The only likable character in the trilogy is a nazi school shooter

>The only likable character in the trilogy is a nazi school shooter
How did they accomplish that?

pure accident
they can't write for shit

Because Nazi school shooters are kino

we just don't know

He and Rey are the only characters that are both interesting and have a real motivation, and him being powerful is believable, unlike her.

TLJ ruined Finn and bastardized Poe.

This. But let’s not forget the qt A Wing pilot, Tallie. I liked her

Did you just put Rey and interesting into same fucking sentence?

I get enraged looking at that fucking image. WHO THE FUCK WAS SNOKE YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!11111111

After TFA you could say she was uninteresting and she kinda was, but after TLJ you have to be a retard to say it.

Because you relate to him.

The only time Rey is remotely interesting is when she's interacting with Kylo

Because they made all the intended heroes too perfect.

>inb4 mary-sue, SJW, sexism, reverse-sexism, reverse-reverse-sexism, etc.

It's true, the main heroes are too perfect. They're either too good at everything, or too idealized, or a combination of both. It makes them feel more like caricatures than actual characters, and therefore hard to get invested in. Like, look at how the movie treats - as a random example - Rose, in comparison to Han in the old films. It's obvious the filmmaker loves Rose too much and really, really wants us to like her too; and it paradoxically makes it harder to like her because it feels like the movie is trying too hard to make her likeable.

Kylo is probably the only non-legacy character who isn't having his dick sucked non-stop, which makes him the most likeable by default (albeit still not really likeable on his own accord).

>nazi

I think she is. Her arc in the island was pretty cool, I loved how she and Kylo formed a force connection and she actually decided to drop Luke and go meet him. Plus, the fact that her parents are no one, and she realized that and moved forward is a nice little development, more than she had in the previous film. When he told her that she was always looking for a father figure it made sense, and she decided to let go now.

Because no one likes niggers and women.

Progressives have such a distorted view of what constitutes desirable or undesirable human qualities that they accidentally give the audience the opposite impression of the characters that they intended to give.

Admiral Holdo for instance, would have been framed as a villain in any other movie- but progressive morality is so thoroughly inverted that they can't see that they wrote a villain and framed her as a hero.

>yfw the First Order are a bunch of socialists and the Resistance have weapons because they refused to follow government orders to giving up their guns

tad offtopic, but does someone have the gifs/webms of that awful battle coreography of snoke's bodyguards, especially right at the beginning? can't seem to find them for the life of me. cheers mates.

They better no kill him and turns good

If we get another Vader bullshit death redemption scene I'm walking the fuck out.

>I'm walking the fuck out

They already have your money. You'll come back because you're a good drone.

>Surprisingly good acting
>Character is male so the writers don't make him a Mary Sue
>Reminiscent of Zuko from A:TLA
>Is a bad guy descended from the good guys so the writers were forced to give him a backstory
>His lightsaber triggers turbo autist SW purists
>Completes his character arc one movie early, which is the only surprising thing in the series
>Is a white guy cucking a black guy in a disney film
Kylo Ren is based.

>Kylo
>Whiny pissant who kills his own dad because he's so afraid of being a decent human being
> is gifted control of an Empire by pure act of plot
> Good
... Seriously?

are you saying you will vacate the theater at the end of the movie?
holy shit user that's bold...

I have no idea why people think that Holdo did anything wrong. If Poe wasn't a main hero character in a star wars movie you'd all congratulate Holdo for not giving into the awkward, out of place demands of a proven reckless, recently demoted subordinate officer that has no business even being on the bridge.

Instead, because we the audience know that Poe is a good guy we expect Holdo to treat him accordingly because that's what people do when talking to hero good guy characters in movies.

No particular order.

>TLJ ruined Finn and bastardized Poe.
Both of these characters were literally fucking garbage the moment they appeared, let alone after 5 minutes of solid pure shit characterization.

She's a nobody with maximum powers and maxillary prognathism. Her character is 1-dimensional. She is a disgusting snicker-licker that should be gassed not celebrated.

