The Last Jedi is the ESB of our time...

The Last Jedi is the ESB of our time. It has made the people who have spinned an intense head canon from TFA/ANH extremely upset the film didn't play into their expectations.

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IT DEFIED AND SUBVERTED EXPECTATIONS

BRAVO

Its just okay or above average.
>Bad Writing
>Great Performance
>Solid Cinematography
>On the technical side this movie's great
>Underwritten Characters
>Pacing is just blasted apart
>Boring Casino shit
>New main characters were pointless
>Rey and Kylo scenes are great
>Like what they did with Luke, people just pissed that he didn't destroy a Star Destroyer or was not immune to the dark side.

DUDE TYPING IN CAPS FOR LACK OF ARGUMENTS

BRAVO

kys disney shills

>expect a good movie
>it's incoherent shit
SUBVERTED

Take the object nearest to you and shove it up your ass. All of the real issues with TLJ have nothing to do with whether it subverted expectations or not. The film is bogged down by stupid, pointless, and ultimately meaningless sideplots (Canto Bight is from start to finish one of the worst parts of any Star Wars film), stupid new characters who add nothing (What the fuck was up with DJ? They just happen to find some random guy who can hack Snokes ship even though Maz said the other guy was the only guy? Also why did Holdo even need to exist? Leia was already on Poes ass for being too much of a hotshot, so why introduce a new character while Leia is in a coma just to have her teach the same lesson Leia would teach Poe if she weren’t in a coma?)

The death of Snoke and the revelation about Rey’s parents (true or not) were both cool moments that I actually enjoyed, but all of the plot twists in the world can’t make up for a terrible script and some truly lazy filmmaking.

How the hell is TLJ incoherent?

Actually, I did expect Luke to die, just not in such a way that seemed pointless and cowardly.

Seriously how was everything on Canto Bight so awful?
>dem shitty police costumes
>muh rich ppl are evil babbys first writing
>horrible alien designs
>horrible set design (it just looked like a European City with some extra lights... and don’t get me started on how fucking boring that jail was)
>muh “now it’s worth it”

Holy fuck what a cringefest.

This is a new shill tactic we all should be aware of. Anybody who has been in this board in the last few weeks knows that the reason this movie is hated and has become a meme is because how fucking terrible it is. We've been through all the arguments and the consensus was clear, TLJ doesn't work as a movie, much less as a part of an established franchise. What's going on? Is it bait funposting?

No.

It's a death by exhaustion tactic. They make a thread like this minimizing the legit criticisms (incoherent main plot, inconsistent world building, zero characterization, character assasination of Luke, abysmal quips, embarrassing scenes, filler subplots, abysmal acting with a few exceptions, deus ex machina climax) and strawmanning really hard, and they get BTFO just like in this thread. But then they make it again, and it's up to us to explain AGAIN why this movie is not better than the prequels. And in a few hours they'll make it again, and again, and again. Until one day we won't reply to it and then they'll won. The shills will go to their clickbait senior shills, Jezebel and the like, and explain in great detail how "haters don't know what they hate about the movie, so it must be because of the SJWs or the EU" or whatever strawman narrative Disney has told them to push.

>The Last Jedi is the ESB of our time
ESB was a good movie, though.

Just wipe those scenes from your memory. It can be like when Solo and Leia were on that asteroid thing that was actually a monster. It's the part you always fast forward.

This film is definitely better than the prequels though? All your complaints about bad acting and incoherent story comes short when you also think the prequels are better. I think TFA was garbage but TLJ isn't. Stop making up conspiracies in your head.

>turns out Luke was a hologram and never in any danger at all, just distracting Kylo by baiting his anger
Ok that’s pretty cool
>*luke suddenly dies anyway*
Wait what

What was the point of having him not really be there if he died all the same?

Astral projection kills the user. Kylo says it earlier in the film. And he chose not to appear in person because he's fucking invincible as a projection who can fuck with Kylo and ridicule him and the First Order in front of the resistance.

This. All of the MUH SUBVERSION is just a shill tactic to distract from the fact that it’s just a shitty film.

