Why again did this beautiful film lose the Oscar to Zootopia?
I can just imagine the snobs at the Academy. "Ugh, no way am I wasting my Christmas holiday on a (scoffs) CHILDREN'S movie. I already saw Zootopia this year, that's QUITE enough for me. I'll just cast my vote for that even though I don't care enough about this category to have a properly informed opinion on it. Clearly Zootopia is the superior choice for adults, it even has Jason Bateman to cater to my very adult tastes. How dare people enjoy films made for (shudders) ...children..."
Moana was enjoyable, but it felt wayy too focus tested and risk-free. I barely remember the main characters. Even the main song sounds exactly the same as the songs from Frozen.
Zootopia at least had something a little edgy to say and had a story that we haven't really seen before in an animated film.
Jack Hughes
I will never not be mad. Kubo got shafted
Oliver Jackson
Zootopia was the same generic "Just bee urself, you can be anything!" message we've seen a thousand times, complete with a famous pop idol singing a generic pop song at the end
The "twist" about the assistant mayor was foreseeable from a mile away
Ryder Murphy
That's literally the same message Moana had
Ian Fisher
Yeah, so saying that Zootopia was superior because it "had something a little edgy to say and had a story that we haven't seen before" is blatantly false
Adam Myers
Madoka 3 fucking deserved that oscar
Justin Murphy
They didn't specifically name anybody but Voter 1 was apparently some guy who got into the Academy by having a few mid-sized to big roles in the '70s and then pretty much nothing from there on out.
So he's not just a Father of the Year candidate but a bitter has-been who clings to his Academy vote because that's the only way he stays relevant in the industry.
Jackson Rogers
Zootopia was way better than Moana (even though l enjoyed the two movies)
Jason Scott
Yes, "just b urself" was Zootopia's ultimate message, but did you not notice the very thinly-veiled racism metaphor as well? For a kid's movie to so blatantly tackle such a hot-button issue takes balls. Hell, it's literally set in animal New York, you can't get less subtle than that.
Christopher Gray
I wonder if anyone who knows enough about 70s films would be able to make a good guess as to his identity.
Alexander Sullivan
Zootopia was more PC. Racist animals are more challenging than a single race of people maintaining their traditions & cultural identity.
Aiden Peterson
because its a better movie
Brody Ross
"shiny" alone is better
Samuel Myers
Moana was bog-standard Disney Princess movie loaded with a bunch of Never-heard-of-em actors aside from The Rock. Without Johnson's charm it would have been completely forgettable.
Nolan Gutierrez
The Crab was voiced by Jermaine from Flight of the Concords if you're aware of that show. Plus his song was great.
Other than that I agree though.
Mason Nelson
Not by any margin. Hack blockbuster writing. Beleaguered soapbox preaching. The only saving grace is the chemistry of the main duo.
Moana is a pure adventure and everything that happens feels organic. It's finally a return to form to the Aladdin days of 2D movies that were just about a hero and their journey.
Blake Bell
Never heard of it. I guess the song made me sigh because he was trying to point attention to it, like going "see I'm doing this because it's a disney movie!"
Ryan Adams
The NOT AT ALL veiled racism was the main issue with the movie, its preachy as fuck tone was just one of its many attempts to cash in on pop culture. It was a cloying, fake as fuck, movie.
Hudson Phillips
Probably because since they're animals they can assume they're all white
Henry Barnes
how boring would it have been if tamatoa just started talking about himself?
Evan Myers
While it's true the Academy consists of a bunch of retards, Moana did honestly suck compared to Zootopia despite Zootopia being a boring and 'safe' Disney movie.
Grayson Rogers
>Moana is a pure adventure I'd argue it was TOO much "pure adventure." It's message was so generalised and harmless that it was barely even there.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, just that such a story won't go down in society and history as something notable.
Logan Long
Moana: young hero from a complacent culture goes out to save her people and learn about herself with the help of her spirit guide
Zootopia: small-town country police girl moves to metropolis and slowly discovers a political conspiracy with the help of her kind-hearted criminal friend
I can see which one critics would generally find more interesting.
Angel Thomas
A human relied on help from a demigod rather than being able to save their people by themselves. Can only root for the protagonist so far when they're literally saved from their own lack of experience at sea by semi-divine intervention and such. Setting aside the 'tips fedora' posting, how do you tell an inspirational story about a supposed leader of their people when they literally had to be saved by a demigod and his magic hook. Whereas Zootopia, the protagonist solves multiple missing persons cases, loses the respect of the person that helped them do it, realizes their mistake and earns back their trust, and solves a bigger conspiracy with just their own skills and work. Then there's simply the technical aspects of how they created a multi-biome city that houses many mammals and such. Compared to a few islands in the ocean. You got rocks, some palm trees, a bit of coral for underwater bits, and a volcano monster.
