve can come back from this.

I don't know man

Wanda may have gone crazy and done some things but that doesn't really compare to the personification of American excellence and courage becoming a literal nazi fuhrer.

ohohoho, tell us more

We all know this is gonna end with the Cosmic cube making it as if none of this ever happened
I know it's gonna take more than hand waving this away to appease most people, but I feel like making him Hitler not canon will help a lot.

...

The only way it can be undone is if Real Cap comes back, and becomes unbelievably livid at RS. Then give him a couple of years off to recover.

they'll probably have 4 years of cap feeling bad and trying to redeem himself but failing and giving the mantle to that black bird guy, all written by Nick Spencer

Stark is shittier and has a lot of "he dindu nothing" fans who will defend every little awful shit he does, even in the comics.

As long as Cap stays pretty and repents he will recover.

He won't be a paragon of goodness anymore though but they can do interesting stories with him.

I like Hydra!Rodgers. It's a natural direction for his character to take, given what's going on in this country.

The whites of this generation must be taught to step aside and surrender, leaving the way open for the true inheritors of America - African Americans and Hispanics.

Those who say otherwise are just clinging to the 1950's.

Tony's thing is that he's a repentant dick, he can stumble and fail and do stupid shit but that doesn't ruin the core of his character.

Steve's thing is that he's perfect, always does the right thing and knows what's best.

Someone imperfect can always be forgiven, but someone perfect can never be perfect again once broken.

Captain America is done, at least as we knew him.

+1 Man. Really well thought out.

>Seems to me that Marvel has permanently ruined one of the most iconic comic book heroes for the sake of boosting short term sales.- 15 posts and 4 image replies shown.
sounds like just another Wednesday at Marvel

I thought liberals were into socialism. Why do they complain?

X d

Here's the problem: casuals that will never know the difference. There will be a notable portion of the casual fanbase that will think now and forever that Cap is a Nazi, regardless of if the cube changes everything or not.

There are still people that I work with who think Thor (male, original Thor) was transformed into a girl.

National socialism was just a buzzword in 1930's germany, it never had anything to do with actual socialism.

He's already killed him?

I don't know. Wanda still hasn't lived down Decimation in the eyes of quite a few comic readers just like how Tony hasn't lived down Civil War, Carol hasn't lived down Avengers 200, Civil War and now Civil War II and Peter hasn't lived down OMD. This could be something that sticks to Cap's history in the eyes of the readers for quite some time

Now you're making me sad, user. Why does Marvel continue to do this? Don't they know that people don't like it when you ruin a beloved character's moral code for the sake of "changing the status quo"?

Whatever it happened in the last months and for the few next, time traveler Cable will be the solution.
And not just for Cap.

I think this is where DC has an advantage over Marvel.

DC would never turn Superman actually evil in the main continuity, but the Elseworlds label allows them to play with the idea with Overman and Injustice.

Nazi Cap should have been in an out of continuity miniseries.

What I find bs about this event is the fact that mind controlling water were capable of affecting Thor and Vision.

Because they think anger = sales

But I think what's been happening is that there's a real danger of Disney intervening so there's been ABC news report asking readers to wait and see.

This. The hate would be so much less, if not non-existent if it was.

>American excellence and courage.
>Trading with Nazis in war time.

>Can Captain America ever recover?

Yes, probably, they just need to sweep it under the rug and never talk about it once the story is over.

Very rarely will Iron Man get called out for either being Kang's murderous flunky or for building the fascist infrastructure of Civil War (in universe that is)

Honestly, the closest parallel would probably be the time Thor conquered the entire world and created a theocratic absolute monarchy, especially since in all likelihood this will end with just as much of a complete undo of the storyline as the Reigning.

I mean, hell. The recovered from Superior Spider-Man didn't they?

No, I think some of the Nazis did have socialist leanings, but they were the ones Hitler had murdered on the Night of the Long Knives.

they haven't recovered from fucking OMD

He's a fictional character, of course he can recover.

Stop taking fictional characters so seriously.

We jump ship to Captain Barbell

Hitler literally referred to Marxism and Marxist-Leninism in particular as being a Jewish conspiracy.

Marx and Marxism are like the word Kafkaesque. People don't know what they mean and just use them to sound clever.

This is why I unironically think that Marx, in particular Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto should be taught in all schools. The Manifesto is one of the most important and influential non religious books I can think of. It literally informed the 20th century and yet so often you see people talk about Marx with clearly no fucking clue what they're talking about.

Not taught in a "here is what you should believe" way. In a "this is what its actually about" way. So people can actually be informed.

And no I'm not a socialist or a communist. I'm not even left wing, ignorance just bothers the hell out of me

>he is not gay
DROPPED

Of course he can. in 5 years time his comics will be going along as usual. Sure every now and then someone will bring it up, but mostly it'll get ignored. Just like the Clone Saga

>mostly it'll get ignored. Just like the Clone Saga
didn't we just have a big dumb Spider-man crossover about the Clone Saga

Which I guarantee will get ignored next time they decide to try bringing the clone saga back up.

Just like how they ignore most stories other than the Phoenix Saga every time they use the Phoenix.

Yes. All they have to do is go balls to the wall Captain 'Murica. Just as dumb and over the top as possible.

Honestly, I think the best option at this point might be to reveal that Hydra-Cap is a clone that Hydra had replace the real one at some point; then have him beat the snot out of Hydra-Cap.

That or just say it's an alternate universe. Either works.

You must be new to comics.

Nothing is permanent. Iron Man's a fascist bad guy running a police state for realsies? Doesn't matter, just throw Osborn in as his successor and reboot his brain. Scarlet Witch killed a bunch of Avengers for literally no raisin? Doesn't matter, just fucking ignore it and then try and bring her back as a means of showing how the X-Men are fucking lunatics now.