...

See

This was really really solid

kek

>I have no idea why people think that Holdo did anything wrong.
Because you're a sub-idiot. It's been explained enough that even regular idiots would understand.

Rey is good too

>How did they accomplish that?

Mixture of good performance, understandable motivations, realistic flaws, and some empathetic actions. It isn't identity politics or anything stupid like that, he's just a pretty well written character and unlike Rey we have no clue if he's going to live or not because he doesn't have Rey's plot armor so we are more invested in what happens to him because the stakes are higher.

>I only care about Kylo because he is a white male like myself

Okie dokie

>that guard that attempts to poke Rey

She led terribly. She talked mostly in metaphors. She gave unnecessary dressing downs in a desperate situation. She kept any 'plan' (which was a desperation play all along) secret until morale dropped to the point that a literal fucking mutiny happened. Even after that point she didn't give up her desperation play. It was clear neither Holdo nor her writers understood what it means to be a good leader.

Poe is the guy who obliterated the Death Star ^2 a few hours ago and the reckless actions that got him demoted are the only reason the rebel's fleet doesn't get annihilated the moment they're out of hyperspace.

Holdo's nebulous message of hope beyond the dawn or some shit was so unconvincing they had deserters left and right, and hiding her plan from the next in command when the enemy has already performed a decapitating strike on your side is completely stupid.

>Rey
>Interesting
Pick one and only one. As for Kylo, Driver's acting skills are his only saving grace.

What that has to do with anything I said?

She was literally self-delusional to the point where she needed to get back to Jakku to wait for parents that she fully knew where never coming back for her because she had abandonment issues. It's the same reason that Finn leaving her to run away with those people from Maz's castle triggered her to start hearing herself screaming as a child and wander down to luke's lightsaber.

Rey is a crazy person that also has massive force powers.

>She isn't related to a skywalker therefore she can't have force abilities

Fucking no one was related to force users in the prequels and you had tens of thousands of Jedi. This "force lineage" stuff is bullshit.

Rey is the most boring, unlikable, uninteresting Mary Sue of the new Trilogy.

You came to the conclusion that Marey Sue is crazy because she waited for her parents? She doesn't seem crazy to me, as well as the rest of the SW cast who instantly falls in love when
anyone of it sees her.

Driver is spinning gold out of the shit he's given, I wouldn't go quite so far as to say Kylo is a great character or anything. His lightsaber style is pretty fucking neat-o though

There was no reason for her to assume a mutiny was going to happen and there still isn't a compelling reason beyond "Poe is a good guy, he should get answers" as to why Holdo has any obligation to tell him what the plan may or may not be.

People seem to be justifying this backwards.

>there was a mutiny
>there wouldn't have been a mutiny if Holdo had been nicer to Poe
>therefore Holdo was wrong for not being nice to Poe

adam looks like my sicilian cousin. does he have italian origins?

She's waiting for parents that she knows will never come back, so yeah, she is pretty fucking crazy. That's the whole point of self-delusion, she knows what she is doing won't work, but she keeps doing it anyway.

It doesn't matter what she assumes about a mutiny. She wasn't a bad leader because she didn't see the mutiny coming. She's a bad leader because she acted like a pompous cunt on a power trip.
Holdo has an obligation because it's a desperation play in a desperation situation with morale extremely and obviously low with her at the lead.

The only people defending Holdo are the people who also don't understand that leadership comes with an obligation to those you lead. They think leadership means 'Oh you are the ultimate, unquestioned, arbiter'

>rey is interesting
Lmao, she a fucking awful character, her mtoivations make no sense, and her personality is more flat than her boobies

Because she is a teenager stuck in the middle of nowhere, they were literally the only way for her to get out of this shit.

Ok, fuck you guys I'm gonna give them my shekels because I have to see this fight on the big screen with real audio.

It's really bad dude. The audio isn't even good and what you see there is sped up.

