People only dislike the new season because it didn't stay gloomy and edgy. Not everything has to be Logan

People only dislike the new season because it didn't stay gloomy and edgy. Not everything has to be Logan.

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yes user, we heard you the first time in the other thread.

transitioning from gloomy and edgy to more of a somber zen note would have been much better
instead there's a tonal whiplash

>People only dislike the new season because of Ashi becoming a main character and taking screentime away from Jack, Aku, and the Scotsman, and making Jack's emotional high based off of cliche romance rather than self-realization and personal growth
FTFY

To be fair the latter would have been cliche as well.

It's Samurai Jack. Of course it's cliche.

But this way is trading the cliche it usually follows for a shallow romance.

I've gotta say I haven't watched most of S5 yet, I'm getting to that tonight but having watched the original having it end on "jack gets a love interest" is... Probably not what I would have done.

It's Genndy's show, but I don't think "Jack falls in love with a waifu" is what most people expected or wanted. I think what most people wanted was pure fanservice revisiting some plot threads with a lot more unrestrained violence, but genndy wanna do what genndy wanna do.

I've seen people legitimately criticizing Genndy retaining humor because of "muh mature".

Like, holy shit, literally best part about this season is Scaramouche and his antics.

>people hate ashi because they completely miss the point of her character because she's a woman which nowadays means "female characters = muh SJWs"

FTFY

ashi is proof that tumblr really traumatized this board

if she was introduced in the orginal run you wouldn't be bitching

that said the romance felt cheesy but i think that's a combination of what they were going for

i forgot to add the last part...

it was a combination of what they were going for and not having enough episodes

>We should've devoted more screen time to a ghost, the villain in a coma of depression, and a one dimensional protagonist

What did he mean by this?

Or we could have a show where the fans are shaped around the show and not their other way around...

...like, I don't know, a good show?

I think people expected a really left-handed ending because the main series was so gloomy and dark, but like Berserk it's really a story about hope, and isn't ultimately a celebration of edgy shit.

This desu

And by the way Jack still has a lot of focus and screen time In this season as he does with every other. Also remember princess Mira and the bounty Hunters, seasons of death and episodes like that. It's still telling Jacks story without actually giving him too much face on screen.

(You)

I love Samurai Jack

I just don't like The Ashi Show: with special guest star Samuai Jack

>People dislike that Jack is developing as a character in a new direction and doing something about being lonely instead of remaining stagnant.

Jack has grown as a character and you do not like it.

This season was very Zen, Jack got the sword back in one of the most Zen internalizations I've seen out of a cartoon.

Jack started the season as a hopeless self-hating suicidal man who had no affection for his work or the people he saved. He is no longer suited as a warrior of hope. Each episode has Jack acknowledge, resist and move on from the dark and isolated emotions inside of him so that he can become a person capable of creating and defending life once again.

I don't why people think this series is supposed to be subversive when the main character is gifted a holy blade by the gods that can only hurt evil things.

I won't deny that that might be the case with a lot of people, there are more than just a few legitimate flaws that can drive people away from it. Now, instigate as much hate as it has in some other people? Fuck no, those are just autists who like being angry and cynical because it makes them feel more intelligent.

haha nice post good sir

This

The fact that all Sup Forums does in face of the shows legitimate flaws in straw man and attack those who talk about them is really sad

>you just hate her because she's a woman and you're an anti-sjw!!!
Considering my favorite cartoon has a female protagonist I don't take your argument seriously at all. Everything about Ashi is just bad. Her personality is incredibly lacking, her design is taken wholesale from Symbionic Titan, and she steals screentime from more interesting characters. She's not a believable character at all.

This is contradicted by Jack leaving Ashi by herself and resuming his lone wolf lifestyle.

> Her personality is incredibly lacking
Kind, understanding. Really protective of those she loves or remotely cares about. Curious, inquisitive. Determined, optimistic. Incredibly violent, when she fights she turns into a completely different person. Whether you liker her personality or not, you can't deny it's there.
>her design is taken wholesale from Symbionic Titan
Only the hair. Her eyes, complexion, facial features and clothing are completely different, and she changes the hair in episode 6.
>she steals screentime from more interesting characters
What is your definition of stealing screentime? Is that what you call when there's a scene focusing on any character you dislike?
>She's not a believable character at all
Care to elaborate?

Whether you hate Ashi or not, I think we can all agree on one thing:
This season needed more episodes.

He grows, becomes afraid of growing and tries to go back to simplicity. He finds out he can't, confronts what he's afraid of, expresses it and decides to stay with Ashi.
I don't see your point.

