Name me some honest negative critiques about this movie that are not minor nitpicky shit and are actual big plot relevant issues? Example of nitpick shit that I've heard was Holdo's use of the ship to lightspeed ram the first order fleet ("why didn't they just do this before?") etc. An example of an honestly legit critique is why Holdo never told anyone the plan ahead of time (I really don't understand why, and this is a flaw)
Almost all the complaints I read about it are minor nerdy shit that most people don't see as an issue (Luke throwing the light saber away at the start was bad? it shows he doesn't give a fuck and got a mild chuckle) The Poe/Hux joke wasn't that funny at the start, but it sets the tone that there is humor here and it's not going to be all serious. Okay, sure, that works.
Lincoln Morales
>Name me some honest negative critiques about this movie
why did they remake return of the jedi but less interesting
Ayden Thomas
How about this: why do we need to see another rebellion overthrows empire story?? ITS BEEN FUCKING DONE ALREADY
Benjamin Allen
propaganda pushing
Matthew Stewart
...
Cameron Wilson
...
Carson Martinez
Why does finn try to run away immediately? Why is Sicario a constant deus ex machina? (And how does he know poes plan in order to sell them out) How does the first order get their shit onto Salthoth so quickly How does rose get in front of finn and crash into him without being shot by the first order How does finn drag rose to the cave without being shot by the first order
John Edwards
anime-tier dialogue with absolutely no semblance of actual humanity, where characters simply list off plot points like it was a check list
Dominic Stewart
Also, First Order takes over the Republic...OFF SCREEN.
Asher Baker
Luke Skywalker is low energy
Christopher Cox
>GOT >lack of black characters
That's just not unreasonable, weren't the Dornish supposed to be niggers?[/spolier]
Nathan Anderson
Rose doesn't let Finn sacrifice himself, instead she lets the First Order blow through the wall and they would have massacred the rest of the resistance including Finn and herself if Luke hadn't shown up. Absolutely retarded writing and characters
Robert King
Here's a real kicker
WHY IS THERE A MAP TO LUKE IF HE WENT SOMEWHERE TO BE ALONE AND DIE
Evan Bennett
...
Camden Stewart
>holdo
I literally got out of this piece of shit 2 hours ago and I can't even tell you who Holdo was. Was it that pink haired dyke?
Also, holy mother of god what a terrible movie
Alexander Robinson
I think the show got them right. Sort of a hybrid of southern european and arab.
Henry Rivera
/thread The whole nuwars is a gigantic system of plotholes for fanbois and brainlets. And its boring, badly written with uninteristing characters. And calling it for what it is triggers them.
Cooper Richardson
Most of the humor fell flat. Laura Derns character could and probably should have been cut and most of her role been given to Leia (Which I'm pretty sure was planned at some point because they are way to similar for this to not have been a decision made later in the production) I'm not sure if General Hux needs to be in this movie.
Other than that it was great.
Parker Rogers
i snuck in to see the last 20 minutes or so of a showing after seeing all the money in the world
i couldn't make it 5 minutes, it's even worse than i was warned here
Julian Flores
FLT suicide bombing makes Death Star and the construction of super-massive space ships irrational. How come nobody thought about doing that before?
If they could send a ship out of the fleet at any point without being detected, why didn't they take the chance to go rally reinforcements, instead of wasting the time looking for some nobody to help them on an obvious suicide mission?
Snoke claimed to see everything going through Kylo's head...yet somehow DIDN'T. HOW? Telepathy aside, he was supposed to be so strong with the Force, yet didn't detect obvious Force manipulation occurring right next to him. HOW?
If Rey's parents were nobodies, how come she got super special powers and instant mastery over them?
Then this
Brody Brown
They just seem to be doing random things with the universe and the characters. It's not leading anywhere. After the first ending (Laura Dern crashing the ship with no survivors) I had zero interest in seeing what happened next. After ROTJ the Rebels were triumphant. In TFA the First Order was fighting back. In TLJ the Rebels are now Rebels again and are slowly reduced to what, 200 people in the whole galaxy? What the fuck? The franchise is now officially fucked, with no major villain, no Luke character and no Leia actress.
Jacob Moore
Thats what the sjws wanted.