Sebastian Fisher
Zootopia isn't going down in history as something notable either. It was the cheapest easiest "don't be racist" plot ever.
Moana was more concerned with making a good movie than a hackneyed point.
Sebastian Brown
That may be true, but I've seen far more interest in Zootopia than Moana for the time they've been around. Neither movie has to be fantastic, just that people have decided that Zootopia is the more relevant and engaging story at this point in time, which is all that matters in getting an award.
Jackson Collins
Zootopia was social-political commentary.
Moana was just a solid adventure movie.
Moana was definitely better though.
Justin Davis
This. Moana was fun but it felt sort of "empty"
Aaron Bennett
Why do you need to recognize an actor for them to be good? If anything famous actors tend to phone it in because they'll get work regardless of how they do, while lesser known ones can be propelled to stardom by a top-notch performance.
Dylan Allen
You goddamn idiot, getting help from a spiritual power is one of the most standard tropes of the Hero's Journey. They act as metaphors for the protagonist's higher nature and sense of self.
Isaiah Nguyen
Both of them were alright, but your name should have won.
Leo James
It's more along the lines of plot holes or armor like when the sea was supposed to love her but nearly fucking drowned her.
Jacob Sanchez
It's obvious that critics only have any interest in animated films if it does something they perceive as "adult." They can't enjoy something "childish" because they didn't take C.S. Lewis' advice. They never put away their fear of childishness.
Daniel Richardson
Perhaps, but that doesn't automatically mean Moana is the better story just because it has a simpler story. The story is in fact, rather bland IMO, and that's not because it's "designed for kids." Toy Story 3 has a simple story but it's execution is fucking brilliant.
Owen Perez
What I really like about Moana is that none of the songs felt like they were detours that stalled the plot, which happens a fair bit in this kind of film. It was more like dialogue that they just happened to sing in a pleasant tone of voice.
Eli Richardson
I wouldn't even say that Moana is simpler or that Zootopia is more complex. The problem is that people see something that's "for children" and they automatically assume it's shallow. They don't give it the time of day because all they want to see is the surface. Which is ironic because they don't get it if it's not blatant as hell.
Jack Robinson
What the fuck are you on about? What kind of complaint is that? It's not like his song was overly, child friendly if that's what you're sighing for.
Caleb Hill
What about in terms of raw animation? Zootopia's fur animation was pretty impressive but Moana's sea and water animation was a damn good technological feat.
Adam Williams
I like 7 who knows that you need to see all the nominees before making a judgement.
Chase Roberts
This. Either Your Name. or The Red Turtle.
Hunter Barnes
Dude, I love kids movies. I saw Moana in the cinemas because that's what I tend to do when a big animated film is released. Kids movies are often way more engaging and heartfelt than a lot of the trash released "for adults."
Moana is just a rather plain movie. It's not bad at all, but it doesn't much that makes it actually special. There's no truly powerful message, the sense of threat is only as big as it has to be, and the content (musical numbers, humour, etc.) are all very by-the-numbers and predictable.
Zootopia might not be a childhood masterpiece, but it at least had something very relevant to say, and it's setting was rather unique and well-executed. There was a sense of urgency. There was a sense of mystery and discovery.
Zootopia is simply a more engaging story, for the most part. As I said Moana isn't bad at all, but in three year's time we'll have the same story released by Disney, only this time set in Africa, or Canada, or the India, or somewhere else. It didn't bring anything to the table that we haven't at all seen before.
Jacob Bell
>small-town country police girl moves to metropolis and slowly discovers a political conspiracy with the help of her kind-hearted criminal friend Holy shit its the reverse of Hot Fuzz
Luis Morales
Friendly reminder Disney "Revival" era is over. Started with Bolt, ended with Moana.
What's next in the works? AT LEAST two sequels. Let that sink in.
Luke Morales
My point is I don't feel they should be rewarded for addressing something if they address it poorly.
Jackson Hill
Did they address it poorly though? They didn't whitewash the fear the or conflict that racism (or "specism") brings up
David Flores
The ones for this year are even funnier. cartoonbrew.com/awards/academy-members-dont-care-animation-2017-edition-149087.html >I saw Kubo [and the Two Strings] and don’t really remember it. I loved the music in Moana. I think The Red Turtle is very strong. I loved everything about My Life As a Zucchini — I was very taken with the idea of making a movie about a zucchini. But I voted for Zootopia because it has something important to say about the world. Basically, we all have to be nicer to each other. >Voted: Zootopia
>I was very taken with the idea of making a movie about a zucchini
Isaiah Johnson
>muh songs
James King
Zootopia isn`t that much better but at least the bunny has more personality than Moana who is completely forgettable.