It could have used two more. I'm not gonna ask for 20 or even 15; 13 would have been good enough. It was the old format too; I wonder why they didn't allow that. Does it have something to do with Adult Swim? I'm not familiarized with that channel because where I live I don't get it.

When Season 5 got announced no one thought "wow can't wait to see Jack's new journey with his love interest"

True. I still liked the romance, though.

youtube.com/watch?v=B3mt9eBrcN8

Baldwin got way better at his Aku voice as the season progressed.

Either that or we just got used to him.

When you're reviving a show after a ten year absence and the kids that grew up on it have been like "WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF IT ENDED LIKE x" for years, I feel like a -bit- of fanservice is purely common sense. There's been da samoorai and Scotsman, though.

But it's edgy and gloomy as fuck

The first few episodes is as gloomy and edgy as the show has EVER been and now they put in a brief glimmer of hope and happiness for the expressed purpose of yanking it away.

Which, might I remind you, is the EXACT SAME THING that Logan did with that happy scene on the farm, followed up by everyone fucking dying.

It's entirely edgy and grim

Don't forget the Guardian. It was a bit cruel, but I loved seeing him referenced.

>Kind, understanding. Really protective of those she loves or remotely cares about. Curious, inquisitive. Determined, optimistic. Incredibly violent, when she fights she turns into a completely different person. Whether you liker her personality or not, you can't deny it's there.
A lot of this is just taken out of your ass though. This is not a human being. This is just a list of adjectives, some of which don't even apply to Ashi. You had to use synonyms to make this list longer than it actually is. The word naive encompasses her entire character. I never said she has no personality, she has one, it's just lacking.

>What is your definition of stealing screentime? Is that what you call when there's a scene focusing on any character you dislike?
Yes. Ashi is not the reason anyone watches this show. She appears more than Jack in episode 6.

>Care to elaborate?
How she changes from a naive killer sheltered her whole life to Jack's sidekick in the span of an of episode is not human. Just because she continued questioning does not mean she doesn't completely stop attempting to kill Jack, which was her only purpose in life.

>He finds out he can't, confronts what he's afraid of, expresses it and decides to stay with Ashi.
No, Ashi and Aku find him at the same time after he ditched Ashi. He never returned to "face his fears." If anything his fears came true, Jack was right the whole time and he could've slain Aku if Ashi hadn't come. This headcanon of yours is ridiculous.

Whenever Jack is alone everything turns grimier. Ashi brings new light into his life and accordingly, into the show. I'd bet my dick that that was the effect they were after.

>Ashi brings new light into his life and accordingly, into the show

They brought her and that light into that show for the sole reason of having her become corrupted and forcing Jack to kill her, it's frankly even MORE edgy than just killing her off normally.

I read a post calling samurai jack "subtle". Y'know the show with dog people and giant robots. The new series is basically the continuation of the old series, goofiness and all, but people don't remember jack dancing at a rave. I guess nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

I'm still waiting for "legitimate flaws" beyond
>icky girls
>Pacing in a 10 episode season
>My ending with the Scotsman would be better!
>Muh realism

>A lot of this is just taken out of your ass though. This is not a human being. This is just a list of adjectives, some of which don't even apply to Ashi. You had to use synonyms to make this list longer than it actually is. The word naive encompasses her entire character. I never said she has no personality, she has one, it's just lacking.
How would you describe Jack, then? Because I'm certain she is a reflection of Jack's persona.
>Yes. Ashi is not the reason anyone watches this show. She appears more than Jack in episode 6.
And? Jack didn't need to appear in episode 6 till the end; she was well used there. There have been episodes in the old series in which Jack barely had a role.
>How she changes from a naive killer sheltered her whole life to Jack's sidekick in the span of an of episode is not human. Just because she continued questioning does not mean she doesn't completely stop attempting to kill Jack, which was her only purpose in life.
Her only purpose in life was making the world a better place. The Cult raised her into thinking Aku was good and Jack was bad, and by having Jack around the world was in danger. Jack made it clear that he was not the evil one, Aku was. Then, all Ashi did was changing her target from Jack to Aku. She has no other plans beside killing Aku, unlike Jack who at least intended to go back to the past or return to the life he used to have. Ashi doesn't have anything other than Aku's death.
>No, Ashi and Aku find him at the same time after he ditched Ashi. He never returned to "face his fears." If anything his fears came true, Jack was right the whole time and he could've slain Aku if Ashi hadn't come.
Jack doesn't go back to confront his fears, his fears, in this case, losing Ashi, confront him when he has to explain why he left. The result is the same.
He could have slain Aku if Ashi hadn't come? Are you high? Aku was leaving the moment he saw the sword. Had Ashi not been there Aku would have fled; no fight at all.