Colton Long
This is a big problem. Even if you liked the film, it ends up turning itself into a finisher. There'll always be a rebellion, an empire, jedi, and sith. "Today you get blown up, tomorrow you blow them up." Okay. So why even care about what happens after this? You've seen it all many times by now. The end.
Henry Sanchez
I've seen a lot of criticisms focused on the awkward humor, the bad pacing, the inconsistent logic, and pointless subplots. These are all valid critiques but remove them and you'd still have a bad movie. The fundamental issue with this movie is there is no character growth on the part of our 3 heroes.
Rey is in the same spot at the end as she is at the start. We learned who her parents are but gain no real insight to her as a person. Amusingly enough Disney's refusal to give her any serious character flaws leads to Kylo Ren looking like the underdog, which is likely why he's the most popular new character in these films.
Finn spends the whole movie playing second fiddle to Rose, and arguably his character regresses. He started TFA as a coward, and over the course of the movie decides to stand up and fight against the first order. In the sequel his attempts at heroism all fail miserably, most notably during the final battle where he is about to sacrifice himself to save others but Rose stops him and tells him "We have to save what we love." He was trying to do exactly that, Rose.
Poe has an arc, but it is perhaps one of the most infuriating aspects of the movie. He is demoted for destroying a massive enemy ship and is only allowed to lead again once he stops trying to win the war. Their attempted message of "failure is the best teacher" is fine, but Poe was the only person who succeeded at anything in this movie. The actual failures learned nothing.
And after two and a half hours of watching the heroes fail, we end on the "hopeful" scene of the young child looking up at the stars. I suppose its fine that our heroes are a bunch of losers because they inspired children to grow up, fight and die in the war they are too damn incompetent to win themselves. I really shouldn't be reminded of Starship Troopers during what is intended to be a family space adventure.
Andrew Brooks
He is demoted for disobeying direct orders. Results don't justify everything. If everybody tried to be like him, there'd be no army.
But him pulling a 180 in his beliefs by the end when there is every reason to fight to the last is still stupid, of course.
David Evans
The rebellion doesn't overthrow the empire in this movie tho, that's literally not the plot
Aaron Wood
This is amazing, great practical effect reminiscent of Jim Henson, weird fucking absurd humor, great world building, great character building for Luke to show he's not the boy we remember
Connor Wood
Episode 7 has basiclly set a terrible set-up and makes 8 a terrible movie that is done through a forced continuity that is lacking from the understanding of the original trilogy as well of the prequels. Its basiclly a modern day movie for modern movie goers that doesn't have the filmography style in the style of a soap opera.
Brandon Howard
>Kylo Ren looking like the underdog, which is likely why he's the most popular new character in these films.
I want to like him, but his characterization is just as poor as Rey's, if not worse.
>He almost changes sides...but actually never intended to >He is conflicted inside...and remains conflicted >He hates Luke...and keeps on hating him still >He wants to kill everybody...and, yeah, no changes there either
Dominic Clark
They don't need to explain their retarded writing because fanboys with cognitive dissonance will do all the rationalization for them.
/r/starwars is the definition of cuckoldry right now
Nolan Jackson
I can forgive the rest of this post, but comparing that monstrosity to the genius of Henson is unforgivable.
Camden Perez
Finn isn't running away, he takes Leia's homing device to go look for Rey. He's afraid she'll come back with Luke and they'll be destroyed just like the Resistance fleet is likely going to. The movie literally spells this out, and you still didn't understand. You aren't qualified to watch kids' movies.
William Rivera
1.Finn tries to run aways because that's his character flaw. In tfa he had no attachment to the rebellion he just wanted to fuck Rey. His whole arc in this movie is his journey to become true rebel scum. 2.Just because something is a Deus ex machina doesn't mean it's bad. It's a literary tool not a cinema sins. also he knows about the rebel ships because his sensors scanned them. There's your explanation does it really matter how, the more interesting question and the one you should be concerning yourself with is why. The whole point of that subplot is to show that these kind of suicide missions DONT work. Every single blockbuster of the past 30 years has used Scrappy underdogs planning some last ditch suicide mission and succeeded. Miracles are supposed to be rare but they happen in every movie. Last Jedi gives us this plot line and instead has it end in total abject failure not only for those attempting it but for the entire cause as a while as it leads to the empire killing almost all of the resistance on the fleeing ships. 3. Wow what a nitpicking. It doesn't matter. Maybe they flew down extra quick, maybe a lot of time passed before they landed. It has no bearing on anything. 4. She presumably dodged their fire, perhaps they were not paying attention to her going off all the way to the side, maybe they thought she was retreating. This is another nitpicking. It doesn't matter. 5. Another nitpicking it doesn't matter. Maybe they were too small of a target against the dark red ground maybe they blended in. Maybe they didn't think they were worth the time. Maybe in the wake of the door buster going off they didn't notice two tiny specks walking in.