I don't think there is enough story justification for Holdo to have given the plan to Poe with what we were presented. You also have to factor in that that whole sub-plot is really about Poe making the wrong decisions and having to learn lessons about alternatives to rash actions. You can argue that it's a cheap storywriting trick to withhold information, but in terms of the actual presentation of the scenario and the characters I just flat out disagree that Poe had any business at all knowing anything. Again he's a captain, probably of the fighter squadron that was just obliterated, he has zero reason to be part of the command inner circle, and since he has zero involvement with the transports he doesn't even need to be briefed. We just want him to be briefed because he's the hero character.

>She's waiting for parents that she knows will never come back, so yeah, she is pretty fucking crazy
Can we assume that everyone in Star Wars is crazy then, by your definition? Finn is crazy for escaping the First Order, Poe is crazy for doing the shit he does for the Res...Rebels, Kylo is crazy for killing his fellow students, etc, etc. Wow, such likeable characters, much complexity, so fucking crAZyYYYy.

If you know that dragons aren't real, but you really like dragons so you're convinced that a dragon will appear in your bedroom if you just believe hard enough are you sane or crazy?

Firstly, she didn't tell any of her command the plan. Secondly, everybody involved needs to know. That's how it works. Including Poe. Thirdly, essentially telling Poe your head is up your own ass is how you convince him to go do stupid shit. A leader that doesn't understand the people she leads.
If it was a full sized army making actual big plays, maybe need to know is a real thing. This is Holdo withholding a desperation play from her command over like 30 people and a half dozen ships.

It's terrible leading, it's not sympathetic in the slightest. She does not treat her subordinates well, does not improve moral, does not coordinate them at all on screen. She does nothing but play the stronk wymen dressing down Poe for 45 seconds in the middle of a fucking operation gone wrong.

Looks like michael wincott.

he looks like a jew more actually

will they ever explain snoke

God I want him to ravage my pusy

Are you retarded? How do you go about comparing Marey's parents to dragons? She had a hope her parents will come back, nothing fucking unusual for a little child stuck in a planet in the middle of nowhere. Also, it seemed like an important plot point in the first movie that Soyboy Johnson dropped in the second one.

crazy
ADJECTIVEcraziest, crazier
informal
1Mad, especially as manifested in wild or aggressive behaviour.

Marey seems to fit perfectly the definition of a crazy character, does she?

>>She isn't related to a skywalker therefore she can't have force abilities
>Fucking no one was related to force users in the prequels and you had tens of thousands of Jedi. This "force lineage" stuff is bullshit.
I wonder how fucking retarded you have to be to say this. Literally nobody anywhere has ever said Skywalkers are the only ones with Force powers. Rey's power level is equivalent to the Jedi Masters, who all have literally decades of training and learning in the Jedi way. Rey uses Jedi Mind Trick in TFA almost immediately after learning that the "myths" of the Jedi even fucking exist. That's a power that's only used by
>Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Master (and he failed once)
>Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master
>Luke Skywalker, experienced Jedi Knight
Then if you want to look at shit like Clone Wars, even fucking Mace Windu couldn't reliably use the Mind Trick. It's fucking bullshit and saying it outs you as having no understanding of the setting you're trying to argue about.

not really, he looks east europan. like a slav

But it was snoke who connected them.

he's mostly Anglo in reality

>Audience favorite in OT: Darth Vader
>Audience favorite in prequels: Palpatine
This shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

>Firstly, she didn't tell any of her command the plan.

We don't know that, Leia & Beak-nose seemed to know quite a lot about the plan, and all the transport pilots needed to be briefed at the very least, and the transport fuel reports were all over the screens before Poe even showed up to yell about it.

>Secondly, everybody involved needs to know. That's how it works. Including Poe.

Once the plan is going to be executed sure, but we don't know when the actual orders were going to be handed down or when the briefing was going to happen.

>Thirdly, essentially telling Poe your head is up your own ass is how you convince him to go do stupid shit. A leader that doesn't understand the people she leads.