Or maybe some people just don't agree with you

This but it gets worse, you get 2 or 3 of these cocksuckers in a thread and you can actively see them sowing any criticism of nu-wars with misogyny or racism or shitting on mark hamill because he was upset they destroyed and mutilated his iconic role.
This galaxy is dead, hyperspeed ram it, then bury it

Prequels
>Horrid Acting
>CGI Abuse
>Jar Jar Binks
>Terrible Script
>Boring as fuck
>Just bad movies

Sequels
>Bad script
>Rehash
>Bad Pacing
>Terrible Humor/Jokes
>Just average movies

>with misogyny or racism or shitting on mark hamill
Fucking nobody does that but the ironic shitposters you mongrel

If they had deleted Canto Bight and replaced that scene instead with a flash back sequence of Luke struggling to protect Ben from the dark side, and failing, and blaming it on the inadequacy of the Jedi teachings to prevent such an event, to better establish Luke's loss of faith and the moral relativism theme of the movie (even more so its *attempted* theme than "muh diversity"), it really could have been great...

... rofl, they didn't do that though.

>>fast-forwarding the best Han/Leia scene

Or maybe it was just a really shitty, immoral way to send off a beloved iconic character that wasnt sucking the mouse's dick.

Not better than the prequels actually. The prequels were shit but they were building up a story all the way through (the rise of the Empire and the fall of Anakin). This movie is just random shit thrown to the wall. The space chase makes no sense, the Canto was a series of fortunate asspulls leading to NOTHING, Luke's character is assasinated hard (homicidal instincts over the off-chance of your nephew becoming evil and "destroying everything he loved" but doing nothing while his nephew ACTUALLY becomes evil and threatens everything he loves. This can't be defended by the way, so don't try it), Rey's character is still shit and Kylo is now emperor I guess? For no reason though? Was Snoke the emperor or what? Who are these new empire and rebellion guys? How does any of that makes any sense with the end of EP6?

The prequels were incompetently made movies telling a story, these new movies are overrated nonsensical big piles of nothing with a cool shot here and there

How was it immoral?

TLJ is the pleb filter for our time.

5 years from now everyone will be posting about how it was TRUE KINO

Not him. Actually it argued that subverting expectations alone does not make for a good movie. But that went over your head.

Never claimed it so. But people are indeed mad about the film not playing into their fan prejudices of Space Jesus Luke and their Rey Online Theories.

...

Or maybe because the movie is bad

t. pleb

then be just equally brief in your refutal

All the star wars movies are garbage when it comes to plot. They're simple storylines that require very little intelligence to follow. Let's not pretend that they're masterpieces.They're not.

The beauty of the originals, and even the prequels, is that they inspire imagination. George Lucas created a relatively blank canvas for childrens imaginations to run wild with.

The problem with the Disney movies is they're bland, fan service films, that offer very little thats new or fresh material. If anything they're limiting, because they make it seem like the star wars universe hasn't changed in 30 years. Add to that the fast pacing of the films, and the instantaneous space travel, it makes the universe seem tiny. They literally do the opposite of the originals, and become uninspiring/uncreative.

We're mad because it abandoned the fairy tale nature of the OT AND ruined its happy end. It made the OT be all in vain.

Proved you wrong with one still from ESB.

Nothing in TFA or TLJ has as much visceral shock and Freudian implications as this one scene. It's like something from a Kubrick film

retard

>The beauty of the originals, and even the prequels, is that they inspire imagination. George Lucas created a relatively blank canvas for childrens imaginations to run wild with.
That IS masterly. It is very difficult to execute without the protagonists enter Mary Sue-territory and audiences just rolling their eyes. Disney is just finding out how tight the rope is that they have have to walk.

>Prequels
>>Horrid Acting
>>CGI Abuse
>>Jar Jar Binks
>>Terrible Script
>>Boring as fuck
>>Just bad movies
>Implying that all of those also aren't also applicable to NuSW.

...

>And he chose not to appear in person because he's fucking invincible as a projection who can fuck with Kylo and ridicule him and the First Order in front of the resistance
But the nigger still died, how was he ridiculed at all? He could have shown himself in person and fuck kylo in the ass, which would also make for a far better end.

Fuck off. You can't play it off as subverting expectations if the twist of the story is that there is no twist and they succeeded in wasting nearly 3 hours of your time.

I would probably consider the terrible script part to the sequel trilogy the rest they did better.

Doesn't make the prequels better than the sequel trilogy

It was just a bad movie on every technical level, just get over it. Its just another live action Disney movie, non of them are ever made with artistic integrity or get more highly regarded over time

Nothing can erase the awful script, frenetic editing and poorly paced mess that resulted. Nothing can remove the over abundance of tension cutting D-tier attempts at humor.
Subversion of expectations is fine as long as you do something interesting with it, the movie never did. Thats why people say it feels pointless, because you are shown things on screen but nobody progresses as a character. It reminds me a Snyder movie, undeniably well shot and aesthetic but full of inconsistencies and half baked ideas that are really poorly executed.


