Why os every elseworld story for Wonder Woman: her becoming Supes' Lady Macbeth or just a retelling of her orgins.
Like jesus fuck can we get something else.
Why not the Wonder Corps/Wonder Women International.
Or Wonder Woman living with the fact she will outlive her teammates and her helpong the next gen.
Why is it always those first two things.
>or just a retelling of her orgins
Isn't this most elseworlds in general though? Like you have medieval Superman, and it's retelling of his origins, or victorian Batman, same thing.
Those add a twist. Batman in Victorian.
Medieval Supes. Cliché twists but twist nonetheless
Hers is just a straight up retelling. Either in 1940 orgins or modern times.
Take legend of wonder woman. Its a strsight retelling.
Ok rate this:
Lois dies. Supes goes into exile. Diana goes evil ON HER OWN. Batman versus Wonder Woman!
LoWW isn't an Elseworlds. It's just out of continuity. More similar to American Alien.
Okay so why is every non main story just a retelling or lady macbeth 2.0
Well, there was Amazonia, but in all fairness most characters not named Superman or Batman didn't get many elseworlds. Flash only had one, GL only had a couple.
I guess generally most heroes don't get standalones and even though WW sells merch she is not on the level as Batman and Superman in true importance.
But even accepting that secondary franchise role, GL has like 3 Elseworlds that do something a little weird while I don't think she has any. So that's not the entire reason.
Hey, what about having characters from own her cast die instead? She's not a Superman character, not matter how much DC tried to make it so in these last years.
You could have an Elseworlds where the amazons in Paradise Island are killed because of some international crisis that the Justice League failed to mediate/stop. Wonder Woman lose her mind and blame man's world governments for the tragedy and the Justice League for being complacent.
Because DC's editors and writers feel that she's a character that either need reworking or exist to be paired up with Superman due to their similarities and iconography. Specially when they feel like exploring the concept of Superman god/man duality and how his actions affect the entire world.
Justice Riders.
In Warren Ellis' Justice League Elseworlds tied to his Planetary run the trinity where secret agents/super-soldiers trying to depose a shadowy group that controlled the universe. Superman die fairly quickly so there's none of that Lady Macbeth shit.
There's Justice Riders , which turns her into the leader of a posse
They have no similarities. Thats why WW is completly rewritten or just a yes man to Supes.
They dont work together on their own. They only had that book because they were a couple. If not the only time they would interact would be in JL.
WW shouldnt be a gard character to write. I dont know why folks act like theyve been given the task to unlock the meaning of life when they write her.
Superficial similarities: both are the oldest and most iconic characters the publisher has, both share almost the same super-powers, both are tall blue-eyed brunettes, both share costume with the same colors, and so on. That's enough for DC to decide that they can sell as a pair.
Backgrounds can be ignored and personalities can be rewritten to fit the agenda.
Wonder Batwoman when
If I remember correctly this already happened several times in v2
I liked her street level stories when Mandy was murdered or that one with Batman (Hikatea?). I think it is really interesting when her kinda naive and honorable world view gets shattered.
Isn't that one of the bad possibilities Diana imagined if she and Batman were to be a couple? Basically a scenario where they've kids and they grow up in Gotham being changed for the worse by the awfulness of that city. So you end with "Wonder Batwoman" there, the hard-assed daughter of Batman and Wonder Woman that hate male sexual offenders to the point of maiming them.
Thats her daughter tho.
But im wondering if they went with the orgibal explanation for WW in the beyondverse.
He going back home pregnant and having to be queen cuz her mom was killed in a civil war. Their daughter comes back years later to be the new Wonder Girl/Woman
No. Thats the only page. There was no indications it was bad. Hell Bruce Jr. There says it was a little too far
The only bad ending was Joker killing Bats and her wanting to kill Joker.
Honestly bats would have done the same or similar.
DC editors vetoed that pitch and went with the one where Wonder Woman decided to help the Justice Lords' universe and end up being forced to marry a generically evil Justice Lords Superman to main a peaceful truce in the world and eventually together they create a test-tube baby by mixing their genes so they can manipulate the kid against each other.