Part of military service is respecting the chain of command regardless of how much or how little you trust your commanders. There is a reason why mutiny is severely punished. There is zero justification beyond the most outrageous circumstances for a mutiny to occur.

Again I just don't see the justification. I'm not arguing that you have to like Holdo, I don't even think she is that swell of a leader, but I don't agree that this is all unjust and out of left field in terms of actions.

And again, all of this is a framing device to make you want to side with Poe, only to have the rug pulled out from under you to realize that Poe's "fire from the hip, fuck authority" mentality (remember he didn't listen to leia either who is a very different leader than Holdo) isn't always the right solution.

Does anyone actually care about the first order and rebellion? They should make the next movie completely about Rey and Kylo.

Only complex character + good actor.

by that point you probably don't give a fuck about the movie anymore and are bored out of your mind

The entire cast aside from Rey and Kylo are pretty much irrelevant at this point. General crybaby weasley is not a compelling villain.

Vader is a fucking samurai with a laser sword and Palpatine is a keikaku god.

Or you could pay attention to the movies and notice the force has a will of its own and grants power for the sake of maintaining balance.

>Does anyone actually care about the first order and rebellion?

No, but I'm an old-EU fan that really liked that it took decades for the New Republic to take power, and that the Empire split up into a bunch of Moffs and Warlords using their remnants of massive fleets and millions of troops to keep fighting for years and years making the struggle to form that new government a long-term and uphill struggle.

The new-canon made the defeat of the empire a flick of a light switch and the founding of a new republic just as easy. It's very unsatisfying and unsurprising that it all just circled around into the same conflict from the OT. Creative bankruptcy doesn't end at "slightly better x-wings, lighstabers with hilts, and 'palpatine, but he's even more nasty looking"

Oh, you mean that thing Rian made up just for this movie?

This image raised my blood pressure.

How is he a Nazi?

two major problems with your rationale
a) they're not a traditional military. They're a "resistance' and "blindly follow authority" runs counter to them plus any commander worth his salt would give their crew hope they're not just dying pointlessly
and
b) You are the last shred of the Rebellion and last hope to fight the First Order. Imagine being chased by a fleet and super dreadnought as your medical and support ships are destroyed and you're all crammed into the last capital ship. They killed all your leadership and put your equivalent to General Patton/George Washington into a fucking coma. Your interim leader now that the chain is smashed to shit is seemingly doing nothing and has given up. You know they can track you in hyperspace, and they have been hammering your shields for 14 hours as you run out of fuel and will be dead and space
I'd call that outrageous circumstances

And was the entire point of Anakin in the prequel trilogy.

no u

He's fucking a white male.

We were notified on screen when the ships start getting fueled. It was not early on.
We saw her tell nobody, we got no evidence on screen of anybody knowing. Leia also knowing about the planet (maybe, inferred) is the only 'evidence' and she was in a coma during this period so.

We saw exactly when the briefing and orders happened. The ships started getting refueled later on from orders and then the people were notified of it.

>Part of military service is respecting the chain of command regardless of how much or how little you trust your commanders. There is a reason why mutiny is severely punished.
This has nothing to do with Holdo being a dogshit garbage leader. This has nothing to do with her failure to play her part as a leader.

>There is zero justification beyond the most outrageous circumstances for a mutiny to occur.
Ok how is this for outrageous circumstances
>Barely got out alive
>90% losses already
>enemy using tech never seen before
>dead within hours
>hopelessly outmatched

>Your brand fucking new leader talks down to you for 45 seconds in metaphor and gives no information whatsoever when you ask how to deal with this outrageous and unexpected situation


Poe was in the right. Holdo gave every signal that she had her head up her own ass. You can say "OOH BUT THINGS WERE DIFFERENT OFF SCREEN" but that's a load of bullshit and you know it.
Additionally, if you're meant to be sympathetic to Poe here, why would you interpret it as "fire from the hip, fuck authority"
I mean, he asked multiple times, he tried to get orders beyond "I'm just gonna panic and leave us here without a plan, but my ego is too big too tell you that"
He operated within the command structure even going around Holdo. The rest of the ship was onboard enough to do their part such that Poe didn't have to violate his duties and the mutiny could be kept secret.