Saying this is on par with ESB is pretty laughable. The fans actually liked that movie at the time despite subverting expectation and being notably tonally different.

I said not better or worse. I honestly can't say which ones are worse, it gets to a point where shit is just shit, you know?

Yes, thank you, we were already aware that everyone's expectations that Rey was someone important's daughter was fucking retarded. Again, that is a Lucas issue because the first two trilogies were about the same fucking nuclear family because in a galaxy of trillions, George could only think up a handful of interesting people who all happened to be BFFs and old college roommates.

It did defy my expectations. I expected a darker movie than The Force Awakens that expanded on the New Trilogy's lore and fleshed out Rey as a character. What I got was a lame chase movie with terrible jokes, lame sideplots, glaring logical inconsistencies, conflicting messages, and a Mary Sue protagonist with almost no hope for expansion or depth.

But hey, at least it subverted our expectations.

It has certainly subverted Disneys expectations of posting a massive profit

Don't bring BvS into this you fag. That film was great.

>The Last Jedi is the ESB of our time
Hahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahaaahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahahahaaaahahhahahahahhahahahhahaha

>spinned

"Spun" you retarded common core cunt.

>Rey was someone important's daughter was fucking retarded.
not as retarded as her being a nobody who can do things a master Jedi can do, because the force is now female.

...

It's a space fairy tale, dumbass.

>just buying the studio albums

Their profits will soon be more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

You would have to make the claim that without the Jedi, Anakin would have never learned to use the Force. He and Rey would at least have a ballpark similar midi-chlorian count by the rules of space fairy tale biology, since they're the same type of entity.

Also, Rey can use the Dark Side the way Palpatine did, only she does it for good, not evil. That's why the focus of the movies shifted from the Skywalker family to some rando junker bitch born unto literal whos. She hijacked the plot to become the good guy instead of being a shadow antagonist.

Kylo has arguably a larger impact on the story than Rey does.

>since they're the same type of entity.
but they are not the same type of entity

Anakin's father was the force and his mother was a nobody that died because the Jedi didn't give a shit about her.

Rey's parents are junkies that sold her for booze money.

Prequels
>Horrid Acting

If you mention acting at all, sequels are even worse on that front. Both lead characters literally do not act at all and are probably physically incapable of it.

>CGI Abuse

Pick related, you retard.

>Terrible Script

And sequels have a good script? Dude is general hugs there? Yo momma lmao.

>Boring as fuck
>Just bad movies

That's just your opinion, and we have already established that your opinion is worthless.

>Sequels

You've forgot:

>Porgs (if you found JarJar worth a mention they should be here as well).
>Derailing established characters to shit because of m-muh decontruction.
>Shit awful plot that is getting repeatedly rewritten on the fly, directors ignoring each other's input as much as possible.
>Lack of internal consistency, sometimes even within a single fucking scene.
>The main character is a Rey (poor ensign Mary Sue wouldn't dream of being a Rey).
>Designs of everything are highly derivative or unremarkable, at no point we see anything unusual.
>Distinct lack of good action scenes, if we subtract those that are literally worse versions of scenes from OT, we'll be left with about one per movie.

>Just average movies

No, they are awful.

You are taking a picture of TPM which was the only prequel that didn't have all-CGI backgrounds.

>Horrid acting
As bad as Daisy is, she doesn't come close to the sheer corniness of Obi-Wan and Anakin trying to force a friendship. Or Samuel L Jackson playing Samuel L Jackson Palpatine saved it.

>Terrible script
I actually don't think the prequels have terrible script. They're just not realized very well.

Also why do you pretend Porgs are so bad? Have you even watched the film? They are nothing but background birds with no impact on anything. Unlike Jar Jar who was obnoxious and in the center for so much of TPM.

The action in TFA was bad but TLJ had some of the best action in the whole series.

>You are taking a picture of TPM which was the only prequel that didn't have all-CGI backgrounds.

Wrong. Palpatine's office and chambers were real sets for instance. Dexter Jester's diner is a real set. Jango's quarters real set. Naboo's scenes are real sets shot on lake Cuomo in Italy and in Spain's Sevilla . And I'm forgetting a bunch. Stop spreading lies.