Jackson Torres
ITT: contrarians.
Oscars are a joke when it comes.to animation, but Zootopia got an Annie (multiple ones) as well. It was better recieved by critics and audiences. And the "preachy and cookie cutter" message morons claim it had was a story about how EVERYONE, even the discriminated main hero who has to prove the world is wrong and racist about her, can be also in the wrong. Name two other movies with a discrimination theme which aren't one sided, with one side being completly wrong and the second completly right. But the villain was totally wrong you say? The villain wasn't the point of the conflict, merely a cause of it. Removing the bad guy did not stop the problems of prejudice, it only put new light on that problem and made others see it.
But apparently some people lack the analytic skills grade schoolers should possess and just go "durrr Gisnep bad, morals are preachy, talking animals = furries". Must be the famous American lead paint ("lets still use it everywhere decades after everyone else banned it for being toxic"), still present in most of American homes, doing it's job.
Cameron Cook
>Plus I have a fetish for turtles — I’ve just written a project about a turtle.
Sup Forums and the rest of the world may not be so different after all
Landon King
>I can just imagine the snobs at the Academy. "Ugh, no way am I wasting my Christmas holiday on a (scoffs) CHILDREN'S movie. its the exact opposite the academy is specified in live action acting, not animation. they don't know the ins and outs of the animation industry or production, they don't even really care for it. in the end they just vote for whatever their kids dragged them to see, thats why disney movies always win, especially against an artsy animated film. look up dinsey's win ratio for best animation, its ridiculous.
Blake Carter
Because it was boring. Most of it was just endless ocean. The movie had ONE villain and he was defeated halfway through the film with no real fight involved. Why even give him a song.
There was just nothing to it. Nothing new or interesting whatsoever. The plot hook mentioned by Tamatoa about Maui's abandonment and WHY he was so focused on being a hero was completely dropped immediately after it was brought up. Maui didn't learn a lesson about seeking his own happiness, or gain any closure whatsoever. He was the exact same character at the end as when he started, except not conceited towards Moana.
And Moana, she similarly has ZERO character development. Even before she leaves the island she knows what she wants to do, who she wants to be, and she sets off and accomplishes precisely that. Not like for example Mulan, who set out spare her elderly father another war, then became personally invested in being as good as any man, and finally accepted being herself, a woman AND a warrior.
There was NOTHING like that in Moana, NOTHING. And there's no point in even mentioning the lack of romance, which is usually a Disney stable when it comes to princesses. But with a cast of Moana, a chicken and Maui and the chicken being mentally retarded it stands to reason she couldn't really have one.
All in all, a dull and slightly below average movie that didn't deserve any awards for anything, except MAYBE some of the designs.
Cooper Adams
>Why again did this beautiful film lose the Oscar to Zootopia? Does not moans enough.
Looking back on it, I enjoyed Moana more than Zootopia. While Moana was cliched and much of the story rather perfunctory in its execution, it was easily the best Disney musical in years (in contrast to say, Frozen and Tangled, which often felt less like musicals than movies with musical segments due to having no songs after a certain point. This was in contrast to Moana, which harkens back to classic Disney by ending by a musical reprise and music playing a part in the protagonist's self-actualization and the movie's climax). Is it an instant classic? No. But it actually entertained me and the songs stuck with me.
Meanwhile, Zootopia had an interesting world and themes, but it's not all that rewatchable beyond that. The story is extremely cliched to the point that a savvy viewer can not only predict story beats, but individual lines. The characters themselves are nothing special, and honestly, the trend of putting a pop song in Disney films probably isn't going to allow Zootopia to age as well as it could have otherwise (as its themes alone would have done the job of keeping it resonant over time). It's a decent but forgettable movie that is redeemed by its, again, interesting themes and exploration of them, as well as the fictional world it creates.
Lincoln Stewart
You mean future POTUS Dwayne Johnson.
Xavier Reed
difference was Frozen was shit, while Tangled is not
There's a difference between getting help from a spiritual power, and having around half of the conflicts solved by a literal demigod travelling alongside the mortal hero.
Imagine Star Wars if Luke had Yoda tagging along with him and then fighting battles with/for him.
Aaron Watson
The hilarious thing about this is that on first glance, anthropomorphic animals are more "for children" than a chunky, brown heroine.
Logan Smith
When is loli giant the movie coming out?
Evan Butler
I just watched Moana the other day and Zootopia is easily the better movie. Moana isn't a bad movie by any means, it's just sort of there.