I think you watch cinema sins and enjoy it. Try forming your own opinions and doing some reading on filmmaking and screenwriting or maybe read some real film criticism from actual critics. Not nerds on YouTube yelling at a webcam for 10 minutes.
Brayden Morris
Henson would've loved the creature design in this get your head out of your ass. I haven't seen puppets like these in a movie in ages I'm thrilled to see em and Jim would be too.
Carter Anderson
DJ is 4 feet away when Finn is talking to Poe through BB-8's commlink. He hears the plan. Goddamn, kid.
Jackson Brown
This is basically illegible. "That doesn't have the filmography style in the style of a soap opera" What the fuck were you trying to say. The more I read the more I become convinced that people who hated last Jedi are all mentally lacking.
Benjamin White
They think Luke went to the first Jedi temple. The old guy on Jakku found a map to the first Jedi Temple. Jesus Christ.
Adam Hall
1. Weaponized hyperspace is a giant plothole in the entire series. 2. Weaponized force ghosts is an entire plothole in the entire series. 3. Luke Skywalker essentially being rendered an entirely different character than his established character traits. 4. Rey still being a Mary Sue boring character. 5. Snoke does nothing and is nobody. 6. Kylo is now set up as the primary antagonist despite the fact that he can't antagonize the protagonist, Rey. 7. Chewbacca is essentially rendered an entirely different character.
Hunter Flores
What are you on about, user?
Isaiah King
STOP YOU FUCKING FAGGOT I WANT TO STRANGLE YOU WITH MY BAREHANDS.
Thomas Robinson
How old are you, what's your favorite movie.
Jonathan Gutierrez
Flying planes into skyscrapers in the year 2001 makes construction of skyscrapers irrational. How come nobody thought to do that in a century of human flight?
Angel Evans
The whole Holdo plan is to escape in small unarmored shuttles that the First Order supposdely won't notice because "they are focused on the flagship".
But you can notice these unarmored shuttles just by looking through the window. Though the First Order needs a hacker to tell them to look through the window. I guess "looking through the window" is now a a big thing that nobody does in the Star War universe.
Then when the First Order finally sees these unarmored shuttles, it takes them forerever to shoot them though they have the fire power of 10 Star Destroyers.
Alexander Watson
One day over 18 and Star Wars The Last Jedi!
Oliver Carter
Chill my man I love Henson too, the puppet in this movie we're awesome, not saying they were better just that they were reminiscent because they were. I wouldn't be surprised if they used Henson as inspiration. Some things like the nun caretakes felt like something straight out of dark crystal. Why are you so angry?
Jason Brown
A very large amount of screen time is given to 2 of the most unlikable characters ever birthed in the franchise. Finn and the chubby chink girl. They go on a huge trip to the casino world and nothing happens, their characters achieve nothing important to the story and yet we are forced to endure their unattractive faces for a huge amount of the movie. And it's not racism to say they are unattractive, they could have found a good looking black dude and a good looking asian girl, but they didn't.
Cameron Martinez
Are you genuinely retarded, or just baiting?
Ryder Turner
Luke is low test
Joseph Young
Unless a Rey convinces Supreme Leader Kylo Ren to not be evil, and he lives and makes up for his evil deeds. We haven't seen that.
Leo Murphy
Op asks for substantive critique of the films structure and thematic content. Asks for no nitpicks.
Thread is nothing but crying nerds citing nitpicks they read on Reddit.
John Moore
...
Nathaniel Russell
Even disregarding that "nitpick" is a nonsensical term, aren'tthere plenty of people talking about Luke's character ITT? The major thematic problem of the movie?
