Why is the average level of art quality for comics dropping so hard?

Why is the average level of art quality for comics dropping so hard?

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Also IIRC after John Romita Sr retired, Marvel (or rather Ike) did away with the Romita's Raiders crew that usually fixed up mistakes. Add to this the reduction in number of editors and that's what ends up happening.

It's not really dropping. It's just bad in ways you're not used to. That under-inked style in particular from your example is getting more popular and makes stuff like in your example look worse than they should.

But also you likely do not have enough knowledge to critique.

I think a better OP would've been "Why is the average level of writing quality for comics dropping so hard?"

We have those all the time though

Quinones is an okay artist,his work in America is the victim of abysmal coloring and inking,marvel needs some serious quality control

>how do you market artists today with Wizard magazine?
Well, Marvel, there's this thing called the World Wide Web, also known as the Internet. I hear a lot of people hang out on the Internet.

There's still some oddness like Spider-Man's thighs in the first panel, but yeah. It looks much more professional here.

ARTIST BTFO
It's true though. Art can't carry a shit story, but a good story can carry shit art

Yeah he's not great but his art is decent,the colorist should get shot it's clearly an MS paint job.You'd think someone in the big 2 could check up on this kind of stuff,a botched colorist can ruin any artwork

It depends on the manner of shitness, a well-written story that is visually incomprehensible in flow is not a good story. Visual storytelling is still on the artist.

But I do agree that good art being wasted on a bad script is generally worse than good writing with unaesthetic (but readable) art.

Shit like this is what depresses me the most. I go back and read shit like The Long Halloween/TDKR/Annihilation/WWH and it has nice art. Art that looks like it was drawn by a professional.

This makes me want to puke blood. Shit character and writing aside, why would anyone even think to buy a book containing art like this? This is so awful and it combined with the absolute dogshit Marvel has out now is what will send the company broke. Say what you want about CWII, but at least I could look at the art. DC are doing okay with Jim Lee, Capullo, Daniels and Fabok.

Christ, is there anything Marvel even has left?

Oooooooh! Marvel artists are going to need some vivaporù for that burn!

It's not. The problem is that comics are a business now more than ever and the big companies only concerned with the money realized that most people really don't notice the art at all. They just want to see the further adventures of their favorite movie characters.

That looks like shit too.

I'm a little forgiving because the release schedule is kind of hell on everyone. I can understand not prioritizing every panel of every book, but when the entire issue is sloppy someone needs to go over it again even if it means there will be a delay.

I don't want Image style hiatuses but there has to be a happy medium.

It really varies.

How do you explain manga having better art on average despite also being a business? (And usually the artist is also the writer, it's not split up like often is in western comics)

>But also you likely do not have enough knowledge to critique.

lol shut the fuck up, if it looks bad, it looks bad.

At marvel if say daredevil,Moon knight and Picheli spiderman are the most decent in terms of art

Artstyles are more varied but the quality absolutely has not dropped. You have to be looking at things with rose tinted glasses because there have always been plenty of books with just shitty, lazy phoned-in art, especially in the last twenty years.

>And usually the artist is also the writer
You don't know what you're talking about.

some what?

With the introduction of Digital Art inkers are dying out.

While many artists using digital know how to ink, those who dont really suffer from not having another skilled person between them and publication.

Vick's VapoRub in spicanese

This is not true at the publishing level. Comics people basically don't see that movie money, especially not at Marvel where they fail to even capitalize on the popularity of those characters (stuff like no Iron Man collections in the entire top 750 of bookstore sales last year unless you count Civil War). It should not affect their output.

I've tried to read some classic Red Sonja lately, but the coloring was so bad that I had to drop it.

The problem is that you need to understand why it looks bad. If you can't communicate that, this kind of conversation goes nowhere.

> average level
> posts only one pic

great job making your case, OP. I'll gladly take modern marvel art over the terrible-looking 90s stuff or pre-NOW housefest.

I'm from Sup Forums, I know a shit ton more than you do. On average the writer and artist are the same person, with the weekly mainstream stuff usually having a couple of assistant artist for tedious stuff.

At least from my knowledge from Jump,manga art has too be great to get a chance of catching on and getting attention,this is true for some indie western books as well.Big 2 comics main draw is the character or the writer,ergo why Grant Morrison can get teamed up with a shit artist but still get high selling numbers but a greatly illustrated top cow book will come in low,it's the nature of the industry.

We all read comics here, no need to take the time to do that. This is a discussion, not a debate.

Puerto Ricanese. Mexicans use Aloe Vera.

Hi tumblr!

>We all read comics here
[citation needed]

>greatly illustrated
>top cow
Pick one.

>I'm from Sup Forums
>I know a shit ton more than you do.

>Aloe Vera
Better than any aftershave.

The citation is this thread, if you don't read comics feel free to escort yourself off the premises.

...

> this is a discussion

the bait OP says otherwise.

Whatever interest I had in arguing with you went away with
>I'm from Sup Forums

>Actually got scared off
Guess you do have some brains.

the City of Heroes comic had decent art

;_;7

Are user discussing the art in today's comics? Yes? Then it's a discussion, either contribute or leave, bitch.

Lol dude look at Attack On Titan. Utter shit art pushed in your face 24/7 because it sells. And we're lucky enough to only have the good stuff imported and that garbage still clogs up our shelves.

>triggered Marvel shill

He isn't wrong. Superhero Comics have always viewed their art team as work horses they can replace and interchange as they wish. But last I checked the next word after "Marvel" was "Comics".

Maybe you just need to read better shit.