>wanting
I loved most of her dreams. Great story potentials.
I feel that the intention behind that page is to show a bad scenario, though. The scenarios basically mixed the good with the bad. Like the one where Diana doesn't gain permission from her gods to conceive a child, which break her and Bruce's heart, but the silver-lining is that they together managed to turn Gotham and the rest of the world into a much better place.
Like thats fucking better. The kid hated them both.
Wondy left his life cuz he told her to fuck off.
Justic!Supes was still a douche.
The fuck editors. Why would you even go with that pitch.
He could have been Zod's like we were lead to velieve. It would have made sense as it would have been like Chris.
Because back then DC was still trying to promote the SM/WW pairing and they felt that accepting the original pitch would be counter-productive to their endeavor. So they inserted a bit of SM/WW in their DCAU tie-in comics as well for good measure.
If it had been published any other time things would've probably turned out differently.
I dont see it. But compared to the one you. Stated it would seem worse by comparison.
All i remembered was Bruce's beaten body telling her stop.
The whole point of that issue is that their relationship had the potential to be both marvelous as a well as a disaster, so WW got cold-feet and decided to not explore it.
I grabbed a few Elseworld's for cheap to read something goofy. In every one Superman died at the end.
Elseworld's tend to be neat ideas but end up being bullshit. It's not that big a deal of they all suck.
No i totally get it. It was the good and bad. But the real ending of Her outliving him was bittersweet.
Definitely.
It's just really dumb writers who think they're hot shit so they don't have to read anything that came before.
Wonder Woman has such a nice, steady history of characterization until the early 2000's.
You know how Superman had that phase where some people were trying to prove how badass and realistic he could be? That's what it feels like Wonder Woman is still stuck in. People refuse to try and understand the character as she is and instead try to make her be something else.
Did Joker pee on her face?
They put too much emphasis on her warrior side and have the gods be her main villians.
Read the Nail and Another Nail. Best Elseworlds ever.
The problem is that writers don't research enough to learn that DC's amazons are supposed to be a subversion of the mythical amazons. Even when they understand the difference they tend to the see amazons as inhuman. So that's why more often than not Wonder Woman being written as if she was a cold and pragmatic warrior who's ready to decapitate anyone and who thinks of herself to be superior to the weak and amoral humans. Then couple that with the fact that a lot of writers see her as girl version of Superman and voila! You'e the perfect recipe for shit like pic related.
God, Superman/Wonder Woman pissed me off so. Fucking. Much.
Fuck Soule and fuck Tomasi.
The problem is nobody fucking gets Wonder Woman. Hell, Grant Morrison took special effort to research her origins and feminist movements for Earth One and still produced a fucking pile of shit, as all he managed to pull from the original stuff was "Amazons are into bondage and fucking all the time"
I'm not claiming I know better, mind you. But the idea of Wonder Woman as a fucking killing machine is a huge mistake. She's a god dammed ambassador of peace. Her weapons are essentially a shield (her bracelets) and a rope (bind, but don't kill) but ever since Kingdom Come and her fucking Eagle Armor and Magic Sword That Can Cut Superman everybody just assumes that's how she's supposed to be all the time and not a "Bad end" version of her.
Hey, Warner Bros here. How soon can you have the script done?
Someone should write Diana as one who favors submission holds rather than sword and shield...
I'm currently trying to do some research to find EXACTLY when the sword and armor shit came to be. Looking through a huge archive of comics and looking at old Usenet threads.
Obviously Kingdom Come is a big one, but I've noticed in the years following it the only things that had her with weapons were Byrne's Golden Age Hippolyta (notably that version of Wonder Woman teamed up with the modern version, who did not have a sword) and a shitty Elseworld, Whom the Gods Destroy. And at that same time nobody was saying Wonder Woman was shit and needed a sword on Usenet.
You can see bits of it throughout the early 2000's like in pic related. But I'm still trying to figure out how we went from a scant few depictions to the present day where if an artist draws Wonder Woman, most likely she's gonna have a sword.