Sounds like you just didn't read the thread lad.
Gavin Brooks
yea what movie did you watch...really wondering how old you are and how attentive you are in a fucking MOVIE THEATER...i'm hoping you pirated this (then you can say you didn't shell out any money to Disney amirite?) and you were on twitter and FB the entire time you were watching the movie otherwise you're just fucking dense and I'm beginning to think the torrent of hate this film received online is mostly from people with your comprehension or attention span...damn
Daniel Turner
How come nobody had done that before? Or after? Plot hole.
Jayden Collins
Because the puppets were so fucking bad I wish they used CGI
Jackson Clark
So you're retarded then.
Logan Foster
I know this is beyond your ability to understand but the point of the plotline IS the failure. A big theme of the movie is failure and what you do with it, do you build or regress. They go on the traditional Scrappy underdogs mission with zero chance of success which is in like every other major movie not to mention every star wars movie. And for the first time in the entire series they fail. It's great, and refreshing, and well written. Also you sound really racist.
Aiden Wood
>Name me some honest negative critiques about this movie that are not minor nitpicky shit and are actual big plot relevant issues 1/3 of the film, the canto bight plot, is fucking boring, and adds nothing to the plot.
Xavier Evans
Dumbest person in the thread
Alexander Baker
Your gripe was, "how come nobody ever did that before?" There are a lot of things nobody has done. Until somebody does it.
Nicholas Flores
The critiques of Luke character are that he changed from who he was at the end of rotj. Like ok... So? Thats kind of what happens to people over the course of multiple decades and personal tragedies. They chsnge. That's kind of the whole point that he changed. that's what makes the movie interesting. Luke as a bitter old man punishing himself for his greatest failure is much more interesting to me than what these people seem to have wanted which as far as I can tell was a chipper unchanged Luke who would have badass fights. Also his thread is like 95 percent nitpicks, I don't know what else to call these critiques. They have no substance they are just minor quibbles with the scientific accuracy of this magic space samurai series. Idk what to say.
Jeremiah Ortiz
No. There is another. (You)
Jeremiah Nguyen
I get that, I was being hyperbolic. I just can't really blame Poe for it in the context provided. Everyone else comes across as being completely inept so I'm siding with the one person who might be able to achieve something.
Kevin Jenkins
How about how Phasma got fucked over again. SW's first on-screen female villain and Kike Kike Abrams literally threw her in the trash. Un-fucking-acceptble. Gwen is a precious cinnamon roll and her design is awesome. She deserved better. Phasma should have been a female equivalent of Darth Vader: an utterly badass character that makes everyone shit themselves by her mere presence. They HAD ONE CHANCE to fix it by having her kill Finn and they fucked it up by FUCKING KILLING HER AGAIN. FUCK THAT. It's inexcusable.
Now my OTP can't happen either.
Christian Johnson
That wasn't the critique. So you're actually so retarded you're completely illiterate.
Cooper Evans
Shit thats the theme of this whole movie: hinting at changes or choices, then immediately nullifying them.
Jacob Moore
It's essential to the theme of failure, it's essential to setting up the empire discovering the fleeing rebel ships, it sets up the idea of moral ambiguity through benicios character, it set up the children who are used in the beautiful coda at the end of the film which is basically an encapsulation of what we all did as unjaded children, pretending to have a lightsaber and looking up at the stars. Also I thought it was well paced and had a lot of memorable moments. I also think benicios performance was super fun and one of my favorite in a movie full of great performances.
Gavin Hill
>WHY IS HAN STILL A SMUGGLER 30 YEAES LATER? PEOPLE CHANGE! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! >WHY ISN'T LUKE ACTING THE SAME? IT'S ONLY 30 YEARS LATER! PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE THAT MUCH! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Aiden Green
WTF? This is literally Phantom Menace alien-farting-in-Jar-Jar's-face tier.
Zachary Smith
nah, that was much sexier
rian can't inspire fetishes the way lucas did. bring back lucas
Jacob Cox
>Like ok... So?
