It's like poetry

It's like poetry...

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slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/
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no... im on the wrong side of history... i was wrong to criticize it... i have changed my views on this... the last jedi is a good movie... go out and see it... this weekend... in IMAX... dont forget...

Yoda hid because he realized he wasn't powerful enough to stop Sideous. Better off staying alive long enough to train the next Jedi.

But this argument makes no sense now that the prequels have been written out of canon

this to be honest, it's all an alt-right conspiracy- the russians are behind it again

Obi-Wan wasn't in hiding, he was protecting Luke

Yoda coudn't do anything against the emperor at his age, except training a younger jedi, Luke has no excuse to hide in TLJ

Also neither Yoda nor Obi-Wan surrender and say that the jedi order must die

ben didn't just run and hide he was protecting vaders kid from the sith, in the end he faced his greatest mistake and sacrificed his life to protect Luke

>now that the prequels have been written out of canon
if only

Except Yoda and Obi-Wan were being hunted and were waiting for the right time to train Luke. TLJ Luke just gave up.

Jedi never give up, shill.

And Luke did the same with Rey, he sacrificed himself against his greatest mistake to protect her.
Don't you see how this movie is a masterpiece who will make cinematic history because it took risks? And are you blind to the fact that those risks are completely justified because they are in fact taken scene by scene from the old movies?

jedi farmer robes.

...

So lets compare to how luke acted in the EU. Yeah doesnt add up to washed up old Jake Skywalker.

>Luke's character arc in ROTJ is about being different from both Vader and Obi-Wan/Yoda
>ends up just like Obi-Wan and Yoda

ebin

Reminder that it was George's idea to make Luke run away from it all before snapping out of it and passing the torch

Reminder that George's idea for VII was that Luke would be training Kira (renamed Rey) in his Jedi Academy on Ach To.

Go fuck yourself, shill.

Wrong, dumbass.
independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-last-jedi-george-lucas-sequel-trilogy-art-book-luke-skywalker-a8122311.html
>Over the course of Episode VII, Lucas pictured Luke rediscovering his vitality and training a new Jedi. This idea was moved to Episode VIII by Kathleen Kennedy’s story developers, The Force Awakens instead making Han Solo the central mentor figure.
slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/
>In the book, we learn that one of the first meetings to visualize The Force Awakens happened on January 16, 2013 at Skywalker Ranch with George Lucas himself. Among the pieces presented at the meeting were portraits of an older Luke Skywalker training a new disciple named Kira (who was later renamed Rey). The idea was that, 30 years after the fall of the Empire, Luke had gone to a dark place and secluded himself in a Jedi temple on a new planet. The paintings show Luke meditating, reassessing his whole life.
>Apparently, the initial plan for Star Wars: Episode 7 was that Luke, over the course of that movie, would rediscover his vitality and train this new Jedi. So basically, what we got from the Rey/Luke storyline in The Last Jedi was initially supposed to be the bones for George Lucas’ Episode 7. Imagine an alternate universe where Episode 7 was Luke reluctantly training a new Jedi – it would be completely different.

>Obi-Wan went into hiding because the jedi, an order he was a part of, were hunted to near extinction and he wasn't safe anywhere with a lot of people because they would notify the empire, and he hid on Tatooine, not far from where Luke, who he believed would be the key to saving the galaxy, was being raised.
>Yoda hid for the same reason Obi-Wan did, but in a different place because he knew Obi-Wan would eventually send Luke to him to train him if he wasn't able to, and since he ended up dying, this was a sound plan
>Luke went into hiding, in his words verbatim, "to die."

>expecting me to read non-canon autism
Kys

>Lucas pictured Luke rediscovering his vitality and training a new Jedi.

This didn't happen in VIII so what's your point?

Kys.

He rediscovered his vitality at the end and gave Rey some training. Did you watch the movie? Also the point is the Punished Luke was George's idea. One of the things people have been bitching the absolute most about came from George himself.