No, the season is just getting bad.

It has no consistent theme anymore. It bounces from comedy, dark, romance, and callbacks each episode. It'd be one thing if these themes were present in all of the episodes (like the previous seasons), but they are not, and it feels clunky and you have to stop and adjust yourself each episode "Oh, it's a slow paced humor episode today" or "Oh, the whole episode was dedicated to references and throwbacks".

It feels rushed and one character exists solely for the foolish samurai dick and lacks any character.

>In the span of an episode

That doesn't mean it's a short time, user.

Or do you think they did all their traveling in a span of 10 minutes?

Plus, why the hell wouldn't Ashi drop her ties to the Cult at the first chance she got? Would she really have any emotional bond with the abuse she got?

>"Hmmmm this Samurai could be right, but screw it, can't wait to go home and get another ass whooping by Nanny Thiccens!"

>Ashi is not the reason anyone watches this show

This sentence was so autistic I laughed. Do you know what a supporting character is?

>inb4 "B-but it's the 'Ashi Show'!"
>Even though characters are asking "Where's Jack?" when he's not on screen

>>>why the hell wouldn't Ashi drop her ties to the Cult at the first chance she got?
>why the hell wouldn't Ashi drop her ties to her sisters and fall in love with the man who killed them in cold blood after being raised and conditioned to hate the enemy of their leader her entire life?

>>why the hell wouldn't Ashi drop her ties to her sisters and fall in love with the man who killed them in cold blood after being raised and conditioned to hate the enemy of their leader her entire life?

This shit again.
>death is failure

You're right, the show's actually perfect. Show those greentext strawmen to Sup Forums in your own thread and you can put the "Samurai Jack season 5 hasn't been the most perfect piece of animation ever conceived" meme to rest.

but...it did?

>How would you describe Jack, then? Because I'm certain she is a reflection of Jack's persona.
Jack is much more developed than Ashi, the fuck are you talking about? Just because he doesn't change in the original series doesn't mean he has the depth of a brick, developing our perspective of a character through new information, viewpoints, or past experiences is just as valid as having a character grow. Ashi has nothing on Jack in regards of character, especially considering how much Jack has changed from the original series to season 5.

>And? Jack didn't need to appear in episode 6 till the end; she was well used there. There have been episodes in the old series in which Jack barely had a role.
They were actually good though. The bounty hunters is infinitely better than episode 6 of season 5.

>Her only purpose in life was making the world a better place.
Headcanon nonsense. Her only purpose in life was to "KILL THE SAMURAI." You don't go from a life of brainwashing, physical and mental conditioning, and seclusion to a well rounded individual who can questioning everything they've ever known. They were taught that Jack was a liar and would try to fool them, that Aku was responsible for the beautiful scenery Ashi saw. And she just goes with Jack's word because?

>Jack doesn't go back to confront his fears, his fears, in this case, losing Ashi, confront him when he has to explain why he left. The result is the same.
The result is that Jack was completely correct for leaving Ashi behind, meaning you can't say "Jack developed and ended his loneliness."

>He could have slain Aku if Ashi hadn't come? Are you high? Aku was leaving the moment he saw the sword.
He was going to Aku's domain anyways. From Jack's perspective he had no reason to think Aku would come to him. He was a gnat's dick away from hitting Aku until he said time out.

But CN advertised it to be dark and gloomy, so some people are mad that they didn't get what was sold to them.

>Sisters that have been taught to mutually not give a shit about each other since birth
>"Hey why doesn't she give a shit about her sisters?!"
>She rightfully blames her mother for their deaths and awful lives
>"Hey why is she not mad at Jack? Why doesn't she care about her mother?"
>Shown solid evidence as to why Aku is evil from people who have absolutely no reason to lie to her
>"How could she turn her back on a Cult of people that abused her?!"

You're not the thinking type, are you user?

If you've been abused by your father since you were a kid, you wouldn't think "I sure love my dad! He must have a solid view of the world!"

Also Christianity is a religion taught from childhood, only without the abuse that could lead to resentment, and people drop that way easier.

>"Hey don't straw man me with green text!"
>Proceeds to straw man with green text
>Can't think of a real argument so just touts "infallible" logic like "W-well it's not perfect so there!"

Did you get enough oxygen as an infant, user?

You're the one strawmanning people who disagree that the show is bad. Look at you, the guy merely said the complaints are immature and you retreat into pretending he's saying the show is flawless. You actually had to put words in his mouth in order to react to him, isn't that a strawman?