The "So?" has been explained many times. I encourage you to read the importance of Luke as a character and how he basically did not appear in this film. It's in this thread, others on TLJ before it, and I'm sure will pop up in every thread about it into the New Year. You'll have plenty of opportunities. This seems like someone asking, "People keep telling me that I shouldn't eat my own shit. Like ok... So?" The explanation on why you shouldn't eat your own shit is almost unnecessary but if you truly need it then there's vast information out there for you, so much that asking the question makes you look retarded.
Jack Perez
Because Solo wasn't a smuggler at the end of the OT. It makes about as much sense as making episode IX with Luke being a farmboy wishing to join the Imperial academy.
Christopher Baker
Yeah it's almost like characters regressing from their previously established positions instead of progressing further down the paths they were on is shitty writing and nothing but an incompetent execution of someone's bad fanfiction.
Nolan Hernandez
I understand that you and others had their expectations challenged and we're unable to accept it. Luke Skywalker as a character becomes more interesting and complex then he ever was in the first three films. So you are basically saying that you didn't want him to change at all? The movie would've been great if it had just given in to nerd expectations? Sorry but I disagree.
Wyatt Ward
>Almost all the complaints I read about it are minor nerdy shit that most people don't see as an issue
Rose/Finn is useless cringy, enough said
How the fuck is turning your villains into inept comedic relief at the first five seconds, and throwing away all tension by showing a single tie fighter can hold it's own against that huge huge a minor nitpick? It completely takes away all the tension in this TICKING CLOCK story.
Next the pacing is awful , you never actually feel like it's some kind of race against the clock or a chase.
Every single plot point in this movie is contrived as fuck. Conflicts emerging from people just not communicating in a simple way.Fuck the entire trilogy is now based on contrived coincidence where Kylo just woke up at the wrong time and Luke couldn't explain the situation to him. People actually think this is good writing.
Blunt beat you over the head political messages and social commentary.
Luke's complete character assassination.
Rian once said he doesn't care about worldbuilding or logic as long as the characters get development. And oh it shows. But not only did his movie not make sense ,the entire Star Wars universe doesn't make sense. It's not just hyperspeed ramming either, he reduced the galaxy to a small sized country, where it can be controlled with dozens of ships, and the rebellion will grow from 30 people.
Jose Powell
It's a lot like real life.
Nathaniel Kelly
All of this could be set-up without the pointless, and boring action scene, cringy bitching about the capitalism and pathetic comedy scenes. The only thing of consequence that happens is meeting Del Toro which could've been done in a much better way.
Eli Davis
Oh there's a theme of failure alright
Austin Clark
the dornish were supposed to be moors
Easton Sullivan
Name 15 (fifteen) people that did that or your argument is invalid.
Dylan Lewis
Why would he go there? He wants to be alone and die.. why would he do somewhere that obvious? It's fucking retarded and you know it
Hunter Jenkins
Oh right I forgot that people only ever make forward progress. They never make mistakes. They never do things they regret. They never lose optimism as they grow older. What fucking planet do you live on? Have you ever read or watched something that wasn't made for five year olds? Broken characters aren't exactly a new things dude.
Easton Miller
>I understand that you and others had their expectations challenged and we're unable to accept it. Strawman.
> Luke Skywalker as a character becomes more interesting and complex then he ever was in the first three films Nope, he simply regressed to a previous state instead of growing further as a character. Same as Han. Incompetent writing, no depth, nothing beyond shallow irreverence to fake the illusion of significance for teenagers who process tarnish as polish.
>So you are basically saying that you didn't want him to change at all? Strawman.
>The movie would've been great if it had just given in to nerd expectations? Strawman.
>Sorry but I disagree. Yes and that's why you are retarded.
You're not very good at this baiting thing. You made it too obvious. You've run out your (You)s from me now.
Colton Harris
Name 15 (fifteen) world-famous heroes that got completely broken over 1 (one) mistake and became hermits or your argument is invalid.
Ayden Rivera
Prove it, faggit,
Logan Hill
Yeah there is actually. And it pretty daring for the biggest film of the year to tackle what it means to fail in such a daring way.
Blake Fisher
>Oh right I forgot that people only ever make forward progress Strawman.
>They never make mistakes. Strawman.
>They never do things they regret. Stra- Oh wait, you're the same retard as here making the same retarded non-points and strawmanning. The transparency of your bait is so obvious that it's clear from post to post. Okay really last (You) now since you just proved you've got nothing but non-arguments and making up false statements for the person you're "responding" to. You might get a few other people with this though.