Dishonest shill is dishonest.
Obi Wan and Yoda didn't give up , they watched over and prepared the next generation and learn new force powers to deal against the Emperor.

Meanwhile Luke gave up and went to Ahch-To to die just because.

>The First Order wasn’t actively hunting Luke in TFA

>throws lightsaber away like garbage
>I came her to die
>green titty milk
>the jedi need to die
>ignores Rey for several days
>literally only agrees to train her because of a nostalgia callback
>literally tried to kill Ben because he had the dark side in him
>stupid ass force projection for the sole purpose of trolling Kylo Ren
>dies

>I came here to die
Yeah, real noble.

Running and hiding isn't necessarily a bad or dishonorable thing. If you and maybe 4 others are the last of your kind when there was thousands it's not a bad thing to lay low and regroup. Your biggest responsibility wouldn't be heroically charging in to battle for one final hurrah, it would be making sure you could pass on the knowledge and teachings that you know for your people to survive.

>hey, you know that argument you didn't have? the argument you never made?
>i disproved it!

no one cares that he became a hermit

people cared that he tried to kill his nephew and didnt even show up for the final fight

Obi-Wan never gave up.

Yeah that's the part where he had to rediscover his vitality. Rediscover implies that it was lost. Also the Ben thing is dumb I agree with that. They could have easily just had Ben officially go dark and slaughter everyone while Luke was out getting new recruits, or on a mission, or taking a dump. There was no need to sully his hands with that part.

> Did you watch the movie?

Did you? He only went there because of Yoda, and he didn't teach Rey anything.

I liked they idea that he died in the confrontation against Ben, without Ben even knowing, and that what remains in Arch-To is actually his ghost, and decided to go there and leave clues about him being alive to keep the hope instead of revealing the truth that he was dead which could probably kill the rebellion.

It doesn't matter that he "rediscovered his vitality." The movie underused and misused Luke too much.

The difference is that the Republic was in power and on Luke's side. This would be like Vader and the Emperor going into hiding because the Rebels were hunting them. Absolutely ridiculous.

thread

Obi-Wan was protecting Luke until he was ready to become a Jedi.
Same with Yoda.
>Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough. Your uncle wouldn't allow. Afraid you'd follow old Obi-wan on some damn idealistic foolish crusade
>This one a long time have I watched. . .

So you admit that he rediscovered his vitality and heroically sacrificed himself. Also he did teach Rey things. Remember that scene with the leaf? That was him teaching her. "Reach out and feel" is pretty much all you need to do to learn the Force as far as the movies are concerned. There's no need for a Rocky training montage of it.

um no sweetie the empire was in charge of everything in tfa it's just a remake of anh

But Rey knew everything there was to know already anyways, didn't she?
>Pls halp Luke
K close your eyes Rey
>Is this Force I feel??
Yep that's Force
>Can immediately lift rocks without any further training (besides briefly peering into a mirror)

>So you admit that he rediscovered his vitality and heroically sacrificed himself.
No, are you illiterate? He only went there because Yoda bullied him into doing it.

>Also he did teach Rey things. Remember that scene with the leaf? That was him teaching her. "Reach out and feel" is pretty much all you need to do to learn the Force as far as the movies are concerned. There's no need for a Rocky training montage of it.
So what the fuck is the point of a Jedi academy if you can learn to use the Force in 5 minutes? This isn't the X-men, you're not born with super powers.

Don't forget doing the mind trick on a Stormtrooper when she barely knew what the Force even was.
Paraphrasing Razorfist here but not even Luke knew the Force could that shit before Ben Kenobi busted out the jazz hands in a New Hope and he's Darth Vader's kid.

What the fuck are the writers even doing at this point?

Except, Luke was supposed to be, and up until TLJ was, the better of them all.

She lifted a whole avalanche worth of rocks. Luke's best force feats in the movies is force choking some guards, the Jedi mind trick (which he had to train for unlike Rey) and lifting C-3PO and a chair kek.