It is dark and gloomy though. Jack has to take up the sword against the only woman he's ever loved, who has been made corrupt.

How is he more developed? You're saying he is because he's been around longer. The only major character change Jack experienced in the original series was that after putting down Mad Jack he became much harder to anger, and the fall into despair for season 5 was done off-screen, although I admit that it was hinted at in seasons 3 and 4. Don't get me wrong, I love Jack, but he isn't too complex. Ashi's development at least was done as we saw it.
>They were actually good though. The bounty hunters is infinitely better than episode 6 of season 5.
That's a more subjective matter. Episode 6 and Jack and the Bounty Hunters are very different episodes in every regard, the one thing they have in common is that Jack is absent during the majority of it.
>Headcanon nonsense. Her only purpose in life was to "KILL THE SAMURAI." You don't go from a life of brainwashing, physical and mental conditioning, and seclusion to a well rounded individual who can questioning everything they've ever known. They were taught that Jack was a liar and would try to fool them, that Aku was responsible for the beautiful scenery Ashi saw. And she just goes with Jack's word because?
"Bask in the glory of what out master has created. Admire its beauty. But know that the Samurai is out there leaving a wake of devastation wherever he goes"
The approach their mother took was that Jack was evil and needed to die for the sake of the world. If they had been raised to just kill Jack with no talks of good an evil, I'd concede your argument. But they did teach them what good and evil were and attributed them to the false people, Jack and Aku.
Also Ashi didn't believe Jack on his word. She demanded physical proof, and Jack spent the first half of the episode showing said proof. No to mention the people she met who told her of Jack's great deeds.
Cont.

Ashi doesn't actually see concrete proof that Aku is evil until episode 6. She stops attacking Jack at the end of episode 4. So what happened in between to make her quit her mission? Jack just says that Aku destroyed that forest. Jack just says that the beast is Aku's doing. There is no more reason to believe Jack than to believe her mother, and again, she was told that Jack would try lying to her.

Not that user but why is strawmanning only bad when a contractor of season 5 strawmans? This post is a complete strawman, not to mention it implies that there are no legitimate flaws that they're aware of.

Whether Jack was correct or not doesn't change the fact that he accepted Ashi into his life and trusted. Then Aku showed up. But he had decided to trust her either way.
>He was going to Aku's domain anyways. From Jack's perspective he had no reason to think Aku would come to him. He was a gnat's dick away from hitting Aku until he said time out.
And he wouldn't have said "time out" if he hadn't smelled Ashi. It was because of her that he stayed at all. I'll repeat myself just to make it clear; had Ashi not been there, Aku would have just left after blowing up Scaramouche's head. No big battle or confrontation. And Aku now would know Jack had the sword and he would move the castle around like he had done many times in the past.

The ladybug made Ashi reconsider after it helped her find a logical fallacy in her indoctrination.
Not only does she find the destroyed forest, she sees Aku's immigration policies in first person and later the factory with the children in which Dominator affirms that Jack can't ever hurt any innocents.

>Not everything has to be Logan
I agree: it's why like the new season well enough. I might vouch that it didn't quite end up as what they marketed to us, though- that promo image of Punished Jack wielding the katana comes to mind.
It's probably why people like the first three episodes so much- it was precisely what they were advertising and what was expected.

If I had to "fix" anything, I might just say that Jack design in his return to form could be merged with his "punished" version. That way we could kinda get that "King Jack" visual they teased in the original run and show that it's not quite the same Jack we saw from 15 years ago.
...but eh! I'm not a writer. And I'm enjoying what we're getting.

>Considering my favorite cartoon has a female protagonist I don't take your argument seriously at all.

that's cool i don't take yours seriously either.

>she steals screentime from more interesting characters

the original run of SJ was always more about the people he met/helped/fought/etc. than jack himself ashi is no different.

do you hate X9 or the princess & the bounty hunters or hell, even the scottsman for stealing the spotlight as well?

>How she changes from a naive killer sheltered her whole life to Jack's sidekick in the span of an of episode is not human. Just because she continued questioning does not mean she doesn't completely stop attempting to kill Jack, which was her only purpose in life.

so did you just not see the episodes where she sees everything aku has destroyed and all the people jack helped?

>You don't go from a life of brainwashing, physical and mental conditioning, and seclusion to a well rounded individual who can questioning everything they've ever known.

they showed it as early as 1st episode of the season that she was the most unsure of the bunch

Yes, point out something that no one is complaining about and ignore everything else to make your point.

I replied specifically to a poster who said it wasn't dark and gloomy like advertised.

Why aren't you responding to the person who replied to your post?

I hate shippers