Pretty much. It amazes me how nobody here can think for themselves. It's all one hive mind. Soon as they hear other people saying TLJ was bad, they jump on board to be cool and feel their opinion is validated.

>TFA
>BEST SW MOVIE SINCE ESB
>Rogue One
>well TFA was bad but this is the BEST SW MOVIE SINCE ESB
>TLJ
>well Rogue one and TFA were bad but this is the BEST SW MOVIE SINCE ESB

>>TFA
>>BEST SW MOVIE SINCE ESB
Who the fuck even said this?

shills

Its just a bad movie mate, let it go and you can start the healing process like everybody else. I know right now you probably want to believe that it lived up to your own hype but there is nothing wrong to admit that you just got manipulated by marketing.

Its the same type of reaction to when TPM came out, everybody seemed to love it (including critics) but over time people came to realise that all the hype had clouded their judgement and that both objectively and as a Star Wars movie it was well under par.

it certainly defied the expectations of it not being a complete disaster

the difference is ESB is a good movie

TFA provided jack shit that was interesting. I spent no time thinking about it. On the contrary my only hope was that TLJ would do something that wasn't boring and stupid and guess what, it didn't.

Everyone that bought into the hype.
On Sup Forums itself about 90% of the threads were hailing it as a return to the OT.
I distinctly remember this.

>You are taking a picture of TPM which was the only prequel that didn't have all-CGI backgrounds.

Kek.

>As bad as Daisy is, she doesn't come close to the sheer corniness of Obi-Wan and Anakin trying to force a friendship.

Daisy is an absolute nothing, who opens her mouth and makes her eyes bulge whenever a scene indicates that maybe she should do some of that acting stuff, so she couldn't come to close anything if she wanted.

Dialogue in Star Wars, in case you haven't even watched OT and are just repeating common meme points, was always supposed to be corny and over the top. One of the particular charms of OT was actors speaking corny overblown lines with total sincerity. PT in large part misses that charm, except when Ian McDiarmid appears on the screen. ST did not even try. Instead it has shitty attempts of humor that do not really fit characters or the mood mixed with dramatic posturing that makes Vader seem subdued.

>The action in TFA was bad but TLJ had some of the best action in the whole series.

The only good action scene in TLJ was the opening assault on the dreadnought and even that was marred by tone-deaf jokes.

What else do you consider good? Kylo Ren's "wait, I guess my cheat mode had a time limit" raid was barely a fight, was punctuated by a tone-deaf joke, ended in one of the mocked scenes of the franchise.

The lobster guard fight made into reality the common meme of prequel haters about fights having no emotional content whatsoever. Also featured some pretty poor choreography.

The Phasma fight may have been good, had it included more of an actual fight, and not included the second villain in ten minutes going down to a cheap shot.

The final battle consisted of the worse version of Death Star II corridor chase and retelling of the Battle of Hoth that forgot to include an actual battle.

Disney will fail. The tighter they close their shilling fists, more and more people will slip away

The Last Jedi is the ESB of our time

The world's crazy

>horrid acting
Samuel L Jackson? Hayden Christensen? Both good actors, but their performances are horrible in the prequels, not to mention the rest of the cast. I think the only good performance was Ewan Macgregor.
>CGI abuse
you're comparing an indoor scene to an outdoor scene. Compare ANYTHING from Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith to places such as Jakku, the exterior of the Star Killer, the Island Luke has exiled himself to, the weird salt planet. Mostly shot on location.
>terrible script
"oh no, jokes!"
The original trilogy and prequels are just as guilty. Star Wars has never been serious.

And yes, the prequels are boring. Try and watch Attack of the Clones without getting bored and leaving even a quarter way through.

And now we get to the shittiest part of you opinion.
>porgs
They're on screen for a few seconds at a time. Jar Jar is a main character in Phantom Menace, and a supporting character in Attack of the Clones. Luckily he didn't say anything in Revenge of the Sith. You can't seriously say that you enjoyed "MEESA LIKES ANIIIII" and "WEESA FREEEEEEE!!!!"
>directors ignoring each others input as much as possible
Name one (1) time that Rian Johnson retconned something Jew Jew Abrams did in Force Awakens.
>lack of consistency
again, name me one time that happens.
>m-muh mary sue
She's literally luke in the original trilogy with tits, yet you don't complain about him
>at no point do we see anything unusual
Maz's club in Force Awakens?
>Distinct lack of good action scenes
When Poe and Finn escape from the first order. When Rey and Finn fight Kylo. The whole opening of the Last Jedi. Kylo and Rey fighting Snoke and his guards. When Holdo lightspeeds into the First Order (the most Kino moment in the entire Star Wars saga). The Speeder scene on the salt planet. Kylo vs Luke.
There. All the best action scenes in the Sequel trilogy. Compared to the Prequels that has Obi Wan vs Anakin at the end of Revenge, and that's about it.