That's cause of the anime adaption that it got big in the west.
Also as medicore as AoT's art is, it's not the norm and better than something like modern Squirrel girl

I'm still heartbroken that Death Vigil didn't do well. I love sejic's art!

AoT is closer to the norm in manga than SG is to comics.

>triggered
>shill
These word have lost all meaning thanks to retards like you.

> are anons discussing the art in today's comics?

no

colorist did all the work here tbqh

The later stuff maybe, but not earlier on.

>>Actually got scared off
Raw autism is far too dangerous to approach directly.

Memeing aside, it's painfully obvious you can't be convinced of other things besides your own opinion so why bother?

>guess you do have some brains.

user, tell me, are you in the art business?
Do you know how things work internally other than "muh manga n shiet r true art"

No?
Then stop being an obnoxious faggot.

I think the reason why is the lack of caring for the book the person is working on. Joe and Paolo Rivera did the coloring and inks. Look at any of their other pieces, Paolo is a skilled oil painter and his dad is a great inker. But with this book they shit the bed. And I think it's because they just don't care about it.

This writing is fucking dreadful

>a good story can carry shit art
No

i think if it was inked better it wouldn't look so unfinished.

how do you even begin drawing those buildings?
seems like a waste of time.

sure it can, look at Morrison's Action Comics

Are stupid? That was a rhetorical question you moron. Also:
These anons are discussing it, dipshit.

Yes, but it depends on what levels of shit we're talking about here.

>look at Morrison's Action Comics
Not with Rags Morales on art I won't

I think Matt Wagner's Sandman Mystery Theatre pushed it a bit. By I still liked it. At the story I read about the lesbian that got pulled into a crime cult or something.

Sure I can, you just happen to be wrong so it'd be silly of me to change my mind.

>Hey dude the sky is green
>uh no it isn't
>it's painfully obvious you can't be convinced of other things besides your own opinion so why bother?

>waste of time

Extra detail doesn't equal waste of time.

God OP! That's just how REAL women look like!

> Sandman Mystery Theatre
> bad art
Guy Davis is a treasure

but it doesn't look that good. plus most people will look at it for 2 seconds.

user your opinions are not facts

VERY triggered.

Gee user it's almost like people are credited when they do work and it's easy to look up said credits on this thing called the WORLD WIDE WEB

>Sure I can, you just happen to be wrong
>not a single argument has been posted
>he's declaring himself the autistic winner
Just go back to Sup Forums. I'm sure other sperges will entertain you for the next couple of hours.

You didn't make an argument either, so I mean...

I remember specifically that the style he used in the comic skirted the line of looking unfinished and sketchy. Although, I haven't read it in a while, I need to buy a copy one day.

well, there's a couple reasons for that
1) Manga is black and white. Comics are typically full color. A lot can go wrong in the coloring stage.
2) Manga is typically fairly simple visually, and the artist is drawing the same dozen or so people for extended periods of time. Comics typically has dozens of characters constantly changing over a short period of time, with sometime complex and unique costumes.
3) Manga artists generally have about 4 hours off a week, and tend to work 16 hour days. Comics is a 9-5 job, with 8-10 hour days at most for artists. That's why you'll have up to five guys working on a comick. Pencils, inks, colors, etc. At any stage, all it takes is one fuck up.

Comparing the quality of the two is pointless. It's like comparing a guy who makes a rowboat by himself to a team of guys who make a sailboat several times larger, and saying that clearly the rowboat is of better quality.

It's not an opinion that the average mangaka is both the writer and artist for their work, it's a fact.

Go on MAL and go to some random manga, chances are the artist/writer is the same dude.

When the ridiculously too far left decided they wanted fat, ugly, weird yet uncharming designs it gave competent artists an excuse to slack off, and shitty artists an acceptance that is a detriment to their development toward a point beyond the edgy doodles of a 13 year old.

Also, being ethnically diverse doesn't mean you just take any facial feature from any race and slap it on another in some uncanny Picasso doodle. It just looks like you're too dumb to notice your own mistake, and/or believe in anthropology.

As an artist, I just want to say that very few of them are really doing anything visually interesting. I'm not sure if it's due to who they're hiring, the management or writing etc. but an artist has to do something special if they don't want to be interchangeable.

How old are you?

62, you?

There is a difference between 'ugly' art and 'bad' art. Quinones is usually rock solid, but on America he's been let down by Villarubia - a veteran of the industry - doing a really fucking horrible job. He's overindulging in colour holds (which is when a coloured layer is placed on top of a black line - see the clouds in the last panel of attached pic) and not using them smartly. Colour holds are typically used to push backgrounds further back and let foreground elements pop, but in America's case the priorities are screwed and you have holds placed confusingly across back, middle and foregrounds.

Good posts

I love Davis as much as the next guy, but his Sandman era stuff IS pretty rough sometimes.

This

the instant ability to draw became less important than the race/gender of the artist, the art suffered.

Did you even get the point I was saying?

Fuck, you really are 13 years old.

not him but your not any better

I'm not trying to win a non-existent argument, though.

The inking in America is also trash

But you are tho...

You clearly are

At least they're doing Aquaman soon.

Given that he is someone who has been around, I wonder if it's just a case of experimenting on a book that doesn't really matter.

Mocking you doesn't require winning or losing.

>people are credited when they do work
What kind of fantasy carebear world do you live in?

Generally I only really see him ink the work of his son, does he do inking in general?

I know this is hard to understand, but you can post on Sup Forums without wanting to prove your intellectual superiority among the bunch of neets.