Oh, you mean the literal Chosen One, the product of an unspecified but likely centuries long prophecy, who is also heavily implied to have been straight up created by a fucking Sith Lord? That Anakin?

Yeah.

Talk about diversity hiring. imagine all the competent people that were fired because of this shit

plus the whole "Poe learns to work with authority" falls apart when you consider
no one had to send in the bombing fleet that got destroyed setting of this """""""arc""""""" as they were multiple admirals present
his plan and concerns are perfectly valid and follow logic and reason
and theres no real payoff for it either. No "I disagree but I'm gonna see the plan through" because, like most of the movie, it was pointless filler

>I'm an old-EU fan that really liked that it took decades for the New Republic to take power, and that the Empire split up into a bunch of Moffs and Warlords using their remnants of massive fleets and millions of troops to keep fighting for years and years making the struggle to form that new government a long-term and uphill struggle.

Holy shit, this. They didn't need to recycle the plot of the OT when they already had so much potential for long conflicts and lots of back and forth sitting right there. I mean we have the Remnant, the Pentastar Alignment, the Empire of the Hand...

Also that still had to train for a decade at the height of jedi culture with masters to be anywhere near good.

Nice job proving yourself retarded then, since the entire point of Anakin's character is that he's an anomaly to the set rules of the setting.

Additionally, Holdo's shit authority is what sabotaged her plan in the first place and got dozens of escape ships killed. If anything Poe should have far less faith in rebel authority now. I mean, you try to be a good soldier, get talked down to, survive by random chance alone because of a bad plan forced from bad decisions.

plus the whole
>you lost the whole bombing fleet CAPTAIN
falls apart when you realize they, and the ships, would've all died anyway so who gives a fuck

Yea.

On another note did you notice how it seems to be Schrodinger's shields in this movie? Good guys have inpenetrable shields on plot important ships only. Bad guys don't have shields on their largest star destroyer ever made? Then suddenly shields are back for snoke's ship? It's skitzophrenic

That is exactly the point I was making. You agree that there can be anomalies so what's hard to believe about Rey being one? Or at least harder to believe than her being Luke's lost son and all the characters and directors lying about it.

No. How the fuck could I when we know nothing about them? In fact, it's kind of interesting in the books: the Republic disbands their own army and ousts Leia for being the daughter of mecha space Hitler. But we don't know shit about that, and Leia never mentions it in any of the movies.

Minor extra thing to like about Kylo is the lightsaber style they give him being pretty interesting. He pretty much always uses only one hand instead of two and even in movies where he's not injured he swings that thing around like a brute, slashing into the floor and dragging the blade. It really gives him a feeling of raw power.

This. But now the divide is larger than ever. Kylo is the only decent character in the entire nu-trilogy who gets decent screentime.

From the perspective of everybody in the resistance Holdo's plan was "keep running until we run out of fuel and die"

There was no good reason for her to keep the actual plan secret beyond movie plot reasons. It wasn't a secret mission, it didn't depend on someone not knowing for it's chance of success - in fact inadvertently not telling Poe sets off the chain of events that result in the plans failure.

It was a pretty stupid plan though, regardless. Just sneak into the closest abandoned rebel fort and just hope the New Order doesn't do the obvious thing and check it out.

>I don't think there is enough story justification for Holdo to have given the plan to Poe

Aside from there being no cost to doing so because there's no chance of anything bad happening as a result of telling him? Seriously, what would have been the consequence of telling him?

I can't believe you forgot Matt Martin in the story group. This soyboy is actually a member.

Why did they send the bombing crew to die against the dreadnought when they could have just sent one ship to hyper-speed ram it?

You just need to tell him theres a plan in place and that it's not hopeless
rather than just being a bitch about it