This. It's no match for our autism though.

It's worse than the prequels user. It's actually worse.

Think about the pacing and editing and characterization. It's so bad it's baffling.

I can actually sit through the prequels now.

A bald assertion isn't an argument. I've already refuted your representation based arguments. Give me something else.

Attack of the Clones is my favorite prequel, but the choreography is better in TLJ by far. TLJ probably has the best fighting choreography. The scene were Luke has his show down is fucking epic even though he didn't have a laser sword fight. I think you are just butt hurt you didn't get a lightsaber duel.

Fucking this Man

He dodges Ben twice in an admittedly cool maneuver and that's it.
Rey and Ben vs the guards was fine, but also a bit of a mess visually with 10 people all fighting each other.
The first shot of that scene has literally 8 people on camera all fighting with laser swords and laser kunai.

>Muh rich people are monsters
\But they are user

Please fuck off and take your ass backward opionions with you. The TLJ was a massive disaster. Try and Spin it anyway you want, lord knows vanity fair and other media shills will try hard and fail.
That choreography was garbage as well as your opinion

I expected a good movie.

Expectations Status: Subverted.

This scene is a masterpiece
Princess Disney

>Prequels
>>Horrid Acting
Only Anakin was bad, Obi wan, Doku, Sheev and all the others did a solid job.

>>CGI Abuse
They used way more puppets/actors than what people give them credit for. For example they built the robots and only used CGI to animate them.

>>Jar Jar Binks
Wasn't a bad character, he was made as a comedy character for children.

>>Terrible Script
In which way?

>>Boring as fuck
It was immensely fun and interesting, from the massive battle set-pieces to the

>>Just bad movies
You didn't provide any argument of your point.

It has nothing to do with him dodging Ben for me. It was more about the music and visuals and the dialogue that makes the show down scene epic. A confrontation with emotion is better than a million sword fights. Yes the guard fight was cool. Quick and lethal fighting.

You can spin it any way you want and say how bad the film is to you, doesn't change the fact that It's a good movie to me and others.

Reminder that it's perfectly fine to enjoy bad movies.

Lets just move on and accept that as small fraction of Sup Forums liked all the space boom booms and female power fantasy where others didnt

dubs of truth

Ah yes, Attack of the Clones. What a masterpiece

youtube.com/watch?v=cK5zMDVGF2Y

If you want to like TLJ, all you have to do is watch the prequels and realize how awful the films have aged once the awe of the CGI has passed.

Oh, you think this is what's gonna happen now?

NOPE! Subverted your expectations! This is actually what's gonna happen...

GOTCHA! Subverted again! What happened is what you were thinking in the first place all along!

It's not a bad film if you liked it.

I agree, some OUT OF TOUCH fans can't handle a FUN, INTELLECTUAL little film. Good thing the critics are ready to PISS their expectations #subvertty

The dialogue is nothing.
>I'm sure you are!
>See you 'round kid

I can't even remember one song from the film let alone that scene.
I can picture Maul and Vader's last fight in my mind with the sound and all. Last Jedi was blaring the entire time.

The Aldnoah Zero of Star Wars movies.

>I can picture Maul and Vader's last fight in my mind with the sound and all
Maybe because when you watched it you were 9 years old impressed by the slightest hint of a light saber? Maybe 20 years later you're not as easily impressed by film now as then? A lot of people think the showdown in Snoke's throne room and Luke going aginst Kylo are series highlights now.

Okay, I'll hold.

Head canon > No canon

I liked it, but it has a lot of problems

This here is a better scene.
youtube.com/watch?v=lsAEdblcqU4

There's actual pace to the fight, musical queues.
Tension with the fields, a shift in the fight due to the saber breaking, it's face paced, differing shots.

Luke and Kylo don't actually fight. The gaurds were okay.

>There's actual pace to the fight,

All it is is FAST FAST FAST GOTTA GO FAST sterile dance battling besides the brief break when the laser gates go up

In the OT and ST the tempo of the fights changes based on what's going on and what effect theyre trying to put on the audience