This is some unbelievably hack shit.

>No, are you illiterate? He only went there because Yoda bullied him into doing it.
He did it because Yoda snapped him out of his funk. He moved on and was able to do what was needed. Did you miss the part where he happily proclaimed that he was not the last Jedi? Or the part where Leia and Rey sensed and verbally stated that his death was one of peace and purposed? He was glad because he passed on what was necessary.

>So what the fuck is the point of a Jedi academy if you can learn to use the Force in 5 minutes? This isn't the X-men, you're not born with super powers.
I didn't say that was all to the Force, I said that's all there is to it in the movies. As in, that's all they show. You're not going to get movies dedicated to people sitting in a circle learning the Force. It would basically be school at that point.

>He was glad because he passed on what was necessary.
At best, a day and a half's worth of training?
Oh yeah. Truly Rey is a Jedi now.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

YODA AND KENOBI WENT IN HIDING WHEN THE REPUBLIC AND THE JEDI ORDER WERE DESTROYED

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

THE EMPEROR TOOK CONTROL OF EVERYTHING AND HAD AN ARMY HUNTING ALL JEDIS

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

THE EMPEROR WAS DEFEATED AND REPUBLIC HAD RETURNED, AND LUKE WENT GAVE UP BECAUSE ONE STUDENT WENT TO THE DARK SIDE

HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AND THEN HE LEFT A MAP SO THEY COULD FIND HIM, BUT ONLY TO SAY TO WHOEVER FOUND HIM TO LEAVE HIM ALONE

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

THAN THAT WAS A TREE WITH BOOKS INSIDE, BOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKSSSSSS

AHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

YODA APPEARED AND BURNT THE TREE FOR NO REASON HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

KENOBI AND YODA TRAINED LUKE WHEN THEY SAW THE POSSIBILITY TO DEFEAT THE DARK SIDE BUT LUKE DIDN'T WANT TO TRAIN THE MOST POWERFUL FORCE USER FOR NO REASON AT ALL


HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AND THEN SOME SOYBOY SPENDS 3 HOURS ON PAINT COMPARING THEM
H
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

52%, 100M BEHIND

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GREEN MILK, PURPLE HAIR, HYPERSPACE, LAS VEGAS, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

*breaths in*


HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

>Did you miss the part where he happily proclaimed that he was not the last Jedi?
pirctured: happiness

>I said that's all there is to it in the movies. As in, that's all they show.
Even if we ignore the prequels, Obi-Wan and Yoda do far more with Luke. Hell, Yoda runs him through a whole course and sends him into a dark side nexus to face his fears. Luke doesn't do anything like that with Rey.

He gave her what training she needed. Luke had to learn a lot of things on his own, she does too. He was a guiding hand to her just like Obi-Wan and Yoda was a guiding hand to him. He still had to learn how to do things like Force Pull by himself as Obi-Wan had died after about an hour of training and he hadn't met Yoda yet.

>He gave her what training she needed.
So none? That sounds about right, MaRey Sue already knows how to use the Force in TFA with no training.

kek

unironically this

> What the fuck is the point of Jedi academy if you can learn to use the Force in 5 minutes?
Exactly this. I did not even necessarily dislike the movies, but this just feels incredibly wrong. I enjoyed 4, 5, 6 because you could see how Luke had the potential, but had to work hard to live up to it. Not only in terms of using the Force, but also in terms of emotional development by embracing the Force as not only a cool way to move rocks, but as a philosophy as a whole.

1,2 and 3 I enjoyed in that regard, because you could see what the Jedi looked like when they were thriving as a religious group, with a Council making more politically motivated decisions, using the philosophy of the Force to guide them.

All of this is missing in the reboot. For a movie with such a diverse cast, the whole plot appears te revolve around privilege. You're born with it and you'll use it. No need for training, no need for philosophical guidance. Heck you don't even need somebody to check your midi-chlorian levels and then proceed with a training that takes years and years to complete. Nope. You're born with it, no training needed, let's fucking lift rocks as if we're the X-Men and absolutely not ask questions.