Ryder Flores
>WHY DIDN'T MY COMMANDING OFFICER TELL ME HER PLAN? ITS NOT LIKE I DISOBEYED MY PREVIOUS COMMANDING OFFICER 5 MINUTES AGO AND GOT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE KILLED! ITS NOT LIKE I WOULD EVER WITHHOLD KNOWLEDGE OF A SIDE MISSION OR ATTEMPT MUTINY! I'M BADASS! I NEED TO KNOW, I DON'T NEED TO FOLLOW ORDERS! ITS NOT LIKE THIS IS THE MILITARY! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Jacob Jenkins
I can name dozens, but you don't know them. And it wouldn't be very nice.
Adam Hill
He called it the most unfindable place in the galaxy. Apparently he believed nobody would find it. Jedi hubris, man.
Chase Lee
>One character's pointless and borderline retarded actions are excused because other characters in the movie are also borderline retarded
Also it's not like only Poe was out of the loop. Everyone but 4 people thought they were going to their deaths. She should tell her to people not to avoid him rebelling in order to save everyone. She should make her plan known so that some desperate fucks won't just take over ships and surrender to the First Order in a hope of avoiding getting killed.
Colton Baker
>Almost all the complaints I read about it are minor nerdy shit that most people don't see as an issue
When amount of "minor nerdy shit" reaches TLJ levels - when everything is blatantly a plot device that works or does not work whenever it is needed for a plot, like shields on Raddus - people do.
But in any case:
>All the remaining good guys are women and pocs >All the remaining bad guys are white males >Dude is general hugs there? Yo momma lmao >Veganism >Capitalism is evil but please buy a porg plushie! >Force Skype, force exhaustion >Rey's force powers now exceed Yoda upon day 4 of the force 'awakening' in her. >If you kill your enemies they win >Let go of the past but do you remember these original trilogy scenes we just copypasted >Hans death doesn't even get properly addressed, not to mention a funeral >One of the most iconic hero's in American cinema reduced to a turtle suckling nephew murdering sulk. B-but deconstruction! >Fuck internal consistency, turn physics on and off for plot purposes >Remember when middle acts were not supposed to be so irrelevant that you could not remove them without any consequence to the plot? Well, makers of this movie don't.
Jace Myers
Why does he leave the final piece of the map with R2 then? Not that that wasn't retarded in itself, being as you only really needed the last part of the map anyway, because who gives a shit about all the planets along the way before hand when R2 is going to reveal the final planet for....reasons. another of the many abandoned plot points from TFA
Joshua Evans
>I can name dozens
No, you can't. Your argument is now considered invalid, please remove your post (and this topic if possible).
Jose Hughes
>replying
Michael Green
Mark Hamill, pre-TFA. Played Luke Skywalker, wasn't in any movies anyone saw for 32 fucking years.
Caleb Young
This reads like someone who didn't grow up with these characters...is probably 21, max, and has seen the original trilogy less than 3 times.
John Powell
This is a new shill tactic we all should be aware of. Anybody who has been in this board in the last few weeks knows that the reason this movie is hated and has become a meme is because how fucking terrible it is, and I literally can't recall anyone even mentioning the also godawful EU, so the OP is clearly wrong. What's going on? Is it bait funposting?
No.
It's a death by exhaustion tactic. They make a thread like this minimizing the legit criticisms (incoherent main plot, inconsistent world building, zero characterization, character assasination of Luke, abysmal quips, embarrassing scenes, filler subplots, abysmal acting with a few exceptions, deus ex machina climax) and strawmanning really hard, and they get BTFO just like in this thread. But then they make it again, and it's up to us to explain AGAIN why this movie is not better than the prequels. And in a few hours they'll make it again, and again, and again. Until one day we won't reply to it and then they'll won. The shills will go to their clickbait senior shills, Jezebel and the like, and explain in great detail how "haters don't know what they hate about the movie, so it must be because of the SJWs or the EU" or whatever strawman narrative Disney has told them to push.
Austin Gutierrez
Joke's on them, I can just copy and paste everything wrong with this shitty movie every single time too.