John Brown
Moana doesn't feel memorable that's why. the plot is so slow they wast a quarter of the movie showing you Moana's irelevant childhood. Then the coconut attack is shoved in the plot for no real reason since we never heard of them before nor after the whole thing. That final villain battle could have been more than "yell and throw lava", and very end is literally a Deus ex. While I'm happy they avoided "the magic tear", there was also no big emotional sad moment to raise the stakes anywhere.
Anthony Turner
Zootopia was better and did better at the box office.
Aaron Morgan
The Disney Revival actually started with Meet the Robinsons and is still going strong to this very day.
Parker Phillips
Supposedly in 2020. Disney keeps pushing it further and further down the road.
Hopefully, the delay is for the rotoscoped CGI style that Paperman was also made in, but in full color this time.
Henry Miller
Neither of them are Oscar worthy.
Moana had some cool things going for it like graphix and water and the Rock singing and calling Belle a bitch. So did Zootopia.
But it's Disney, high production value is a given, it's the writing that's gotten stale. especially the songs. And every time you think to yourself "hey, that's kind of deep" it decides kids are getting bored and does something silly, or adds an annoying sidekick.
I am not saying "muh adult cartoons for adults such as myself", I am just saying that it's Hunchback of Notre Dame problem, who da fuck thought making those gargoyles real would help?
Yes, I am still mad it wasn't Paranorman
Carter Hughes
Zootopia>Moana, and I don't need to be a foxfucker to know that. Moana was just sorta straightforward, an enjoyable little movie but overall had very little impact because it was your standard "go to three points, finish the final boss at the fourth." and I remembered nothing striking about it but the two-three songs (arguably better than Frozen by a small degree). Zootopia was a bit closer to home with its themes, topics like expectations vs reality, hard work doesn't mean good recognition, and of course the specism bit. What really sold me was the dynamic between the two protags in Zootopia compared to Moana's. Both movies had two characters who were complete opposites and had that final conflict which turned the other away, but the thing is, Hopps was the one who initiated the conflict and that conflict actually affected her and to a degree, the city itself while Moana just lost her muscle for a while and got him back in less than 10 minutes and one song.
They had some similar themes and routes but I definitely am more fond of Zootopia, especially after watching the documentary.
Julian Williams
>foxfucker.
i knew furry fandom was gay but to such extent?
Christopher Barnes
SJWs. zootopia was basically "don't be racist!"
same reason get out "lost" to la la land. la la land won but they changed it literally right after announcing it because they knew tumblrinas would go "but!! that movie is all white people!! RACISTS!!!" so they said get out won because it's literally a "fuck white people" movie which the "totally not racist" left loves these days. it's all political propaganda bullshit. never take the oscars seriously.
Leo Cruz
>I know a girl who only has sex with animators — she works over at Disney I love how he just drops this fact for no reason.
Christian Scott
Virtue signaling fascism means that if you didn't vote for the anti racism movie you were, in fact, a Nazi and deserve immediate death.
>get out "lost" to la la land Do all black movies look the same to you?
Grayson Ward
Fellas, fellas! Come on, now! They're BOTH so good!
Dominic Johnson
>Get Out lost to La La Land
What? Get out came out this year. I think you mean Moonlight
Jace Ross
>zootopia was basically "don't be racist!"
Zootopia was a pro cop movie about politicians stirring up race riots. It's an Anti-BLM movie
Dominic Young
I never got all the love for Zootopia. I watched in on Netflix recently and it was alright.I don't remember really anything much from it except that garbage song at the end, which is pretty ironic. It gets way to much praise for the pro diversity/ anti-racist message. Moana is a straightforward yet well told and absolutely gorgeous film. The main characters are well flawed and the songs overall were pretty great.
John Moore
Oscar nominators would rather award a movie saying racism is bad than a movie about actual brown people.
John Gonzalez
funny, it was going to be pro-BLM movie.
Cameron Davis
>Giving a shit about an industry award
Who got the auto glass repair best new operations award this year?
Noah Anderson
The academy are suckers for plots invoking racism, sexism, transsexism, and straight white males being the root of all evil. Of course they'd pick the movie about racism being bad. It's an easy way to virtue signal after #oscarssowhite.
Grayson Gutierrez
this year's oscar winner.
Nolan Brown
This man. It was so obvious furshit would win just from the pro diversity message alone
Charles White
worldbuilding, and shitton of characters you can make porn of.
Nathaniel Young
as if I'm a fucking degenerate
Angel Green
Fuck off furry
Michael Smith
>the snobs at the Academy hahahahaha
If they were really snobs, they would have nominated the red turtle without watching it.
James Phillips
Delicious brown > Rabbit
Nathan Kelly
Thank god there was no romance, because Maui isn't exactly prince-like, hes kinda, you know FUGLY