Obi-Wan tells him to feel the Force and sets him up with a remote for an hour before dying. Yoda imparts good wisdom but as far as actual Force training it also boils down to feeling the Force in everything like the rock and the ship.

They could have simply had Luke going to have a talk with Ben. Snoke was in Ben's head by that point and we know the Sith can make others experience nightmares. So we just have Snoke show Ben a vision of Luke killing him in his sleep. Ben wakes to see Luke standing over him, he misjudges the situation and ignites his saber to defend himself, causing the confrontation that collapses the hut. Accomplishes the exact same goal without ruining Luke as a character.

>He gave her what training she needed
She was there for literally less than a week

nigga even the X-Men take years of practice to be competent with their abilities

>Obi-Wan tells him to feel the Force and sets him up with a remote for an hour before dying

Still more that what Luke and Rey do. And Luke couldn't do any of the shit Rey could in TFA.

>oda imparts good wisdom but as far as actual Force training it also boils down to feeling the Force in everything like the rock and the ship.
Yoda actually makes Luke practice, something that Rey apparently doesn't need to do.

>Obi-Wan tells him to feel the Force and sets him up with a remote for an hour before dying.
And guess what? Luke isn't a Jedi by the end of ANH. Fuck. He isn't even one by the beginning of RotJ.
Or did we forget thee duel on Cloud City where Luke lost his fucking hand before he went to face Vader completely unprepared.

If Rey were in that position, the writers would have had her mop the floor with him.

because*

Obiwan was watching Luke and Yoda was in hiding waiting for Obi to bring him someone to train. They both had a specific plan in place. Luke just moped.

Don't forget that during Luke's training on Dagobah in Empire how many times he fucked up.

>I don't believe it.
>That is why you fail.

Yes, this is important too. Rey never fails. Thanks for reminding me.

Also the physical training. Luke obviously extensively trained. Didn't he do a backflip or something while wearing backpack Yoda? Rey hasn't physically trained herself at all besides the whole grew up a tough scavenger thing.

>left a map only to tell whoever found him to leave him alone
kek I forgot about that. And it's not like he was "testing" Rey or anything either. He literally said he was there to die and it was only after R2 showed the Leia message clip that he changed his mind. Also remember R2? He was literally in the movie for 1 minute.

She was born this way! Why would you physically exercise when you're born with the privilege to be stronger than Yoda without any training?

>normies are actually okay with this
Spoke to my cousins at Christmas about TLJ. They acknowledged all the plot holes I brought up but they still said they liked it because and I quote: "It's just Star Wars. Star Wars has always been silly. It's not like Marvel where everything is so well planned that all the little things come together perfectly. Man, Thor [Ragnarok] was such a good movie."

...

But Luke failed in his quest, the Emperor fucking destroyed him. Daddy had to bail him out.

In fact, the more I think a bout it, the only people to get shit done in any of these movies are the Sith.

Thor WAS a good movie you autist.

>but Luke failed in his quest
His quest to bring his father back to the light? I don't know, looked like he succeeded to me.

They literally both confronted their rival and tried to stop them and then the rival forced a fight which they seemingly temporarily lost

>people still think vader actually turned good.
lololol

Millennials are defending this shit saying this is the "new" Luke, the Luke of this generation. And maybe they're right. This generation full of numale soyboy deserves it.

Star Wars isn't just a thing for socially alienated white men/boys anymore. It's grown beyond that little niche, and it also needs to lose the baggage associated with whiteness/maleness to reach a larger audience and have more influence.

Lots of the lessons and teachings embodied by Luke Skywalker are white, masculine and western in character. They've been done to death. The monomyth, Joseph Campbellian structure is dated and stale, and it can't keep running on those fumes forever.