The X-Men are fucking lunatics now? Doesn't matter, just keep publishing 25 books a month for their faggoty fans and call it even.

Wonder Woman keeps snapping necks? Doesn't matter, she's made of clay, no she's not, yes she is, no she's not, Donna Troy's her daughter/her clone/made of clay/her au self/her au self made of clone clay. Just try not to make her wear pants and nobody's going to give two shits.

Batman's a ridiculously OP demivillian? Doesn't matter, just do some full and double page spreads of mostly black because of that fucking cape and have him beat down but survive by chance sometimes and everybody's going to forget that time he used a gun to shoot a dude who literally eye beamed him simultaneously but Batman dodged because that's what they teach in detective ninja correspondence courses.

The people from the Walking Dead are all totally irredeemable assholes or just utterly fucking deluded or both and everything is fucked all over and nothing ever gets better? Doesn't matter, just keep printing floppies with variants like the big boys do and your sales won't dip and you can keep on selling big fat glossy trades to fans of the tv show who only ever buy the first couple of volumes before tapping out.

Everything has its ups and downs. Secret Empire #0 topped last month's sales and fuck, even Boom put out like 20+ comics.

tl;dr sales margins are much lower than you'd think, nobody really matters in comics

Batman didn't dodge the Omega Sanction you living meme

No. They not only went shock value but they went TIMETRAVEL RETROACTIVE SECRET NAZI WORLD HISTORY DOUBLE AGENT shock value.

It will now be IMPOSSIBLE in ANY incarnation, ANY universe, to not automatically assume that captain america is not secretely a Nazi unless it is SPECIFICALLY brought up as a storyline in that universe or incarnation.

Because now their "prime" universe Captain America was secretely a Nazi the whole time, and pretending not to be, in every past Captain America story.

Its not that its an "indelible stain" even, but that the cloth that makes up Captain America was revealed to be a swastika the whole time, and that the "stain" is the American Flag.

Nah, not yet

Maybe if he kicks a puppy, tells Falcon to get in the back of the quinjet, and tries to molest Ms Marvel while spouting racial slurs then yea probably no one will care about him after that.

Isn't this like every other hero vs hero event Marvel does?

no because this time it's hero vs. villain only one of the villains used to be a hero.

We have the MCU to save him.

OH silly user they have probably because they've been digging into all the what if stories.

But Evans is probably going to retire from the role soon-ish.

Not just a hero; THE hero. Up to this point in time there's been very few times that one could argue Steve was on the wrong side of any fight or team so long as he believed in the cause.

But this time Steve thinks he's in the right, because of Cosmic cube shenanigans, which is why the other heroes are so shocked and so worried about surviving. Steve had months of in-universe time to set up all the chess pieces, and when he finally did the public reveal, he kicked half of the cosmic power-level superheroes off the planet, stuck all of NYC inside a magic bubble - which has even more superheroes and Doctor Strange - and just has to deal with a handful of B and C-tier superheroes.

Arguably the strongest heroes left not under his control are the Champions kids and AI Tony Stark, who's programmed himself to be rocking a constant buzz because holy shit, Captain America's a bad guy and you have to now defeat one of the greatest tactical minds in the Marvel Universe when he has the upper hand.

Steve's morals are still intact, and he feels conflicted with "using the rod," but knows that he has to, which is why the Rick Jones killing was so public; that his offer of mercy is sincere, but if you deny it, he will show no mercy and kill anyone, even his closest friends.

Here's the thing about how they did it in that era though. The clickbaity "Cap turns Nazi, how will he get out of this one!" Story lasts about 2 issues if I remember correctly? It's a cliffhanger with him still brainwashed, and then Bucky helps him out of it in the next issue. Even if they had outrage culture as bad as ours, there would be barely enough time to mount that outrage. Modern Marvel can't bring themselves to exercise that kind of restraint. Everything has to be a big new controversial status quo culminating in an event where a bunch of heroes fight each other, which ultimately ends up resetting everything to the long-term safe previous status. They're acting like they're counting on the outrage movement to give them attention, and they ride it sometimes for a whole year, and they expect that this won't breed ill will in the long term, even though if you look at sales, it already is.

The era of Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie looks great, so I am hyped for it as well. Also, Chris won't leave the MCU for good...he is the embodiment of Steve Rogers and he will be forever associated to the role.

Besides, his non-MCU career died long ago.

Snowpiercer was GOAT and there's also the screen adaptation of Moffat's Jekyll.

My guess is after the third or forth Avengers movie Chris will "retire" from being an active combatant on the Avengers squad and retreat to a trainer/planning role as he trains up the next generation of Avengers.

Similar things should also happen to Hemsworth and Downey Jr., where Iron Man provides the funds and buildings for the new Avengers group, and Thor only gets called in for cosmic threats.

It's a lot easier to tear something down than building something new from the ground up. It can take hours to build a complex setup for dominoes, but only seconds to bring it all down.

Real talk, what the fuck happened to What if stories and elseworlds tales? Sure they were mostly fucking shit, but some of them were fun.

Dead.

See? Without the MCU he's nothing.

DC had a whole event centered around Elseworlds recently

Marvel still does them after events

I mean, he'll be able to roll in that royalties money for the rest of his life, and if he's smart with how he's used his earnings so far, he's set to just do whatever.

>Marvel
>giving royalties

>if he's smart with how he's used his earnings so far
He won't. Remember that shit movie he made? Neither does anyone

Made him worthy, and gave him Whor's hammer

He's gay now

Full gay?

For Falcons black cock