I wish I remember where I saw it, but someone once tried to do a sales comparison of when she is holding a weapon compared to nothing on covers to see which ones sold better. I think the weapon wielding ones did.
Don't you dare talk that way about Based Tomasi you retarded piece of shit. Hold your tongue you bitch.
I don't doubt that at all. Probably same with "glowing red eyes Superman".
It was whenever they decided that she was going to be the one ok with killing. Bruce is the hardcore no killing whatsoever, Clark is the no killing except in a few specific cases like Darkseid and Doomsday, and Diana became the warrior bitch kill everyone.
Wonder Woman already has a foot in a fantasy realm so I can see why putting her in a Medieval setting doesn't occur to people. It's not as much of a leap to be wildly different.
As an outsider looking in the amazons seem to come in one of two flavors; noble holier than thou xenophobic elves or manhating lesbian warriors.
Neither is very appealing, so what's this third option?
And maybe the whole reason writers interpret wonder woman as thinking herself superior to the weak and amoral humans is because she's literally coming from a place called paradise to womansplain the path to peace and harmony to the masses? Like, is that not her mission?
>Tomasi writes 1 (ONE) decent comic
>suddenly he's "based"
And I'm the retard here?
Yes you are.
Is Injustice Wonder Woman more evil than dictates Supes?
Yes, because any time Superman has doubts, she just tells him to nut up and be more of a dick.
That just reminds me:
Why the hell hasn't there been an evil Batman story yet?
thank god someone brought this one up, it's godly
see
And peopledont combine stories. Theres no excuse. Like other havers have said. They dont read. All the trinty has the same problem of folks wanting to make their mark as the Frank Millar(super iconic story like TDKR) for that hero but she gets the worst because folks see Amazon and think :warrior.
Its bullshit. Because shes an ambassador. She should extend a hand before extending her sword.
She needs more psychological villians that challenge her peacefully ways.
>She needs more psychological villians that challenge her peacefully ways.
Then Wonder Woman is fundamentally broken because she's about rehabilitation in a genre and medium where criminals have a 99% recidivism rate.
Cheetah and Giganta are never gonna learn the error of their ways because you need them to stay villains.
>rehabilitation
and when people are reformed (mostly Batman villains), we have people on Sup Forums freaking out because "it happens all the time." I seem to see more complaints with the female villains (Catwoman, Ivy) than the male ones (Riddler pre-new52, Modern Clayface). Giganta was slightly reformed before Nu52, and she and Diana actually had a chat about their dating life (Giganta was dating the Atom).
Gail Simone had an arc during her run where Diana teamed up with Beowulf and other DC fantasy characters (like Claw the Unconquered) to fight Grendal. Simone seems to be a fan of those old school characters, and I think that was the first time they were used in a while.
There are always villians that cant be helped even though Cheetah in Rucka kinda was.
But she can have a villoan whos only like that because of a mental issue or a situation. There is alot of villians that can be helped but true she shouldnt lose her others who cant be helped.
There is a balance.
Rehabilitation can work if you use Z-listers who no one else wants to touch or even knows about, like Zara and Hypnota. Write a story about them putting crime behind them and I guarantee you they wont show up at the next Secret Society of Supervillains gathering because 99% of the writers don't even know them.
>Giganta was dating the Atom).
Thats so fucking cute. Why shoukdnt she be reformed.
And Gail is okay but im still bitter about the shit she said about Superman and why women love him.
She was writing the New Atom book (Ryan Choi was her OC), and she had him dating Giganta.
He was stupidly killed off for shock value with that Titans team being run by Deathstroke, and Simone managed get some revenge for that near the end of Secret Six.
1/3
What are her thoughts on Superman? I admit to not knowing them
3/3
OK, newfag.
Im trying to find the tweets but i cant. Its hard to explsin without them and i might be overreacting but whatever.
Has there ever been a Wonder Woman Elseworld that takes place in the Wild West?
I think it'd work better if rehabilitation operated on a scale rather than a binary. If she can't make her villains good people then at least should could make them better people.
Sorta
Just go for it user
I need to know