I sympathize with lots of the grumbling white male neckbeards are doing. Star Wars was their thing and they don't want to share their beloved toys. And they're obviously gonna hate The Last Jedi because, in essence, it's about how Luke's legend really was flawed and limited in its scope.

The Jedi philosophy, just like the phallocentric white male western patriarchy, was bogged down in its own dogma. There's something beautiful and touching about the sentiment of "passing the torch" in TLJ. The white western male, long held as the only source of heroism and power in the canon, gracefully steps aside not only for his own good, but for the good of the universe.

In more diverse and progressive hands, there's no telling what this universe, and the force along with it, might become. It's an exciting prospect, to say the least, for those who aren't embittered neckbeards living in their parents' basements.

TLJ is going to be a watershed moment in sci-fi and genre films generally. It's all about letting go, letting your creation grow beyond you. And Star Wars, like civilization itself, has evolved beyond its parochial and patriarchal past.

Those are invalid arguments. Obi-Wan and Yoda's exiles were highly motivated by the fact that they couldn't stop Sidious and Vader. Yoda lost the duel to his counterpart and Obi-Wan volunteered to "stay behind and watch over the child (Luke)". That all makes sense.

Contrast that to Luke's out of character exile all because he wanted to murder his nephew because he saw evil in him? Luke is always looking for the good in people. Vader had evil in him, but he also had good. Luke wanted to bring that out. Shouldn't he have saw that in Ben Solo?

None of what Rian Johnson did made any sense.

So what is the First Order?

the one before orders 2 through 66

Obi-Wan and Yoda aren't Luke, though. Luke, no matter what adversity he was faced with, always turned a bad situation into resolve to move forward and toward a goal. Luke never gave up and his resolve always paid off. For him to just give up after a fuck up doesn't make sense.

But Luke didn't follow their example that's what saved the galaxy.

itt we pretend luke stayed 16 or some shit forever.

It's not the diversity that's putting me off, as I really liked Rogue One. And the diverse cast in this movie does not feel out of place at all, we're finally in the 21st century in that regard.

What's bothering me is that SJWs are stating how incredibly progressive it is and whatnot, but simply refuse to look beyond 'colour of skin' in that regard - while what they're factually celebrating is the end of meritocracy. The end of having potential, but having to work hard to live up to it. To learn from the mistakes of your teachers and become better than them in that regard, only to make mistakes for yourself that you will have to live with.

This whole movie instead revolves around 'privilege'. The 'privilege' to be born with supernatural powers, the 'privilege' to use these without any training or philosphical guidance at all. Rey is already flawless, a superhuman who does not struggle between right or wrong like normal human beings do. Where the Force from the original movies left room for (ethical) ambiguousness, a so-called 'grey area' where Jedi might thread but can be guided through with the right kind of training, such a thing does not exist in her character. Yes Rey is a powerful woman, yes it's a diverse cast (nothing wrong with that), but the underlying message is one of "privilege pays off", no need to work hard when you're born a certain way, and the worst one of all: everybody just has to accept that fact. It's the triumph of dualism, the end of nuance, the punishing of being 'grey' and the belief that the world is no more complicated than light and dark.

Gotta love that autist keyboard warrior who calls every joke "bait" or "false flag" and feels intelligent when he does so

...

This but unironically

Luke defied the Jedi by going directly to Vader in ROTJ. They wanted Luke to kill Vader, but Luke believed that Vader wouldn't be able to murder his own son. He went against the Jedi and found a third way. He didn't kill Vader or join Vader; he saved Vader.

In TLJ, he just sees a little bit of darkness in Kylo and instantly goes into kill mode. That makes no sense, especially after he saved Vader and proved the Jedi wrong. Why then would years later he all of a sudden go with trying to kill Kylo Ren when he knew that wasn't the answer with Vader (a man who was completely consumed by the dark side, unlike Kylo who was just doubtful)?

b-but people change

Thread should have ended here.

this